Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Rainer Rillke]

Oh cool, you offer free French courses? Did I understand the e-Mail
correctly?

-- Rillke

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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[WereSpielChequers]

If I may make one suggestion, have a look at people's language preferences in 
the wikis concerned. My assumption is that if you know two languages well 
enough to translate between them you are unlikely to have opted for a different 
language for system messages. I have edits in lots of different languages, but 
I only understand English and in most of the wikis where I have any edits I 
have set my language preference to English.

I don't object to receiving the email, but it was completely wasted on me. 

Regards

Jonathan 


> On 26 Jun 2015, at 19:40, Leila Zia  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all 
> in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in 
> advance.
> 
> 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein :
>> This is such a delightful experience.  Whoever is working on translation 
>> interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed.  
> 
> Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we 
> would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes 
> us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us 
> a comment on the talk page. 
> 
> The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team.  You can read 
> more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if 
> it's repetitive.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart  
>> wrote:
>> [...]
>> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at 
>> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see 
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam).
>> 
>> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition 
>> of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by talking 
>> about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of doing). Can 
>> you please stop this immediately?
> 
> I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This 
> is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through 
> the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future 
> research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is 
> over now.
> 
> The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the 
> needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications 
> with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front.
> 
>> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on 
>> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they 
>> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: 
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
> 
> Thank you for this pointer. 
>  
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>> Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others 
>> think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot. Like Sam 
>> I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though 
>> not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and 
>> is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has 
>> to decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that language. I 
>> think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to 
>> *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) 
>> editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb 
>> everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!
> 
> Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving 
> such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the 
> following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing 
> content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The 
> editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive 
> should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back editors' 
> expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor think a 
> recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to collect that 
> information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the algorithm learn. 
> This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far down) for the 
> algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and community. 
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske  
>> wrote:
>> I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor 
>> edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger?
>> (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify 
>> the language...)
>  
> I'am copying from here:
> 
> We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations 

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Nathan]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Juergen Fenn  wrote:

> Dear Leila,
>
> thank you for elaborating how this mailing came about.
>
> I would like to address the ethical aspect of your project.
>
> In saying
>
> > "For the purposes of this research, we are
> > taking the following approach: we take a
> > more global approach to identify missing
> > content, rank them by their importance,
> > and recommend them to editors. The
> > editor should make the final call
> > whether the recommendation they
> > receive should go to the destination
> > language."
>
> you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and
> actually translate an article you have suggested.
>
> However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia Foundation
> interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been accepted that
> the Foundation will not care about content creation, except for handling
> DMCA takedown requests as office actions.
>
> It still has to be addressed whether the Foundation may solicit the
> creation of content, and if so, in which manner? I gather from the
> discussion on German Wikipedia that most experienced editors think no. This
> is a volunteering project, and everyone taking part in it decides for
> himself what he would like to do. We have never had suggestions like this.
> Indeed, I think this is a delicate matter concerning the relation between
> the Community and the Foundation that should be dealt with in the first
> place. Which roles do we play? Or, which roles do you change, or rather
> play with? when sending out such a suggestion?
>
> And, of course, an opt-in for such experiments would be fine. I think a
> lot of people would even be inclined to subscribe to such a list because
> after all we are interested in what you are doing, aren't we? ;)
>
> Best regards,
> Jürgen.


I see no reason why anyone should be restricted from good faith
solicitations to add content. I particularly do not see why the WMF
wouldn't be permitted to do so; obviously the volume and quality of content
available across all projects is a core concern of the WMF. Soliciting the
creation of content - i.e. identifying gaps and asking volunteers to pitch
in - is not the same thing as "managing" content on the projects
themselves. Any such concerns are confusing the core mission of the WMF
with the legal particulars of Section 230 safe harbor.
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Samuel Klein]

Leila - great responses, thank you.

On Jun 26, 2015 1:28 PM, "Juergen Fenn"  wrote:
>
> you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and
actually translate an article you have suggested.
>
> However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia
Foundation interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been
accepted that the Foundation will not care about content creation, except
for handling DMCA takedown requests as office actions.

The WMF has cared openly about content creation since at least 2009 when
quality and content metrics, and the breadth and diversity of contributors
(because of its impact on content) were made core strategic goals.

But I think this is a more interesting question here: not 'can (one actor)
solicit creation', but 'how can one part of the community solicit creation
at large scale'.

Yes, the WMF is involved with this effort
So is Stanford. But it seems this is closer to people testing the first
bots: it is about building a code and social framework in which anyone
could run an outreach campaign by finding other contributors according to
some metric, and asking them to do tasks according to some other metric.

That is what's primarily at stake here: whether this makes sense and how to
do it well. Then secondarily, who should do it, how often, with what level
of explicit buy-in.

Regards,
Sam
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Juergen Fenn]

Dear Leila,

thank you for elaborating how this mailing came about.

I would like to address the ethical aspect of your project. 

In saying 

> "For the purposes of this research, we are 
> taking the following approach: we take a 
> more global approach to identify missing 
> content, rank them by their importance, 
> and recommend them to editors. The 
> editor should make the final call 
> whether the recommendation they 
> receive should go to the destination 
> language." 

you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and actually 
translate an article you have suggested. 

However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia Foundation 
interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been accepted that the 
Foundation will not care about content creation, except for handling DMCA 
takedown requests as office actions. 

It still has to be addressed whether the Foundation may solicit the creation of 
content, and if so, in which manner? I gather from the discussion on German 
Wikipedia that most experienced editors think no. This is a volunteering 
project, and everyone taking part in it decides for himself what he would like 
to do. We have never had suggestions like this. Indeed, I think this is a 
delicate matter concerning the relation between the Community and the 
Foundation that should be dealt with in the first place. Which roles do we 
play? Or, which roles do you change, or rather play with? when sending out such 
a suggestion?

And, of course, an opt-in for such experiments would be fine. I think a lot of 
people would even be inclined to subscribe to such a list because after all we 
are interested in what you are doing, aren't we? ;)

Best regards,
Jürgen.

Am 26.06.2015 um 20:40 schrieb Leila Zia :

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all 
> in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in 
> advance.
> 
> 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein :
> This is such a delightful experience.  Whoever is working on translation 
> interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed.  
> 
> Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we 
> would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes 
> us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us 
> a comment on the talk page. 
> 
> The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team.  You can read 
> more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if 
> it's repetitive.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart  wrote:
> [...]
> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at all*. 
> This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see 
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam).
> 
> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition 
> of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by talking 
> about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of doing). Can you 
> please stop this immediately?
> 
> I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This 
> is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through 
> the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future 
> research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is 
> over now.
> 
> The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the 
> needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications 
> with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front.
> 
> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on 
> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already 
> know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: 
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
> 
> Thank you for this pointer. 
>  
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others 
> think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot. Like Sam I 
> was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not 
> one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in 
> the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to 
> decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that language. I think 
> the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to 
> *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) 
> editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb 
> everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!
> 
> Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Ziko van Dijk]

2015-06-26 20:40 GMT+02:00 Leila Zia :
> Hi everyone,
> the way the algorithm makes the final recommendations is language agnostic

Obviously. :-)


> I'm sorry if the recommendation has disappointed you. As mentioned in the
> recommendation email, you will be in one of the two groups: those who
> receive random but still important (with the algorithm's definition of
> importance) recommendations

If my French was better, I had certainly read also the small letters
in the footnote. :-)

No offense taken, but I had liked to see the choice made with more
care. In general, I don't have much trust in automatics making
evaluations about people and their edit behavior. They should always
be supervised by a human being (who would have seen, with two clicks,
that I'm not suitable to translate to French). I am a little bit
stunned by the fact that you seriously considered everyone with "fr"
in a Babel template as francophone. Everywhere I have indicated "fr-1"
- except on my French user page where I describe my handicap in poor
French. :-)

Already in 2009/2010 I have discussed such issues in my
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Ziko/Handbuch-Allgemeines
There is a phenomenon which I call "foreign helpers". They are
Wikipedians who edit significantly in language versions of which they
don't or hardly understand the language. They remove obvious spam or
embed pictures, or they post (English language) announcements at the
"village pump" (forum). This explains why they have edits in many
language versions, and why some small language versions seem to have
quite a lot of editors.

My recommendations:
* Consider only people who indicate at least -3 in BOTH relevant
languages. Actually, the version people translate to should be the
native language.
* They should have at least have 1000 edits in both language versions,
to make sure they feel comfortable and experienced enough in both.
Preferably rather recent edits.
* How do you filter the topics people might be interested in?

Kind regards
Ziko

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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Oliver Keyes]

One concern I would raise with a straight opt-out system is simply
that, as someone who received the email (and was incredibly confused.
I don't speak French and had never heard of the underlying project) I
/am/ interested in research projects. I'm just not interested in
research projects in, well, French. It would be great to have
something more granular than "all emails or no emails"

On 26 June 2015 at 14:40, Leila Zia  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below,
> all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in
> advance.
>
> 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein :
>>
>> This is such a delightful experience.  Whoever is working on translation
>> interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed.
>
>
> Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we
> would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes
> us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us
> a comment on the talk page.
>
> The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team.  You can read
> more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if
> it's repetitive.
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
>> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam).
>>
>> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
>> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
>> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
>> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>
>
> I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one.
> This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available
> through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive
> any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French
> Wikipedia is over now.
>
> The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the
> needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications
> with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front.
>
>> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
>> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
>> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot:
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
>
>
> Thank you for this pointer.
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>>
>> Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what
>> others think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot.
>> Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation
>> (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made
>> myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each
>> Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that
>> language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be
>> open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new
>> (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's
>> wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!
>
>
> Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving
> such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the
> following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing
> content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The
> editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive
> should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back
> editors' expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor
> think a recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to
> collect that information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the
> algorithm learn. This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far
> down) for the algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and
> community.
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske 
> wrote:
>>
>> I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor
>> edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger?
>> (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify
>> the language...)
>
>
> I'am copying from here:
>
> We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations for
> translating from the source to the target language via two methods. The
> first is scraping the target users' User pages for a Babel template that
> indicates that they speak the source langua

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Leila Zia]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below,
all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long
in advance.

2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein :

> This is such a delightful experience.  Whoever is working on translation
> interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed.
>

Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we
would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it
makes us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to
leave us a comment on the talk page

.

The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team.  You can read
more about it here ,
though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if it's repetitive.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
 wrote:

> [...]
> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam
> ).
>
> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>

I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one.
This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available
through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive
any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French
Wikipedia is over now.

The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the
needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications
with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front.

FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index


Thank you for this pointer.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what
> others think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot.
> Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation
> (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made
> myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each
> Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that
> language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and
> be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new
> (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's
> wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!
>

Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving
such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the
following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing
content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The
editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive
should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back
editors' expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor
think a recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to
collect that information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the
algorithm learn. This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far
down) for the algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and
community.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske 
 wrote:

> I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor
> edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger?
> (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify
> the language...)
>

I'am copying from here

:

We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations for
translating from the source to the target language via two methods. The
first is scraping the target users' User pages for a Babel template that
indicates that they speak the source language. The second is selecting
target users who have an account with the same username in the source
language, have made at least one edit in both the source and target
Wikipedias, have made at least one edit in either language within the last
year and have matching email addresses for the two accounts.


Based on the feedback from the test, it is clear tha

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Ziko van Dijk]

Spamming - a question what the e-mail function of WP is ment for.
I was very surprised to get the request though my French is limited, I
hardly ever edited on fr.WP, and the suggested topics have totally nothing
to do with what I do on Wikipedia. So I do think that the mail was not
quite appropriate, and it gives me a not so favorable impression about the
people or initiative behind.
Kind regards
Ziko




Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015 schrieb Jim :

> I strongly disagree that this is spamming. Like others have mentioned, I
> was not offended by the email (though I wasn't "delighted") by it either, I
> think it is a reasonable attempt to encourage editors to put some efforts
> into languages other than English.
>
> Plus it is easy to unsubscribe from the research mailing list.
>
> Jim
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart  > wrote:
>
>> On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote:
>>
>>> This is such a delightful experience.
>>>
>>
>> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
>> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam
>> ).
>>
>> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
>> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
>> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
>> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>>
>> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
>> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
>> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
>> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
>>
>> Emmanuel
>> --
>> Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
>> * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
>> * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
>> * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
>>
>> ___
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> 
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim (tro...@gmail.com )
> "Our love may not always be reciprocated, or
> even appreciated, but love is never wasted"
> - Neal A Maxwell-
>
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Jim]

I strongly disagree that this is spamming. Like others have mentioned, I
was not offended by the email (though I wasn't "delighted") by it either, I
think it is a reasonable attempt to encourage editors to put some efforts
into languages other than English.

Plus it is easy to unsubscribe from the research mailing list.

Jim

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
wrote:

> On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote:
>
>> This is such a delightful experience.
>>
>
> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam
> ).
>
> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>
> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
>
> Emmanuel
> --
> Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
> * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
> * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
> * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
>
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-- 
Jim (tro...@gmail.com)
"Our love may not always be reciprocated, or
even appreciated, but love is never wasted"
- Neal A Maxwell-
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Samuel Klein]

Interesting, I figured I received the mail because of joining translation
projects.   It seems that it's enough to have made a single edit in both
language wikipedias in the last year.

I hope you will do this in both directions for each language pair (both
suggestions from FR --> EN and from EN --> FR.)

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
wrote:
>
> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index


The article eval programs like this one are really good. I agree that's a
good source of prioritization of topics  (whether or not a bot is involved;
bots are people too).  But this system isn't so good at identifying topics
that haven't yet been written.

S
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Magnus Manske]

I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor
edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger?
(well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify
the language...)

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 8:42 AM Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what
> others think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot.
> Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation
> (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made
> myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each
> Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that
> language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and
> be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new
> (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's
> wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
> wrote:
>
>> On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote:
>>
>>> This is such a delightful experience.
>>>
>>
>> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
>> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam
>> ).
>>
>> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
>> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
>> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
>> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>>
>> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
>> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
>> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
>> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
>>
>> Emmanuel
>> --
>> Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
>> * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
>> * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
>> * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
>>
>> ___
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Jane Darnell]

Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others
think I might be interested in, even if the "other" is just a bot. Like Sam
I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though
not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and
is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia
has to decide on their own what is "encyclopedia worthy" in that language.
I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to
*aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual)
editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb
everybody aggressively with translation suggestions!

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart 
wrote:

> On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote:
>
>> This is such a delightful experience.
>>
>
> I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at
> all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam
> ).
>
> AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the
> definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this by
> talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of
> doing). Can you please stop this immediately?
>
> FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on
> Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they
> already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a
> robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index
>
> Emmanuel
> --
> Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
> * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
> * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
> * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
>
> ___
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français

[Emmanuel Engelhart]

On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote:

This is such a delightful experience.


I have received this kind of email too. "No",*this is not delightful at 
all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam).


AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the 
definition of what you do is "spamming" (and please don't answer to this 
by talking about the "opt-out" option, "opt-in" is the respectful way of 
doing). Can you please stop this immediately?


FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on 
Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they 
already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a 
robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index


Emmanuel
--
Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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