Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
Hoi, Obviously I know. My point is that when we talk about diversity, it is because it was recognised as a problem ... When papers of 2011 are quoted in 2015 when diversity is mentioned, it does not give us a clue if the problem is as bad, worse or very much improved. Consequently it is very much beside the point. Thanks, GerardM On 15 February 2015 at 07:48, wrote: > Hi GerardM, > > why not have a guess ;-) > > Claudia > -- Original Message --- > From:Gerard Meijssen > To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities l...@lists.wikimedia.org> > Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:42:08 +0100 > Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: > [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > Hoi, > > What year are we living ? > > Thanks, > > GerardM > > > > On 14 February 2015 at 17:24, > > wrote: > > > > > my2cents re figures on percentages (... in a gender binary paradigm), > > > well... > > > > > > I'd suggest to take into account User:Pundit's thoughtful > considerations, > > > > > > author of: Jemielniak, Dariusz (2014), Common knowledge? An > ethnography > > > of Wikipedia, Stanford University Press, pp. 14-15 > > > > > > Dariusz Jemielniak writes: > > > "According to Wikipedia Editors Study, published in 2011, 91 percent of > > > all Wikipedia editors are male ([reference to a study of 2011] This > figure > > > may not be accurate, since it is based on a voluntary online survey > > > advertised to 31,699 registered users and resulting on 5,073 complete > and > > > valid responses [...] it is possible that male editors are more likely > to > > > respond than female editors. Similarly, a study of self-declarations of > > > gender showing only 16 percent are female editors (Lam et al. 2011) > may be > > > distorted, since more females may choose not to reveal their gender in > a > > > community perceived as male dominated." > > > > > > additionally, asserting status and flaunting seniority (also described > > > by Jemielniak at the end of the paragraph previous to the one quoted > above) > > > is generally perceived to be a commonly employed trick to resist any > > > changes; > > > > > > and, last but not least, one might argue that the group perceived as > > > "in power" might feel to find strongly unbalanced outcomes most > rewarding, > > > and hence might tend to publish them as widely as possible and not > least > > > quote from them persistently, too... > > > > > > any rebuttals from stats experts here? > > > > > > best, > > > Claudia > > > koltzenb...@w4w.net > > > My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 > > > > > > -- Original Message --- > > > From:Jane Darnell > > > To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities > > l...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:49:29 +0100 > > > Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > > > > > Forwarding here in case anyone has information > > > > that could benefit Yana > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > > > From: Jane Darnell > > > > Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways > > > > to increase the participation of women within > > > > Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > > > > In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an > > > > external party to conduct a survey and the results > > > > (translated to English) are here: > > > > https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pd > > > f > > > > > > > > The study was split into two parts; one on the > > > > contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. > > > > Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), > > > > contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% > > > > would not say (page 26) > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Yana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > Gendergap mailing list > > > > > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, > > > please > > > > > visit: > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > > > > > > --- End of Original Message --- > > > > > > ___ > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > > > > --- End of Original Message --- > > > ___ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/m
Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
Hi GerardM, why not have a guess ;-) Claudia -- Original Message --- From:Gerard Meijssen To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:42:08 +0100 Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > Hoi, > What year are we living ? > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 14 February 2015 at 17:24, > wrote: > > > my2cents re figures on percentages (... in a gender binary paradigm), > > well... > > > > I'd suggest to take into account User:Pundit's thoughtful considerations, > > > > author of: Jemielniak, Dariusz (2014), Common knowledge? An ethnography > > of Wikipedia, Stanford University Press, pp. 14-15 > > > > Dariusz Jemielniak writes: > > "According to Wikipedia Editors Study, published in 2011, 91 percent of > > all Wikipedia editors are male ([reference to a study of 2011] This figure > > may not be accurate, since it is based on a voluntary online survey > > advertised to 31,699 registered users and resulting on 5,073 complete and > > valid responses [...] it is possible that male editors are more likely to > > respond than female editors. Similarly, a study of self-declarations of > > gender showing only 16 percent are female editors (Lam et al. 2011) may be > > distorted, since more females may choose not to reveal their gender in a > > community perceived as male dominated." > > > > additionally, asserting status and flaunting seniority (also described > > by Jemielniak at the end of the paragraph previous to the one quoted above) > > is generally perceived to be a commonly employed trick to resist any > > changes; > > > > and, last but not least, one might argue that the group perceived as > > "in power" might feel to find strongly unbalanced outcomes most rewarding, > > and hence might tend to publish them as widely as possible and not least > > quote from them persistently, too... > > > > any rebuttals from stats experts here? > > > > best, > > Claudia > > koltzenb...@w4w.net > > My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 > > > > -- Original Message --- > > From:Jane Darnell > > To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities > l...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:49:29 +0100 > > Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > > > Forwarding here in case anyone has information > > > that could benefit Yana > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > > From: Jane Darnell > > > Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways > > > to increase the participation of women within > > > Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > > In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an > > > external party to conduct a survey and the results > > > (translated to English) are here: > > https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pd > > f > > > > > > The study was split into two parts; one on the > > > contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. > > > Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), > > > contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% > > > would not say (page 26) > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yana > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Gendergap mailing list > > > > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, > > please > > > > visit: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > > > > --- End of Original Message --- > > > > ___ > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > --- End of Original Message --- ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
Mako Hill and Aaron Shaw wrote a paper which combined a 2008 WMF survey with Pew Research to try to find a less biased estimation of the Wikipedia gender gap. Their paper is titled "The Wikipedia Gender Gap Revisited: Characterizing Survey Response Bias with Propensity Score Estimation", and is at http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065782#pone-0065782-t002 . It's not a perfect fit for eliminating the bias to participate in editor surveys, but it's a step toward a more realistic value for the gender gap (although it's still pretty bleak - with only 16% of gobal editors estimated to be female). Best, Jeremy On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > What year are we living ? > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 14 February 2015 at 17:24, wrote: > >> my2cents re figures on percentages (... in a gender binary paradigm), >> well... >> >> I'd suggest to take into account User:Pundit's thoughtful considerations, >> >> author of: Jemielniak, Dariusz (2014), Common knowledge? An ethnography >> of Wikipedia, Stanford University Press, pp. 14-15 >> >> Dariusz Jemielniak writes: >> "According to Wikipedia Editors Study, published in 2011, 91 percent of >> all Wikipedia editors are male ([reference to a study of 2011] This figure >> may not be accurate, since it is based on a voluntary online survey >> advertised to 31,699 registered users and resulting on 5,073 complete and >> valid responses [...] it is possible that male editors are more likely to >> respond than female editors. Similarly, a study of self-declarations of >> gender showing only 16 percent are female editors (Lam et al. 2011) may be >> distorted, since more females may choose not to reveal their gender in a >> community perceived as male dominated." >> >> additionally, asserting status and flaunting seniority (also described >> by Jemielniak at the end of the paragraph previous to the one quoted above) >> is generally perceived to be a commonly employed trick to resist any >> changes; >> >> and, last but not least, one might argue that the group perceived as >> "in power" might feel to find strongly unbalanced outcomes most rewarding, >> and hence might tend to publish them as widely as possible and not least >> quote from them persistently, too... >> >> any rebuttals from stats experts here? >> >> best, >> Claudia >> koltzenb...@w4w.net >> My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 >> >> -- Original Message --- >> From:Jane Darnell >> To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities > l...@lists.wikimedia.org> >> Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:49:29 +0100 >> Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers >> >> > Forwarding here in case anyone has information >> > that could benefit Yana >> > -- Forwarded message -- >> > From: Jane Darnell >> > Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers >> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways >> > to increase the participation of women within >> > Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> >> > >> > In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an >> > external party to conduct a survey and the results >> > (translated to English) are here: >> >> https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pd >> f >> > >> > The study was split into two parts; one on the >> > contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. >> > Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), >> > contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% >> > would not say (page 26) >> > >> > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi all, >> > > >> > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Yana >> > > >> > > >> > > ___ >> > > Gendergap mailing list >> > > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >> please >> > > visit: >> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > >> --- End of Original Message --- >> >> ___ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> >> > > ___ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
Hoi, What year are we living ? Thanks, GerardM On 14 February 2015 at 17:24, wrote: > my2cents re figures on percentages (... in a gender binary paradigm), > well... > > I'd suggest to take into account User:Pundit's thoughtful considerations, > > author of: Jemielniak, Dariusz (2014), Common knowledge? An ethnography > of Wikipedia, Stanford University Press, pp. 14-15 > > Dariusz Jemielniak writes: > "According to Wikipedia Editors Study, published in 2011, 91 percent of > all Wikipedia editors are male ([reference to a study of 2011] This figure > may not be accurate, since it is based on a voluntary online survey > advertised to 31,699 registered users and resulting on 5,073 complete and > valid responses [...] it is possible that male editors are more likely to > respond than female editors. Similarly, a study of self-declarations of > gender showing only 16 percent are female editors (Lam et al. 2011) may be > distorted, since more females may choose not to reveal their gender in a > community perceived as male dominated." > > additionally, asserting status and flaunting seniority (also described > by Jemielniak at the end of the paragraph previous to the one quoted above) > is generally perceived to be a commonly employed trick to resist any > changes; > > and, last but not least, one might argue that the group perceived as > "in power" might feel to find strongly unbalanced outcomes most rewarding, > and hence might tend to publish them as widely as possible and not least > quote from them persistently, too... > > any rebuttals from stats experts here? > > best, > Claudia > koltzenb...@w4w.net > My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 > > -- Original Message --- > From:Jane Darnell > To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities l...@lists.wikimedia.org> > Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:49:29 +0100 > Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > > Forwarding here in case anyone has information > > that could benefit Yana > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: Jane Darnell > > Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM > > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways > > to increase the participation of women within > > Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an > > external party to conduct a survey and the results > > (translated to English) are here: > https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pd > f > > > > The study was split into two parts; one on the > > contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. > > Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), > > contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% > > would not say (page 26) > > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder > > wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yana > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Gendergap mailing list > > > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, > please > > > visit: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > > --- End of Original Message --- > > ___ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
[Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
my2cents re figures on percentages (... in a gender binary paradigm), well... I'd suggest to take into account User:Pundit's thoughtful considerations, author of: Jemielniak, Dariusz (2014), Common knowledge? An ethnography of Wikipedia, Stanford University Press, pp. 14-15 Dariusz Jemielniak writes: "According to Wikipedia Editors Study, published in 2011, 91 percent of all Wikipedia editors are male ([reference to a study of 2011] This figure may not be accurate, since it is based on a voluntary online survey advertised to 31,699 registered users and resulting on 5,073 complete and valid responses [...] it is possible that male editors are more likely to respond than female editors. Similarly, a study of self-declarations of gender showing only 16 percent are female editors (Lam et al. 2011) may be distorted, since more females may choose not to reveal their gender in a community perceived as male dominated." additionally, asserting status and flaunting seniority (also described by Jemielniak at the end of the paragraph previous to the one quoted above) is generally perceived to be a commonly employed trick to resist any changes; and, last but not least, one might argue that the group perceived as "in power" might feel to find strongly unbalanced outcomes most rewarding, and hence might tend to publish them as widely as possible and not least quote from them persistently, too... any rebuttals from stats experts here? best, Claudia koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 -- Original Message --- From:Jane Darnell To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities Sent:Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:49:29 +0100 Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > Forwarding here in case anyone has information > that could benefit Yana > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Jane Darnell > Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways > to increase the participation of women within > Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an > external party to conduct a survey and the results > (translated to English) are here: https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pd f > > The study was split into two parts; one on the > contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. > Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), > contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% > would not say (page 26) > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? > > > > Thanks, > > Yana > > > > > > ___ > > Gendergap mailing list > > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > --- End of Original Message --- ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
[Wiki-research-l] Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
Forwarding here in case anyone has information that could benefit Yana -- Forwarded message -- From: Jane Darnell Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation of women within Wikimedia projects." < gender...@lists.wikimedia.org> In 2013 the Dutch Wikimedia chapter hired an external party to conduct a survey and the results (translated to English) are here: https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Motivaction_report_translation_v02.pdf The study was split into two parts; one on the contributors and one on the "users", aka readers. Users were 50/50 male female (page 51), contributors were 88% male, 6% female, and 6% would not say (page 26) On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Yana Welinder wrote: > Hi all, > > What are some good studies of the gender of Wikipedia readers? > > Thanks, > Yana > > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > gender...@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
