Re: I am going to write a WO book
Thanks to all who responded here and by private mail. You all have provided interesting input on all aspects of such a task. Please forgive me that I have not yet responded to each of you personally. I am sure there will be interesting discussions @WOWDC about the future of WO and how we can promote WO. I am looking forward do meeting you in person and talk things through. See you there, in the meantime have fun ---markus--- On 08.06.2012, at 14:48, Markus Ruggiero wrote: > Folks, > > after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs > another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But > first let me give some background on why I would do this > > I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project > work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD > (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing > a course book "Intro to OO Programming with Java". The courses I teach are > part of the formal training to become an application developer with an > official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists > of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can > offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my > company. > Last year I had the opportunity to do a module "OO-Multiuser Application with > Relational Database". The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but > the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. > I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping > is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the > old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The > students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course > material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something > like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will > be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course > again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper > course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course > book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading > (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal > training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and > preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German > but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific > requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be > left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more > than 80 percent of the content. > > Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an > e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print > (but that will be the school's thing do do). > > I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 > course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that > all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to > be important? WOnder? Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is > clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey > there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). > E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither > should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and > adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up > the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license > states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not > state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. > > Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or > mail them directly to me. > > Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal > > ---markus--- > ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Op 10-jun.-2012, om 00:37 heeft Ted Archibald het volgende geschreven: > Since the public will never see a new release of WO, WO 6.0 = Wonder. > > It's kinda like saying that someone should write a book on Hypercard, and we > should all participate in what Hypercard 3.0 from apple would look like. > > "It would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this > eclipse/wonder stuff." > > I wasn't an expert at the old WO style, but dear god is the new form of > development + wonder many times better. > > Just last year I had to rewrite a legacy app I wrote 6 years ago and make it > into a modern app. What I can implement now is crazy compared to the basic > system I had then. Debugging, maintenance and refactoring is now a dream > compared to the nightmare before. > And would that contradict ease of development of dragging eo's on components to create displaygroups, or having a rulemodeler that could derive possible rules based on entities or attributes? Does XCode not have drag and drop because it is easy to do refactoring? I suppose that ease of use for a new/accidental developer is not on the list of things to do for people who can enhance the developer environment, which is fully understandable: they know what to do, and work in a certain optimized way, but I think it will ultimately lead to the demise of a developers environment. If a school or university teacher has to demonstrate concepts of MVC, or ORM, I would not choose WOLips, while I know that there were classes that use WebObjects Builder and EOModeler for just that. > On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Bart Rijpers wrote: > Hi list, > > I think it is a very good idea to write a book about legacy WebObjects. It > would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this eclipse/wonder > stuff. It would be even nicer if everyone one the list could participate in > describing how an updated WO 2012 à la Apple would look like: > - added support for new databases > - integration with iOS app development (deploy WOA on iOS) > - Jquery mobile kind of support like the framework Ken wrote, but integrated > in an app like WO builder > - New HTML editor in WO builder > - integration with Netbeans / glassfish server for deployment > - more? > > In other words: which architecture would be used for WO 6.0? > > Cheers, Bart > > > On 9 Jun 2012, at 21:00, webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote: > > > Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to > >webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > >webobjects-dev-ow...@lists.apple.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: I am going to write a WO book (Lon Varscsak) > > 2. Re: Custom Entity Classes (Chuck Hill) > > 3. ERAttachment and _dbupdater do not agree in Wonder > > integration? (Johan Henselmans) > > 4. Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 5. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (David Holt) > > 6. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 7. Re: I am going to write a WO book (James Cicenia) > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:23 -0700 > > From: Lon Varscsak > > To: WebObjects Apple Dev > > Subject: Re: I am going to write a WO book > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I felt left out. :P +1 > > > > Long live WOnder! > > > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher > > wrote: > >> +1. > >> > >> On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > >> > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > >>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? > >>>>> &g
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Good summary! > Since the public will never see a new release of WO, WO 6.0 = Wonder. > > It's kinda like saying that someone should write a book on Hypercard, and we > should all participate in what Hypercard 3.0 from apple would look like. > > "It would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this > eclipse/wonder stuff." > > I wasn't an expert at the old WO style, but dear god is the new form of > development + wonder many times better. > > Just last year I had to rewrite a legacy app I wrote 6 years ago and make it > into a modern app. What I can implement now is crazy compared to the basic > system I had then. Debugging, maintenance and refactoring is now a dream > compared to the nightmare before. > > On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Bart Rijpers wrote: > Hi list, > > I think it is a very good idea to write a book about legacy WebObjects. It > would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this eclipse/wonder > stuff. It would be even nicer if everyone one the list could participate in > describing how an updated WO 2012 à la Apple would look like: > - added support for new databases > - integration with iOS app development (deploy WOA on iOS) > - Jquery mobile kind of support like the framework Ken wrote, but integrated > in an app like WO builder > - New HTML editor in WO builder > - integration with Netbeans / glassfish server for deployment > - more? > > In other words: which architecture would be used for WO 6.0? > > Cheers, Bart > > > On 9 Jun 2012, at 21:00, webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote: > > > Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to > >webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > >webobjects-dev-ow...@lists.apple.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: I am going to write a WO book (Lon Varscsak) > > 2. Re: Custom Entity Classes (Chuck Hill) > > 3. ERAttachment and _dbupdater do not agree in Wonder > > integration? (Johan Henselmans) > > 4. Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 5. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (David Holt) > > 6. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 7. Re: I am going to write a WO book (James Cicenia) > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:23 -0700 > > From: Lon Varscsak > > To: WebObjects Apple Dev > > Subject: Re: I am going to write a WO book > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I felt left out. :P +1 > > > > Long live WOnder! > > > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher > > wrote: > >> +1. > >> > >> On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > >> > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > >>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? > >>>>> > >>>>> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. > >>>>> ___ > >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > >>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca > >>>> > >>>> ___ > >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > >>&
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Since the public will never see a new release of WO, WO 6.0 = Wonder. It's kinda like saying that someone should write a book on Hypercard, and we should all participate in what Hypercard 3.0 from apple would look like. "It would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this eclipse/wonder stuff." I wasn't an expert at the old WO style, but dear god is the new form of development + wonder many times better. Just last year I had to rewrite a legacy app I wrote 6 years ago and make it into a modern app. What I can implement now is crazy compared to the basic system I had then. Debugging, maintenance and refactoring is now a dream compared to the nightmare before. On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Bart Rijpers wrote: > Hi list, > > I think it is a very good idea to write a book about legacy WebObjects. It > would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this > eclipse/wonder stuff. It would be even nicer if everyone one the list could > participate in describing how an updated WO 2012 à la Apple would look like: > - added support for new databases > - integration with iOS app development (deploy WOA on iOS) > - Jquery mobile kind of support like the framework Ken wrote, but > integrated in an app like WO builder > - New HTML editor in WO builder > - integration with Netbeans / glassfish server for deployment > - more? > > In other words: which architecture would be used for WO 6.0? > > Cheers, Bart > > > On 9 Jun 2012, at 21:00, webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote: > > > Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to > >webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > >webobjects-dev-ow...@lists.apple.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: I am going to write a WO book (Lon Varscsak) > > 2. Re: Custom Entity Classes (Chuck Hill) > > 3. ERAttachment and _dbupdater do not agree in Wonder > > integration? (Johan Henselmans) > > 4. Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 5. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (David Holt) > > 6. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > > 7. Re: I am going to write a WO book (James Cicenia) > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:23 -0700 > > From: Lon Varscsak > > To: WebObjects Apple Dev > > Subject: Re: I am going to write a WO book > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I felt left out. :P +1 > > > > Long live WOnder! > > > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher > wrote: > >> +1. > >> > >> On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > >> > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > >>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? > >>>>> > >>>>> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. > >>>>> ___ > >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > >>>>> > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca > >>>> > >>>> ___ > >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > >>>> > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/op
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1 I tend to say more power to you. I think if I were to write such a book, it would be an academic book for either software engineering, design patterns, or object relational machines in DBMS. None the less, there is value in a good old how to O'Reilly or Schaum's Outline type book. What would really be cool is for it to be an iBook. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Jun 9, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Bart Rijpers wrote: > Hi list, > > I think it is a very good idea to write a book about legacy WebObjects. It > would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this eclipse/wonder > stuff. It would be even nicer if everyone one the list could participate in > describing how an updated WO 2012 à la Apple would look like: > - added support for new databases > - integration with iOS app development (deploy WOA on iOS) > - Jquery mobile kind of support like the framework Ken wrote, but integrated > in an app like WO builder > - New HTML editor in WO builder > - integration with Netbeans / glassfish server for deployment > - more? > > In other words: which architecture would be used for WO 6.0? > > Cheers, Bart > > > On 9 Jun 2012, at 21:00, webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote: > >> Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to >> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> webobjects-dev-ow...@lists.apple.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: I am going to write a WO book (Lon Varscsak) >> 2. Re: Custom Entity Classes (Chuck Hill) >> 3. ERAttachment and _dbupdater do not agree in Wonder >> integration? (Johan Henselmans) >> 4. Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without >> ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) >> 5. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without >> ERModernLook? (David Holt) >> 6. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without >> ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) >> 7. Re: I am going to write a WO book (James Cicenia) >> >> >> -- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:23 -0700 >> From: Lon Varscsak >> To: WebObjects Apple Dev >> Subject: Re: I am going to write a WO book >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> I felt left out. :P +1 >> >> Long live WOnder! >> >> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: >>> +1. >>> >>> On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: >>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? >>>>>> >>>>>> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to ch...@global-village.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>>> >>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>>> knowledge of WebObjects or
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Hi list, I think it is a very good idea to write a book about legacy WebObjects. It would be great to capture how easy it worked compared to this eclipse/wonder stuff. It would be even nicer if everyone one the list could participate in describing how an updated WO 2012 à la Apple would look like: - added support for new databases - integration with iOS app development (deploy WOA on iOS) - Jquery mobile kind of support like the framework Ken wrote, but integrated in an app like WO builder - New HTML editor in WO builder - integration with Netbeans / glassfish server for deployment - more? In other words: which architecture would be used for WO 6.0? Cheers, Bart On 9 Jun 2012, at 21:00, webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to >webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >webobjects-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at >webobjects-dev-ow...@lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: I am going to write a WO book (Lon Varscsak) > 2. Re: Custom Entity Classes (Chuck Hill) > 3. ERAttachment and _dbupdater do not agree in Wonder > integration? (Johan Henselmans) > 4. Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > 5. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > ERModernLook? (David Holt) > 6. Re: Creating Wonder D2W Application using WOLips without > ERModernLook? (Farrukh Ijaz) > 7. Re: I am going to write a WO book (James Cicenia) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:23 -0700 > From: Lon Varscsak > To: WebObjects Apple Dev > Subject: Re: I am going to write a WO book > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I felt left out. :P +1 > > Long live WOnder! > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: >> +1. >> >> On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: >> >>> +1 >>> >>> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. >>> >>> >>> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? >>>>> >>>>> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. >>>>> ___ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to ch...@global-village.net >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>> >>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>> http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kelleherk%40gmail.com >>> >>> This email sent to kelleh...@gmail.com >> >> >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Have to definitely agree with Wonder. After converting a legacy app, the difference is amazing. However, I also learned D2W and believe this best kept secret is still the best weapon out there and as such should be documented. I don't think I will ever do an app without D2W again especially with the Modern versions. And to create an app with it would document everything else anyway. Regards, James On Jun 8, 2012, at 10:07 AM, arosenzw...@clinworx.com wrote: > Hi Markus, > > Good for you! Thank you for even thinking about this. > > You ask what you should say about WOnder? I'd recommend the following: > > 1) Defining what the project is and some history > > 2) Show how to integrate it in your app, the pre-requisites. > > 3) Leave it at that. > > You kind of have to do this. When you are using the modern tools new users > can make either a "pure Apple" app or a "WOnder App" and they'll be curious. > You should let them know that WOnder opens the doors to Web 2.0 and much more > (fixing bugs and issues is also a big part that you get for free). Suggest > they use it always, even if they don't consciously use pieces from it. As > they tackle tough problems remind them "Don't forget to dig through the > WOnder treasure trove and ask questions on the list. More than likely, an > answer to your problem already awaits!" > > Cheers, > -- Aaron ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james%40jimijon.com > > This email sent to ja...@jimijon.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
I felt left out. :P +1 Long live WOnder! On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: > +1. > > On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > >> +1 >> >> There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. >> >> >> On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: >> >>> +1 >>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca >>> >>> ___ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>> >>> This email sent to ch...@global-village.net >> >> -- >> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >> >> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >> http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kelleherk%40gmail.com >> >> This email sent to kelleh...@gmail.com > > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lon.varscsak%40gmail.com > > This email sent to lon.varsc...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1. On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > +1 > > There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. > > > On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > >> +1 >> >>> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? >>> >>> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. >>> ___ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>> >>> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca >> >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >> >> This email sent to ch...@global-village.net > > -- > Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development > > Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall > knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. > http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects > > > > > > > > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kelleherk%40gmail.com > > This email sent to kelleh...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
We just need people to finish this:
http://wiki.wocommunity.org/display/WO/Learning+WebObjects+-+the+curriculum
> Hi Markus,
>
> Great idea! Videos are fine, but they scatter the content all over the place
> and you can't find things you need to reference quickly. I feel the same
> about ERD2W, the content is now all there in the recent WOWODC videos, but
> now a document is needed to tie it all together.
>
> See below:
>
> On 2012-06-08, at 5:48 AM, Markus Ruggiero wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world
>> needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your
>> input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do
>> this
>>
>> I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project
>> work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD
>> (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently
>> redoing a course book "Intro to OO Programming with Java". The courses I
>> teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer
>> with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and
>> consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules
>> and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship
>> in my company.
>> Last year I had the opportunity to do a module "OO-Multiuser Application
>> with Relational Database". The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations
>> but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they
>> want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational
>> mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a
>> set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around
>> 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with
>> course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have
>> something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same
>> course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be
>> assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would
>> have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this
>> course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style
>> that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a
>> course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it
>> is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be
>> done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There
>> are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular
>> module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two
>> versions will share more than 80 percent of the content.
>>
>> Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an
>> e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print
>> (but that will be the school's thing do do).
>>
>> I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1
>> course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that
>> all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to
>> be important? WOnder?
>
> Definitely Wonder. I wouldn't want to start a new project without knowledge
> of:
>
> 1. Prototypes
> 2. Migrations
> 3. EOGenerate and the related templates
>
> so many amazing and time-saving things in here now like:
> .create
> .fetchSpec
> .fetchAll
> .fetchRequired
> .addTo
> .removeFrom
>
> 4. Importance of properties (setting database connection dictionary, for
> example)
>
> Greatly simplifying some of the old convoluted things for a beginner might be:
>
> ERXKey
> ERXQ (qualifying)
> EOQualifier qualifier = ERXQ.and(ERXQ.equals("name", "Mike"),
> ERXQ.isTrue("admin"));
> ERXS (sorting)
> Person.fetchSpec().qualify(Person.NAME.is("Mike")).sort(Person.NAME.asc()).fetchObjects();
>
> David
>
>> Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the
>> beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2
>> course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as
>> (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST,
>> Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to
>> the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development
>> environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that
>> one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one
>> must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment.
>>
>> Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies
>> or mail them directly to me.
>>
>> Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Mo
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Hi Markus,
Great idea! Videos are fine, but they scatter the content all over the place
and you can't find things you need to reference quickly. I feel the same about
ERD2W, the content is now all there in the recent WOWODC videos, but now a
document is needed to tie it all together.
See below:
On 2012-06-08, at 5:48 AM, Markus Ruggiero wrote:
> Folks,
>
> after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs
> another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But
> first let me give some background on why I would do this
>
> I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project
> work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD
> (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing
> a course book "Intro to OO Programming with Java". The courses I teach are
> part of the formal training to become an application developer with an
> official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists
> of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can
> offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my
> company.
> Last year I had the opportunity to do a module "OO-Multiuser Application with
> Relational Database". The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but
> the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want.
> I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping
> is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the
> old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The
> students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course
> material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something
> like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will
> be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course
> again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper
> course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course
> book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading
> (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal
> training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and
> preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German
> but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific
> requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be
> left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more
> than 80 percent of the content.
>
> Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an
> e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print
> (but that will be the school's thing do do).
>
> I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1
> course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that
> all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to
> be important? WOnder?
Definitely Wonder. I wouldn't want to start a new project without knowledge of:
1. Prototypes
2. Migrations
3. EOGenerate and the related templates
so many amazing and time-saving things in here now like:
.create
.fetchSpec
.fetchAll
.fetchRequired
.addTo
.removeFrom
4. Importance of properties (setting database connection dictionary, for
example)
Greatly simplifying some of the old convoluted things for a beginner might be:
ERXKey
ERXQ (qualifying)
EOQualifier qualifier = ERXQ.and(ERXQ.equals("name", "Mike"),
ERXQ.isTrue("admin"));
ERXS (sorting)
Person.fetchSpec().qualify(Person.NAME.is("Mike")).sort(Person.NAME.asc()).fetchObjects();
David
> Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the
> beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2
> course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as
> (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax
> etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the
> modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development
> environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one
> must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must
> learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment.
>
> Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or
> mail them directly to me.
>
> Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal
>
> ---markus---
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscript
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1 There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > +1 > >> Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? >> >> IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >> >> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net > > This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1 > Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? > > IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > > This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Hi Markus, Good for you! Thank you for even thinking about this. You ask what you should say about WOnder? I'd recommend the following: 1) Defining what the project is and some history 2) Show how to integrate it in your app, the pre-requisites. 3) Leave it at that. You kind of have to do this. When you are using the modern tools new users can make either a "pure Apple" app or a "WOnder App" and they'll be curious. You should let them know that WOnder opens the doors to Web 2.0 and much more (fixing bugs and issues is also a big part that you get for free). Suggest they use it always, even if they don't consciously use pieces from it. As they tackle tough problems remind them "Don't forget to dig through the WOnder treasure trove and ask questions on the list. More than likely, an answer to your problem already awaits!" Cheers, -- Aaron ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
I strongly suggest that you wait after WOWODC before making a decision. We are going to record the Boot Camp (hopefully we will not have recording problems) and Paul is covering what you want to cover too. You should talk to him at WOWODC. > Folks, > > after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs > another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But > first let me give some background on why I would do this > > I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project > work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD > (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing > a course book "Intro to OO Programming with Java". The courses I teach are > part of the formal training to become an application developer with an > official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists > of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can > offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my > company. > Last year I had the opportunity to do a module "OO-Multiuser Application with > Relational Database". The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but > the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. > I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping > is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the > old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The > students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course > material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something > like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will > be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course > again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper > course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course > book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading > (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal > training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and > preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German > but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific > requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be > left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more > than 80 percent of the content. > > Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an > e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print > (but that will be the school's thing do do). > > I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 > course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that > all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to > be important? WOnder? Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is > clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey > there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). > E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither > should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and > adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up > the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license > states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not > state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. > > Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or > mail them directly to me. > > Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal > > ---markus--- > > > > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > > This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
I am going to write a WO book
Folks, after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do this I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing a course book "Intro to OO Programming with Java". The courses I teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my company. Last year I had the opportunity to do a module "OO-Multiuser Application with Relational Database". The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more than 80 percent of the content. Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print (but that will be the school's thing do do). I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to be important? WOnder? Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or mail them directly to me. Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal ---markus--- ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
