on Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:18:57AM +0100, Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:08:56PM -0700, Mark Ferlatte wrote:
> > Ron Johnson said on Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:16:22PM -0500:
> > > With tight budgets and tight schedules, I've *never* seen a project
> > > rewritten
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:24:41AM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 06:20, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> >
> > SO the reason is to inport bad fomrated code, and make that code better
> > formated. For me thats dosn't make med have to change my editor. As this
> > still needs a manual ste
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 04:40:01PM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> At 2003-08-28T18:37:34Z, Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I'd guess the latter. I've seen what could have been good software
> > engineering if management had been willing to work within the system.
>
> I wasn't th
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:12:46AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:43:19AM +0200, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:37:27AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > > Nowadays, on average I tend to use expandtab for new code, but
> > > converting tabs to spaces is s
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:43:19AM +0200, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:37:27AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > Nowadays, on average I tend to use expandtab for new code, but
> > converting tabs to spaces is still an operation that needs to be handled
> > carefully with respect
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:37:27AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 10:19:18PM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 13:26, Colin Watson wrote:
> Nowadays, on average I tend to use expandtab for new code, but
> converting tabs to spaces is still an operation that ne
On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 13:26, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:53:55PM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
[snip]
> > If you think that my goals are incorrect, or can show that it does not
> > meet my desires in some way, then tell me how. "X is better than Y" is
> > just silly. Perhaps if you
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 10:19:18PM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 13:26, Colin Watson wrote:
> > As it happens, setting the tabstop option to anything other than 8 does
> > irritate me when editing files containing tabs. I like to keep source
> > code within 80 columns, and mismat
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:53:55PM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 12:15, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:27:10AM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> > > what could be better than "works exactly as desired"?
> >
> > tabstop *doesn't* work exactly as desired for me. (Shal
On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 12:15, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:27:10AM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
[snip]
> > what could be better than "works exactly as desired"?
>
> tabstop *doesn't* work exactly as desired for me. (Shall we continue
> with proof by assertion? :))
As far as I can s
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:27:10AM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 06:51, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 02:51:20AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > > To get the behavior you describe you have to set tabstop to 4 so
> > > that it will go to the next multiple of 4.
On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 11:50, Anders Arnholm wrote:
[snip]
> The difference between ts and sts is just that ts works on \t
> charachters imported in the files to, and sts doesn't. Setting ts
> without et is definitly wrong. Setting it with et just look wrong, but
> doesn't hurt so many else. (Or hop
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:24:41AM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 06:20, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:04:28AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > > On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:18:14 +0200
> > > Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a very easy way to achie
On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 06:51, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 02:51:20AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > To get the behavior you describe you have to set tabstop to 4 so
> > that it will go to the next multiple of 4.
>
> No, you don't have to. Try setting softtabstop - much better.
On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 06:20, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:04:28AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:18:14 +0200
> > Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yes, but vim uses tabstop to determine how many spaces to put in. Hence
> > tabstop to 4, exp
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:50:08AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:15:11 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And why don't you use cindent? Becouse you have something religus
> > against the c in the name?
>
> Because we're not programming in C and I'd rather
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 02:51:20AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> To get the behavior you describe you have to set tabstop to 4 so
> that it will go to the next multiple of 4.
No, you don't have to. Try setting softtabstop - much better.
Cheers,
--
Colin Watson
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:15:11 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And why don't you use cindent? Becouse you have something religus
> against the c in the name?
Because we're not programming in C and I'd rather not take the chance of
it doing something stupid based on the presumpti
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:04:28AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:18:14 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, but vim uses tabstop to determine how many spaces to put in. Hence
> tabstop to 4, expandtabs on, shiftwidth to 4. Tabstops to know what to do
> w
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 02:51:20AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:02:09 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Then why not learn the editor :^) Whan hitting tab MY vim with tabstop
> > of eight jumps to the next indention level,
>
> I suggest you try that agai
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:18:14 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And most of the use 4 spaces wide tabs? Or just use one tab as indention
> level? In every case that still explans why python code found on the net
> other looks realy bad indented. Don't take it personal, it just explans
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:02:09 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then why not learn the editor :^) Whan hitting tab MY vim with tabstop
> of eight jumps to the next indention level,
I suggest you try that again VERRRY carefully. I just tried it. Entered
the editor in Python mode
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 01:56:39AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:56 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yes but why does you need it if you don't get bad files from other
> > programers using tabs for spaces wides as indention?
>
> Because new people to
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 01:49:23AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:23:38 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So why change tabstop?
> So that when we hit tab it goes to the next multiple of... 4?
Then why not learn the editor :^) Whan hitting tab MY vim with
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:56 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes but why does you need it if you don't get bad files from other
> programers using tabs for spaces wides as indention?
Because new people to Python haven't yet learned about no tabs?
> I saw and knew what expandt
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:23:38 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So why change tabstop?
So that when we hit tab it goes to the next multiple of... 4?
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 12:30:24PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:32:08 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> > > set tabstop=4
> > So thats why all cod
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:46:37PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:32, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> > > set tabstop=4
> >
> > So thats why all code form other Python pr
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It doesn't work for me, it only jumps to the end of the page and or a
> line down. When programing in C I'm used to when being at the beginin of
> a class/function/block being able to get to the end of this block by
> pre
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 02:06:53PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:27, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:35:25AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 03:35, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > So if not using braces matching, how does one quickly jump
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:06:36AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
>
> *cough, spit* I was able to grasp Turbo Pascal far before C.
...you're like a Spanish footballer, then - they obviously use Pascal;
if they used C, Beckham's new club would be called float madrid().
--
Pigeon
Be kind to pig
Gregory Seidman wrote:
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:42:17PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
[...]
} Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
} option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
} without reloading the page* that I can use in Koqueror or
Paul Johnson wrote:
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On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:42:17PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
without reloading the p
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On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 10:23:24AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Flash. Not that I'm promoting it, I'm just saying it's an alternative.
>
> And a god damned fscking bad one at that! I utterly hate and *loathe*
> web-sites that have Flash-based advert
On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 06:40, Gregory Seidman wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:42:17PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
> [...]
> } Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
> } option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
> } without reloading t
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On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 10:15:32AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Umm, there is an interrupt 0. 16 IRQs.
>
> You try assigning a device to IRQ0. To anyone who's been around
> since the DOS/ISA days, there are 15 IRQs, since that's all that's
> usable
On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 05:12, Paul Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 05:51:50PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >CPU0
> > 0: 563586560 XT-PIC timer
> > 1:3329762 XT-PIC keyboard
> > 2: 0
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On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 07:40:49AM -0400, Gregory Seidman wrote:
> } Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
> } option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
> } without reloading the page* that
On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 02:38, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:28:24 -0500
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Python is written in C (no surprise there!), but what is surprising
> > to some is that so many C-isms are in Python. For example:
> > IF FOO == BAR:
> > PRI
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:42:17PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
[...]
} Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
} option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
} without reloading the page* that I can use in Koqueror or other
} non-mainstream
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On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:42:17PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
> Ok, I'm not arguing pro/con Java here, I just have question. What other
> option do I have for web browser enabled client/server communication
> without reloading the page* that I can u
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On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 05:51:50PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>CPU0
> 0: 563586560 XT-PIC timer
> 1:3329762 XT-PIC keyboard
> 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade
> 3: 1461 XT-PIC usb-uhci,
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:28:24 -0500
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Python is written in C (no surprise there!), but what is surprising
> to some is that so many C-isms are in Python. For example:
> IF FOO == BAR:
> PRINT 'YES'
Ah yes, but try to to do this fun one:
if fo
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:26:17 -0500
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why is that a common error? It just looks wrong to me.
Because it does something other than what it looks like it does. And
while you, nor I, have been bitten by it I *have* seen it happen and I rarely
touch C code
Ron Johnson wrote:
But, of course, that's not an issue in The Clearly Superior Language,
is it?
Ok, if this thread has accomplished little else, it seems to have gotten
a couple people, including myself to play around with Python.
I have a simple little perl program at work. It parses a mailb
bob parker wrote:
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:18, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:06:23AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
Or the poster doesn't know much about Java. Having used Java, I'd
say that Java isn't good for small programs/quick hacks.
And what I've seen of the larger
Ron Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 22:15, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
[...snip...]
I had only posted this because the full message had a complaint about it
taking hours to debug C code because of the inconsistancy in
indentation/placement of braces. My solution for that has been $ indent
.c
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 20:58, Pigeon wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:44:33PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:01:23 +0100
> > Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Oh, that's interesting - the for loop's running from 0 to 9, so it
> > > prints "81", not "100".
> >
> > Y
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 05:51:50PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Note, though, "Disabling Via external APIC routing" and this:
> $ cat /proc/interrupts
>CPU0
> 0: 563586560 XT-PIC timer
> 15: 1311 XT-PIC ide1
>
> I'd have noticed a long time ago if there we
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:44:33PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:01:23 +0100
> Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Oh, that's interesting - the for loop's running from 0 to 9, so it
> > prints "81", not "100".
>
> Yes, range(x) does 0 to x-1. This is for stuff like this
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 11:53:14PM -0600, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
> Just my 2c on the rewrites from scratch. I also agree, and have one
> theory on why it happens anyway based on my experiance with other
> programmers who I've seen assigned to improve on existing code.
>
> I think often 'rewriters'
Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Which does not negate the fact that stupid mistakes happen. The common
> error of...
>
> if cond
> bar;
> baz;
Why is that a common error? It just looks wrong to me.
Maybe I never[1] see this error because of two things:
* I follow the
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:03:54 -0500
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We try to hire people with a basic knowledge of the language.
Which does not negate the fact that stupid mistakes happen. The common
error of...
if cond
bar;
baz;
...in C can be avoided by the braces b
Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It's called maintainability. Who says *you* are going to be the next
> person to touch the code?
We try to hire people with a basic knowledge of the language.
I can see your concern with the fifteen different ways perl can
represent ifs (at least t
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:01:23 +0100
Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh, that's interesting - the for loop's running from 0 to 9, so it
> prints "81", not "100".
Yes, range(x) does 0 to x-1. This is for stuff like this (and this is a
bad example)...
for x in range(10):
baz[x] = foo[x]
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:03, Pigeon wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:05:31AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 00:59, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 12:02:23PM -0500, Michael Heironimus wrote:
>
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 14:38, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:47:34 -0500
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 08:30, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:19:10 -0500
> > > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I wouldn't be surprised if mo
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 10:54:01PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 10:14:14AM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> > Absolutely. In fact, it's probably a good idea to learn C++ without knowing
> > C first in that you'll probably be much more comfortable with the style if
> > you're n
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:05:31AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 00:59, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 12:02:23PM -0500, Michael Heironimus wrote:
> > > The world jumped off the IBM PC cliff, so we're st
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> >
> > - There isn't an explicit end-of-block delimiter. A tab to start a
> > block; what ends it? A tab that isn't there? Yuck.
>
> As a long-time Python programmer, I must say, "Huh?". Wh
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 11:39:51PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 05:29:52PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote:
> > I've never understood people who are religious about that. It's the
> > same amount of effort whether you do it when you first write the if,
> > or when you add somethin
On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 02:26:23AM +1000, Russell Shaw wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> >On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 19:18, Colin Watson wrote:
> >>Amen, brother. I spend a fair bit of my time in Debian trying to stop
> >>people from rewriting things and getting them to fix existing code
> >>instead. It's a
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:47:34 -0500
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 08:30, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:19:10 -0500
> > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I wouldn't be surprised if most Python programmers prefer BSD style.
> > I find it t
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:32:08 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> > set tabstop=4
> So thats why all code form other Python programers look like shit and
> dont line up, not
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:27, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:35:25AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 03:35, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:32:07PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:06, Alan Shutko wrote:
> > > T
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:32, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> > set tabstop=4
>
> So thats why all code form other Python programers look like shit and
> dont line up, not that a tab is 8 spaces wi
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:54, Paul Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:08:13AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > And what I've seen of the larger stuff in Java, it's horrably slow and
> > > unreliable. So if it's too elephantine for little
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:33:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> set tabstop=4
So thats why all code form other Python programers look like shit and
dont line up, not that a tab is 8 spaces wide and will stay that way for
ever everything else is PLAIN fuc
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 08:35:25AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 03:35, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:32:07PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:06, Alan Shutko wrote:
> > Thats about what I'm using, but vim i cmode is aloot more powe
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 08:30, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:19:10 -0500
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wouldn't be surprised if most Python programmers prefer BSD style.
>
> I find it the worst of the three I presented.
Color me surprised. Why do you think it's th
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:18, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:06:23AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Or the poster doesn't know much about Java. Having used Java, I'd
> > say that Java isn't good for small programs/quick hacks.
>
> And what I've seen of the larger stuff in Java, it's
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On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:08:13AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > And what I've seen of the larger stuff in Java, it's horrably slow and
> > unreliable. So if it's too elephantine for little stuff and two slow
> > and warped for the big stuff, just wha
Ron Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 19:18, Colin Watson wrote:
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:08:56PM -0700, Mark Ferlatte wrote:
Ron Johnson said on Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:16:22PM -0500:
With tight budgets and tight schedules, I've *never* seen a project
rewritten.
Rewriting from scratch is d
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 04:18, Paul Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:06:23AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Or the poster doesn't know much about Java. Having used Java, I'd
> > say that Java isn't good for small programs/quick hacks.
>
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 05:09, Tom Badran wrote:
> On Thursday 28 Aug 2003 20:16, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > The SDLC and corporate politics are independent. Academics should
> > take corporate politics into consideration when coming up with these
> > theories.
>
> Why? The SDLC (as defined in academia
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On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 10:27:20AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Actually, xterm(1) says that it emulates much of the VT220.
Wow, tektronix dumb terminal emulation. I knew Tek made X terminals
(I have one someplace) but I had no idea they made dumb ter
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 19:18, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:08:56PM -0700, Mark Ferlatte wrote:
> > Ron Johnson said on Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:16:22PM -0500:
> > > With tight budgets and tight schedules, I've *never* seen a project
> > > rewritten.
> >
> > Rewriting from scratc
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 16:40, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> At 2003-08-28T18:37:34Z, Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I'd guess the latter. I've seen what could have been good software
> > engineering if management had been willing to work within the system.
>
> I wasn't thinking - 'nuf
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 17:31, Paul M Foster wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 06:07:35AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 22:57, bob parker wrote:
> > > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:55, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 04:06, Alfredo Valles wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesda
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 01:03, Paul Johnson wrote:
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>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 01:59:57PM -0700, Deryk Barker wrote:
[snip]
> > Incidentally Paul, C was derived from B (derived from BCPL) in order
> > to *re*write Unix, which was originally written i
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 22:15, Jacob Anawalt wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:52:35 -0600
> >Jacob Anawalt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> >Hence it is not other people's style I dislike, it is the freakin' braces.
> >
> >
> >
> Good thing there's Python for you and o
At 2003-08-29T05:54:01Z, Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I seem to recall the entire point of C++ was to be C with some extra
> stuff, as told by the creators. Wouldn't it make sense to think the same
> way?
Yes and no. I mean, it's still the same basic language with the same
operato
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 03:35, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 01:32:07PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:06, Alan Shutko wrote:
> > > Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > So, basically, you don't like Python because your text editor is
> > > junk.
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:07, Pigeon wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 05:01:05AM -0500, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 04:41, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > --snip--
> > > Yeah, on supported languages. I don't see the point of having a tool to
> > > shoehorn the code into one bracket s
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:19:10 -0500
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wouldn't be surprised if most Python programmers prefer BSD style.
I find it the worst of the three I presented.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
PGP Key: 8B6E99
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 14:50, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:35:25 +0200
> > Francois Bottin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Compare it with SUN's recomendations for Java (but useable also for C):
> > > if (cond) {
> > > block;
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:42:18 +0100,
Tom Badran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Friday 29 Aug 2003 11:09, Tom Badran wrote:
> > If they do, thats a bug bonus
>
> Before anyone jumps on this i obviously meant 'big' but im very
> hungover and cant be arsed to proof r
On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 00:59, Paul Johnson wrote:
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> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 12:02:23PM -0500, Michael Heironimus wrote:
> > The world jumped off the IBM PC cliff, so we're still dealing with some
> > of the design mistakes IBM made the first time
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:00:15 +0200, Sebastian Kapfer wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:50:11 +0200, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>> While I haven't learned much C yet (I can read it better than I write
>> it), I do have to ask this one: It's possible to write
>> non-braindamaged code in C++ without learn
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 02:36:26AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:41:45 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So you don't copy from example web-pages and so on when trying to learn
> > about a new feature, area and so on. I do that aloot and thats is the
> > bigg
On Friday 29 Aug 2003 11:09, Tom Badran wrote:
> If they do, thats a bug bonus
Before anyone jumps on this i obviously meant 'big' but im very hungover and
cant be arsed to proof read my emails.
Tom
--
^__^ Tom Badran
(oo)\__Imperial College
(__)\ )\/\
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:34:14AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 08:06:22PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > Starting up KDE applications outside KDE (often?) requires starting up a
> > number of random daemons which are normally running if you use KDE for
> > everything.
>
>
On Thursday 28 Aug 2003 20:16, Ron Johnson wrote:
> The SDLC and corporate politics are independent. Academics should
> take corporate politics into consideration when coming up with these
> theories.
Why? The SDLC (as defined in academia) is nothing to do with corporate
software development, it
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:41:45 +0200
Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So you don't copy from example web-pages and so on when trying to learn
> about a new feature, area and so on. I do that aloot and thats is the
> biggest problem with Python.
I do and it hasn't caused me any proble
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:46:43PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:10:33 +0200
> Anders Arnholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > One of the main reasons is that Python leaves a loot of the resolving to
> > runtime, that means that the code actually has to be run before you can
> > s
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On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 06:01:54PM +0200, Thomas Krennwallner wrote:
> For me its clear: use the language you think is good for completing a
> given task. I know you cannot always make this decision but if you have
> the chance, choose carefully ;-)
B
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On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 10:47:10AM -0400, David Z Maze wrote:
> Java is garbage-collected
That's not entirely true, or Java would have self-collected before I
hit high school. 8:o)
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :' :
`. `'`
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On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:06:23AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Or the poster doesn't know much about Java. Having used Java, I'd
> say that Java isn't good for small programs/quick hacks.
And what I've seen of the larger stuff in Java, it's horrably
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:55:56PM -0400, Mark Roach wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 09:10, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 06:46:09AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > Lets take my MUA, Evolution, for example. It's not processor
> > > intensive. Why couldn't it be written in Pyth
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:26:11PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:20:07 -0700
> Erik Steffl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Indention isn't magically lost and you're speaking of copies. The problem
> in all those cases lays in the transport or in the person who doesn't know
> w
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