Hi Rasmus,
Thanks, your post was very informative.
Rasmus writes:
> ...
>> Can you turn off the automatic addition of commas in BibLaTeX by setting
>> something in the preamble?
>
> Preamble or using \AtNextCite
>
>> If so, would that be the right solution here? It might be easier to
>> remove
Eric S Fraga writes:
> On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
>> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>>> Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
>>> could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
>>
>> It seems like a moderately dear price to pay for everyone with "normal"
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
> > Nicolas Goaziou writes:
> >> Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
> >> could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
> >
> > It seems like a moderately dear pri
On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>> Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
>> could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
>
> It seems like a moderately dear price to pay for everyone with "normal"
> citation keys... It's bette
Nicolas Goaziou writes:
> I'd rather have a single syntax for keys.
Me to.
> Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
> could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
It seems like a moderately dear price to pay for everyone with "normal"
citation keys... It's better t
Eric S Fraga writes:
>> We keep the existing syntax for keys, which disallows key-ending
>> punctuation, but we also allow a second style of key, in which curly
>> braces surround the key name proper, like:
>>
>> @{Doe1999}
>
> I like this much better.
I'd rather have a single syntax for keys.
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 17:36, Richard Lawrence wrote:
[...]
> I feel the same as you do about this, so here's one more thought for the
> thread. How about this alternative?
>
> We keep the existing syntax for keys, which disallows key-ending
> punctuation, but we also allow a second style of
Hi Eric and all,
Eric S Fraga writes:
> On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>
>> Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
>> but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
>
> No, please no! I would say that the majority
Richard Lawrence writes:
> Oh dear, you're right. Where do that initial comma and space come from?
> I guess BibLaTeX inserts them automatically? Does that happen in all
> styles?
The default value is determined by \postnotedelim. So assuming spaces not
stripped \renewcommand{\postnotedelim}{
Rasmus writes:
> Richard Lawrence writes:
>
>> Suppose you often write citations like:
>>
>> [cite: See @Doe99, and references therein, for more.]
>>
>> [...] and rendered like:
>>
>> See Doe (1999), and references therein, for more.
>
> This is slightly OT, but it comes up frequently eno
Richard Lawrence writes:
> Suppose you often write citations like:
>
> [cite: See @Doe99, and references therein, for more.]
>
> [...] and rendered like:
>
> See Doe (1999), and references therein, for more.
This is slightly OT, but it comes up frequently enough that it's worth
pointing ou
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 08:44, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
[...]
> No, you have it right and clearly have a use for shortcuts. If you want
> to type shortcut citations yourself, then the choice is either to accept
> some kind of terminator, e.g. {}, or a restriction that citation keys
> not end in pu
Hi Tom and all,
"Thomas S. Dye" writes:
> The problem is limited to the shortcut citations and doesn't affect the
> [cite: ...] form, which can be expected to work without modification
> wherever it is placed IIUC.
Actually, it occurs to me now that this might even affect the [cite:
...] form,
Eric S Fraga writes:
> On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 07:49, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Do you have a use for the shortcuts? I doubt I'd use them.
>
> Wouldn't the shortcut be the most attractive to use generally unless you
> have need for the extra capability of the full [cite:] syntax?
>
>
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 07:49, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
[...]
> Do you have a use for the shortcuts? I doubt I'd use them.
Wouldn't the shortcut be the most attractive to use generally unless you
have need for the extra capability of the full [cite:] syntax?
The vast majority of my citations, e.
Aloha Eric,
Eric S Fraga writes:
> On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
>> but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
>
> No, please no! I would say that the majo
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
[...]
> Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
> but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
No, please no! I would say that the majority of my citations are at the
end of sentence
Richard Lawrence writes:
> Hi Tom and all,
>
> "Thomas S. Dye" writes:
>
>> Richard Lawrence writes:
>>
>>> But my opinion probably shouldn't count for much on this
>>> point, because I don't use a citation manager myself (I use org-bibtex),
>>> and I write my own keys.
>>
>> Oh my. This is a
Hi Tom and all,
"Thomas S. Dye" writes:
> Richard Lawrence writes:
>
>> But my opinion probably shouldn't count for much on this
>> point, because I don't use a citation manager myself (I use org-bibtex),
>> and I write my own keys.
>
> Oh my. This is a lot to keep in your head as a bibliogra
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> By saying "bibtex is not a requirement",
I said "exporting to bibtex". You talked about Zotero but showed a
bibtex entry. Therefore exporting from Zotero to bibtex may not
be a requirement, there may be a direct interface to Zotero,
eventually.
We are at the start of t
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> Believe me, if I had quick access to pandoc-hs, there would be a
> ox-pandoc-citeproc already in the tree by now.
My opinion would be to perhaps not put too much energy into anything
Haskell. It's extremely annoying when you don't have the luxury of
prebuild packages.
On Monday 09 March 2015 03:19 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
>
>>> IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
>>> Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
>
>> Not in the specific case t
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
>> IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
>> Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
> Not in the specific case that I cited. The Bib entry is a pointer to
> a website.
I would s
On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
> IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
> Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
title = {Zotero {Quick} {Start} {Guide}},
url = {http://
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
> It strikes me that basing core features of the citation syntax on
> the software users happen to be using today is a bit like this--at
> some point the design of the system will prove unprepared for new
> developments.
I don't think this is a big problem.
Aloha Richard,
Richard Lawrence writes:
> Hi Tom and all,
>
> t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> As I see it, the choice boils down to the relative benefit of citation
>> shortcuts vs. the limitation of requiring authors to configure the
>> citation manager so it doesn't produce a key e
Hi Tom and all,
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
> As I see it, the choice boils down to the relative benefit of citation
> shortcuts vs. the limitation of requiring authors to configure the
> citation manager so it doesn't produce a key ending in punctuation (or
> your solution that uses d
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
Bibtex.el is not that hard to configure. I think I have something like
this to configure FIRSTAUTHOR-YY (without the hyphen):
(setq bibtex-autokey-titlewords 0
bibtex-autokey-titlewords-stretch 0
bibtex-autokey-titleword-length 0
b
Aloha Rasmus,
Rasmus writes:
> t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> Rasmus writes:
>>
>>> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>>>
> I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
> is the use case?
More readable, I guess.
>>>
>>> I agree. In time, "org-r
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
> Rasmus writes:
>
>> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>>
I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
is the use case?
>>>
>>> More readable, I guess.
>>
>> I agree. In time, "org-reftex" would insert @key if no notes are
>> r
Richard Lawrence writes:
> Like I said, this seems like an edge case, and I don't see that it
> is necessarily Org's responsibility to accommodate the keys produced
> by Zotero in such edge cases. And there is a significant benefit to
> *not* accommodating such keys: namely, you can use in-text c
Rasmus writes:
> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>
>>> I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
>>> is the use case?
>>
>> More readable, I guess.
>
> I agree. In time, "org-reftex" would insert @key if no notes are
> requested at the time of insertion.
I think the OP h
Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>> I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
>> is the use case?
>
> More readable, I guess.
I agree. In time, "org-reftex" would insert @key if no notes are
requested at the time of insertion.
—Rasmus
--
Dung makes an excellent fertiliz
Hello,
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
> Am I right that key-ending punctuation is a potential problem for the
> shorthand part of the syntax and not for the full [cite: ...] syntax?
Exactly. If key-ending punctuation is required, we might have to drop
shortcuts (i.e. [@key] and @key).
A
On Saturday 07 March 2015 10:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
> So what if Zotero
> sometimes produces keys like this? So what if a LaTeX document will
> compile with such keys? Is it your position that that means Org keys
> must allow punctuation at the end?
Yes. Nicolas is implementing the pars
Aloha all,
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>> If key-ending punctuation turns out to be common, I would revise
>> this opinion, but at the moment I don't see the need.
>
> I am not imagining things. I am pointing out how existing tools
> behave.
Am I right that key-ending punctuation is a potential pr
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> On Friday 06 March 2015 11:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi Vaidheeswaran,
>>
>> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>>
>>> The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
>>> exporter. It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
>>> one.
>>
On Friday 06 March 2015 11:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Vaidheeswaran,
>
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
>> exporter. It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
>> one.
>>
>> \cite{center_for_history_and_ne
On Friday, 6 Mar 2015 at 18:55, Rasmus wrote:
> My gut feeling tells me that scripts are "more important" than citations.
My gut agrees with yours on this.
However, the precedence for citations is only for words starting with @
so this should not pose a problem generally. I cannot remember ever
Hi Vaidheeswaran,
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
> exporter. It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
> one.
>
> \cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}
Is that a realistic example of a key? What progr
Nicolas Goaziou writes:
> While we're at it, as you noticed already, bare citation keys take
> precedence over subscript. So, basically, one can never add subscript to
> a word starting with "@".
>
> At the bare minimum, we should introduce an entity to generate "@"
> (e.g. "\At") so one can alwa
Rasmus writes:
> This is also not captured: [cite:@Röntgen]. Why limit
> org-element--citation-key-re to a-z?
Done in 8c941008e0aaf958bdc6ae2cc7dfcbe3fd967b92.
While we're at it, as you noticed already, bare citation keys take
precedence over subscript. So, basically, one can never add subscri
On Friday 06 March 2015 04:19 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Richard Lawrence writes:
>
>> I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
>> Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
>> to allow underscores in keys (including at the final charac
Nicolas Goaziou writes:
> Richard Lawrence writes:
>
>> I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
>> Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
>> to allow underscores in keys (including at the final character, I
>> guess).
>
> Done in a
Richard Lawrence writes:
> I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
> Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
> to allow underscores in keys (including at the final character, I
> guess).
Done in ab7ff4034e8cd67ae5b5e2cfddfee87082228
Hi Rasmus and all,
Rasmus writes:
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
> Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
> probably saw. See http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/95609.
> I would tend to agree that thi
Also, Zotero items are typically identified by [library-ID]_[item-key]
hashes with an underscore separator.
Christian
Rasmus writes:
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
>>
>> This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
>
> Oh, you are right. _ is on
On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:31 AM, Rasmus wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
>>
>> This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
>
> Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
> probably saw. See http://permalink.gmane
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
>
> This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
probably saw. See http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/95609.
I would tend to agree that this
On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:00 AM, Rasmus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Vaidheeswaran C writes:
>
>> 1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
>> 2. Add it to Zotero.
>> 3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
>> 4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
>>
>>
Hi,
Vaidheeswaran C writes:
> 1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
> 2. Add it to Zotero.
> 3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
> 4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
>
> When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
\c
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
\c
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