[LAD] aBLETON lINK

What is the content of the network packets ? Regardless, I'll ignore software with that technologogy. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev

[LAD] Ableton Link

Hi all, I saw that Supercollider 3.11 beta 1 comes with Ableton Link support https://github.com/supercollider/supercollider/releases/tag/3.11-beta1 I know Rui Nuno Capela is working on Jack Link, a Ableton Link implementation for Jack (Transport). Interesting developments to keep an eye on. Abl

[LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

Hi. Now that Ableton Link has been publically released as GPL, does anyone have any ideas/plans to integrate it into your projects? http://ableton.github.io/link/ /Daniel ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org htt

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

why? On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > What is the content of the network packets ? > > Regardless, I'll ignore software with that technologogy. > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://li

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> why? > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Tito Latini > wrote: > >> What is the content of the network packets ? >> >> Regardless, I'll ignore software with that technologogy. > The OP seems to be suggesting that whoever has access to the data captured by Ableton Link or the potential backdoor

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/19/2016 11:56 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > >> why? >> >> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Tito Latini >> wrote: >> >>> What is the content of the network packets ? >>> >>> Regardless, I'll ignore software with that technologogy. >> > > The OP seems to be suggesting that whoever has access

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On 09/19/2016 11:56 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >> >>> why? >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Tito Latini >>> wrote: >>> What is the content of the network packets ? Regardless, I'll ignore software with that technologogy. >>> >> >> The OP seems to be suggesting that whoeve

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:03:58 +0200, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >Because netjack isn't good enough or cross platform enough or LGPL >enough or adopted enough? Hi, yes, it's not cross platform enough. Audiobus and other iPad apps provide Ableton Link. Jack doesn't run on the iPad anymore, so there u

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:04:53AM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 09/19/2016 11:56 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > > >> why? > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Tito Latini > >> wrote: > >> > >>> What is the content of the network packets ? > >>> > >>> Regardless, I'll ignore software with

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/20/2016 07:03 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > Because netjack isn't good enough correct. jack can have a single timebase master and likewise netjack has a single net-master. Ableton-Link is decentralized: Multiple performers can interact with each other on an equal level (no master/slave

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On 09/20/2016 07:03 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >> >> Because netjack isn't good enough > > correct. > > jack can have a single timebase master and likewise netjack has a single > net-master. > > Ableton-Link is decentralized: Multiple performers can interact with > each other on an equal level (

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, 2016-09-20 at 13:40 +0200, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > Feel free to criticize the protocol on a technical level or hunt > for bugs in the implementation ... or simply ignore it silently. > > > > So then the next question would be is there any reason NOT to > integrate it directly into JACK?

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/20/2016 01:40 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > >> On 09/20/2016 07:03 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >>> >>> Because netjack isn't good enough >> >> correct. >> >> jack can have a single timebase master and likewise netjack has a single >> net-master. >> >> Ableton-Link is decentralized: Multiple pe

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

people still use abelton? geez with NI tractor ns8 I can't imagine or phathom needing a slow antiquated midi based performance piece LOL Ron Stewart On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 09/20/2016 01:40 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > > >> On 09/20/2016 07:03 AM, Patrick Shi

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

The people who designedand wrote Link are entirely familiar with JACK (if only because I taught them about it). I too was a bit disappointed when Link was announced (last Novemeber) because it seemed redundant given JACK transport. But once they released the SDK for iOS and later the code for all

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> The people who designedand wrote Link are entirely familiar with JACK (if > only because I taught them about it). > We know that. So are the people at Google who used JACK as the basic design reference for their attempt at low latency audio. > I too was a bit disappointed when Link was announc

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/20/2016 01:25 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > > Rui already has a working standalone prototype (no timebase support yet, > but it's a good start). > jftr. there's these posted upstream: https://github.com/Ableton/link/pull/5 https://github.com/Ableton/link/pull/6 however, for the time being

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > > The people who designedand wrote Link are entirely familiar with JACK (if > > only because I taught them about it). > > > > We know that. So are the people at Google who used JACK as the basic > design reference for their attempt at lo

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > [... ] > just my 2eur. > with real world exchange rates based on expertise and wisdom, i'd say that's about US$1M's worth of insight. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.lin

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

Thanks, Paul and Rui, very interesting info. On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > >> [... ] >> just my 2eur. >> > > with real world exchange rates based on expertise and wisdom, i'd say > that's about US$1M's worth

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/20/2016 04:08 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Rui Nuno Capela > wrote: > > [... ] > just my 2eur. > > > with real world exchange rates based on expertise and wisdom, i'd say > that's about US$1M's worth of insight. > thanks Paul,

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

Thanks Patrick. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Tue, September 20, 2016 17:03, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/20/2016 01:25 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > >> >> Rui already has a working standalone prototype (no timebase support >> yet, but it's a good start). >> > > jftr. there's these posted upstream: > https://github.com/Ableton/link/pull/5 > h

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

hi, I've posted about Ableton Link a number of times now on LM and LAD but I was never satisfactorily responded to.. Here's my post from LM https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14913 here's the same thing I posed on LAD http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/ableton-link-and-live-tempo-c

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/21/2016 12:24 PM, Perry Nguyen wrote: > I am still vaguely under the impression that if a Timebase master client is > Link-capable then any transport-aware client (e.g. most LAU apps today) > would be able to follow any tempo changes described by the master and > therefore automatically have

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/21/2016 11:24 AM, Perry Nguyen wrote: > > Though after reading your post to LAD a couple times over it seems like > there is possibly overlooked but important incongruity between BPM and > "linear/real-time".. and perhaps that limits the ability of word-clock > time designators like JACK from

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On 09/21/2016 11:24 AM, Perry Nguyen wrote: >> >> Though after reading your post to LAD a couple times over it seems like >> there is possibly overlooked but important incongruity between BPM and >> "linear/real-time".. and perhaps that limits the ability of word-clock >> time designators like J

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > It seems that the lack of interest in adding similar functionality to JACK > has opened up a gap in the "market". > there was no lack of interest, but rather an inability to come up with an abstraction for defining loops and musical tim

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: [...] > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest parts of > the problem (a tempo map with varying meter and tempo). What? I repeat: that's not an innovation. >From Incudine web page [1]: Features [...] * Tem

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > [...] > > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest parts of > > the problem (a tempo map with varying meter and tempo). > > What? > > I repeat: that's not an

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > [...] >> > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest parts of >> > the problem (a tempo map with varying meter and tempo). > What? > > I repeat: that's not an innovation

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:49:42PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > The innovation is defining an API and protocol based on 3 concepts: > > tempo synchronization an integral to get the position with the new bpm > beat alignment ask to live coders > phase alignment related to beat alignme

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 07:58:03PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > [...] > Also coming up with a protocol is the easier part. Documenting it, > pushing it out to users, gaining traction in the industry etc is the > hard part. opus-codec is an example of authentic Art (rfc, code, etc) and not genuflex

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:49:42PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > > The innovation is defining an API and protocol based on 3 concepts: > > > > tempo synchronization > > an integral to get the position with the new bpm > across a network? wit

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On 09/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tito Latini wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: >> [...] >>> > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest parts >>> of >>> > the problem (a tempo map with varying meter and tempo). >> What? >> >> I repeat: that's not

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 04:36:17PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:49:42PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > > > The innovation is defining an API and protocol based on 3 concepts: > > > > > > tempo synchronization > > >

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Thu, 2016-09-22 at 19:58 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > That's pretty cool IMHO and I wish more companies would do that! > > Also coming up with a protocol is the easier part. Documenting it, > pushing it out to users, gaining traction in the industry etc is the > hard part. I agree with this. T

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On Thu, 2016-09-22 at 19:58 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> That's pretty cool IMHO and I wish more companies would do that! >> >> Also coming up with a protocol is the easier part. Documenting it, >> pushing it out to users, gaining traction in the industry etc is the >> hard part. > > I agree wi

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:00:08 +0200, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >> On Thu, 2016-09-22 at 19:58 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >>> That's pretty cool IMHO and I wish more companies would do that! >>> >>> Also coming up with a protocol is the easier part. Documenting it, >>> pushing it out to users, gaini

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

"IMO anyone who doesn't know about JACK and claims to be a professional audio developer has dubious credentials." I think this is an unfounded statement. Many professional audio developers work on Windows with ASIO and are both professional and some of them definitely unaware of JACK. "Keep in mi

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 4:42 AM, Tito Latini wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 04:36:17PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Tito Latini > wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:49:42PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > > > > The innovation is defining an API and protocol

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Patrick Shirkey < pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > > > On 09/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > >> [...] > >>> > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest parts > >>> of

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 6:00 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > I suppose that their marketing department has decided that Linux > Developers/Users don't represent a big enough share of the market to > justify committing more resources to the platform. > You have no idea what their marketing departm

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > There are no fields I know of where open source leads in terms of end-user > visible software applications. > oops. except for web browsers. > ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@l

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 6:00 AM, Patrick Shirkey > > wrote: > >> >> I suppose that their marketing department has decided that Linux >> Developers/Users don't represent a big enough share of the market to >> justify committing more resources to the platform. >> > > You have no idea what their ma

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Patrick Shirkey < pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > > > One can draw reasonable conclusions based on the evidence at hand. > You don't have any evidence other than the absence of evidence. > > > > > How many times is it necessary for someone to explain that

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Patrick Shirkey < > pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > >> >> > On 09/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tito Latini wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 09:16:12AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> > Ableton have now done that, albeit by circumventing the hardest >>

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Patrick Shirkey < pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > > > Because we've done a fucking piss-poor job of licensing, packaging and > > promoting technology in ways that make sense to the overwhelming majority > > of developers and users. > > > > If this is correct

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On 09/23/2016 05:13 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > The last time I was working with such a person was deeply illustrative: a > small technology company doing audio on raspberry pi and beagle boards. > Using JACK. Having an insanely hard time even getting it work. Even with me > sitting in with them. Their

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

Paul, not to derail the conversation, but can you give us a little detail on what kind of problems happen in scenarios outside of the desktop environment? I am just curious. On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Markus Seeber < markus.see...@spectralbird.de> wrote: > On 09/23/2016 05:13 PM, Paul Davis

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Louigi Verona wrote: > Paul, not to derail the conversation, but can you give us a little detail > on what kind of problems happen in scenarios outside of the desktop > environment? I am just curious. > building and installing JACK was hard. making it work with t

Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

On Fri, 2016-09-23 at 13:00 +0200, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > I suppose that their marketing department has decided that Linux > Developers/Users don't represent a big enough share of the market to > justify committing more resources to the platform. > > However JACK also runs on the other two main

Re: [LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

On 09/15/2016 11:58 AM, Daniel Swärd wrote: > Hi. > > Now that Ableton Link has been publically released as GPL, does anyone > have any ideas/plans to integrate it into your projects? > > http://ableton.github.io/link/ > i do (qtractor) cheers -- rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela __

Re: [LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

It will definitely be on a list for Ardour somewhere. Right now my Ableton-related activities with Ardour relate to fairly deep support of their Push 2 surface rather than Link. It would certainly be nice to see Link support, but not sure what the priority will be. I have another entirely new branc

Re: [LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

Hi GSequencer is pure C may be doing a C interface to communicate with such applications or devices. cheers, Joël On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > It will definitely be on a list for Ardour somewhere. Right now my > Ableton-related activities with Ardour relate to fairly d

Re: [LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

On 09/15/2016 03:33 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/15/2016 11:58 AM, Daniel Swärd wrote: >> Hi. >> >> Now that Ableton Link has been publically released as GPL, does anyone >> have any ideas/plans to integrate it into your projects? >> >> http://ableton.github.io/link/ >> > > i do (qtractor) >

Re: [LAD] Ableton Link GPL...

> On 09/15/2016 03:33 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> On 09/15/2016 11:58 AM, Daniel Swärd wrote: >>> >>> Now that Ableton Link has been publically released as GPL, does anyone >>> have any ideas/plans to integrate it into your projects? >>> >>> http://ableton.github.io/link/ >> >> i do (qtractor) >>

[LAD] ableton link and live tempo changing

Hi, I'm Perry, also I'm tatch on linuxmusicians if you've ever been there. I posted this message on LM a while ago but was encouraged by falktx to post this to LAD. so that is what I am doing now (here is the original topic). not sure if you’ve r