Re: meeting network

> The hotel will never refund at that level. ietf maastricht gave 100% refunds never say never

Re: meeting network

--- >> From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.li...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:36 PM >> Cc: North American Network Operators' Group >> Subject: Re: meeting network >> >> On 10/10/11 7:00 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>> It would be wise for NA

Re: meeting network

Once upon a time, Nick Hilliard said: > There is nothing more dispiriting than "yeah sure, you can pull in that > fibre cable, but only on condition that you remove it immediately after the > [conference|meeting|whatever] is over. We already have the Internet". I would say the situation depends

RE: meeting network

t business. Frank -Original Message- From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:26 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: meeting network On 10/10/11 3:41 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > Holding the last 10% of the meeting room payment seems like a good start fo

Re: meeting network

Sent from my iPad On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:48, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 11/10/2011 14:12, John Curran wrote: >> is far better today then in the past, as there have been many conferences >> over the years where step 1 was pulling the coax or fiber through the >> hotel to establish their first-e

Re: meeting network

Maybe instead of upgrading the network of cities, we could convince Google to practice by upgrading the networks of a variety of hotels in locations that NANOG might find appealing :) On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 11/10/2011 14:12, John Curran wrote: > > is far bett

Re: meeting network

On 11/10/2011 14:12, John Curran wrote: > is far better today then in the past, as there have been many conferences > over the years where step 1 was pulling the coax or fiber through the > hotel to establish their first-ever network infrastructure... :-) There is nothing more dispiriting than "

Re: meeting network

On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > On Oct 10, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Joel jaeggli wrote: >> On 10/10/11 07:00 , Owen DeLong wrote: >> >>> It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically >>> discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead >>> of

Re: meeting network

On Oct 10, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Joel jaeggli wrote: > On 10/10/11 07:00 , Owen DeLong wrote: > >> It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically >> discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead >> of time so that they have some remote chance of being p

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/11 3:41 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: Holding the last 10% of the meeting room payment seems like a good start for any venue. It's worthless. It's like being single-homed on a line with an SLA that refunds some small percent of your service provider fee for extended outages - fat lot of good

Re: meeting network

> The hotel IT department is the guy who runs the as400 that gets > reservations from corprate, and runs the POS terminals. > > the room-net is by-in-large run by a third party such as lodgenet. here at the lovely and reasonably priced loews, the dhcp disaster in the rooms killed the front desk

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/11 07:00 , Owen DeLong wrote: > It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically > discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead > of time so that they have some remote chance of being prepared. The hotel IT department is the guy who runs the a

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/11 21:25 , Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:36 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> I don't think it is. I think that you can negotiate and I will point out >> that the hotel >> here has wanted our business enough that they have now scrambled to make >> life significantly bett

Re: meeting network

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:36 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > I don't think it is. I think that you can negotiate and I will point out that > the hotel > here has wanted our business enough that they have now scrambled to make > life significantly better. You can also bet I'll be demanding that they >

Re: meeting network

> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:36 PM > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: meeting network > > On 10/10/11 7:00 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically > discuss these things with t

Re: meeting network

- Original Message - > From: "Owen DeLong" > It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically > discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead > of time so that they have some remote chance of being prepared. It is nearly never "the hotel's IT d

Re: meeting network

- Original Message - > From: "Christopher Morrow" > As to the hotel room wifi... apparently when you have 490 rooms in the > hotel (full) and only provision your internal NAT space as a /23 ... > things work 'fine' most days. When a networking conference comes to > visit with 3+ devices r

RE: meeting network

Years ago, on my own, when I used to attend, I used to call the venue about a month in advance and explain to them what was about to happen. Sort of a warning, per say. I explained, in detail, who NANOG was comprised of (I often would use the term "operators of the internet"). I explained even i

RE: meeting network

, October 10, 2011 1:36 PM Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: meeting network On 10/10/11 7:00 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead of time so that t

RE: meeting network

.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:36 AM Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: meeting network On 10/10/11 7:00 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically discuss > these things with the hotel IT depa

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/11 7:00 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: It would be wise for NANOG to approach future venues and specifically discuss these things with the hotel IT departments in question ahead of time so that they have some remote chance of being prepared. I tried this approach many years ago, for a Bloghe

Re: meeting network

conceive of it. ietf, apricot, ... have >>> seen this time and time again >>> >>> o the hotel does not manage the network, so you have two comms >>> hops >>> to anyone who can do anything. and anyway, they are not going >>> to >>> provision more bandwidth >>> >>> but the problems of which i spoke were the meeting network. which >>> we >>> do supposedly control. >>> >>> randy >>> >>> >>> >> >>

Re: meeting network

Sorry, talking about the hotel network now. -Randy - Original Message - > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Randy Carpenter > wrote: > > > > I have been at other conference that have triple or more > > participants, and it has never been anything close to the issues > > we are having a

Re: meeting network

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > I have been at other conference that have triple or more participants, and it > has never been anything close to the issues we are having at this hotel. > Slightly slower performance is expected. Completely not working is not. hotel or

Re: meeting network

sult in a smaller bill if not met. > > > > Frank > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] > > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:44 AM > > To: Randy Carpenter > > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > &

Re: meeting network

bill if not met. > > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:44 AM > To: Randy Carpenter > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: meeting network > >> I would

RE: meeting network

Group Subject: Re: meeting network > I would think that the contract with the hotel for the conference > would include the specific requirements for the network. Is that not > the case? underlying problems o no hotel believe that we'll actually be significantly high use.

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/11 10:20 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: I would think that the contract with the hotel for the conference would include the specific requirements for the network. Is that not the case? My experiences planning and operating ARIN meeting networks taught me that it is difficult if not impos

Re: meeting network

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:44:12 EDT, Randy Bush said: > o no hotel believe that we'll actually be significantly high use. > they simply can not conceive of it. ietf, apricot, ... have > seen this time and time again To be fair, that's not a hotel-only problem. We've seen that problem w

RE: meeting network

o no hotel believe that we'll actually be significantly high use. they simply can not conceive of it. ietf, apricot, ... have seen this time and time again WEG] this is a problem that is quite solvable via the careful application of real data from past events I assume most of these con

Re: meeting network

VPN traffic was also slow / bursty. So I guess there's some capacity issues as well as layer 7 cruft. On Oct 10, 2011 10:20 AM, "Randy Carpenter" wrote: On the hotel network, I have also seen some issues beyond getting an address. I can usually trace just fine, but applications, specifically web

Re: meeting network

> Conjecturbation: They're using an old proteon router and someone is > exhausting its arp and ndp caches. i wanna picture!

Re: meeting network

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Randy Bush wrote: if it's wifi that's causing the trouble, the usual causes are: is the complaint the hotel ROOM wireless? or the meeting-room? meeting net, a-secure and a. really bad during the night, but still bouncing up until 08:30 when i turned laptop off to partici

Re: meeting network

ietf, apricot, ... have seen this time and time again o the hotel does not manage the network, so you have two comms hops to anyone who can do anything. and anyway, they are not going to provision more bandwidth but the problems of which i spoke were the meeting network. which we

Re: meeting network

On the hotel network, I have also seen some issues beyond getting an address. I can usually trace just fine, but applications, specifically web is extremely slow, or non responsive. The hotel appears to be shoving all traffic through a squid proxy, which does not appear to be big enough to handl

Re: meeting network

On Oct 10, 2011, at 6:50 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Dobbins, Roland wrote: >> On Oct 10, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: >> >>> if it's wifi that's causing the trouble, the usual causes are: > > is the complaint the hotel ROOM wireless? or the meeti

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/2011 14:50, Christopher Morrow wrote: > hotel registration machines were all broken :( The hotel's network > people (in NYC) are supposedly 'on a fix', who knows... (is expanding > the nat subnet THAT hard?) Sigh, if only there were people somewhere near the hotel who knew how to configur

Re: meeting network

On Oct 10, 2011, at 8:46 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 10/10/2011 13:28, Randy Bush wrote: >> perhaps as an educational exercise in network troubleshooting whoever is >> operating the meeting network could explain what the frack is wrong with >> the meeting network, how it i

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/2011 13:28, Randy Bush wrote: >> perhaps as an educational exercise in network troubleshooting whoever is >> operating the meeting network could explain what the frack is wrong with >> the meeting network, how it is being debugged, and what they have >> learned about

Re: meeting network

>>> if it's wifi that's causing the trouble, the usual causes are: > is the complaint the hotel ROOM wireless? or the meeting-room? meeting net, a-secure and a. really bad during the night, but still bouncing up until 08:30 when i turned laptop off to participate in breakfast. and conjecturbatio

Re: meeting network

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Dobbins, Roland wrote: > On Oct 10, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > >> if it's wifi that's causing the trouble, the usual causes are: is the complaint the hotel ROOM wireless? or the meeting-room? I noticed the nanog-a-secure bounce me 2x, so I moved back

Re: meeting network

On Oct 10, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > if it's wifi that's causing the trouble, the usual causes are: Don't forget RFI and various forms of spoofing used for MITM. ;> --- Roland Dobbins //

Re: meeting network

On 10/10/2011 13:28, Randy Bush wrote: > perhaps as an educational exercise in network troubleshooting whoever is > operating the meeting network could explain what the frack is wrong with > the meeting network, how it is being debugged, and what they have > learned about the cause of

meeting network

perhaps as an educational exercise in network troubleshooting whoever is operating the meeting network could explain what the frack is wrong with the meeting network, how it is being debugged, and what they have learned about the cause of the suckage. randy