Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> That's total bullshit. If they would really care about joining, they
> could simply start to read the documentation, which explicitly shows
> them how to understand the term maintainer and/or developer.
That's total bullshit. Do you read all documentati
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...]
> If you're not subscribed and don't want copies anyway, set your own MFT
> header saying so, which would prevent the list from guessing otherwise.
> If the user has set MFT explicitly, the list should probably not mess
> with it.
If the user has explicitly
Scripsit Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > I3. What is the -Bsymbolic ld flag, exactly what does it do, and
>> > how that differs from library symbol versioning? What problems do
>> > -Bsymbolic linking solve? Why is libc6 not compiled with -Bsymbolic?
> I've never maintained a C
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill wrote:
>
> > Scripsit "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > I think that the fact that the upload keyring is the same as the
> > > voting keyring is bad. Contributors are told they can't vote
> > > until they learn C compiler flags.
> >
> > Who tells con
Scripsit "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> Scripsit "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > I think that the fact that the upload keyring is the same as the
>> > voting keyring is bad. Contributors are told they can't vote until
>> > they learn C compiler flags.
>> Who tells contribu
On 6 Apr 2006, Eddy Petrişor said:
> On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian
>>> contributor and not use Debian at all ?
>>
>> No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant
>> here. You cannot be an active Deb
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 12:35:54AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Thursday 06 April 2006 23:55, Erinn Clark wrote:
> > Do you mean this question? (Actually about ld, but it's the closest one
> > I found that seemed appropriately irrelevant.)
> >
> > I3. What is the -Bsymbolic ld flag, exactly wha
On Thursday 06 April 2006 23:55, Erinn Clark wrote:
> Do you mean this question? (Actually about ld, but it's the closest one
> I found that seemed appropriately irrelevant.)
>
> I3. What is the -Bsymbolic ld flag, exactly what does it do, and
> how that differs from library symbol versioning?
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Unfortunately, I think most if that is from before we drove
> her away from Debian into the arms of Ubuntu.
Clytie is on record as IIRC, using OSX and contributing to as many
translations of free software projects as she can, whether she
personally uses them or n
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:56:06 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > > in another meaning
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> > be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
> >
> > But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> > they suddenly have
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
> > and not use Debian at all ?
>
> No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
> cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing about its
* Benj. Mako Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006:04:06 15:35 -0400]:
>
> > Scripsit "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > I think that the fact that the upload keyring is the same as the
> > > voting keyring is bad. Contributors are told they can't vote until
> > > they learn C compiler fla
On 6 Apr 2006, Lars Wirzenius uttered the following:
> to, 2006-04-06 kello 15:05 -0500, Manoj Srivastava kirjoitti:
>> On 6 Apr 2006, JC Helary said:
>>> Obviously this thread started with somebody who is a very active
>>> contributor for whom it was unclear.
>>
>> Active contributor to Ubuntu, I
to, 2006-04-06 kello 15:05 -0500, Manoj Srivastava kirjoitti:
> On 6 Apr 2006, JC Helary said:
> > Obviously this thread started with somebody who is a very active
> > contributor for whom it was unclear.
>
> Active contributor to Ubuntu, I think. She should get Ubuntu
> voting rights.
A
> (warning: spoilers)
Stop that.
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On 6 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill told this:
>
>> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
>> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
>> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
>> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
>
> First,
On 6 Apr 2006, JC Helary said:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>
>> And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
>> nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
>> culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to Debi
On 6 Apr 2006, JC Helary uttered the following:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 23:18, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
>
>> Also even if -from an outsiders perspective- the jargon used is
>> quirky and strange. I have to wonder: if one is not even willing to
>> look at the jargon used by the project from
> Scripsit "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I think that the fact that the upload keyring is the same as the
> > voting keyring is bad. Contributors are told they can't vote until
> > they learn C compiler flags.
>
> Who tells contributors that nonsense?
Have you read the NM process
> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
First, none of these groups usually think of the work that
> On 4 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill spake thusly:
>
> >
> >> The problem is more one of 'how do we identify those people that
> >> aren't a Developer, but that do contribute regularly'.
> >
> > There are a number of ways of doing this although, like NM, it's
> > ultimately a human process that is c
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>> And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
>> nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
>> culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to De
Dear Webmaster,
We would like to exchange links with your site, http://dmoz.org/.
Name: Open Directory - Sports: Greyhound Racing: Tracks: United States
URL: http://dmoz.org/
Description: Open Directory - Sports: Greyhound Racing: Tracks: United States
We have already added your site to the ca
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > in another meaning (webmaster) and that was uncapitalised.
>
> Which makes "Ma
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:29:54PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
> >If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
> >developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
> >misunderstand, then that is a bug which sh
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:33:05PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>
> >And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
> >nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
> >culture - even if this is unclear
On 2006/04/06, at 23:18, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
Also even if -from an outsiders perspective- the jargon used is
quirky and
strange. I have to wonder:
if one is not even willing to look at the jargon used by the
project from
the projects point of view. Then why on earth would one
On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to Debian, it
should be no problem for an active c
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
> >
> > The Maintainer mentioned in a package
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
>
> The Maintainer mentioned in a package control field is a Package
> Maintainer.
>
> I fail to see wh
On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 22:29:54 +0900 JC Helary wrote:
> The bug is in the relation between "from new maintainer->to
> developer" and the corollary "other contributors don't _need_ to
> become developers".
>
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being
* JC Helary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060406 16:14]:
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being of non-maintainer contributors in the Project.
I agree to that statement - but that shouldn't make us replace the nice
term Debian Developer with a not-so-nice t
On Thursday 06 April 2006 15:29, JC Helary wrote:
> Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
>
> But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> they suddenly have become develo
On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
misunderstand, then that is a bug which should be fixed. But don't go
around claiming that I'm suddenly not a "dev
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
> >
> > Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites,
> > translations, documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> (We also have plenty of people who contribute heavily to the
>> project without being recognized as members; but I think that
>> "member" is a lesser title that doesn't do justice to their
>> contributions -- I want to see these people recognized as
>> *d
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 07:19:22AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> you and others use the word 'contributing', 'contribute',
> 'contributions'. So why not 'Debian Contributor'.
Ghaah.
Because I'm a developer, who develops an operating system, not just
someone who merely 'contributes' to it
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites, translations,
> documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to change the current
> name.
It seems to cause confusion wit
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> The 'Maintainer' in NM is a misnomer, I understand it is possible to go
>> through NM as a translator or documentation writer.
> I also had replies from Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt and Eddy Petrişor
> saying simila
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:30:46AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> > >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> > >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> > >problem is, so we need to c
No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim
is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of
"developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term
non-maintainer contributors to understand that they are also welcome.
All this is really a per
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim =20
> is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of =20
> "developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term =20
> non-maintainer contributors to understand tha
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> >problem is, so we need to change the image that DD=package maintainer)
> No because, as you'll see
On 2006/04/06, at 17:00, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
And also the a
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
Advantage, because of people inertia calling it "NM"
Disadva
On 2006/04/06, at 15:27, MJ Ray wrote:
We've thoroughly queered the pitch now, but how many translators
or documenters believed they could go through NM?
I think what matters more than the process itself is what Clytie just
wrote:
The point is, Frans, since I started this discussion, that
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