RE: Re: Tapestry 5 Discussions
Epstein, Ezra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 01/08/2006 21:31:27: Rather I was questioning how the decision about IoC adoption is being made. At the time HiveMind got started the IoC container space was pretty open and empty. I don't really think thats true at all, but Hivemind did have some advantages over the competition, mostly the fact that it had been designed by Howard as the IoC provider for Tapestry. Of course Spring lacks features needed. Understood. Could Spring be extended? I find that quite hard to believe, more likely those who are saying so don't have the experience of Spring required. Of course it might still be *difficult* to use Spring for Tapestry IoC, but that is a different issue, and as Spring is an OSS roject too there is little doubt that the Tapestry team could engage with the Spring guys to work out whats needed. The trouble we all have -- it is certainly not unique to a creator of software or this software -- so I'm speaking of my own experience, is that I (and most folks I know) tend to get a bit skewed in favor of things that are our babies so to speak. And there's nothing wrong with that. But we need to recognize it when we're trying to make a decision and then correct for it. +1. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Tapestry 5 Discussions
I think there's a mis-communication. I do not at all feel HiveMind is just an ego trip. Far from it. Rather I was questioning how the decision about IoC adoption is being made. At the time HiveMind got started the IoC container space was pretty open and empty. Not so anymore. Of course Spring lacks features needed. Understood. Could Spring be extended? The trouble we all have -- it is certainly not unique to a creator of software or this software -- so I'm speaking of my own experience, is that I (and most folks I know) tend to get a bit skewed in favor of things that are our babies so to speak. And there's nothing wrong with that. But we need to recognize it when we're trying to make a decision and then correct for it. If HM is the best choice (not just technically, but also in terms of adoption) then great, but what's the process of deciding? Is it worth exploring Spring enhancements? That was the point. Thanks, Ezra Epstein -Original Message- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hv @ Fashion Content Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:27 AM To: users@tapestry.apache.org Subject: Re: Tapestry 5 Discussions Trashing HiveMind is sort of uninformed(not trying to sling mud). As previously pointed out you can't really do contributions in Spring. And that was one of the key T3 features it was supposed to replace. While I'm not terribly happy about the multitude of concepts involved in writing a non-trivial Tap4 app, I bet it would have been much worse if it had been built on Spring. Being a bit blunt: If you think HiveMind is just an ego trip why dont you write a version of ApplicationServlet that uses Spring instead. If the two are equal it shouldn't be much of a challenge to swap HiveMind out. Henrik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Tapestry 5 Discussions
On 8/1/06, Epstein, Ezra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there's a mis-communication. I do not at all feel HiveMind is just an ego trip. Far from it. Rather I was questioning how the decision about IoC adoption is being made. At the time HiveMind got started the IoC container space was pretty open and empty. Not so anymore. Of course Spring lacks features needed. Understood. Could Spring be extended? The trouble we all have -- it is certainly not unique to a creator of software or this software -- so I'm speaking of my own experience, is that I (and most folks I know) tend to get a bit skewed in favor of things that are our babies so to speak. And there's nothing wrong with that. But we need to recognize it when we're trying to make a decision and then correct for it. If HM is the best choice (not just technically, but also in terms of adoption) then great, but what's the process of deciding? Is it worth exploring Spring enhancements? That was the point. I believe each of these containers has its place. Spring is more business oriented, and has a great API for transactions and working with DAO. For anything that has to do with business logic, spring is fantastic. But it is far from lightweight and currently it would require way more xml + code to do what hivemind is doing. Hivemind was the main glue in tapestry 4 and allows to customize any part of tapestry and wire your own stuff. But many tapestry 3 users have been complaining about hivemind, it adds a fair learning curve for tapestry. Howard's IoC solution seems to me the most appropriate... It is very lightweight and dedicated. No need to bother with an xml configuration + java stuff. Everything will be in the code and the internal mecanims will be dedicated for tapestry. This should lower the learning curve quite a bit. Once the IoC will be finished I heard about plans for using the same model for hivemind... And at that point it would be really nice if somekind of spring integration could happen too. I'd like to use tapestry/hivemind and spring more seamlessly. Thanks -- Henri Dupre Actualis Center
