Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-08-23 02:01, RunRevPlanet wrote:

Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the 
handler
list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many 
handlers
there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers 
I am

working on have names widely separated in the alphabet.


I want to see a filter search box added to the script editor's handler 
list for exactly that reason!


   Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Engine Development Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Ali Lloyd]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:35 AM Mark Wieder  wrote:

>
> The IDE has way too
> many hooks that need to be trapped in a frontscript in order to use a
>  editor from the built-in one. And it's gotten worse, not
> better, with LC 7/8.
>

It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is
identical to the 6 IDE except for branding.

I was rather hoping that the IDE would evolve to a
> plugin framework that would allow you to swap individual elements, but
> it's probably wishful thinking on my part.
>

This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE.

>
> Architecturally a lot has changed too. Individual elements of the IDE now
> react to internal messages for which they have registered through a central
> IDE library. This will eventually make elements of the IDE much more
> pluggable, and also improve IDE performance.
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Re: What is this - is anyone making money?

[Todd Fabacher]

>So the crux comes down to this. IMO your ability to make money with LC has
>nothing to do with the language and everything to do with your business
>acumen, which Richard and Todd have already pointed out will take a lot of
>skill, effort and time. In this regard Gladwell is probably correct, it
>wont matter what business it is, or what tools you are using, it's going to
>take YOU the same 1 whatevers to master the business.

Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money,
+profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I
got things like this:
http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7

What do you think about starting a community driven initiative named
"Making Money with LiveCode", it will complement the "Create It with
LiveCode" class? But it will be community driven and mentor people who are
just starting out. There are benefits because if you do contract work there
will be more takers, more possibilities of customers for the new widgets
and if you are an investor like me who is always looking for possibilities
- this is perfect.

The point is to make the LiveCode pie bigger and more profitable for all. I
am a HUGE fan of open source, but I am also a fan of HUGE profits. There
can be both.

--Todd
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Re: What is this - is anyone making money?

[Colin Holgate]

Small Google tip: although -something still works, +something doesn’t. Now you 
put the word or phrase in quotes.


> On Aug 23, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Todd Fabacher  wrote:
> 
> 
> Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money,
> +profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I
> got things like this:
> http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 
> 
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Re: What is this - is anyone making money?

[Peter M. Brigham]

On Aug 22, 2015, at 9:32 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> Richard wrote:
> 
>> To be good at anything is a function of time spent practicing.  Malcolm
>> Gladwell estimates that the time needed to truly master just about anything
>> is roughly 10,000 hours.  So at 5,000 hours one can expect to at least be
>> very good, and at 1,000 hours far better off than not having spent the time
>> studying the task at all.
>> 
> 
> Todd wrote:
> 
>> The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie in a bottle and
>> grant you three profitable apps.
>> 
>> Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion.
>> 
>> Many do indeed purchase LiveCode like they do language software and thing
>> the will learn to speak French simply by osmosis.
>> 
> 
> So therein lies the real question. Basically everyone here, and certainly
> Apple/MetaCard/RunRev and now LC all claim that xTalk and their IDE of the
> day helped to make you productive faster. So does Gladwell's estimate of
> 1hrs apply or is there something magic within LC that gets you to your
> goal faster? Personally I think there is a bit of magic.
> 
> Firstly, let's take the 1hrs. If that is correct it suggests that
> whether I choose Java or LC it's going to take the same time for me to
> master either. I don't buy that. If it were true, then it doesn't bode well
> for LC, because what it's saying is, pick your language wisely because
> either way it's going to take the same effort to master so it will be other
> factors, like how many open source projects are out there that use the
> language, what is the size of the community that use it, how many major
> companies already use software written in the language, how well respected
> is the language in the community at large, etc, etc which should determine
> you choice of language.
> 
> IMO, some people can learn French through osmosis, but I'm certainly not
> one of them. On the other side of the coin, for myself and I know for
> others, there is something about the xtalk language that just clicked with
> me. I've tried C, C++, Objective C, Java, Javascript, Applescript some
> Basic and probably one or two others that failed to take hold. To be
> brutally honest, the language I'd like to learn the most is Java, there are
> a bunch of OSS projects out there that are written in Java that I would
> just love to participate in, but the language doesn't work for me like LC
> does. Is it because I've been spoilt with HC/LC, it's so easy to create a
> quick and dirty app yet in other languages you just seem to get dirty and
> stay that way for ages. Are we back at Gladwell's 1 hrs? Is there a
> difference at 100 hrs and 1000 hrs with Java/C/Pick a language vs LC that
> gives you a false impression but at the end of the day you still need 1
> hrs. Again, I don't think so.
> 
> The way I see it Gladwell shouldn't have used hours, it should have been a
> unit applicable to the profession, and the thought that 1 applies to
> everyone is just ridiculous - there has to be a bit of magic, a gift, an
> inherent talent as well. You can't turn a 300lb professional footballer
> into a ballet dancer and you can't turn someone with spacial awareness
> problems into a trapeze artist.
> 
> Give a builder an electric hammer, and electric saw and an electric screw
> driver will he become a master builder faster than the guy with the manual
> tools. Yes, because it isn't 1 hrs it's 1 nails, or it's 10 houses.
> Becoming a master builder isn't about how well you draw a saw blade across
> a piece of lumber, it's is the cut perpendicular; it isn't about how well
> you swing a hammer, it's is the nail driven straight; it isn't about how
> well you twist a screw driver, it's is the screw driven home with the right
> amount of torque. If modern tools give you a perpendicular cut, nails
> driven straight, and screws torqued to perfection then why waste time?
> 
> For programming, if the syntax for C or Pascal or Assembly language is much
> or a muchness to you, then you are gifted, maybe LC doesn't offer you much
> at all; but if LC clicked with your brain then a genie has just handed you
> an electric hammer, an electric saw and an electric screw driver. Next,
> it's 1 lines of productive code, not hours that will make the
> difference. And I think everyone here knows that overall LC gets things
> done in less lines of code than other languages. Also, for good or bad, we
> tend to spend less time writing lines and lines of comments as the code in
> many instances is self explanatory.
> 
> So the crux comes down to this. IMO your ability to make money with LC has
> nothing to do with the language and everything to do with your business
> acumen, which Richard and Todd have already pointed out will take a lot of
> skill, effort and time. In this regard Gladwell is probably correct, it
> wont matter what business it is, or what tools you are using, it's going to
> take YOU the same 1 whatevers to mas

Re: Determine context

[Peter M. Brigham]

I think you could put getprop and setprop handlers into a frontscript that do 
this

on setprop whatever
   put line 1 of the executioncontexts into tOrigin
   if tOrigin begins with "card" then pass whatever
end whatever

...etc. This is not tested, but fooling around with the executioncontexts 
should get you there. You also might have to make use of "the target", which 
will give you the name of the object whose property is being set.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Aug 23, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Mike Bonner wrote:

> Quick question, hopefully with an easy answer..
> 
> I have some objects with settable properties. I only want them to be
> settable from scripts in specific objects.  In this case, I want the card
> script to be able to set object properties, but don't want the scripts in
> the objects themselves to be able to do so, or for these objects to be able
> to set their siblings properties. (so basically, limited to the card script)
> 
> Reading the property is fine, but reading sibling properties is not, so the
> card script should be able to set and see all properties.  An object should
> only be able to see itself.
> 
> Is this possible?
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Re: Determine context

[Mike Bonner]

Ah k, Thank you, i'll poke around with that.  The target won't do what I
need since I'm looking for (usng your word) the origin.

Off to poke around the executioncontexts

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Peter M. Brigham  wrote:

> I think you could put getprop and setprop handlers into a frontscript that
> do this
>
> on setprop whatever
>put line 1 of the executioncontexts into tOrigin
>if tOrigin begins with "card" then pass whatever
> end whatever
>
> ...etc. This is not tested, but fooling around with the executioncontexts
> should get you there. You also might have to make use of "the target",
> which will give you the name of the object whose property is being set.
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Mike Bonner wrote:
>
> > Quick question, hopefully with an easy answer..
> >
> > I have some objects with settable properties. I only want them to be
> > settable from scripts in specific objects.  In this case, I want the card
> > script to be able to set object properties, but don't want the scripts in
> > the objects themselves to be able to do so, or for these objects to be
> able
> > to set their siblings properties. (so basically, limited to the card
> script)
> >
> > Reading the property is fine, but reading sibling properties is not, so
> the
> > card script should be able to set and see all properties.  An object
> should
> > only be able to see itself.
> >
> > Is this possible?
> > ___
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:

> It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is
> identical to the 6 IDE except for branding
>

It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5.

The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc.   Now
they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the
machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications
or other lived windows work, and click again.

I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and
(almost?) never under a second.


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[J. Landman Gay]

On August 23, 2015 10:18:13 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins"  wrote:
>
>I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and
>(almost?) never under a second.

Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? 
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Peter M. Brigham]

On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and
>> (almost?) never under a second.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? 

Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and 
settle there??

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[J. Landman Gay]

On August 23, 2015 1:51:35 AM CDT, Kay C Lan  wrote:
>I wonder if someone
>from the mothership sat down and said "right, we are going to make our
>Script Editor compatible with the top 3 text editors on each platform,
>how do we make that happen." if a lot of those hooks could be simplified
>and the process more 3rd party friendly?

When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you 
could work in any external editor. I never used that so I'm not sure how it's 
done, but I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least 
some remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the 
script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been. 
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Mark Wieder]

On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:


Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and 
settle there??


Don't you just hate it when that happens?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[J. Landman Gay]

On August 23, 2015 10:50:13 AM CDT, "Peter M. Brigham"  wrote:
>On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>>> I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time,
>and
>>> (almost?) never under a second.
>> 
>> Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script
>colonizing? 
>
>Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts
>and settle there??

Heh :-)  It is a particularly common occurrence when typing on a mobile device. 
Do not code there. 
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[J. Landman Gay]

On August 23, 2015 11:04:46 AM CDT, Mark Wieder  wrote:
>On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:
>
>> Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts
>and settle there??
>
>Don't you just hate it when that happens?

Okay auto-correct, I've had it with your shirt. 
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Ali Lloyd]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:

> It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is
> identical to the 6 IDE except for branding
>

It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5.

The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc.   Now
they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the
machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications
or other lived windows work, and click again.

My response was specifically in relation to what Mark said about hooks and
frontscripts.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:
>
> > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is
> > identical to the 6 IDE except for branding
> >
>
> It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5.
>
> The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc.   Now
> they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the
> machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications
> or other lived windows work, and click again.
>
> I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and
> (almost?) never under a second.
>
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: last control

[dunbarx]

This may have something to do with the fact that the "last" keyword does not 
work with groups. I left a note in the dictionary about this years ago.


Anyone think that issue might connect to this one?


Craig Newman



-Original Message-
From: Peter TB Brett 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Sat, Aug 22, 2015 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: last control


On 2015-08-22 15:30, Mike Bonner wrote:
> selecting the last control of group
doesn't work in any version I've
> tested. (various 6, and 7.0.6)
> They
compile fine, but the runtime error is this:
> 
>   executing at 8:22:40
AM
> Type Chunk: no such object
> Object Button
> Line select last control of
grp 1
> Hint 1
> 
> Strangely, the last control in my test group is a button,
so apparently 
> the
> last control IS found (to some extent) but inaccessible
this way?  
> Works
> fine sans grouping.

I filed a bug
report:

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15763

  
Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Engine
Development Team

LiveCode on reddit!


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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Mark Wieder]

On 08/23/2015 02:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:


It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is
identical to the 6 IDE except for branding.


Thanks. I stand corrected then.
Still trying to track down why this is such a CPU hog in LC7. I'll 
remove the extra checks I put in for the revSE... handlers.



This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE.


Good to hear.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card

[Mark Wieder]

On 08/21/2015 03:07 AM, AndyP wrote:


Preview image


When Im happy with it Ill make it available for hacking Open source.


Finally went and took a look - that's quite a nice start.
I'm looking forward to that release.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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RE: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your 
> scripts and settle there??

Its nothing compared with a script colonoscopy.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Kay C Lan]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

>
> When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you
> could work in any external editor.


Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually
take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like
all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit.


> I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least some
> remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the
> script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been.
>
> Yes I've seen this warning, both logically - because I have messed with
the script in BBEdit, and less obviously - when I don't believe I've
revised the script. I'm casually trying to figure this out as to whether it
is a bug or a feature I don't understand. Currently I have two theories; 1)
whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you display a variable in
it's own window (not just in the pane below the scrip you are stepping
through) and manually amend the variable value then continue to step
through the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end
point. 2) whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you manually
adjust the parameters of a conditional breakpoint, continue to step through
the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end point. In
both these cases LC becomes out of sync with what it thinks is the current
state of the script compared to what it's saved state of the script is.

As I said, I'm only casually tracking this as I certainly don't have a
recipe to make it happen and because it happens so rarely I'm never in the
frame of mind that 'Oh this could happen'. But when it does happen, at this
stage I seem to have been doing the above.
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Re: What is this - is anyone making money?

[Mark Talluto]

> On Aug 23, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Todd Fabacher  > wrote:
> 
> Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money,
> +profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I
> got things like this:
> http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 
> 

I like the last comment the most on that page:  
http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 

Looks like they used the Showcase LiveCode once had on their site. The poster 
remembers using our software at a hospital. Cool.
I think LiveCode should bring the showcase back. It seems people new to 
LiveCode like to see what has been made with this tool after all. Who would 
have guessed?

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
canelasoftware.com 

CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode 
Developers: livecloud.io 



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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:44 AM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script
> colonizing?
>

As others have already made the cheap (and funny) one, I'll pass.

But I didn't know that this could be done.

I'll try.

Hilting a script was the first thing that ever convinced me there was value
in color on a computer screen; until that, i preferred the sharper
monochrome displays.

And then friends started sending pictures of children . . .




-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/23/2015 8:57 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gay
wrote:


>
>When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you
>could work in any external editor.


Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually
take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like
all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit.




Sorry, I can't remember when it happened, but it was quite a while ago. 
I think there used to be a place in Prefs where you could indicate the 
app you wanted to use. There's no trace of that now in any of the 
versions I currently have installed, so it was some time prior to 6.x 
probably. There were some glitches that needed smoothing out and it 
looks like the idea was shelved. But maybe it wouldn't be too hard to 
put it back in.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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