Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
Commpartners is one of the popular ones, with lots to offer, but they are getting a little big for their britches charging $5000 setup fee. Nuvio, has a lot of programs that help you cover end user equipment. Primus, is happy wholesaling you a raw business line without PBX replacement/managed service. The list goes on. They all have positives and negatives, mostly related to billing methods. I'm not aware of any of them that embrase the residential phone service business wholesale. I want VOIP strictly for residential, and although they'll do it, they constantly are pushing you to promote/sell the managed business VOIP PBX services, to consider you a valuable partner, which isn't our focus for VOIP. Early on, there are less choices for Wholesale VOIP providers. However, I think VOIP providers will become a commodity sooner than later, with everyone on a broadcom platform offering the same plans and options. Right now, the wholesale VOIP providers still control the terms. I think Wireless providers on the other hand are the ones that should be able to control the shots eventually. We own the client and our local underserved markets. We get the VOIP providers into needy markets (rural/underserved/mobile) they will never have from DSL and Cable companies. Its my opinion as owners of the conduit to the subscriber we should be charging $5000 grand to accept the partnership not pay it. So we have been holding out for the right wholesale partner that sees our value and embrases the residential MTU and underserved VOIP markets. The clock is clicking though, so if they don't come soon, we will build ourselves. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:38 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play Is there a company that you can buy VoIP service from and then resell it to your customers? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play Anyone got a way to offer triple play via wireless yet? I heard of someone working on a product but no idea if anything has been released yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: 28 December 2005 14:38 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one bill, but it can be one call. Tom DeReggi wrote: Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.5/212 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - VOIP / CommPartners
We deal with a couple of VOIP Providers that know Wireless is the way to go. The ILEC needs to be cut out of ever newly development network for sustainability. On a separate note, I rep CommPartners (CP), Primus and many others. I even have a CP Reseller WISPs can work with. CP's new plan is pricey, mainly because they are learning (like Broadview and others) that most of the VOIP Provider clients sell very few lines. The upfront costs is a barrier to entry. If you spend $5k for set-up and have a commitment to meet, you will be serious about selling VOIP. I'm sure you guys have resellers who sell one circuit a quarter. Happy New Year! News-letter http://www.rad-info.net/newsletters/00n123105.html Thank you. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156 fax 305.675.6494 http://4isps.com Tom DeReggi wrote: Commpartners is one of the popular ones, with lots to offer, but they are getting a little big for their britches charging $5000 setup fee. Nuvio, has a lot of programs that help you cover end user equipment. Primus, is happy wholesaling you a raw business line without PBX replacement/managed service. The list goes on. They all have positives and negatives, mostly related to billing methods. I'm not aware of any of them that embrase the residential phone service business wholesale. I want VOIP strictly for residential, and although they'll do it, they constantly are pushing you to promote/sell the managed business VOIP PBX services, to consider you a valuable partner, which isn't our focus for VOIP. Early on, there are less choices for Wholesale VOIP providers. However, I think VOIP providers will become a commodity sooner than later, with everyone on a broadcom platform offering the same plans and options. Right now, the wholesale VOIP providers still control the terms. I think Wireless providers on the other hand are the ones that should be able to control the shots eventually. We own the client and our local underserved markets. We get the VOIP providers into needy markets (rural/underserved/mobile) they will never have from DSL and Cable companies. Its my opinion as owners of the conduit to the subscriber we should be charging $5000 grand to accept the partnership not pay it. So we have been holding out for the right wholesale partner that sees our value and embrases the residential MTU and underserved VOIP markets. The clock is clicking though, so if they don't come soon, we will build ourselves. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
VoIP (was Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play)
We looked at various VoIP wholesalers and weren't really happy with any of them. Currently, we have a variety of telco circuits including DS3s, PRIs, and dedicated LD DS1s to solve our voice origination and termination needs. It took some time to pull it all together and get right (fax for example), but now we are in a stable situation that is much superior to what folks like Commpartners offers. We are still learning how to play in the rural markets where voice and 911 are still pretty locked up, but at least when it comes to the NFL cities we are all set. Any WISP in such a market is welcome to use us on a wholesale basis with no setup charge and no monthly commits in terms of minute usage. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Commpartners is one of the popular ones, with lots to offer, but they are getting a little big for their britches charging $5000 setup fee. Nuvio, has a lot of programs that help you cover end user equipment. Primus, is happy wholesaling you a raw business line without PBX replacement/managed service. The list goes on. They all have positives and negatives, mostly related to billing methods. I'm not aware of any of them that embrase the residential phone service business wholesale. I want VOIP strictly for residential, and although they'll do it, they constantly are pushing you to promote/sell the managed business VOIP PBX services, to consider you a valuable partner, which isn't our focus for VOIP. Early on, there are less choices for Wholesale VOIP providers. However, I think VOIP providers will become a commodity sooner than later, with everyone on a broadcom platform offering the same plans and options. Right now, the wholesale VOIP providers still control the terms. I think Wireless providers on the other hand are the ones that should be able to control the shots eventually. We own the client and our local underserved markets. We get the VOIP providers into needy markets (rural/underserved/mobile) they will never have from DSL and Cable companies. Its my opinion as owners of the conduit to the subscriber we should be charging $5000 grand to accept the partnership not pay it. So we have been holding out for the right wholesale partner that sees our value and embrases the residential MTU and underserved VOIP markets. The clock is clicking though, so if they don't come soon, we will build ourselves. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:38 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play Is there a company that you can buy VoIP service from and then resell it to your customers? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play Anyone got a way to offer triple play via wireless yet? I heard of someone working on a product but no idea if anything has been released yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: 28 December 2005 14:38 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one bill, but it can be one call. Tom DeReggi wrote: Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.5/212 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
Not all equipment can do it, but at least Cisco APs can. At layer 2 using WDS, you can hand off from 1 AP to another while using VOIP and not lose the connection-it's less than 50 ms. If you want to do layer 3, it'll cost a bunch of money because the WLSM blade is $18,000 for the Catalyst 6500. Cisco just released their Mesh stuff, and it is also supposed to roam cleanly. We are anxiously awaitng our hardware to start testing, but if it works as advertised, it will be quite sweet. The Mesh units use 5.x GHz for backhaul and 2.4 GHz for access. John Matt Liotta wrote: FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is especially important for VoIP and VPN. -Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with fiber John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah but what about the new customer who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv ) Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston, ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts! -B- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
Bob Moldashel wrote: Unfortunately...this is an uphill battle. You need to sell customers on services. DO NOT get into a pricing war with them. You WILL loose Yes..you will wind up with fewer customers. -B- It is not the number of subs, it is the number of PROFITABLE subs that count. Regards, Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one bill, but it can be one call. Tom DeReggi wrote: Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with fiber John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah but what about the new customer who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv ) Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston, ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts! -B- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps$34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 12/27/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is especially important for VoIP and VPN. -Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with fiber John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah but what about the new customer who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv ) Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston, ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts! -B- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
The requirement is for cost to come down. When the cost comes down to the level that we can build the adequate redundancy into our design, it will be a reality to compete. My hope is that GB wireless will get here when it is needed to compete for the market share before FOIS gets it first. Getting market share after the fact is difficult and costly. Travis's point on reliabilty is a good point. Tripple play is going to be the future competitor, and to offer tripple play reliabilty gets WAY more important. Homebrew backyard designed networks are going to become a thing of the past. The industry got away with it with Broadband alone, but tripple play is a new animal. The problem we have is that we can't leverage existing inplace infrastructure like the Telcos and Cable companies. They already have inbound revenue to pay the cost of the infrastructure in place. For them the tripple play is just a slight redesign, and they economies of scale to pay for their migrations and upgrades, and most importantly to use as calateral for their expansion loans. For new player in the WISP world, we don't have that advantage. If we add a radio every mile along a road, we eat the cost of the UPS and electricity every mile down the road as well. Thats hard to eat, when we have to pay cash for it all upfront. So financing/investment sources are going to have to become more easy obtainable to fund the growth. One of the things I liked about GigaBeam was their model to finance the gear through the manufacturer. It takes that limitation out of the equation. OF course if gear ever gets sub $2000, financing will be less of an issue. It will be interesting to see how things develop. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I am not going to debate what the ultimate broadband system architecture is too long because there really is no perfect solution. There are way too many ways of doing things for us to debate it too much. I used to be in the Cable Television industry. In my 10 years in that business I saw several different architectures used to deploy cable television networks. What I am proposing here is no more or less capable of being a solid delivery platform than these other designs I saw in the past. It is simply different. There are more points of failure in what I am proposing than there is in direct fiber runs. That does not mean it is a bad solution. It simply means there are more possible points of failure. The impact of this factor can be minimized if proper design methods are employed. There is no mention here of how deep a cascade would go for these nodes of millimeter wave. We could all get into the specifics of node count, power backup, loop architecture, etc. but the long and short of it is this. If radios are designed and built with low cost, low incidence of failure and cascade counts are kept to a minimum then a very acceptable and practical design can be built in a cost effective way to deliver a triple play solution. The ability to deploy an entire community-wide network with this design in a timely fashion is probably the most attractive factor in this proposed design. I am reasonably certain that a well trained crew could setup an entire small town in just a few days. I really believe that in time you will see millimeter wave radios used as a way of delivering high bandwidth for multiple service offerings in WISP operations. Is it the broadband architecture? I doubt it. I also doubt there is a perfect architecture out there. Regardless I am certain what I am proposing is very capable of being an effective platform for triple play deployment. Until there are low-cost reliable CMOS based millimeter wave radios this discussion is academic. Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: John, I believe there is such a thing coming, and that it may fit in some applications. But I can't see carrying data, VoIP and TVIP across a wireless backbone that is all fed from the radio next to it. Unless you are going to run a complete mesh type network (which would be hard with radios that only reach a few hundred feet), then each radio is dependant on the upstream radio. So to go around a neighborhood with 100 homes, you could be talking 20-30 radios, plus the WiMAX or Wifi access points, etc. You've heard the 12 days of Christmas song that says One light goes out they all go out, right? :) We currently have a fully looped fiber ring around our city. We currently have about 50 customer drops, and we run Cisco switches with Spanning-Tree at 1gbps speeds. Even at this level, there are still problems. Fiber outages, switches that fail, long term power outages (8+ hours) at customer locations
RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
Anyone got a way to offer triple play via wireless yet? I heard of someone working on a product but no idea if anything has been released yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: 28 December 2005 14:38 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one bill, but it can be one call. Tom DeReggi wrote: Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play - Consumers
One bill. Yeah, some people like it. But if the combined services are less money, you can make a case for 2 bills. How can you make it easier for them to pay the bill??? Have you seen how hard VZ makes e-bill You need to market to your own customers. Stay in front of them. Let them know what else you sell. How do you increase ARPU or Referrals unless you are creatively in front of your clients??? On the flip side, if you don't want to do it, bring in a Strategic Partner. We specialize in great Networks and Internet; DISH is great at TV. Together you get the best package. If it is a MDU, talk to SMS about doing triple-play there. (Or call me). If you want to compete in Metros, you need to have a Marketing Plan and work it every day. You have to become a niche player or find a new way to make people look at the Internet. I have some ideas in every news-letter (www.rad-info.net/newsletters/). You don't have so many opportunities that you can let them go without a fight. Happy New Year! Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. Tom DeReggi wrote: One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs, I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new service. A common response is, we loved your service and support, and the Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my business with a price I could not turn down. Learning after the fact of their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a Double play that could offer near the same value proposition. I then try to get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, but the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill, and it just makes it easy. So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them. My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by saving money. In order to keep residential business, it does need consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer, attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without me knowing it is even happening. We can be competitive and compete on price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets, we are all going to have to offer double or triple play. I don't want to be a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is making me change my business model. I either join the current trends, or I lose clients. The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be able to offer enough value to enough people to justify that percentage of the population to chose me over the competition and choices they have. If that can be done, my company has value, and survivabilty regardless of what competition comes to town. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down by a few Touchdowns. Dustin Jurman President Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 N. Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs, I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new service. A common response is, we loved your service and support, and the Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my business with a price I could not turn down. Learning after the fact of their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a Double play that could offer near the same value proposition. I then try to get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, but the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill, and it just makes it easy. So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them. My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by saving money. In order to keep residential business, it does need consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer, attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without me knowing it is even happening. We can be competitive and compete on price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets, we are all going to have to offer double or triple play. I don't want to be a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is making me change my business model. I either join the current trends, or I lose clients. The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be able to offer enough value to enough people to justify that percentage of the population to chose me over the competition and choices they have. If that can be done, my company has value, and survivabilty regardless of what competition comes to town. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one bill, but it can be one call. Tom DeReggi wrote: Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
dustin jurman wrote: Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down by a few Touchdowns. Dustin Jurman President Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 N. Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey Dustin, Do you do wireless down there Your website says nothing about it. Just fiber and DSL Just wondering... -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play
No, not at all. I vented a frustration that is common in the residential market place. There is still a large resisntential population that feels differently. Residential is the most profitable part of our business today. It keeps our techncians busy, without delays from landlords. We don't run away from competition, we face it, and identify how to combat it. lower your residential prices The latest is COX giving broadband away for free for 6 month, if they buy basic cable for the next 6 months at $20 a mon. (Of course the rate raises after 6 months drastically.) We can't combat many of them with VOIP, because they canned their phones all togeather in favor of just their cell phone plans (free evening and phone to phone calling on net.). But we can wait out the price war. A certain percentage will keep service for quality support. It costs us nothing for our infrastructure to exist in place. We need the cell sites live anyway, to serve the business customers. We do all our own wireless transport so no reocurring fees need to go out to telco carriers. When th consumers get frustrated with Cable, they always come back, and then we hit them with a second install fee :-). We just loose the revenue for six months for a portion of them :-( We still stand tall as the premium provider of quality performance and service. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: dustin jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down by a few Touchdowns. Dustin Jurman President Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 N. Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs, I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new service. A common response is, we loved your service and support, and the Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my business with a price I could not turn down. Learning after the fact of their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a Double play that could offer near the same value proposition. I then try to get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, but the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill, and it just makes it easy. So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them. My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by saving money. In order to keep residential business, it does need consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer, attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without me knowing it is even happening. We can be competitive and compete on price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets, we are all going to have to offer double or triple play. I don't want to be a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is making me change my business model. I either join the current trends, or I lose clients. The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be able to offer enough value to enough
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (mobility and roaming)
Hello, There was some open-source work done that allowed generic 802.11 clients to roam around on a wireless network without breaking stateful/session-orientated connections. It was called Transparent Mobility, and there is code available on the SF site below. I believe it was actually put into practice at SOWN, but there doesn't appear to have been any additional recent activity on the project. Nonetheless it was an interesting way to solve the problem of not having built-in roaming capabilities in 802.11. The description: --- About Transparent Mobile IP This project aims to provide IP mobility across multiple networks, ensuring that all active TCP sessions will be maintained upon migration. No client side software or alteration to IP stack is required. The network itself changes to provide connectivity. --- http://www.slyware.com/projects_tmip.shtml http://www.sown.org.uk/index.php/TransparentMobility http://sourceforge.net/projects/tmip At 03:32 PM 12/28/2005 -0500, you wrote: Matt, Great point, that many forget. For the record, there were several unlicensed products that ahve been marketed to mobility, such as Alvarion 900Mhz. Does Alvarion 900 mobile product llow subscribers to maintain state, when switching APs? My understanding is that a vehichle in motion (at not to high a speed) could successfully use the service, however, it would infact be a dirty copnnection break when switching APs, meaning lossing connection with one, and then searching for the second after connection lsot to first. Is that correct, Alvarion people? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is especially important for VoIP and VPN. -Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with fiber John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah but what about the new customer who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv ) Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston, ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts! -B- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
[WISPA] verizon fios pricing
Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway? If you keep control over p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway? Anyone got numbers? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts! -B- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in protects you :) Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as well and start feeding it into wireless shtuff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my system but allow some bursts) other traffic is not limited But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway? If you keep control over p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway? Anyone got numbers? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah but what about the new customer who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv ) Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston, ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc Dan Unfortunately you're in Boston but..Maybe its time to change your business plan. Maybe you should be selling to business only, providing large bandwidth to end users that will pay the price. We don't have a customer here in NY that pays less than $99 month and I have Cablevision, Lightpath, Open Access, Keyspan, Verizon, etc, etc and we still have plenty of customers to keep us busy. Why?? Becasue we have installation in 3 days or less and we respond to service requests usually within the hour. NO ONE does that. I repeat...NO ONE. Could I sell $29.99 residential service tomorrow??? No freakin' way. I would beat my head against the wall. But I don't like head trauma so I don't do that. May I need to change things in the future??? Sure...But for right now I am all set.. Good Luck. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
Bob made a good point regarding contracts. Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the time FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most competitive. My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is evolving. Its jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had for pennies. Maybe not this year, but sooner or later it will. When FIOS is a real threat to Wireless, thats when the GB wireless manufacturers will start to lower their prices, because it is what they'll need to do to sell gear. Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building allows for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB broadband, you can do so without delay from landlords. Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't be able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:01 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Right. Unless there's a technology upgrade soon in the 2 / 5 gig areas, we're going to need something else to compete... I have a 20 meg feed right now, and it's about 1.5 meg average... But to no customers can I deliver more than 10 meg to without a fortune in hardware -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I can get a 100Mbps or 200Mbps feed today at very good pricing (what I would pay for a T1 5 years ago :-)) but the problem I see it is delivering 15+Mbps in a PtMP setup -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:28 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in protects you :) Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as well and start feeding it into wireless shtuff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my system but allow some bursts) other traffic is not limited But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway? If you keep control over p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway? Anyone got numbers? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
I have been saying for YEARS on these lists that you can NOT compete on price... you have to compete on service and customer support. Period. We currently charge $10 per month more than CableOne. They are selling an up to 3meg connection for $29.95. I currently sell a 512k connection for $40 per month (guaranteed 512k 24x7), and we are doing 80-100 installs per month. Most people are going up to the 1meg for $50 per month even. But we offer local support, 10 email accounts, real static IP, a real office they can visit, and we ALWAYS answer the phone with a live person. :) Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Bob made a good point regarding contracts. Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the time FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most competitive. My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is evolving. Its jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had for pennies. Maybe not this year, but sooner or later it will. When FIOS is a real threat to Wireless, thats when the GB wireless manufacturers will start to lower their prices, because it is what they'll need to do to sell gear. Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building allows for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB broadband, you can do so without delay from landlords. Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't be able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:01 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Right. Unless there's a technology upgrade soon in the 2 / 5 gig areas, we're going to need something else to compete... I have a 20 meg feed right now, and it's about 1.5 meg average... But to no customers can I deliver more than 10 meg to without a fortune in hardware -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I can get a 100Mbps or 200Mbps feed today at very good pricing (what I would pay for a T1 5 years ago :-)) but the problem I see it is delivering 15+Mbps in a PtMP setup -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:28 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in protects you :) Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as well and start feeding it into wireless shtuff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my system but allow some bursts) other traffic is not limited But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway? If you keep control over p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway? Anyone got numbers? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
Tom DeReggi wrote: Bob made a good point regarding contracts. Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the time FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most competitive. My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is evolving. Its jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had for pennies. Maybe not this year, but sooner or later it will. When FIOS is a real threat to Wireless, thats when the GB wireless manufacturers will start to lower their prices, because it is what they'll need to do to sell gear. Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building allows for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB broadband, you can do so without delay from landlords. Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE. IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't be able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband One more thing to add.Give some value to signing a contract. In other words...make the install price $249 instead of $599 if you sign a 2 year contract. Most judges like to see that the defendants (as I call them) have received some sort of compensation for signing the contract. This gives the contract some real legal worth. And don't let people out of their contract for anything! They signed, they got cheap install. You held up your end of the deal..now they need to hold up theres -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
LOL. Because I still enjoy coming to work each day and I'm making a good living... and I get to do what I want from replacing bad radios on top of 9,000ft mountains to changing out light bulbs (literally)... ;) Of course, there are days that aren't so good Christmas Eve I had to go clean ice off the dish that's at 9,000ft elevation... 5 hours total time and then Christmas Day I got to go replace a failed Intel ethernet switch on a different mountaintop repeater... 6 hours total time... but all in all, it's still a fun job... :) Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: I have been saying for YEARS on these lists that you can NOT compete on price... you have to compete on service and customer support. Period. We currently charge $10 per month more than CableOne. They are selling an up to 3meg connection for $29.95. I currently sell a 512k connection for $40 per month (guaranteed 512k 24x7), and we are doing 80-100 installs per month. Most people are going up to the 1meg for $50 per month even. But we offer local support, 10 email accounts, real static IP, a real office they can visit, and we ALWAYS answer the phone with a live person. :) Travis Microserv -B- --waiting for Travis to retire any day now... :-) Sell that sucker...what are you waiting for -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
And, when they have a problem and the jerk at Verizon support doesn't fix it. There is some value in being able to talk to the owner of a business. There are prople that don't see it I worked for a roofing company, they moved about 8-10 million dollars a year. The owner of the company was approached by Wells Fargo bank. Do you know what hetold Wells Fargo? When the president of Wells Fargo is willing to come over and pick up my daily receipts,then we can talk. You see, the President of the Brentwood bank would occasionally come over and pick up the daily receipts. Granted, the roofing company was probably the biggest client of the bank, but it does show some value John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my system but allow some bursts) other traffic is not limited But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway? If you keep control over p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway? Anyone got numbers? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)
I am not going to debate what the ultimate broadband system architecture is too long because there really is no perfect solution. There are way too many ways of doing things for us to debate it too much. I used to be in the Cable Television industry. In my 10 years in that business I saw several different architectures used to deploy cable television networks. What I am proposing here is no more or less capable of being a solid delivery platform than these other designs I saw in the past. It is simply different. There are more points of failure in what I am proposing than there is in direct fiber runs. That does not mean it is a bad solution. It simply means there are more possible points of failure. The impact of this factor can be minimized if proper design methods are employed. There is no mention here of how deep a cascade would go for these nodes of millimeter wave. We could all get into the specifics of node count, power backup, loop architecture, etc. but the long and short of it is this. If radios are designed and built with low cost, low incidence of failure and cascade counts are kept to a minimum then a very acceptable and practical design can be built in a cost effective way to deliver a triple play solution. The ability to deploy an entire community-wide network with this design in a timely fashion is probably the most attractive factor in this proposed design. I am reasonably certain that a well trained crew could setup an entire small town in just a few days. I really believe that in time you will see millimeter wave radios used as a way of delivering high bandwidth for multiple service offerings in WISP operations. Is it the broadband architecture? I doubt it. I also doubt there is a perfect architecture out there. Regardless I am certain what I am proposing is very capable of being an effective platform for triple play deployment. Until there are low-cost reliable CMOS based millimeter wave radios this discussion is academic. Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: John, I believe there is such a thing coming, and that it may fit in some applications. But I can't see carrying data, VoIP and TVIP across a wireless backbone that is all fed from the radio next to it. Unless you are going to run a complete mesh type network (which would be hard with radios that only reach a few hundred feet), then each radio is dependant on the upstream radio. So to go around a neighborhood with 100 homes, you could be talking 20-30 radios, plus the WiMAX or Wifi access points, etc. You've heard the 12 days of Christmas song that says One light goes out they all go out, right? :) We currently have a fully looped fiber ring around our city. We currently have about 50 customer drops, and we run Cisco switches with Spanning-Tree at 1gbps speeds. Even at this level, there are still problems. Fiber outages, switches that fail, long term power outages (8+ hours) at customer locations, etc. People can handle the Internet being down for a few minutes or hours, and VoIP a few minutes but TV is an entirely different thing. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: The day is going to happen in the not so distant future when there will be CMOS based 70 to 90 Ghz radios the size of a pack of smokes. These will only effectively send data about a few hundred feet. These radios will do over 1 Gbps from day one. The idea is to run them back to back from street light pole to pole and have WiMAX, Wifi, 802.11a (insert your favorite client platform radio here) as the client access device to serve a few homes or businesses around the poles.. This gives us a platform for broadband, telephone and cable television all over wireless. This is not a pipe dream. I am about 2 weeks from having my first pole agreement signed. It is going to happen. The 70 Ghz gear is not going to be a long haul solution. It is going to be a real nice high throughput short haul solution to compete for triple play in cities and even smaller towns eventually. I plan to help prove this as a viable broadband platform in my own community. Now I just wish my friends at Intel would hurry up the development of those CMOS radios! They have all the patents and prototypes today. Bring on the GigE through the air! :-) Scriv G.Villarini wrote: Tom, How do you think 70 ghz gear will cost pennies and help us? For a 1 mile ptp link you need 4 ft dishes on each end, I cant imagine this working for us in ptp or ptmp ... Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need) Bob made a good point regarding contracts. Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. Charge install
