[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Sandro Bonazzola]

Il giorno sab 5 feb 2022 alle ore 13:30 Nathanaël Blanchet 
ha scritto:

> Can anybody from redhat confirm what is supposed here, all my staff
> depends on the future of ovirt. How can we help to maintain this project
> alive if redhat dev are not implicated anymore? I may donate some hardware
> or is it unuseful?
>

Looks like this is being asked on several channels so I guess I'll end up
writing a blog post or add some statement on the oVirt home page.
Anyway, let me reiterate the message:

This has been discussed publicly (
https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/VIYHOW3WDR6N4APWIXQQONVHNXT3LK5L/
)
As a product, Redhat Virtualization has a different lifecycle than
oVirt which is a community project.
What will be the future of oVirt project depends on how the community will
be shaping it.
As members of the Red Hat team working on the oVirt project we are actively
doing whatever we can to ensure that the project will survive after we'll
stop working on it in the future.
- We are moving the development to public platform (GitHub)
- We are changing our release process to ship oVirt builds via widely
supported community systems like Fedora COPR and CentOS CBS.
- We started a peering program helping whoever would like to start having
an active role in oVirt community trying to make the onboarding as easy as
possible (
https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/QQVZHTFBF7NVI67PYW2EY2HV5FSIBVF3/
)
- We actively reached out to Rocky Linux, Alma Linux and Oracle,  trying to
engage them (CentOS is already engaged providing Community Build System for
Virtualization SIG).
So, what will be the future of the oVirt project depends on how the
community will be shaping it. You're welcome to contribute to shaping this
future! https://ovirt.org/develop/

Up to now:
- We have one person who reached out being interested to the peering
program, Maithreyi Gopal  (
https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/de...@ovirt.org/message/TSSE7U36UQTEGEBPWLUAETCGV4XOYLOL/
) and she's been peered with @Sanja Bonic  .
- Rocky Linux replied they were discussing within the Foundation meeting
about oVirt but I didn't got the result of the discussion yet.
- Oracle replied they are looking to get a list of OLVM developers that can
join the peering program in October 2021 but nobody reached out so far.
- I don't remember I have seen any reply from Alma so far.
- Tried to reach out to oVirt China http://www.cnovirt.com/ as they seems
to ship a rebuild of oVirt targeting Chinese speaking users without any
success

That said, no : oVirt is not dead. oVirt 4.5 is being developed actively
and it has 566 bugzilla tickets targeting it:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=target_milestone%3Aovirt-4.5.0%20
and 242 of them have been already handled.




> Le 5 févr. 2022 11:31, Thomas Hoberg a écrit :
>
>
> Please have a look here:
> https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev/
>
> Without a commercial product to pay the vast majority of the developers,
> there is just no chance oVirt can survive (unless you're ready to take
> over). RHV 4.4 full support ends this August and that very likely means
> that oVirt won't receive updates past July (judging by how things happened
> with 4.3).
>
> And those will be CI tested against the Stream Beta not EL8 including RHEL.
>
> Only with a RHV support contract ($) you will receive service until 2024
> and with extended support ($$$) until 2026.
>
> oVirt is dead already. They have known since October. They should have
> told us last year.
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-- 

Sandro Bonazzola

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Red Hat EMEA 

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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Sandro Bonazzola]

Il giorno ven 4 feb 2022 alle ore 16:06 Thomas Hoberg 
ha scritto:

> I just read this message:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2016359
>
> I am shocked but not surprised. And very, very sad.
>
> But I believe this decision needs to be communicated more prominently, as
> people should not get aboard a project already axed.
>

This is being communicated for RHV and RHGS in their communication channels.
As for oVirt and Gluster, there's no EOL announced
The Hyperconverged guide for oVirt has been moved from the main
documentation section to https://ovirt.org/dropped/gluster-hyperconverged/
as nobody is still maintaining it and it doesn't fit the rest of the
content of the doc directory (docs are asciidoc, this guide is still
markdown).
Also, being Gluster storage deprecated for RHV I would expect testing in
this area to be reduced by Red Hat QE but this doesn't mean that for oVIrt
someone else can step in and provide the testing coverage for this storage
type. The code for handling Gluster and Hyperconverged is not going to be
removed as far as I know.

-- 

Sandro Bonazzola

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Red Hat EMEA 

sbona...@redhat.com


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[ovirt-users] Re: Cannot log into oVirt Manager - certificate issue

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 9:50 PM Strahil Nikolov  wrote:
>
> So, what is the problem in restorib the engine from backup ?

Might work as well. When using --restore-from-file, it prompts
you asking whether PKI should be renewed if needed. Reply 'yes'
and you should be ok, on the engine and on the reinstalled host.

I didn't try this myself, though.

Best regards,
-- 
Didi
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Sandro Bonazzola]

Il giorno ven 4 feb 2022 alle ore 20:28 Strahil Nikolov via Users <
users@ovirt.org> ha scritto:

> RHV & RHGS might be abandoned, but this doesn't mean that oVirt & Gluster
> should stop existing just because a corporation doesn't see HugePiles of $
> in them. Removing Gluster support from oVirt, just because RHGS support is
> close to end, is irrelevant. After all, oVirt never had support in the full
> meaning of it.


I wouldn't have been able to say this in a better way :-)



>
> It is up to the community and despite the  future doesn't seem bright, I
> don't see how Openshift will take oVirt/RHV's place and I don't want to go
> back to KVM + Pacemaker .
>
> I was searching for alternatives for a small Hyperconverged setup and to
> be honest, neither CEPH, nor DRBD look so useful.
>

> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 19:28, Dori Seliškar via Users
>  wrote:
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-- 

Sandro Bonazzola

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[ovirt-users] Re: Cannot log into oVirt Manager - certificate issue

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 5:09 PM Gilboa Davara  wrote:
>
> Unlike my predecessor, I not only lost my vmengine, I also lost the vdsm 
> services on all hosts.
> All seem to be hitting the same issue - read, the certs under  
> /etc/pki/vdsm/certs and /etc/pki/ovirt* all expired a couple of days ago.
> As such, the hosted engine cannot go into global maintenance mode,

What do you mean by that? What happens if you 'hosted-engine
--set-maintenance --mode=global'?

> preventing engine-setup --offline from running.

Actually just a few days ago I pushed a patch for:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1700460

But:

If you really have a problem that you can't set global maintenance,
using this is a risk - HA might intervene in the middle and shutdown
the VM. So either make sure global maintenance does work, or stop
all HA services on all hosts.

> Two questions:
> 1. Is there any automated method to renew the vdsm certificates?

You mean, without an engine?

I think that if you have a functional engine one way or another,
you can automate this somehow, didn't check. Try checking e.g. the
python sdk examples - there might be there something you can base
on.

> 2. Assuming the previous answer is "no", assuming I'm somewhat versed in 
> using openssl, how can I manually renew them?

I'd rather not try to invent from memory how this is supposed to work,
and doing this methodically and verifying before replying is quite
an effort.

If this is really what you want, I suggest something like:

1. Set up a test env with an engine and one host
2. Backup (or use git on) /etc on both
3. Renew the host cert from the UI
4. Check what changed

You should find, IMO, that the key(s) on the host didn't
change. I guess you might also find CSRs on one or both of them.
So basically it should be something like:
1. Create a CSR on the host for the existing key (one or more,
not sure).
2. Copy and sign this on the engine using pki-enroll-request.sh
(I think you can find examples for it scattered around, perhaps
even in the main guides)
3. Copy back the generated certs to the host
4. Perhaps restart one or more services there (vdsm, imageio?,
ovn, etc.)

You can check the code in
/usr/share/ovirt-engine/ansible-runner-service-project/project
to see how it's done when initiated from the UI.

Good luck and best regards,
-- 
Didi
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

True, but with Highly Available NFS on the oVirt Nodes (Hyperconverged) ... 
It's just hard to setup, you need pacemaker and DRBD.
Best Regards,Strahil Nikolov
 
 
  On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 23:07, g...@ravnalaska.net wrote: 
  I have been using NFS and iSCSI for a couple of years now and they work 
so much better for me than GlusterFS ever did.

Gary

On 2022-02-04 06:05, Thomas Hoberg wrote:
> I just read this message: 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2016359
> 
> I am shocked but not surprised. And very, very sad.
> 
> But I believe this decision needs to be communicated more prominently,
> as people should not get aboard a project already axed.
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[ovirt-users] Re: Alternative Perspective - Re: oVirt alternatives

[Patrick Hibbs]

I wouldn't mind doing some testing. I have a little coding experience
but it's mostly on the desktop (Application) side of things not Web.
Although if it meant getting a proper certificate management UI I'd be
willing do it. (I've been thinking about rolling up my sleeves for that
exact purpose anyway.)

The main issue as I see it is two fold:

 1. We don't have all of the needed sources to rebuild ovirt
from scratch. I.e. We're missing the oVirt Node build scripts.
 Further, we also don't have a complete set of SRPMs.
I've tried getting them for backup / disaster recovery issues, and it's
a huge pain to track them all down from the various repos that are
involved. Keep in mind that was *before* RH started archiving repos so
it's probably even harder now. (Note: You can't just do "reposync --
source" that's been broken for years because CentOS didn't want to
rebuild their package lists to include them automaticly. Some of them
are on vault.centos.org, but some are not. Tracking down the third
party repos oVirt uses is also difficult for the same reason.) Does
anyone have a link to the complete set of source packages outside of
oVirt's dev team?

        2. oVirt's fate is still very much uncertain. I don't think
anyone really wants to go through the trouble of creating a fork unless
oVirt as a project is truely EOL'd. Currently we know that RHVM will
EOL in a few years, but the oVirt project itself has made no such
annoucement. All of the threads on this subject are more or less
contingency planning sessions and criticism of a decision they haven't
made yet. Personally, I think we should wait until oVirt has made their
statement publicly before going down this path.

As for why the criticism is being made, I can say it has some merrit.
If oVirt were to continue past RHVM's EOL, or if oVirt were to be
forked by the community into a new project, accepting the RH
deprecations into oVirt's design and source tree is short-sighted. At
best it's them trying to avoid techincal debt and loosing (unofficial)
support for RHEL. At worst, it's oVirt degrading itself in deference to
RH's new shiny offering at the oVirt users' expense and detriment.
Again, we're now at two functionalities that have been, or will be,
removed: SPICE (which is all around better than the suggested VNC
replacement) and now GlusterFS (which will cause massive downtime for
those unfortunate enough to have used it as their storage backend.)
Given that oVirt never really supported RHEL outright, (i.e. it's not
tested on that platform), and that many of the people on this mailing
list have requested support for CentOS's various replacement distros.
I, and others, don't see a reason for oVirt's continuing to accept
these changes. A statement on the matter would be nice.

Personally, I will wait for an official annoucement from oVirt before
making any decisions as well. Although, for what it's worth, I would
cast my vote to retain the GlusterFS support if it's avaiable on the
hosts. I was already using GlusterFS 9 packages in oVirt 4.3 and CentOS
7 so I could connect a set of raspberry pi 4 bricks to the engine. So
it's not like the support cannot exist if RH doesn't provide the
packages for it. (Fun home experiment. Turns out it works just fine. I
can easily run 20+ VMs concurrently with this setup, and it pays for
itself via the electric bill as a bonus.)

-Patrick Hibbs

On Sun, 2022-02-06 at 19:07 +, David White via Users wrote:
> At the risk of sounding like a Red Hat or IBM fanboy, I have decided
> to give Red Hat the benefit of the doubt here, and to not make any
> decisions about switching off of oVirt until and unless an official
> announcement is made.
> 
> In the meantime, I know that I need to move off of Gluster (and I
> made that decision before the Gluster announcement), and I would need
> storage with any other solution anyway, so that's where I'm going to
> focus my own efforts.
> 
> In the meantime, while I realize that the optics of a company like
> IBM / Red Hat shutting a project like oVirt down looks bad to the
> FOSS community, I'm going to push back a little bit. We have had
> access to a FOSS application that obviously works for a lot of
> people. No company is required to provide their services for free,
> and likewise, I'm of the opinion that one needs to be willing to pay
> (or contribute in some way) for a quality product service. It reminds
> me of the mantra: "Fast, Cheap, Free - pick two".
> 
> So here's an alternative perspective: What can the community
> contribute and do in order to keep the project going? Anyone could
> fork it, rebrand it, and run with it. 
> 
> I claim to be a software developer, and the uplink in my datacenter
> is only 100mbps right now (of course I can increase it when needed),
> so I doubt I could provide much value in terms of hosting or coding. 
> 
> But I do know security. I'm a Linux systems engineer with over 10
> years of experience. I know website content management systems. And

[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[gary]

I have been using NFS and iSCSI for a couple of years now and they work 
so much better for me than GlusterFS ever did.


Gary

On 2022-02-04 06:05, Thomas Hoberg wrote:
I just read this message: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2016359


I am shocked but not surprised. And very, very sad.

But I believe this decision needs to be communicated more prominently,
as people should not get aboard a project already axed.
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[ovirt-users] Re: Cannot log into oVirt Manager - certificate issue

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

So, what is the problem in restorib the engine from backup ?
Best Regards,Strahil Nikolov
 
 
  On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 17:30, Gilboa Davara wrote:   
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[ovirt-users] Re: Alternative Perspective - Re: oVirt alternatives

[David White via Users]

And when I said "I claim to be" I meant to say: I do NOT claim to be. :)

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

--- Original Message ---

On Sunday, February 6th, 2022 at 2:07 PM, David White 
 wrote:

> At the risk of sounding like a Red Hat or IBM fanboy, I have decided to give 
> Red Hat the benefit of the doubt here, and to not make any decisions about 
> switching off of oVirt until and unless an official announcement is made.
> 

> In the meantime, I know that I need to move off of Gluster (and I made that 
> decision before the Gluster announcement), and I would need storage with any 
> other solution anyway, so that's where I'm going to focus my own efforts.
> 

> In the meantime, while I realize that the optics of a company like IBM / Red 
> Hat shutting a project like oVirt down looks bad to the FOSS community, I'm 
> going to push back a little bit. We have had access to a FOSS application 
> that obviously works for a lot of people. No company is required to provide 
> their services for free, and likewise, I'm of the opinion that one needs to 
> be willing to pay (or contribute in some way) for a quality product service. 
> It reminds me of the mantra: "Fast, Cheap, Free - pick two".
> 

> So here's an alternative perspective: What can the community contribute and 
> do in order to keep the project going? Anyone could fork it, rebrand it, and 
> run with it. 
> 

> I claim to be a software developer, and the uplink in my datacenter is only 
> 100mbps right now (of course I can increase it when needed), so I doubt I 
> could provide much value in terms of hosting or coding.
> 

> But I do know security. I'm a Linux systems engineer with over 10 years of 
> experience. I know website content management systems. And people have told 
> me that I'm good at documentation. So I think I have a lot of skill sets that 
> I could "offer" (albeit I don't have much time, and as we all know, time is 
> money. I've been dealing with a serious personal matter since beginning of 
> December, and I'm effectively an acting single parent at the moment).
> 

> I'll end this the way I started: I'm going to wait to see what happens before 
> I personally make any decisions to change my entire underlying virtualization 
> infrastructure. In the meantime, I'll continue to work on what I can control 
> - the underlying storage. And if oVirt does shutdown in the future, I'd love 
> to have a conversation with anyone interested in helping out to fork the 
> project and keep it running. 
> 

> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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Description: application/pgp-keys


signature.asc
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[ovirt-users] Re: Alternative Perspective - Re: oVirt alternatives

[Dan Yasny]

Alternatively, if all of a sudden a large number of customers show up
willing to pay for RHV, the decision to drop it might be reversed.

On Sun, 6 Feb 2022, 14:10 David White via Users,  wrote:

> At the risk of sounding like a Red Hat or IBM fanboy, I have decided to
> give Red Hat the benefit of the doubt here, and to not make any decisions
> about switching off of oVirt until and unless an official announcement is
> made.
>
> In the meantime, I know that I need to move off of Gluster (and I made
> that decision before the Gluster announcement), and I would need storage
> with any other solution anyway, so that's where I'm going to focus my own
> efforts.
>
> In the meantime, while I realize that the optics of a company like IBM /
> Red Hat shutting a project like oVirt down looks bad to the FOSS community,
> I'm going to push back a little bit. We have had access to a FOSS
> application that obviously works for a lot of people. No company is
> required to provide their services for free, and likewise, I'm of the
> opinion that one needs to be willing to pay (or contribute in some way) for
> a quality product service. It reminds me of the mantra: "Fast, Cheap, Free
> - pick two".
>
> So here's an alternative perspective: What can the community contribute
> and do in order to keep the project going? Anyone could fork it, rebrand
> it, and run with it.
>
> I claim to be a software developer, and the uplink in my datacenter is
> only 100mbps right now (of course I can increase it when needed), so I
> doubt I could provide much value in terms of hosting or coding.
>
> But I do know security. I'm a Linux systems engineer with over 10 years of
> experience. I know website content management systems. And people have told
> me that I'm good at documentation. So I think I have a lot of skill sets
> that I could "offer" (albeit I don't have much time, and as we all know,
> time is money. I've been dealing with a serious personal matter since
> beginning of December, and I'm effectively an acting single parent at the
> moment).
>
> I'll end this the way I started: I'm going to wait to see what happens
> before I personally make any decisions to change my entire underlying
> virtualization infrastructure. In the meantime, I'll continue to work on
> what I can control - the underlying storage. And if oVirt does shutdown in
> the future, I'd love to have a conversation with anyone interested in
> helping out to fork the project and keep it running.
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
>
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[ovirt-users] Alternative Perspective - Re: oVirt alternatives

[David White via Users]

At the risk of sounding like a Red Hat or IBM fanboy, I have decided to give 
Red Hat the benefit of the doubt here, and to not make any decisions about 
switching off of oVirt until and unless an official announcement is made.

In the meantime, I know that I need to move off of Gluster (and I made that 
decision before the Gluster announcement), and I would need storage with any 
other solution anyway, so that's where I'm going to focus my own efforts.

In the meantime, while I realize that the optics of a company like IBM / Red 
Hat shutting a project like oVirt down looks bad to the FOSS community, I'm 
going to push back a little bit. We have had access to a FOSS application that 
obviously works for a lot of people. No company is required to provide their 
services for free, and likewise, I'm of the opinion that one needs to be 
willing to pay (or contribute in some way) for a quality product service. It 
reminds me of the mantra: "Fast, Cheap, Free - pick two".

So here's an alternative perspective: What can the community contribute and do 
in order to keep the project going? Anyone could fork it, rebrand it, and run 
with it. 

I claim to be a software developer, and the uplink in my datacenter is only 
100mbps right now (of course I can increase it when needed), so I doubt I could 
provide much value in terms of hosting or coding.

But I do know security. I'm a Linux systems engineer with over 10 years of 
experience. I know website content management systems. And people have told me 
that I'm good at documentation. So I think I have a lot of skill sets that I 
could "offer" (albeit I don't have much time, and as we all know, time is 
money. I've been dealing with a serious personal matter since beginning of 
December, and I'm effectively an acting single parent at the moment).

I'll end this the way I started: I'm going to wait to see what happens before I 
personally make any decisions to change my entire underlying virtualization 
infrastructure. In the meantime, I'll continue to work on what I can control - 
the underlying storage. And if oVirt does shutdown in the future, I'd love to 
have a conversation with anyone interested in helping out to fork the project 
and keep it running. 

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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Description: application/pgp-keys


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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Wesley Stewart]

Good insight.

I use containers a lot, but the virtualization sections are surely
separate?  I might have to try out a node and see how it goes.

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 12:25 PM Strahil Nikolov  wrote:

> I've setup a test cluster with Kadalu (which is actually conternerized
> GlusterFS) for storage.
>
> To be honest, it is far more complex. I remember my first day with oVirt
> -> the UI doesn't need any explanation, while working with OKD requires at
> least some knowledge in the terminology of the k8s World.
>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 16:46, Wesley Stewart
>  wrote:
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

I've setup a test cluster with Kadalu (which is actually conternerized 
GlusterFS) for storage.
To be honest, it is far more complex. I remember my first day with oVirt -> the 
UI doesn't need any explanation, while working with OKD requires at least some 
knowledge in the terminology of the k8s World.
Best Regards,Strahil Nikolov
 
 
  On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 16:46, Wesley Stewart wrote:   
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[ovirt-users] Re: Cannot log into oVirt Manager - certificate issue

[Gilboa Davara]

Hello,

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 8:46 AM Yedidyah Bar David  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:06 PM Diggy Mc  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 8:16 PM Diggy Mc  wrote:
> > >
> > > If it's a certificate created by engine-setup for you, you can run
> > > 'engine-setup' and it can recreate it for you. If you do not want to
> > > update the system, you can run it with 'engine-setup --offline'.
> > > Otherwise, if it's a certificate you got elsewhere, you should update
> > > it manually, perhaps following some of the steps of the procedure to
> > > replace the certificate - the one you followed originally.
> > >
> > > Good luck and best regards,
> >
> >
> > It is the original certificate created during initial install/setup.  If
> possible, I would like to have another oVirt generated certificate without
> upgrading the engine's version. Where can I find instructions on how to do
> that?
> >  What would be the pros and cons of generating my own self-signed
> certificate
>
> Generally speaking, this is recommended. The main "con" is simply that it
> requires some work and responsibility.
>
> > with a longer validity period?
>
> You already linked to the pki-renew page. This one links at several
> bugs, which link to several patches, which (also) explain the reasoning,
> also linking e.g. at:
>
>
> https://www.thesslstore.com/blog/ssl-certificate-validity-will-be-limited-to-one-year-by-apples-safari-browser/
> https://cabforum.org/2017/03/17/ballot-193-825-day-certificate-lifetimes/
>
> Latter is old, this one is newer (found by searching their site for "398
> days"):
>
> https://cabforum.org/2021/04/22/ballot-sc42-398-day-re-use-period/
>
> >  Where can I find instructions on that?
>
>
> https://www.ovirt.org/documentation/administration_guide/#appe-Red_Hat_Enterprise_Virtualization_and_SSL
>
> Actually creating your own CA and signing certs with it is not in the
> scope of this document. You can search the net and find several guides
> on how to do that, or you can use the services of an existing CA -
> letsencrypt is quite popular these days, being free (gratis).
>
> >  Again, thanks for your help.
>
> Good luck and best regards,
> --
> Didi
>

Unlike my predecessor, I not only lost my vmengine, I also lost the vdsm
services on all hosts.
All seem to be hitting the same issue - read, the certs under
/etc/pki/vdsm/certs and /etc/pki/ovirt* all expired a couple of days ago.
As such, the hosted engine cannot go into global maintenance mode,
preventing engine-setup --offline from running.
Two questions:
1. Is there any automated method to renew the vdsm certificates?
2. Assuming the previous answer is "no", assuming I'm somewhat versed in
using openssl, how can I manually renew them?

Thanks,

Gilboa
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Thomas Hoberg]

Alas, Ceph seems to take up an entire brain and mine regularly overflows just 
looking at their home page.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Wesley Stewart]

Sorry autocorrect on a cellphone.

Has anyone tried the openshift upstream okd?*

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 8:04 AM Wesley Stewart  wrote:

> Has anyone tried the open shift upstream old?  Looks like they support
> virtualization now.  Which I'm guessing is the upstream for openshift
> virtualization?
>
> https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 10:34 PM Alex McWhirter  wrote:
>
>> Oh i have spent years looking.
>>
>> ProxMox is probably the closest option, but has no multi-clustering
>> support. The clusters are more or less isolated from each other, and
>> would need another layer if you needed the ability to migrate between
>> them.
>>
>> XCP-ng, cool. No spice support. No UI for managing clustered storage
>> that is open source.
>>
>> Harvester, probably the closest / newest contender. Needs a lot more
>> attention / work.
>>
>> OpenNebula, more like a DIY AWS than anything else, but was functional
>> last i played with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone actually played with OpenShift virtualization (replaces RHV)?
>> Wonder if OKD supports it with a similar model?
>>
>> On 2022-02-05 07:40, Thomas Hoberg wrote:
>> > There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt,
>> > but with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut
>> > down in Q2.
>> >
>> > So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to
>> > oVirt because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.
>> >
>> > Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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>
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

[Thomas Hoberg]

I just hit across the fact that XOSAN (the "native" HCI solution for XCP-ng) is 
in fact LinStor...

That's what's behind the €6000/year support fee, but there is a beta that's 
community and that I'll try fow now.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Wesley Stewart]

Has anyone tried the open shift upstream old?  Looks like they support
virtualization now.  Which I'm guessing is the upstream for openshift
virtualization?

https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html



On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 10:34 PM Alex McWhirter  wrote:

> Oh i have spent years looking.
>
> ProxMox is probably the closest option, but has no multi-clustering
> support. The clusters are more or less isolated from each other, and
> would need another layer if you needed the ability to migrate between
> them.
>
> XCP-ng, cool. No spice support. No UI for managing clustered storage
> that is open source.
>
> Harvester, probably the closest / newest contender. Needs a lot more
> attention / work.
>
> OpenNebula, more like a DIY AWS than anything else, but was functional
> last i played with it.
>
>
>
> Has anyone actually played with OpenShift virtualization (replaces RHV)?
> Wonder if OKD supports it with a similar model?
>
> On 2022-02-05 07:40, Thomas Hoberg wrote:
> > There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt,
> > but with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut
> > down in Q2.
> >
> > So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to
> > oVirt because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.
> >
> > Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Florian Schmid via Users]

Hi

We have been using LXC, before we went to oVirt 4.0. We started with 3.6, but 
production use was 4.0.

The problem we had with LXC was the missing live migration feature and the 
biggest issue was the shared storage on NFS.
With all the hundred millions of files on the NFS storage, the performance got 
worse and worse with each new container and we had hundreds of them.

In my former company, we were using OpenVZ, but I thought it was dead after 
RedHat 7 was released.

Now with ovirt 4.3, we are really satisfied with it. We have several NFS 
storage domains and nearly 1000 VMs running on.

I have experience with Proxmox, but the big problem we may have with it, that 
we have to split our clusters and have all of them to manage separately.
Also, one of our clusters have nearly 40 hosts in there, which also might be 
problematic with their management approach and corosync.
At least in older versions before using the latest corosync, I think 30 host 
was the maximum supported and tested hosts in one cluster.
I also want to use my network for important data and not completely for 
corosync data...

Opennebula, we had a look before we went to ovirt, but in the past, I wasn't 
satisfied with it.

We are still on ovirt 4.3 because of the issues with CentOS 8 EOL and we don't 
want to use CentOS stream for our production.
Also the new model of ovirt with the "rolling releases" like datacenter 
version, 4.5, 4.6 and what ever is now there, I was never happy with.

In the past, when we have been on 4.2, we have upgraded directly to 4.3.8 and 
it was perfectly stable.
Now, I really don't know, if it is stable enough, because of the new features 
added with every new datacenter version.

The good thing with ovirt 4.3 is, that you can use CentOS 7.9, which is the 
last one. With ovirt 4.4, when it will be deprecated, we may be at 8.7 or so, 
but you may not be able to upgrade then to a later version.


Proxmox has I think a HCI with ceph.
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[ovirt-users] Re: VM Image is Locked after cleaning up of problematic snapshot.

[Arik Hadas]

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 9:00 AM Muhammad Aidilfitri Bin Saleh <
darketemp...@outlook.sg> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I requires your input as the VM that is currently Hosted on Ovirt 4.4.4.5
> is showing a locked Icon in the status column. I am unable to perform any
> actions on this particular VM as it shows that the "Snapshot is currently
> being created for VM 
>
> There was a failed snapshot attempt executed earlier but I have gone
> through the steps to identified and unlock the said images and snapshot
> using the build tools /usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/dbutils. I even went
> into the DB to identified the failed snapshot but still no luck.
>
> I have restarted the ovirt-engine service and also the Standalone VM
> hosting this Ovirt-Engine but still not able to release the VM. I have also
> performed the ovirt-setup but still no luck on this portion.
>

This means that the tasks of the snapshot command are still in the database
and lead to restoring the VM lock (which is an in-memory lock) when the
ovirt-engine service starts.
You can try to identify the relevant rows and removes them from the
'command_entities' table in the database and then restart ovirt-engine


>
> Any assistance is appreciated.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Thomas Hoberg]

> Oh i have spent years looking.
> 
> ProxMox is probably the closest option, but has no multi-clustering 
> support. The clusters are more or less isolated from each other, and 
> would need another layer if you needed the ability to migrate between 
> them.
Also been looking at ProxMox for ages. We were using OpenVZ in compliance-heavy 
production so a nice GUI and a VM option seemed ideal. But 
SWsoft/Parallels/Virtuzzo and ProxMox were competing not collaborating and 
diverging with distinct hypervisors and IaaS containers, which seems a silly 
tribal squarrel in face of today's cloud invasion. Never thought LXC might do 
better than OpenVZ (or I might return to Xen from KVM). Redhat fought both IaaS 
containers with nothing but VMs and only got saved by (PaaS) Docker, which they 
then tried to smother with podman and Kubernetes.

But Proxmox is not HCI or only via DIY.
> 
> XCP-ng, cool. No spice support. No UI for managing clustered storage 
> that is open source.
true and the most attractive option seems a paid upgrade (and not ready yet)
Don't think I'd miss SPICE or that it has much of a future.
But nothing HCI has ever deployed so quickly and easily, including vSphere as 
the supposed market leader.
> 
> Harvester, probably the closest / newest contender. Needs a lot more 
> attention / work.
It looks great, thanks for the tip. No idea if they survive the next three 
months.
I am adding the link here, because that name needs to be searched right ;-) 
https://harvesterhci.io/
> 
> OpenNebula, more like a DIY AWS than anything else, but was functional 
> last i played with it.
Lots of material, but is it actually open source? And do they have a free tier? 
They seem to have everything... which makes me more suspicious than happy these 
days.
> 
> 
> Has anyone actually played with OpenShift virtualization (replaces RHV)? 
> Wonder if OKD supports it with a similar model?
The oVirt team had hinted at an integrated container VM solution when I started 
with oVirt. Obviously the pods and etc-daemons need to run somewhere and VMs or 
IaaS containers like OpenVZ or LXC would be a good start. That never 
materialized and evidently they chose to abandon IaaS and HCI completely.

But there is plenty of workloads still out there, that are more comfortable 
with a IaaS abstraction and more concerned with scale-in than scale-out. Or 
which live at the real edge, in the field, on tracks or roads or in the middle 
of an ocean.

I don't quite see how OpenShift replaces RHV, especially not at the [real] 
edge. The software industry may be transitioning towards cloudy application 
models, but it's note quite all there yet.

My impression is that Redhat is very carefully avoiding a CentOS repeat for 
every other open source project they do. Their upstream variants seem far more 
beta in OKD and Kubvirt than oVirt ever was.

"No Free Lunch" seems to have been chiseled into the three letters of their new 
owners for almost a century now.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

[Nathaniel Roach via Users]

Just a point of clarification here - Hyper-V as a standalone ISO is EOL 
- the technology and services will continue in the main distribution.


On 5/2/22 21:03, marcel d'heureuse wrote:

Moin,

We will take a look into proxmox.
Hyper v is also eol, if server server2022 is standard.


Br
Marcel

Am 5. Februar 2022 13:40:30 MEZ schrieb Thomas Hoberg 
:


There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt, but 
with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut down in Q2.

So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to oVirt 
because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.

Let's post what we find here in this thread.

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