Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
I have this new release: http://www.discogs.com/release/1073327 This is a reissue of classic tracks from Ferox and Russ Gabriel. Absolutely brilliant. ben thompson wrote: i have a Too funk release of ferox from the 1995 http://www.discogs.com/release/62572 that i loved. hope this is as good.anyone heard yet? On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:53, Jussi Lehtonen wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself. .
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
i have a Too funk release of ferox from the 1995 http://www.discogs.com/release/62572 that i loved. hope this is as good.anyone heard yet? On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:53, Jussi Lehtonen wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself.
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
On Nov 2, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Martin Dust wrote: get some quarters and a jukebox. That's hardly democracy. Last time I spent money on a jukebox, some other dude with more quarters spent like 10 bucks bumping all his stuff to the top to prevent me from playing Massive Attack again. OK, I guess that IS like democracy. -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: (313) have we run out of reality?
... In America Martin, yes, where money=votes! -Original Message- From: Matt Kane's Brain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 11:14 To: Martin Dust Cc: 313 Distribution List Subject: Re: (313) have we run out of reality? On Nov 2, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Martin Dust wrote: get some quarters and a jukebox. That's hardly democracy. Last time I spent money on a jukebox, some other dude with more quarters spent like 10 bucks bumping all his stuff to the top to prevent me from playing Massive Attack again. OK, I guess that IS like democracy. -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
And this is exactly what would happen on a dance floor with any good dancers. And knowing a few dancers they'd turn up at an event where they knew their bodies were creating the sound and eventually you'd have another dance circle. All the good dancers in the middle - showing off one at a time - and everyone else standing around watching. MEK Matt Kane's Brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/02/2007 06:14:09 AM: On Nov 2, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Martin Dust wrote: get some quarters and a jukebox. That's hardly democracy. Last time I spent money on a jukebox, some other dude with more quarters spent like 10 bucks bumping all his stuff to the top to prevent me from playing Massive Attack again. OK, I guess that IS like democracy. -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
Its a complex chain of affairs .. but is the artist the person who records the record or the person who builds the sound system? Or is it the Dj who plays the record or the Engineer who tunes the system and the frequencies that you hear. It's all of them - if they do it right. Problem is, few good sound system designers exist. Raves have been a black hole of good sound system design. Line up a bunch of speakers into a single wall and blast it as loud as you can has been the rave motto for ages. Our societies have ways of isolating these roles and giving one moreimportance over the other .. but if one role can't exist with out the other .. which is really more important. eh? I think those that know speak of all of the legendary DJs/engineer/sound system designers in the same breath. Where would Larry Levan be without Richard Long? Nicky Siano and David Mancuso without Alex Rosner? See, the BIG problem is the entire rave culture was outside of the original DJ nightclub thing (especially the legendary NYC gay nightclubs). I've argued countless times with local raves who just Do Not Get It. They tell me lasers and other bs are just as important as a sound system which is complete bull crap. They don't understand the importance of sound and how it translates into an experience that can send people into outerspace. Raves were disassociated from the discos and as a result you've had to deal with people who don't get it. As far as I'm concerned they are two totally different cultures with different histories with only occasional cross-over. However, one does not translate well into the other. I see more DJs from the disco world being asked to perform at raves than I see rave DJs being asked to perform at the discos that know. MEK
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
I'm getting tired of people saying It's all been done. It hasn't all been done. I'm 50 years old, and the world I grew up in doesn't exist any more. In a lot of ways, maybe music still repeats existing patterns, maybe people still have to learn to get along with their signficant others families neighbors the same way they always did. But in 1969, it wasn't just that we didn't have laptops, or drum machines, or TB303s, or dance events as they're now known. We couldn't even envision such a thing. We were just getting used to the possibilities of multitrack recording. Many, if not most, televisions were black and white and you were lucky to get 4 channels. A lot of things that are central to people's lives now didn't even exist in 1969. If you say It's all been done before really means something to a greater or lesser extent similar to what happened before is happening again. And it happens in a completely different context, which changes how one perceives it. The point being, Joshua Bell playing Bach on a 300 year old Stradivarius in Carnegie Hall is not the same thing as someone playing the same piece on the same vioin when it was new. Seeing (as I did recently) Rhys Chatham performing his Guitar Trio in 2007 isn't the same thing as Rhys Chatham peforming the piece in downtown NYC in 1971. I wish people would stop obsessing over what's NEW and worry about what's GOOD.
Re: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week
Skatter will put it up next week Rob, so just check back on that second link in a week or so... m On 2 Nov 2007, at 14:40, Robert Taylor wrote: Brilliant - does anyone know where I get October's mix? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 13:02 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week The new mix from Rob Hall, one of my favourite DJ's http://www.rob-hall.co.uk if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio Pinch - Underwater Dancehall Cloaks EP on Werk Discs and these Mick Harris interviews: http://matt.vkool.com/harrisdoc.html m ## ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 ## ###
RE: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week
Brilliant - does anyone know where I get October's mix? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 13:02 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week The new mix from Rob Hall, one of my favourite DJ's http://www.rob-hall.co.uk if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio Pinch - Underwater Dancehall Cloaks EP on Werk Discs and these Mick Harris interviews: http://matt.vkool.com/harrisdoc.html m # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 #
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
We've got releases coming on Down Low by a former Ferox artist. He released as Rei Mitsui on Ferox, and also had a stunning record on Russ' short-lived Player imprint as Nebraska. Nebraska - Vicarious Disco 12 feat two Soul 223 remixes - dL-014 --releasedate Nov. 15th Nebraska - Mixed Up Music For Mixed Up People - dLNEBLP/dLNEBCD -- releasedate Feb. 2008 JT On 11/1/07, Jussi Lehtonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself.
Re: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week
ah thanks for that. i've been looking for 1-3. rob hall is amazing. i'll have to check out that pinch disc. -nick On Nov 2, 2007 6:01 AM, Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
Woo, I look forward to that. Soul 223 mixes too. Wicked. robin... We've got releases coming on Down Low by a former Ferox artist. He released as Rei Mitsui on Ferox, and also had a stunning record on Russ' short-lived Player imprint as Nebraska. Nebraska - Vicarious Disco 12 feat two Soul 223 remixes - dL-014 --releasedate Nov. 15th Nebraska - Mixed Up Music For Mixed Up People - dLNEBLP/dLNEBCD -- releasedate Feb. 2008
Re: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week
Yeah, he's only up to number 7 at the minute, all well worth getting. m On 2 Nov 2007, at 14:44, Robert Taylor wrote: Fantastic, cheers Martin - will that be all of them then? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 14:50 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: Re: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week Skatter will put it up next week Rob, so just check back on that second link in a week or so... m On 2 Nov 2007, at 14:40, Robert Taylor wrote: Brilliant - does anyone know where I get October's mix? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 13:02 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week The new mix from Rob Hall, one of my favourite DJ's http://www.rob-hall.co.uk if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio Pinch - Underwater Dancehall Cloaks EP on Werk Discs and these Mick Harris interviews: http://matt.vkool.com/harrisdoc.html m # # ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 # # ### ## ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 ## ###
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
On 2 Nov 2007, at 11:14, Matt Kane's Brain wrote: On Nov 2, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Martin Dust wrote: get some quarters and a jukebox. That's hardly democracy. I say screw democracy when it comes to music, no one is ever going to erect a statue to a committee and the Wright brothers never had a pilots license either, balls to it. Last time I spent money on a jukebox, some other dude with more quarters spent like 10 bucks bumping all his stuff to the top to prevent me from playing Massive Attack again. That's the politics of the jukebox tho :) OK, I guess that IS like democracy. As close as you'll probably get. m
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
Yes. I like more REAL minimal sound of Ferox like Precession for example: http://www.discogs.com/release/6133 And in Hawtin's mix selection tracks from Ferox absolutely excellent. I think Mixmag #20 his best mix maybe with Decks, FX 909... Dmitry, www.mixmag.ru http://www.myspace.com/subborg Paul Kendrick wrote: The reissue 12 had a couple of classic tracks on it and nearly everything that Russ Gabriel does is excellent. Most of the stuff on ferox is wicked, it was minimal before the current minimal sound you get today, if you have a look at the track list on this http://www.discogs.com/release/75030 there is loads on Ferox stuff on it, it sums up that period really well.. Most of the stuff on the label is tip top. http://www.discogs.com/release/17543 http://www.discogs.com/release/17991 Both wicked -Original Message- From: Dmitry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 08:43 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases I have this new release: http://www.discogs.com/release/1073327 This is a reissue of classic tracks from Ferox and Russ Gabriel. Absolutely brilliant. ben thompson wrote: i have a Too funk release of ferox from the 1995 http://www.discogs.com/release/62572 that i loved. hope this is as good.anyone heard yet? On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:53, Jussi Lehtonen wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself. .
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
I suppose I see limitations in the singular Dj as a bio feedback sensor. At least I don't herald the the role of the Dj as much as I used to. there's going to be limitations in any situation it's what you do within those limitations that matter Besides .. what I am suggesting is to providing a Dj more input sources to work more information to manipulate. Real-time organic inputs that are a result of the situation that is occuring. Then shifting their position as the central figure to one that perhaps working in collaboration with many other to facilitating the audience experience. right, understand - and this is already done and has been done for ages see my last comment (I'm working backwards up this post) Haven't we been through the whole exercise as Dj being God! only those who have the misfortune of thinking that way have been through that exercise Maybe we will end up like the chess world where we try to build a machine that can mix better the Jeff Mills ?? you can find videos of DJ machines on youtube http://youtube.com/watch?v=TfDbyaVOMf0 http://youtube.com/watch?v=2cwtS7_f8cM problem is, chess can be broken down to a mathematical process DJing cannot - no matter how much programming you put into it - that's the soul thing that people always mention I suppose it all depends though on what a person considers to be a good DJ. Some like extreme surgical precision. Others, like Tom and myself, prefer to hear the human behind the records. I'm not particularly interested in the ultimate machine DJ. But I am interested in where technology can take the performance of music. I could see the concept, if executed correctly, being a load of fun but in the end a novelty. Others might latch on to it like a baby to a mother's teat. I study my history as well. However as a generation, Rave was our way of capturing the process and finding our own interpretations for mass celebration. Why are we not allowed to claim some ownership and involvement with how we control our environments? If everything has happened before and there is nothing new under the sun, then where am I supposed to locate myself as a free thinking individual. You are prescribing me a role of either being the artist or the audience. With this concept you've drawn up this situation hasn't been eliminated though. There are still a clearly set group of controllers and the audience interacts within the environment that has been set up for them. It might seem like the autonomy has been pushed back further but I don't think it really has. What's wrong with removing this separation? Whats wrong with blurring the line between who is in control and who is being controlled? Funny that you think the DJ isn't being controlled by his/her audience. Ever see a DJ clear a floor and then dig for a record that will bring them all back on. The control (I prefer communication) goes back and forth in a good situation. One of the documented and often celebrated aspects of original rave culture was how it made everyone part of the experience. People revelled in the idea that their presence in the dance was significant. Raves don't have a corner on that market. It was new to those who hadn't experienced that before. However, raves were not where it began in the 20th Century. The early inspirations of dance music reflected this positive enthusiasm. The music responded to and initiated the tribal, collective nature of the dance. The shift away from ego centric front of house production enlightened people in a way that was reminiscent of beating drums around a fire ?? Why is it such a challenge to suggest we continue to explore this more collective energy in the music? sorry, this all calls to mind raver psytrance type cyber-hippy talk You are arguing that you want to experience the artist in the music, yet you are also saying that the artist is a feedback filter to the audience. So why not open up this process reduce the mediation and increase the feedback? because not everyone has something to say nor can they express it very well that's why in tribal groups you have dedicated drummers - because they understand rhythm and the drum you have dedicated dancers - because they have a knowledge of body and movement you have dedicated singers - because they have a voice that others appreciate not having that ability is not a bad thing however I don't see how getting everyone involved is going to really make it any better take a look at the number of crap records in record shops and you can clearly see that not everyone can do it very well nor should they there's a few people I've seen dancing that I think we're all better off not having their movements translated into sound thank you ;-) If technology is enabling us to reproduce, trigger, sample, filter, effect and manipulate music in increasingly complex ways.. why could an artist or group of artists not be enabled to enable the audience to
RE: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week
Fantastic, cheers Martin - will that be all of them then? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 14:50 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: Re: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week Skatter will put it up next week Rob, so just check back on that second link in a week or so... m On 2 Nov 2007, at 14:40, Robert Taylor wrote: Brilliant - does anyone know where I get October's mix? Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 13:02 To: 313 Distribution List Subject: (313) Rocking My Boat This Week The new mix from Rob Hall, one of my favourite DJ's http://www.rob-hall.co.uk if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio Pinch - Underwater Dancehall Cloaks EP on Werk Discs and these Mick Harris interviews: http://matt.vkool.com/harrisdoc.html m ## ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 ## ### # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 #
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:33:20AM -0400, JT Stewart wrote: We've got releases coming on Down Low by a former Ferox artist. He released as Rei Mitsui on Ferox, and also had a stunning record on Russ' short-lived Player imprint as Nebraska. JT, Is this co-produced by James Mason as the Rei Mitsui on Ferox? Sounds exciting anyway. G -- Guilherme Menegon Arantes, PhD São Paulo, Brasil __
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
Yes. I like more REAL minimal sound of Ferox like Precession for example: http://www.discogs.com/release/6133 And in Hawtin's mix selection tracks from Ferox absolutely excellent. I think Mixmag #20 his best mix maybe with Decks, FX 909... Dmitry, www.mixmag.ru http://www.myspace.com/subborg Paul Kendrick wrote: The reissue 12 had a couple of classic tracks on it and nearly everything that Russ Gabriel does is excellent. Most of the stuff on ferox is wicked, it was minimal before the current minimal sound you get today, if you have a look at the track list on this http://www.discogs.com/release/75030 there is loads on Ferox stuff on it, it sums up that period really well.. Most of the stuff on the label is tip top. http://www.discogs.com/release/17543 http://www.discogs.com/release/17991 Both wicked -Original Message- From: Dmitry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 08:43 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases I have this new release: http://www.discogs.com/release/1073327 This is a reissue of classic tracks from Ferox and Russ Gabriel. Absolutely brilliant. ben thompson wrote: i have a Too funk release of ferox from the 1995 http://www.discogs.com/release/62572 that i loved. hope this is as good.anyone heard yet? On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:53, Jussi Lehtonen wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself. .
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
On 2 Nov 2007, at 12:29, Odeluga, Ken wrote: ... In America Martin, yes, where money=votes! Money and Lies more like, the UK is no different - apathy rules and your rights can go take a running jump if you ask me. m
(313) Rocking My Boat This Week
The new mix from Rob Hall, one of my favourite DJ's http://www.rob-hall.co.uk if you've missed some of his mixes you can grab them from here: http://www.skkatter.net/audio Pinch - Underwater Dancehall Cloaks EP on Werk Discs and these Mick Harris interviews: http://matt.vkool.com/harrisdoc.html m
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
With the greatest respect this sounds like something off Tomorrows World in the 1970's :) Give me a good DJ, a chunk of darkness and perhaps a strobe, that's enough for me. All this suggests is that music and djing is some kind of community democracy, I shudder at the very thought of that, if that's what you want - get some quarters and a jukebox. m On 2 Nov 2007, at 01:49, still want to wrote: well, you either have a person being the control mechanism (DJ) who can observe the room, take in emotional levels, combine them with her/ his own, and spit back out something unexpected (like stopping the music and telling a story to the audience that has some relevance to what's going on) or you have a machine take in parameters, numbers, equations, and mix them with something that has been programmed into it (and a slower learning curve) and then spitting it back out hopefully matching where an audience wants to go I was very inspired by sci -fi writer Paul J. McAuley who described a future rave where multiple VJ/DJ people controlled extensive banks of bio feedback sensors .. in this system everyone in the audience provides input and everyone is able to filter and feedback the input sources onto the system which is an interconnected series of sound systems, holographic projectors, lasers and lights. There is no specific centre to the situation .. it is a sprawling massive of vibe which he calls the constant Wave. It was one of the more interesting future account of a rave that I had ever read. http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue33/books.html
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
Well ... to my knowledge some of the PA setups that we were using in the early 90's had never been done before. Maybe they don't do it where you guys are. But here rave systems are setup so that all the speakers face towards the centre. The sound surround the dance floor and envelopes the audience from all sides. No other event that uses amplified sound for music will do this usually. Have a read of Tim Lawrence's Love Saves the Day and read about some of the disco sound systems of the 70s. However, I take your point that maybe with raves this kind of setup became more widespead and that the sound system (the whole setup not just the equipment) is more important than people give it credit. Here in Manchester (UK) no-one takes the sound seriously and I'm slightly disillusioned about going to parties as a result. A lot of the DJs are lazy too which does help either (but that's a whole other rant). I have even DJ'd for people and instead of getting paid actually paid to have the soundsystem beefed up. It's a shame no-one else seems that bothered. The music I love means nothing without a decent system. robin...
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
On 11/2/07, still want to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose I see limitations in the singular Dj as a bio feedback sensor. At least I don't herald the the role of the Dj as much as I used to. why? what has changed? seen too many crappy deejays? Besides .. what I am suggesting is to providing a Dj more input sources to work more information to manipulate. Real-time organic inputs that are a result of the situation that is occuring. Then shifting their position as the central figure to one that perhaps working in collaboration with many other to facilitating the audience experience. but that is already EXACTLY what happens. Haven't we been through the whole exercise as Dj being God! im not sure how what i have said can be interpreted as such. in fact, i said many things exaxctly contrary to that idea. Maybe we will end up like the chess world where we try to build a machine that can mix better the Jeff Mills ?? I'm not particularly interested in the ultimate machine DJ. But I am interested in where technology can take the performance of music. based on what, though? its been years of serato, final scratch, ableton live, etc etc and none of them have produced an experience greater than someone with a good set of records and some soul interacting with a good crowd. why is it that this way can't be the best way? If everything has happened before and there is nothing new under the sun, then where am I supposed to locate myself as a free thinking individual. why do you care?!?! i just dont understand this philosophy: i must be different simply because i can be. You are prescribing me a role of either being the artist or the audience. and the problem with this is? What's wrong with removing this separation? Whats wrong with blurring the line between who is in control and who is being controlled? because those lines are already as blurred in a deejay set as they can be. it all works together flawlessly. i dont want joe blow who doesn't know jack sh*t about music controlling *my* experience. i want the person whose job it is to be awesome at deejaying to be able to do his own thing in conjunction with the energy from the crowd. One of the documented and often celebrated aspects of original rave culture was how it made everyone part of the experience. People revelled in the idea that their presence in the dance was significant. this was not new. as someone else mentioned, you simply must read love saves the day, these ideas were what disco culture was built upon going back to the ealy 70's! The music responded to and initiated the tribal, collective nature of the dance. The shift away from ego centric front of house production enlightened people in a way that was reminiscent of beating drums around a fire ?? Why is it such a challenge to suggest we continue to explore this more collective energy in the music? its been explored! as you say, this whole idea goes back to some of the most primitive forms of music and musical interaction. You are arguing that you want to experience the artist in the music, yet you are also saying that the artist is a feedback filter to the audience. So why not open up this process reduce the mediation and increase the feedback? in a feedback system, you need to be very precise about what you are measuring and how you then correct it. its not a hey, lets cram as many sensors in this as possible and see what we can come up with. maybe this system can control itself!. thats just not how it works, not every variable matters, not every idea is going to be a good one. If technology is enabling us to reproduce, trigger, sample, filter, effect and manipulate music in increasingly complex ways.. why could an artist or group of artists not be enabled to enable the audience to be in control of their own experience . because i dont trust 99% of the people who are already in charge of the music in a club, the supposed deejays, and their job is to understand how to do this properly. and if they cant do it, what makes you think that adding the input of every single person is going to suddenly make it better? youre going to constantly end up with least common denominator crap. the beauty of the real deejay who knows what he is doing is that he knows how to give what people want and expect but also at the same time give them other things that they dont know or expect. In an advanced way this is continuing to take music back to its roots, where everyone was a contributor to the rhythm. Where all the voices in the village made the melody together. this already happens. Why not break down this continual separation and isolation of people from each other. Sure its challenging, slightly feral, non-commercial way to think .. this already happens. But in a world where nothing is new, and everything has been done .. then maybe this is something that we could do with all our latest toys .. which is to go all the
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
(yes, do excuse us please, we haven't run out of music ; ) ) Thanks for that guys, sounds amazing. Re the long reverb thing, the water reservoir in Cologne had a 45 second reverb as well and the producer of Vor Der Flut writes that the 'intensity is due to the extremely hard, water-impermeable coating on the walls and pillars, which stops the sound from being absorbed, reflecting it with almost no loss intensity.' Looks like the Deep Listening collaboration experienced something quite similar. These gongs fascinated me recently when I went to Kassel for the Dokumenta XII: http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1130044742channel=1080171031 On 1 Nov 2007, at 17:03, Nik Stoltzman wrote: YAY! I do believe that's it! http://www.newalbion.com/NA022/ I will have to check out the samples online to confirm, but the description is spot on - the 45 second reverb definitely rings a bell. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. N Possibly a Pauline Oliveros/Stewart Dempster collaboration? They did some things with trombones in large metal containers - possibly grain silos or water tanks. This might be what you're thinking of. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com www.myspace.com/dennisdesantis Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nik Stoltzman wrote: (excuse this little side-conversation) No, that's not it - but that also sounds worth checking out! This thing was definitely *not* jazzy and I don't think it was broken down into tracks. The piece I heard was about 30 minutes long. Or maybe it was actually one minute long and the rest was echoes choes hoes oes es s..? N Very interesting thread this! Nik, that composition... It wouldn't be Vor der Flut - Hommage an einen Wasserspeicher would it? It's this fab recording made in an old water 'silo' in Cologne/Germany in 1984, just before the flooding. I've been trying to find info online but it's all (or mostly anyway) in German. Here's a site with a clip http:// www.magicmusic.de/shop/de/act/cd/arg/6740/ and here it is on Discogs http://www.discogs.com/release/1123083 If this is what you were thinking of I could be persuaded to scan the album liner notes, which are in both German and English. I totally love this album and played the A side almost in its entirety it at our last party in September. : ) Anya On 1 Nov 2007, at 11:34, Nik Stoltzman wrote: Not unprecedented. There are pieces that are centuries old that call for brass players positioned all over the auditorium/cathedral/ whatever. Sorry to hijack the thread (which, incidentally, is very interesting) temporarily, but this reminds me of a composition I heard once and have been trying to track down ever since. It was written and arranged to be played in an underground grain silo. I can't remember the composer. Basically, the concept was a number of horn players arranged in a circle around the perimeter of the circular silo, with the conductor in the centre. Each musician would perform short stabs such that the echo within the chamber (which could be timed quite accurately) would allow them to build layers of sound. I'd love to know what it was. Any clues or leads? Peace, N P.S: OT: Any Londoners going to The Cinematic Orchestra gig tomorrow?
RE: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
The reissue 12 had a couple of classic tracks on it and nearly everything that Russ Gabriel does is excellent. Most of the stuff on ferox is wicked, it was minimal before the current minimal sound you get today, if you have a look at the track list on this http://www.discogs.com/release/75030 there is loads on Ferox stuff on it, it sums up that period really well.. Most of the stuff on the label is tip top. http://www.discogs.com/release/17543 http://www.discogs.com/release/17991 Both wicked -Original Message- From: Dmitry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2007 08:43 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases I have this new release: http://www.discogs.com/release/1073327 This is a reissue of classic tracks from Ferox and Russ Gabriel. Absolutely brilliant. ben thompson wrote: i have a Too funk release of ferox from the 1995 http://www.discogs.com/release/62572 that i loved. hope this is as good.anyone heard yet? On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:53, Jussi Lehtonen wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself. .
Re: (313) have we run out of reality?
It is an intriguing idea, I do agree with that. However, the whole thing about removing the ego is canceled out by multiple VJ/DJ people controlling the banks of bio feedback sensors. What you would accomplish by this is taking out the one ego and replacing it with a small group of egos - which can be even more elitist and excluding than a single DJ. If they are controlling the feedback, is it safe to assume they are selecting and manipulating what sounds the dancers are making via their movement/emotions? If so, then aren't the controllers injecting their egos into their performance or the control of the performance? I could imagine that after a while the accusations of egotism often leveled at DJs would just shift to the controllers of extensive banks of bio feedback sensors. That said, there is a couple, I think in Amsterdam, that make experimental instruments, one of which is a massive Theramin type dance floor. I'll see if I can find their website. I think you'd find it very interesting. MEK still want to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/01/2007 08:49:45 PM: well, you either have a person being the control mechanism (DJ) who can observe the room, take in emotional levels, combine them with her/his own, and spit back out something unexpected (like stopping the music and telling a story to the audience that has some relevance to what's going on) or you have a machine take in parameters, numbers, equations, and mix them with something that has been programmed into it (and a slower learning curve) and then spitting it back out hopefully matching where an audience wants to go I was very inspired by sci -fi writer Paul J. McAuley who described a future rave where multiple VJ/DJ people controlled extensive banks of bio feedback sensors .. in this system everyone in the audience provides input and everyone is able to filter and feedback the input sources onto the system which is an interconnected series of sound systems, holographic projectors, lasers and lights. There is no specific centre to the situation .. it is a sprawling massive of vibe which he calls the constant Wave. It was one of the more interesting future account of a rave that I had ever read. http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue33/books.html .. While I respect the right of a few aficionados on the list to protect their view of reality around music. My history runs deep into the cultures of rave and sound systems that rally the audiences for electronic music and I continue to find interest in the ways that these communities form and evolve. In my area, raving developed completely new music audiences and ways of experiencing music. While this format may have become settled in recent years, I still think its interesting to push and progress the format. I know that the rave experience has inspired many artist in their work. My approach is to continue to create new types of environments both technical and social that can stimulate new ideas in culture. The fact that this might present a challenge to the status quo is a good thing! .simon
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
I hope it does come out on vinyl. I've had Aubrey on myspace as well, speaking of Ferox peeps, and he's got new cuts but they all seem to be just digital files. They're really good too and I wish he'd cut them on wax. MEK Jussi Lehtonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/01/2007 06:53:51 PM: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself.
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
oh, oh oh oh, oh YEAH! two of my most favorite labels meeting together like this? I'm going to go change my underwear now. MEK JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/02/2007 08:33:20 AM: We've got releases coming on Down Low by a former Ferox artist. He released as Rei Mitsui on Ferox, and also had a stunning record on Russ' short-lived Player imprint as Nebraska. Nebraska - Vicarious Disco 12 feat two Soul 223 remixes - dL-014 --releasedate Nov. 15th Nebraska - Mixed Up Music For Mixed Up People - dLNEBLP/dLNEBCD -- releasedate Feb. 2008 JT On 11/1/07, Jussi Lehtonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too Funk - Igra seems to be a download only -EP, haven't heard it. I hope that something tangible wil also appear in a short while. Anything else in the similar vein that I should be aware of? :) Jussi Lehtonen Metaprogram yourself.
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
this one didnt go through the first time On 11/1/07, still want to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like how you have put the hand brake on here .. and begun to define the parameters for which an artist should/could create new music. i'm not defining parameters, i am simply pointing out that in the making of recorded music there are different jobs: producer, musician, engineer. in most dance music, the producer is also the musician and the engineer, s/he had the overall idea of what the record should do, plays everything on it, and programs all the technical stuff him/herself. there's only so much time in any day, the number of people who can handle the musician and producer parts the best are not necessarily the people who are the best engineers. you can come up with some cases of truly brilliant musicians or producers who contributed to groundbreaking engineering (king tubby, the beatles, miles davis come immediately to mind) but their numbers are very few and for the most part they were not working alone, they had crazy assistance! the tendency in electronic music in particular is for the less talented producers and musicians to substitute heavy engineering for good songs. sure they make neat noises, but their tunes don't stand the test of time. and the more complex the engineering required to make the tracks, the less time and energy the tunes themselves seem to get (see drum and bass in the 07). Again .. I am trying to open doors and suggest new ways to make music, to extend its possibilities. the possibilities were already endless, which is why i think trying to extend them is a silly idea. Why should Dj's replace bands? they don't have to, but i am not interested in them so much. i like live music that functions deep in the groove, im not into rockin guitar solos and dramatic stage presence or whatever. so so so very few live performers can do that for me (fat freddy's drop is a standout from recent years where the egos were all subjugated to the groove!) What was wrong with classical music? the typical performance! sitting around stodgy theatres in a suit, politely clapping, or maybe even worse when string quartets are hired to play background music at functions where people just dont give a sh*t. plus the attitudes of many classical fans is obnoxious. im definitely very interested in more modern minimal composition and avant garde stuff where they get rid of all that nonsense, but those people dont get much love in the classical music realm anyway! theyre more like techno than 99% of techno artists are without even trying. Thinking that the Dj is the ultimate solution to the performance paradigm is getting pretty narrow. do you think so? i dont. the deejay is limited only by his collection of records. how many musicians can memorize the literally tens of thousands of songs that any given deejay has to choose from? almost none! how many can be masters of any genre or style that a deejay with great knowledge can be? almost none. the deejay has a very unique position and skill set that can harness the best musicians of all time and every genre ever and any song as it could best be performed and use it to shape mood, atmosphere, etc. You seem to be clamping down firmly again on your view of reality being the only right and correct way for things to happen. i mean, people are free to do whatever they please. but the results of people simply trying to do something new have been garbage, by far. it is a useless pursuit that has led to so many terrible records and almost no awesome records that i am surprised that anyone thinks it is a good idea. good music is revolutionary, everything else is just hype/intellectual crap slapped on by critics and other people observing it. There is nothing new under the sun. There is nothing new under the sun. I'm just not buying it. I have suggested several ways to do things differently and because they are not fitting into your description of what IS then they become impossible, irrelevant or simply dismissed. i mean, my definition of music is the loosest possible definition: an artistic arrangement of sounds and rhythms. i didnt say that artists have to put themselves in their music, thats just the way it is! these things dont come from nowhere. i mean, you can go on believing that great music will just come from the netherworld through your new ideas but ill stick with reality. I have not mentioned sensors or computer once .. or any form of automation. then what else is there? if a person is involved, they have input. end of story. you cannot remove that person from the equation. if you do, you have nothing! What if an artist set up the sensor? How do you start to differentiate between where the composition of music starts and finishes? brian eno has been dealing with this idea since the early 70's, check discrete music. this is nothing new! and he is still the man responsible for his music, without his ideas the music
Re: (313) Russ Gabriel's latest releases
No James is busy with family and kids etc It's just Ali. JT, Is this co-produced by James Mason as the Rei Mitsui on Ferox? Sounds exciting anyway. G -- Guilherme Menegon Arantes, PhD São Paulo, Brasil __
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pitchfork_gives_music_6_8 Somebody had to say it. m50 At 13:33 2007.11.02, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: this one didnt go through the first time On 11/1/07, still want to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like how you have put the hand brake on here .. and begun to define the parameters for which an artist should/could create new music. i'm not defining parameters, i am simply pointing out that in the making of recorded music there are different jobs: producer, musician, engineer. in most dance music, the producer is also the musician and the engineer, s/he had the overall idea of what the record should do, plays everything on it, and programs all the technical stuff him/herself. there's only so much time in any day, the number of people who can handle the musician and producer parts the best are not necessarily the people who are the best engineers. you can come up with some cases of truly brilliant musicians or producers who contributed to groundbreaking engineering (king tubby, the beatles, miles davis come immediately to mind) but their numbers are very few and for the most part they were not working alone, they had crazy assistance! the tendency in electronic music in particular is for the less talented producers and musicians to substitute heavy engineering for good songs. sure they make neat noises, but their tunes don't stand the test of time. and the more complex the engineering required to make the tracks, the less time and energy the tunes themselves seem to get (see drum and bass in the 07). Again .. I am trying to open doors and suggest new ways to make music, to extend its possibilities. the possibilities were already endless, which is why i think trying to extend them is a silly idea. Why should Dj's replace bands? they don't have to, but i am not interested in them so much. i like live music that functions deep in the groove, im not into rockin guitar solos and dramatic stage presence or whatever. so so so very few live performers can do that for me (fat freddy's drop is a standout from recent years where the egos were all subjugated to the groove!) What was wrong with classical music? the typical performance! sitting around stodgy theatres in a suit, politely clapping, or maybe even worse when string quartets are hired to play background music at functions where people just dont give a sh*t. plus the attitudes of many classical fans is obnoxious. im definitely very interested in more modern minimal composition and avant garde stuff where they get rid of all that nonsense, but those people dont get much love in the classical music realm anyway! theyre more like techno than 99% of techno artists are without even trying. Thinking that the Dj is the ultimate solution to the performance paradigm is getting pretty narrow. do you think so? i dont. the deejay is limited only by his collection of records. how many musicians can memorize the literally tens of thousands of songs that any given deejay has to choose from? almost none! how many can be masters of any genre or style that a deejay with great knowledge can be? almost none. the deejay has a very unique position and skill set that can harness the best musicians of all time and every genre ever and any song as it could best be performed and use it to shape mood, atmosphere, etc. You seem to be clamping down firmly again on your view of reality being the only right and correct way for things to happen. i mean, people are free to do whatever they please. but the results of people simply trying to do something new have been garbage, by far. it is a useless pursuit that has led to so many terrible records and almost no awesome records that i am surprised that anyone thinks it is a good idea. good music is revolutionary, everything else is just hype/intellectual crap slapped on by critics and other people observing it. There is nothing new under the sun. There is nothing new under the sun. I'm just not buying it. I have suggested several ways to do things differently and because they are not fitting into your description of what IS then they become impossible, irrelevant or simply dismissed. i mean, my definition of music is the loosest possible definition: an artistic arrangement of sounds and rhythms. i didnt say that artists have to put themselves in their music, thats just the way it is! these things dont come from nowhere. i mean, you can go on believing that great music will just come from the netherworld through your new ideas but ill stick with reality. I have not mentioned sensors or computer once .. or any form of automation. then what else is there? if a person is involved, they have input. end of story. you cannot remove that person from the equation. if you do, you have nothing! What if an artist set up the sensor? How do you start to differentiate between where the composition of music starts and finishes? brian eno has been dealing with this idea
RE: (313) have we run out of reality?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:45:54 -0500 Subject: Re: (313) have we run out of reality? Its a complex chain of affairs .. but is the artist the person who records the record or the person who builds the sound system? Or is it the Dj who plays the record or the Engineer who tunes the system and the frequencies that you hear. It's all of them - if they do it right. Problem is, few good sound system designers exist. Raves have been a black hole of good sound system design. Line up a bunch of speakers into a single wall and blast it as loud as you can has been the rave motto for ages. Our societies have ways of isolating these roles and giving one moreimportance over the other .. but if one role can't exist with out the other .. which is really more important. eh? I think those that know speak of all of the legendary DJs/engineer/sound system designers in the same breath. Where would Larry Levan be without Richard Long? Nicky Siano and David Mancuso without Alex Rosner? See, the BIG problem is the entire rave culture was outside of the original DJ nightclub thing (especially the legendary NYC gay nightclubs). I've argued countless times with local raves who just Do Not Get It. They tell me lasers and other bs are just as important as a sound system which is complete bull crap. They don't understand the importance of sound and how it translates into an experience that can send people into outerspace. Raves were disassociated from the discos and as a result you've had to deal with people who don't get it. As far as I'm concerned they are two totally different cultures with different histories with only occasional cross-over. However, one does not translate well into the other. I see more DJs from the disco world being asked to perform at raves than I see rave DJs being asked to perform at the discos that know. MEK AMEN, BROTHER. Shake Shakir _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us
