[Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

cross-posting to foundation-l & internal-l from India Community list; apologies if you've read this already. hisham Begin forwarded message: > From: Hisham > Subject: Wikimedia India Program Trust > Date: November 11, 2011 9:55:00 AM GMT+05:30 > To: Wikimedia India Community list > > Hi Folk

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hi Hisham, Interesting development :-) My question is with regards to the relationship of the new trust to the existing India Chapter. The purpose of the trust (as defined as "The objective of the Trust is to promote the objectives of the Wikimedia movement and work closely with the Wikimedia comm

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Liam Wyatt wrote: > > > Can you elaborate on the legal and practical differences between the new > India Trust and the India Chapter? > Dear Liam, Since I run a non-profit in India in my other life, I'll pitch in on one part of this: the legal differences betwe

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Liam Wyatt wrote: > Can you elaborate on the legal and practical differences between the new > India Trust and the India Chapter? To add to what Bishakha has said - another reason for such a choice could very well be a difference in the methods of execution, whe

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hi, thanks a lot all for exmplaining the differences. I would be very much interested to know more about the ''relationship'' between the trust and Wikimedia India. You seem to suggest that trustees get appointed by (or on the advice of - not sure of the legal wording) the WMF - but will Wikimedia

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

My personal opinion, and I only speak for myself and not the Chapter or the Foundation (I wouldn't dare!). On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > Hi, > > thanks a lot all for exmplaining the differences. I would be very much > interested to know more about the ''relationship'' between

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hallo Anirudh, Lodewijk, While I think that this discussion is very useful, it has been happening for some time - I know that Anirudh has raised these questions before, for instance. In that sense, I'm not sure how the registration of a trust changes the situation at all; I think that for anyon

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On 11 November 2011 17:11, Achal Prabhala wrote: > Honestly, news reporters in India are confused about *everything* > related to Wikipedia and Wikimedia :) Even a cursory analysis of news > coverage will confirm that they routinely mix up what the movement is, > what the difference between Wikipe

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

>From personal experience with WCI 2011, we have benefited by having both the >Chapter and the Foundation in the country. Kind Regards, ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubsc

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:40 PM, wrote: > > From personal experience with WCI 2011, we have benefited by having both > the Chapter and the Foundation in the country. > > Kind Regards, > > > Hi In the interest of full-disclosure first, please have a look here.[1] Both the organizers are on WMF

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

+1 on Achal's note. Thanks Achal. Let me add that the relationship with the Wikimedia India chapter is evolving...and it is evolving in a good way. Hisham worked collaboratively with Arjuna in joint support of the Wikiconference India team. We work very closely with Tinu on communications (as we

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Anirudh Bhati wrote: > > The initial idea, if I understood it correctly, was to establish another > non-profit body within India, for a period of three to five years to > execute specific (and large-scale) programmes. As of now, the WIPT > (Wikimedia India Progra

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

inline. > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:21:17 -0800 > From: bnewst...@wikimedia.org > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > On the funding issue...this is a bit of a red herring. As of now, there is > suffi

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

April, Iv been compensated only August onwards). > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:49:36 +0530 > From: de10...@gmail.com > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:40 PM, wrote: >

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:36 AM, wrote: > > inline. > > > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:21:17 -0800 > > From: bnewst...@wikimedia.org > > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > > > &g

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:36 AM, wrote: > > > > > inline. > > > > > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:21:17 -0800 > > > From: bnewst...@wikimedia.org > > > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org &g

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't know much about the Indian operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know. *Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding within >> India, much of which will be allocated to WIPT, given that it is >> professionalized (and

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I meant to ask earlier, since the fundraiser already started and this is being announced now. Is this trust set-up to participate in the annual fundraiser? processing donations on-behalf of WMF internally? or would it seek to do so in future? I know you mention FCRA and external funding after appr

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

A couple of clarifications: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Béria Lima wrote: > Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't know much about the Indian > operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know. > > > *Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding within >

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Ohai Achal As usual, I disagree. I am a bit more informed of the current situation than most people, maybe not as much as the current WMF advisory board member but who knows. My opinion on this is from a regular community member before much of the community in other cities was active. I am not af

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Barry, answers will be in line (as a side notice: I will start love when someone says something bad about WMF if that is the only way that we can actually see they posting mails). *So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the > funding of the conference that did not e

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Responses below... On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Theo10011 wrote: > I meant to ask earlier, since the fundraiser already started and this is > being announced now. > No relationship between this announcement and the fundraiser. The Trust has been in the works for months, but it takes month

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Barry Newstead wrote: > > More directly to your questions...the Trust is an independent org, so > technically it cannot serve as an "internal" processor for WMF. > I meant "internal" as in within the country, as opposed to external, when Hisham's email said "exte

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

the practical difference seems to be the experience On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 07:44, Liam Wyatt wrote: > Hi Hisham, > Interesting development :-) > > My question is with regards to the relationship of the new trust to the > existing India Chapter. The purpose of the trust (as defined as "The > obj

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hi Theo On 11 November 2011 14:10, Theo10011 wrote: > Ohai Achal > > As usual, I disagree. ?? I didn't realise we disagree frequently...you must fill me in off list :) > I am a bit more informed of the current situation > than most people, maybe not as much as the current WMF advisory board

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Yes, we disagreed on a couple of things during the filter discussion on this very list, I'm sure you can look it up. Along with the local discussions, your thoughts on the strategy plan, and movement roles, I wasn't there at the time to disagree so I suppose you have no idea. You are more than wel

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hi Theo, I find your tone needlessly rude - do you really think this is the best way to communicate? It makes it very difficult to have a useful conversation. Best wishes, Achal On 11 November 2011 18:07, Theo10011 wrote: > Yes, we disagreed on a couple of things during the filter discussion o

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I'm sorry Achal, but I read Theo's answer twice and didn't find the "rudeness" in his comments. Can't we all just assume good faith and answer the questions and comment with that in mind? I'm sure he didn't wanted to be rude to anyone, and I'm sure you can assume his good faith and move on. _

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I don't think you've interacted on these mailing lists or on-wiki a lot, have you? As far as I can see, barring maybe my last line in the previous reply, I was civil thorough-out, maybe sarcastic or acerbically restrained. You don't know me, but I assure you this was not me attempting to be rude.

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Hisham wrote: > Announcement of Wikimedia India Program Trust Congratulations, Hisham. I know this has been a lot of work for you and the team over the last few months. I look forward to seeing the programs that the trust and the chapter develop together. There's

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Bishakha Datta wrote: > My personal view is that there is enough work ahead for not just one, or > two, but numerous entities, formal and informal, to enter the fray and > actualize this potential. Already, there are many more requests for > collaboration within In

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

FYI - The two "Fellows" are WMIN chapter members and signatories on its bank account. > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:41:43 + > From: berial...@gmail.com > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > Dis

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

This thread started out with questions about the legal and practical differences between chapter and trust, but has veered much more into the terrain of funding and money. In addition, there have been numerous emails on bank accounts, grants, fellowships and what not. I'm glad we're talking about

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

the result of 10 minutes googling is ... hisham mundol. total edits 138, in 38 different pages. active since 4 months, active time 100% paid by wikimedia foundation. no free software development. created even articles, an example: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafe_Qahwa sunil abraham. no edits.

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:04 PM, rupert THURNER wrote: > to get a feeling about the size, the number of readers, contributors, and a > trend in it, i tried to find the india country statistics on editing and > reading: The major program initiative undertaken by Hisham's team so far is the India

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On 12 November 2011 06:53, Bishakha Datta wrote: > This thread started out with questions about the legal and practical > differences between chapter and trust, but has veered much more into the > terrain of funding and money. > > In addition, there have been numerous emails on bank accounts, gra

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Bishakha, the program (for WCI) is not a problem. Everyone agrees on it. The funding for WMIN and WIPT is. So makes no sense ask us to discuss in a point everyone agrees and left out the one where we don't. _ *Béria Lima* (351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

> > *The major program initiative undertaken by Hisham's team so far is the > India Education Program.* > You sure you want to use that as an example of Hishan work? Because if was in a "for-profit" organization t

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

o "Fellows" are WMIN chapter members and signatories on its > bank account. > > > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:41:43 + > > From: berial...@gmail.com > > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Thank you Liam for using the term, "organisational roles," instead of the more pretentious, "movement roles." I find the whole thread disturbing. I am and have always been a strong supporter of the autonomy of both projects and chapters, and from that vantage point it is difficult to see this i

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:03 AM, wrote: > FYI - The two "Fellows" are WMIN chapter members and signatories on its bank > account. Ummm, not to the best of my knowledge. They are, by virtue of being organisers of the Wiki Conference India, signatories to the Conference account. Not the Chapter

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:30:06 -0800 > From: Ray Saintonge > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > > Message-ID: <4ebe58be@telus.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=fl

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

The following comments are my personal view and not necessarily of an Executive Member of the Wikimedia India Chapter. Having said that I must politely disagree with some of the views of Anirudh, my fellow Executive Member and Salmaan ( Theo) , a member of Wikimedia India chapter. But I do respect

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I was not going to comment on this thread again. I am kind of annoyed by what you are painting me as, but I'll try and remain objective. First, what mail are you disagreeing with? The last mail I sent on this thread is 3 days old, the last topic was Achal. I didn't talk about Hisham directly on an

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

> > *Having said that I must politely disagree with some of the views of > Anirudh, my fellow Executive Member and Salmaan ( Theo) , a member of > Wikimedia India chapter. But I do respect their personal views , but I > guess we agree to disagree. > * So, your idea of "politeness" include offend

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

would you be so kind to tell us a reason why 1. the indian chapter does not receive 50 dollars to hire 2 persons, to pay the internet and telephone cost of 150 volunteers and to pay prices for 50 writing and photo shooting competitions around many universities in india? the first price could a

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

> > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:12:42 + > From: B?ria Lima > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > *The way I see is India is a land of immense potential for the Wikimedia > > Movement. IMHO, There is enough space of 10 chapters and Wikim

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I am not going the respond inline, as it may confuse many a readers like me. I will also try to answer below various questions/comments from multiple mails/ people. Some of my comments may be general and not directed to anyone in particular. I didn't mean to offend anyone, whether he is a chapter

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Tinu Cherian, thank you so much for writing this gorgeous, thoughtful e-mail. I agree with every word you wrote, and I am grateful that you did it. One of the things I like best about Wikimedia is that anyone can become a leader. You become a leader by acting like one: by being compassionate and g

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

<http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>* On 15 November 2011 09:37, Joan Goma wrote: > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:12:42 + > > From: B?ria Lima > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > > > > *The way I see is India

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

kimedia.pt/Donativos>* > > > On 15 November 2011 09:37, Joan Goma wrote: > >>> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:12:42 + >>> From: B?ria Lima >>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust >>> >>> *The way I see is India is

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

gt; > > > > > On 15 November 2011 09:37, Joan Goma wrote: > > > >>> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:12:42 + > >>> From: B?ria Lima > >>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust > >>> > >>> *The way I

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Let's not? I'm sure there is a lot of backstory to why some posts to this thread have been so argumentative, but the belligerence is childish and not conducive to a serious and productive discussion. ~Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@li

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Hisham, There has been much discussion on this already, but this does sound like some *serious* development to someone like me who has been a long time volunteer from India. And perhaps to several other long time contributors from here too, who seem to be staying away from adding their opinion her

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

I read Brion's email. It really worked, I discarded the first draft I wrote in response, with the same tone and some links to grant pages and something about conflict of interest, I was completely prepared to entrench. I came back and re-read but didn't infer anything in Tinu's email to be in the s

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

This is a fantastic email, thanks Theo. When someone decides to lead a movement of people like me, I expect better > from them. Maybe I should expect less. I even had the pleasure of arguing > yesterday, if paid employees should be held to a lower standard. > That is wonderfully expressed. I sup

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Dear Hari, Tinu, and Theo, Thank you for your heartfelt emails; all of them made me think, and want to take this conversation forward. One of the things I do want to say is that despite all the openness within the wiki-universe (and there is loads of it, no question), there are certain assumption

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a >>> construir esse sonho.<http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>* >>> >>> >>> On 15 November 2011 09:37, Joan Goma wrote: >>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:12:42 + >>>>> From: B?ria Lima

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Dear Bishakha, I apologize for intruding in this discussion again as someone who has little knowledge about India and the local situation. I'm myself not entirely convinced that there always should be one organization in one country - but it is out default. That means that if we want to drift off

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > Dear Bishakha, > > I apologize for intruding in this discussion again as someone who has > little knowledge about India and the local situation. > > Your reply made me happy - it broadened the conversation beyond borders, it made me feel we can st

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

;>> *Béria Lima* > >>> <http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484 > >>> > >>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter > >>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a > >>>

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

hi bishaka, many thanks for your mail! i like a lot your attitude a lot to challenge constantly existing ways of thinking and doing :) just let us look on others. our exemplary organizations are not doing anything different than in all other countries: * http://www.indianredcross.org/sb.htm * htt

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Thanks for the reply, Rupert, and for pushing me to think harder. I like that! Without repeating myself and building on your questions, here's what I'll say: I agree that chapters are an important way to take the wikimedia movement forward across the globe. No issues with that. I'm still not conv

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

haha, I like that expression ... need to remember the ear on the ground:) the big problem with a trust is imo, that it is not possible for an ordinary person to get involved in a decisive role. a chapter takes anybody as member and anybody can be elected to its board. rupert On Nov 23, 2011 7:21