> list members off-list and best of luck to Devuan. I'll be decommissioning
> the Jenkins slave I contributed, and will go get some work done
I have no dog in this argument, however, I have plenty of servers available
if we need to build any new platforms: Jenkins, Vagrant, SDK, etc.
Linux O'Bea
hi,
On Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Brad Campbell wrote:
> On 09/04/15 23:56, Laurent Bercot wrote:
> >On 09/04/2015 10:37, Jaromil wrote:
> >>a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only.
> >
> > That's really a shame, because I would love to have access to that list -
> >even read-only.
On 09/04/15 23:56, Laurent Bercot wrote:
On 09/04/2015 10:37, Jaromil wrote:
a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only.
That's really a shame, because I would love to have access to that list -
even read-only. Isn't it possible to open subscriptions while keeping
posts mo
On 09/04/2015 10:37, Jaromil wrote:
a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only.
That's really a shame, because I would love to have access to that list -
even read-only. Isn't it possible to open subscriptions while keeping
posts moderated ? (posts from devs would be auto-ap
On Thu, 09 Apr 2015, Franco Lanza wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> > You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and
> > from the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people
> > running the project.
>
> dyne.org != de
>Author: Martijn Dekkers
>Date: 2015-04-08 00:35 -400
>To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>Subject: Re: [Dng] dev-list
>Personally, my view is that there is no cost or significant effort to the
>project for splitting to -dev and -user. Those who are not interested in
>either of thes
Oh wait, it wasn't offlist.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
>> The «long standing, wide-ranging implementation pattern» thing is a
>> bogus argument. Similar to "Lots of people jump of bridges, care to
>> join them?"
>
>
> Thats just uninformed bullshit. "Patterns" are one
On April 9, 2015 8:20:19 AM GMT+01:00, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
>I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev list.
a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only. Even the take
over of the Kremlin was done by leaving the hangry mob outside of its gates.
>
On Thu, 2015-04-09 at 12:00 +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote:
> For what is worth - and at risk of adding fuel to the fire, but
> I am just voicing my impressions and you guys will do what you want
> with it:
> Please direct me to the place where the technical discussions are
> happening; if they'r
For what is worth - and at risk of adding fuel to the fire, but
I am just voicing my impressions and you guys will do what you want
with it:
I have subscribed to this list five days ago, hoping to see technical
discussions about how to design a distribution without systemd. I am
the author of
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and from
> the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people running the
> project.
dyne.org != devun
dyne.org != VUAs
dyne.org is helping VUAs and dev
On Thu 09 April 2015 11:27:45 Franco Lanza wrote:
> all of those open to anyone, without restriction on WHO can join, but
> with restriction on WHAT can be considered in topic and what not.
(plus all the rest)
Absolutely to the point. Thanks! Exactly what we see everywhere else
*WORKING*.
And ass
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> You can now count me amongst those in the "fuck it, this is a waste of
> time" camp. Good luck with your forum, your "everyone use one list or GTFO"
> attitude, the constant off-list clique forming and gossipy emails about
> list me
On Thu 09 April 2015 02:20:16 hellekin wrote:
>> *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and build
> something different that won't end up in an isolated technical committee
> in their ivory towers, and bullies.
Sorry that's not to the point. Nobody at all talked about "tech
Just my 2 c.:
Having multiple mailing lists isn't to be seen as separate users from
developers. It has to be seen as separate topics.
In my view even more than 2 ml are ok, something like:
1- ml dev
1- ml general
1- ml announces
1- ml translations/localization
1- ml users
1- ml governance
1- ml
On Thu, 2015-04-09 at 10:20 +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev
list.
>
>> *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and
>> build something different that won't end up in an isolated technical
>> committee in their
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
[cut]
>
> You can now count me amongst those in the "fuck it, this is a waste of
> time" camp. Good luck with your forum, your "everyone use one list or GTFO"
> attitude, the constant off-list clique forming and gossipy emails abou
> > That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons,
> like
> > others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of
> "because I
> > said so"
> >
>
> It's not arrogant, it's a fact. There's not even a single release, only
> a dozen or so regular participants, and
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 02:28:38AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
> On 04/09/2015 01:15 AM, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> >> We do not need another list.
> >>
> >
> > That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like
> > others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of
On 04/09/2015 01:17 AM, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> The reason the vast majority of projects use separate lists is because it
> *works* [dev] tagged topics don't work very well, because in most cases,
> people tend to forget, or change the subjectline, or whatever.
>
*** I agree that Mailman's top
On 04/09/2015 01:15 AM, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>> We do not need another list.
>>
>
> That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like
> others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of "because I
> said so"
>
It's not arrogant, it's a fact. There's no
On 04/09/2015 01:13 AM, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> Thats just uninformed bullshit.
>
> [snip]
>
> list). Interestingly, I see two broad groups. Those that want a simple dev
> list, and those that absolutely don't want other people to have one, for
> the most tenuous of arguments.
>
*** I see anot
> *** We could use mailman's topics for that. When you want to talk about
> development, use the [dev] tag in the Subject, and if you're not
> interested in anything else, simply subscribe to the [dev] topic and
> ignore the rest.
>
The reason the vast majority of projects use separate lists is b
> We do not need another list.
>
That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like
others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of "because I
said so"
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists
>
> The «long standing, wide-ranging implementation pattern» thing is a
> bogus argument. Similar to "Lots of people jump of bridges, care to
> join them?"
>
Thats just uninformed bullshit. "Patterns" are one of the cornerstones of
modern computing architecture - without patterns everybody will be
> should we just retire the mailing list(s) and start using the forum?
>
...I don't even...
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 05:47:25PM -0300, hellekin wrote:
> On 04/08/2015 11:57 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > Rather than dividing the list between developers and users,
> > it would be better to divide them betwen technical and nontechnical.
> >
> *** We could use mailman's topics for that. When y
On 04/08/2015 09:49 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> I make the following pledge to make sure I don't cause or continue conflict
> or noise on Dng:
>
> 1) I will not respond, at least on-list, to any thread discussing the
> merits or shames of systemd. I will either ignore, respond offlist, or
> filter a
On 04/08/2015 07:44 PM, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
>
> We got #debianfork and #devuan IRC channels for pretty much the same reasons,
> and it seems it sort of works there. So for ML that would be the natural
> template to follow.
>
*** Except the move from IRC to email matches in nature the move f
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 19:16:34 -0400
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 05:44:41 +0800
> Robert Storey wrote:
>
> > Which begs the question: should we just retire the mailing
> > list(s) and start using the forum?
>
> Please dont; with a mailing list one can keep locally the message
On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 05:44:41 +0800
Robert Storey wrote:
> Which begs the question: should we just retire the mailing
> list(s) and start using the forum?
Please dont; with a mailing list one can keep locally the messages that seem
interesting, for later reference.
If you are dead keen on a foru
On Wed 08 April 2015 23:27:21 Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Martijn Dekkers
> > This isn't the first call for separate lists, so there clearly is a
> > (strong) desire for this from some people.
>
> Just because some people called for it, doesn't mean they feel
> strongly
Hi,
Just me being picky here.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> The flip side is those that say "don't split the lists" - there again is no
> significant cost to subscribing to both both lists, and follow and
> participate in both lists if they so wish. It isn't so much a
On Thu 09 April 2015 05:44:41 Robert Storey wrote:
> Which begs the question: should we just retire the mailing
> list(s) and start using the forum?
Real Programmers dont use Forum
On a less joking comment:
the ML is the medium of choice for serious communication, simply since you
don't need a
Apollia wrote:
> I'm also glad there is a forum: http://talk.devuan.org/
>
> I actually prefer forums over mailing lists in general because forums
> seem to be more organized, which makes it easier for people to avoid
> anything they're uninterested in.
I didn't realize we had a forum. And I agre
On 04/08/2015 11:57 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Rather than dividing the list between developers and users,
> it would be better to divide them betwen technical and nontechnical.
>
*** We could use mailman's topics for that. When you want to talk about
development, use the [dev] tag in the Subject,
Rather than dividing the list between developers and users,
it would be better to divide them betwen technical and nontechnical.
Users are in an intimate relationship with developers (they eat the
dogfood, so to speak) and they deserve to remain in communication.
But there are many legitimate to
FYI, I've been working on a Discourse instance for Devuan, so that we
can have the best of both worlds (email and forum). If this happens,
the developers can simply ignore threads they're not interested in and
keep focused on work. The forum form is likely to grow beyond what any
single person ca
Jude Nelson wrote on 04/07/15 20:04:
>
> suggest that Pottering is evil,
>
>
> Definitely looking forward to this stopping.
Agreed. It accomplishes nothing but heat up the list and add to the static.
RE: Development list:
Since there is way more general chit-chat, how about having the d
I would be on both lists
Sometimes I enjoy the chatter and sometimes I press delete
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 8. April 2015, 08:09:14 schrieb Robert Storey:
> > > Good point. But I thought the reason for the suggestion was because
> > > of
> > >
Am Mittwoch, 8. April 2015, 08:09:14 schrieb Robert Storey:
> > Good point. But I thought the reason for the suggestion was because
> > of
> > the amount of fairly useless chatter on this list that the devs have
> > to
>
> wade
>
> > through. (Honestly, it annoys me too.) If there is a -dev li
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Robert Storey wrote:
>
>> Good point. But I thought the reason for the suggestion was because of
>> the amount of fairly useless chatter on this list that the devs have to
>> wade
>> through. (Honestly, it annoys me too.)
Sorry if I added to anyone's annoyance!
All good points. However, having a -dev list really does have some
significant benefits.
- Firstly, as already mentioned, it allows for the chatter to be separated
from the work.
- Secondly, it allows for aggregating commit and update messages from
gitlab, jenkins, the infrastructure at large etc.
> suggest that Pottering is evil,
>
Definitely looking forward to this stopping. Seriously, it's not Lennart's
fault that Debian decided to switch to systemd. If you want to blame
anyone for this, blame the CTTE, the DDs who voted against init freedom in
the GR, and the systemd fanbois who poiso
> Good point. But I thought the reason for the suggestion was because of
> the amount of fairly useless chatter on this list that the devs have to
wade
> through. (Honestly, it annoys me too.) If there is a -dev list, I would
sign up
> to see what's happening but it's unlikely I would participat
On Wed 08 April 2015 01:45:20 Jürgen Buchmüller wrote:
> I'd love to see ancient, unwritten, yet useful rules being adhered to on
> Quote relevant parts of the original message. Cut out irrelevant stuff.
+:
Use proper > quotes; no TOFU and no HTML, ever
ta!
/j
signature.asc
Description: This is
Am Dienstag, den 07.04.2015, 20:19 +0100 schrieb Nuno Magalhães:
> I disagree, this will mean the devs will self-segregate and tend to
> ignore users.
> Having "both camps" in the same list evens each other out.
I'd love to see ancient, unwritten, yet useful rules being adhered to on
this list the
On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 13:09:55 -0700
Go Linux wrote:
> On Tue, 4/7/15, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Dng] dev-list
> To: "dng"
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2015, 2:19 PM
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Martijn Dekkers
> wrote:
> > I know
On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 01:09:55PM -0700, Go Linux wrote:
> On Tue, 4/7/15, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Dng] dev-list
> To: "dng"
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2015, 2:19 PM
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Martijn Dekkers
> wrote:
> > I
On Tue, 4/7/15, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
Subject: Re: [Dng] dev-list
To: "dng"
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2015, 2:19 PM
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
> see a dev specific
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
> see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules.
I disagree, this will mean the devs will self-segregate and tend to
ignore users.
Having "both camps"
awesome, many thanks!
On 7 April 2015 at 14:11, Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> >we could perhaps tie the dev list in with notifications from jenkins,
> >gitlab etc to give a good general overview of whats moving
>
> ok, but please keep patient a little w
On Tue, 07 Apr 2015, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>we could perhaps tie the dev list in with notifications from jenkins,
>gitlab etc to give a good general overview of whats moving
ok, but please keep patient a little while more because the preparations
of the alpha release are in the way, once
we could perhaps tie the dev list in with notifications from jenkins,
gitlab etc to give a good general overview of whats moving
On 7 April 2015 at 09:45, Franco Lanza wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:25:47AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know this has come up a few times in
On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:25:47AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
> see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules. The
> Drama-to-Noise ratio is getting pretty high pretty frequently, and IRC just
> d
Hi,
I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules. The
Drama-to-Noise ratio is getting pretty high pretty frequently, and IRC just
doesn't work for many people.
pretty-please? I am happy to donate time, effor
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