Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
I think getting lawyers involved would be WEAK. he's got to expect this kind of thing when he's unwilling to release in numbers that satisfy demand. its like holding yum candy just out of reach of kid with a sweet tooth. people have the technology and the willingness to get the music out no matter what KDJ wants, so he might as well re-release and get some money for his tracks while he can. of course, with this in mind, I'm not going to care very much when he starts complaining about being bootlegged again, he's not learning anything from these situations, evidently mr contentious-point-of-view-today, -Joe - Original Message - From: Ken Odeluga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:51 AM Subject: RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' Aquarhythms - Body Jazz Body Fusion (Carl Craig's Straight mix), Yennek - Serena X (Innerzone mix), La Funk Mob - Ravers Suck Our Sound (Carl Craig remix), Brian Transeau - Relativity (Carl Craig's Urban Affair dub), Tori Amos - God (The Rainforest Resort mix), Iccognito - Out Of The Storm (C's Planet E Special mix) On CCR Records ... Legit? I don't know, but I would suspect that this is another boot, just going by the current trend of release skeds and the type of labels chosen (if not the artists' own) on which to release. I've never heard of CCR or Neon (which released the 'Moodyman' boot). Not wanting to reignite the rather acrimonious debate about how much material (quantity and frequency) producers should release, but these bootlegs do implicate a perceived supply-demand mismatch, and the ultimate responsibility for that will tend to lie with the artists. Doesn't justify being ripped off but releasing more frequently/more 'volumes' (in electronic music that word's a bit of a misnomer but you know what I mean) will tend to reduce the risk of bootlegs, that's just a fact. k
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Your kidding right? Your statement doesn't justify someone stealing music and making money off of it. Obviously KDJ doesn't want to press alot of records at a time, and he does re-release records. Try either buying them when they are released, find and buy them used, OR try buying them when they are re-released. Simple as that. ~E he's got to expect this kind of thing when he's unwilling to release in numbers that satisfy demand. its like holding yum candy just out of reach of kid with a sweet tooth. people have the technology and the willingness to get the music out no matter what KDJ wants, so he might as well re-release and get some money for his tracks while he can.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
it doesn't justify it, but you seriously shouldnt be too suprised when it happens. Im just ssaying that despite his motivations for doing limited copy releases, he might be better off getting the money for his tracks unstead of leaving it to the bootleggers. I MAKE music, Erin, of course I dont want people stealing it. sorry if I wasn't clear initially. -Joe - Original Message - From: Erin Bate [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 12:18 AM Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' Your kidding right? Your statement doesn't justify someone stealing music and making money off of it. Obviously KDJ doesn't want to press alot of records at a time, and he does re-release records. Try either buying them when they are released, find and buy them used, OR try buying them when they are re-released. Simple as that. ~E he's got to expect this kind of thing when he's unwilling to release in numbers that satisfy demand. its like holding yum candy just out of reach of kid with a sweet tooth. people have the technology and the willingness to get the music out no matter what KDJ wants, so he might as well re-release and get some money for his tracks while he can.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
of course, with this in mind, I'm not going to care very much when he starts complaining about being bootlegged again, he's not learning anything from these situations, evidently Just a little side note... KDJ and other artists are not obligated to distribute ANY of there music if they so choose. You see more and more artists sharing unreleased music amongst each other and they are never released, and usually these records end up being the sickest tracks we hear. it doesn't justify it, but you seriously shouldnt be too suprised when it happens. Im just ssaying that despite his motivations for doing limited copy releases, he might be better off getting the money for his tracks unstead of leaving it to the bootleggers. Actually I am, because people should have more respect for the artists and their music, and less for the money involved. I MAKE music, Erin, of course I dont want people stealing it. By the way, Joe I think that is great you make music. If you make a track and can only press up 1000 copies or so, I sure hope you don't come crying about someone in UK bootleggin' you.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
well he can certainly release 5 copies of a track if he wants... he wouldnt be the first musician to lose money to idealism. I hope he doesn't regret it down the road. thanks for your perspective Erin, -Joe - Original Message - From: Erin Bate [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 12:45 AM Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' of course, with this in mind, I'm not going to care very much when he starts complaining about being bootlegged again, he's not learning anything from these situations, evidently Just a little side note... KDJ and other artists are not obligated to distribute ANY of there music if they so choose. You see more and more artists sharing unreleased music amongst each other and they are never released, and usually these records end up being the sickest tracks we hear. it doesn't justify it, but you seriously shouldnt be too suprised when it happens. Im just ssaying that despite his motivations for doing limited copy releases, he might be better off getting the money for his tracks unstead of leaving it to the bootleggers. Actually I am, because people should have more respect for the artists and their music, and less for the money involved. I MAKE music, Erin, of course I dont want people stealing it. By the way, Joe I think that is great you make music. If you make a track and can only press up 1000 copies or so, I sure hope you don't come crying about someone in UK bootleggin' you.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
it doesn't justify it, but you seriously shouldnt be too suprised when it happens. Im just ssaying that despite his motivations for doing limited copy releases, he might be better off getting the money for his tracks unstead of leaving it to the bootleggers. this whole blame-the-artist thing makes me sick. blame the bootlegger. dont buy this crap, dont make excuses for the bootleggers, maybe they'll stop bootlegging releases that havent even been out of print for 5 years! copyrights exist for a reason, of course people should be surprised when some punk comes along and steals their chit! especially when the market is so small to begin with, it is a really brazen act of theft! I MAKE music, Erin, of course I dont want people stealing it. you've previously said that you think all music should be free and artists should not be paid iirc? _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
No blame was laid on anyone; at no point did he say that it's KDJ's fault for this bootleg's existance, and that it's ok to sell illegal copies of music. What he said was that supply and demand exists. When demand exceeds supply, things happen. He was just saying you'd think KDJ would stop being surprised at these bootlegs. He further asserted that perhaps KDJ should be cashing on the demand for his music rather than bootleggers. So far, it's pretty sound thinking, IMO! J. T. writes: this whole blame-the-artist thing makes me sick. blame the bootlegger.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
I think that music is a very pure form of human emotional expression and for me, that product (in this case, the music I make) is cheapened when I attach a price tag to it in any way. performance is a whole different story. when i first was confronted with this choice (release or not), I was very excited and then realized I was excited because of the ego-feed of having a record out. I wouldnt have made much and the little fame means nothign to me. a life as a musician would not fulfill my long term aspirations, so I decided taht I would be a part time audio mangler, and give it away for free as long as anyone wanted to listen. the only reason I continue to consider release of any of my tracks is because it helps get more live shows, which is what I really enjoy. I dont think bootlegging is ok, because thats attacking some peoples livelihood (the affected musicians) but I also think it should indicate to the artist that there is a market gap to be filled. you can either fill it with undoubtadly higher quality re-releases and make money, or you can lose the money, send expensive lawyers after the bootleggers, and end up broke but with a whole load of artistic integrity. no one has to agree with this, as I know its not a very common point of view, but since you asked ... :))) -Joe - Original Message - From: J. T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 12:50 AM Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' it doesn't justify it, but you seriously shouldnt be too suprised when it happens. Im just ssaying that despite his motivations for doing limited copy releases, he might be better off getting the money for his tracks unstead of leaving it to the bootleggers. this whole blame-the-artist thing makes me sick. blame the bootlegger. dont buy this crap, dont make excuses for the bootleggers, maybe they'll stop bootlegging releases that havent even been out of print for 5 years! copyrights exist for a reason, of course people should be surprised when some punk comes along and steals their chit! especially when the market is so small to begin with, it is a really brazen act of theft! I MAKE music, Erin, of course I dont want people stealing it. you've previously said that you think all music should be free and artists should not be paid iirc? _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Hey Erin, All I can say is, read my complete comment before you start making unfounded accusations. I said myself that the dearth of supply does not justify anyone bootlegging. I'd have to be pretty stupid to imply that bootleggers are justified and I'm certainbly not that stupid or unreasonable. I don't appreciate your ill thought-out petulance when I have posted something which I feel was sensible, non-accusatory and balanced. As I say, read my post. I'm pretty sure it would not have offended any artists - even if they had not agreed with it. Yet I still have to put up with self-righteous wolly-headedness from people like yourself. On a good day I'd dismiss you with the lack of attention which I think you merit, but today you can have some sharp words. Now split. Ken Odeluga Your kidding right? Your statement doesn't justify someone stealing music and making money off of it. Obviously KDJ doesn't want to press alot of records at a time, and he does re-release records. Try either buying them when they are released, find and buy them used, OR try buying them when they are re-released. Simple as that. ~E he's got to expect this kind of thing when he's unwilling to release in numbers that satisfy demand. its like holding yum candy just out of reach of kid with a sweet tooth. people have the technology and the willingness to get the music out no matter what KDJ wants, so he might as well re-release and get some money for his tracks while he can.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Haven't we discussed the whole issue of bootlegging just a couple of months ago with the other KDJ bootleg? Can't we stop this, it is like a digital deja-vu, same arguments again, people who care about an artist right fot intulectual and artistic property and people who don't care about it. Same discussion, same people... read the archives i would say :) KJ On Wednesday, June 09, 2004, at 07:24AM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dont think bootlegging is ok, because thats attacking some peoples livelihood (the affected musicians) but I also think it should indicate to the artist that there is a market gap to be filled. you can either fill it with undoubtadly higher quality re-releases and make money, or you can lose the money, send expensive lawyers after the bootleggers, and end up broke but with a whole load of artistic integrity. no one has to agree with this, as I know its not a very common point of view, but since you asked ... :)))
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
he's got to expect this kind of thing when he's unwilling to release in numbers that satisfy demand. its like holding yum candy just out of reach of kid with a sweet tooth. Ah sorry, no it isn't. First of all they're not little kids that have no idea of right or wrong. PERIOD. The people doing the bootlegging know it's illegal - that's why they never put their names on their work. I have no doubt that they love the music but I think their actions tell us they have no respect for the artist. If they did then maybe they could take the money it would have cost to press up the bootleg copies and approach KDJ about helping him out with doing more pressings. If KDJ balks at their idea or just turns them down - they owe him the RESPECT to not touch his work. Second - It sounds a bit like some people are jealous of KDJ's talent and because they can't make the music themselves - they rip him off! MEK
RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
-- Original Message -- From: Ken Odeluga [EMAIL PROTECTED] I said myself that the dearth of supply does not justify anyone bootlegging. I'd have to be pretty stupid to imply that bootleggers are justified who cares if bootlegging is justified or not? its justification or lack thereof isnt going to stop them from existing. the only thing you can do is to examine what makes a bootlegger decide to bootleg a product: limited supply and excessive demand. bootleggers dont bootleg things that are always in print. UR doesnt have this problem (aside from those ultimate bootleggers sony) because their music is always in print. so by simple examination its easy to see that the only ways to avoid bootlegging are to put out a product that no one wants to buy or to keep popular items in print. bootlegging has always and will always exist, just like drug use and whatever other negative aspects of music you can think of. so instead of trying to treat the symptom, nip the problem in the butt and you wont ever have to worry about it. tom andythepooh.com
RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
-- Original Message -- From: Ken Odeluga [EMAIL PROTECTED] I said myself that the dearth of supply does not justify anyone bootlegging. I'd have to be pretty stupid to imply that bootleggers are justified who cares if bootlegging is justified or not? its justification or lack thereof isnt going to stop them from existing. the only thing you can do is to examine what makes a bootlegger decide to bootleg a product: limited supply and excessive demand. bootleggers dont bootleg things that are always in print. UR doesnt have this problem (aside from those ultimate bootleggers sony) because their music is always in print. so by simple examination its easy to see that the only ways to avoid bootlegging are to put out a product that no one wants to buy or to keep popular items in print. bootlegging has always and will always exist, just like drug use and whatever other negative aspects of music you can think of. so instead of trying to treat the symptom, nip the problem in the butt and you wont ever have to worry about it. tom Thanks Tom. Have to say, I made this exact same point in my second post on this subject. Cheers, Ken
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Or as Dylan Thomas once said: Somebody's boring me ... I think it's me.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Im sorry, reading the archives does not sort out my opinions on the matter. I think you're being somewhat unreasonable expecting the list to never touch on the same subject twice :) I'll shut up now - Original Message - From: Klaas-Jan Jongsma [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 6:22 AM Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' Haven't we discussed the whole issue of bootlegging just a couple of months ago with the other KDJ bootleg? Can't we stop this, it is like a digital deja-vu, same arguments again, people who care about an artist right fot intulectual and artistic property and people who don't care about it. Same discussion, same people... read the archives i would say :) KJ On Wednesday, June 09, 2004, at 07:24AM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dont think bootlegging is ok, because thats attacking some peoples livelihood (the affected musicians) but I also think it should indicate to the artist that there is a market gap to be filled. you can either fill it with undoubtadly higher quality re-releases and make money, or you can lose the money, send expensive lawyers after the bootleggers, and end up broke but with a whole load of artistic integrity. no one has to agree with this, as I know its not a very common point of view, but since you asked ... :)))
RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Looks like a serious case for KDJ's lawyers because it really did look convincing to me right down to the congratulatory blurb on the back, talking about Moodyman's (sic) next solo effort in June 2004. k -Original Message- From: Kelly, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:11 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' definately a bootleg - the cheeky f#ckers have used a picture off my website for the sleeve.. it's got a barcode on the back though.. so it's a strange one.. The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales). The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
I noticed an album of Carl Craig remixes (http://www.juno.co.uk/IP/IF148255-01.htm) that I wondered whether were bootlegged. Tracklisting: Aquarhythms - Body Jazz Body Fusion (Carl Craig's Straight mix), Yennek - Serena X (Innerzone mix), La Funk Mob - Ravers Suck Our Sound (Carl Craig remix), Brian Transeau - Reltivity (Carl Craig's Urban Affair dub), Tori Amos - God (The Rainforest Resort mix), Iccognito - Out Of The Storm (C's Planet E Special mix) On CCR Records ... Legit? Cheers Chris On 8/6/04 3:45 PM, Ken Odeluga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like a serious case for KDJ's lawyers because it really did look convincing to me right down to the congratulatory blurb on the back, talking about Moodyman's (sic) next solo effort in June 2004. k -Original Message- From: Kelly, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:11 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken' definately a bootleg - the cheeky f#ckers have used a picture off my website for the sleeve.. it's got a barcode on the back though.. so it's a strange one..
RE: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Aquarhythms - Body Jazz Body Fusion (Carl Craig's Straight mix), Yennek - Serena X (Innerzone mix), La Funk Mob - Ravers Suck Our Sound (Carl Craig remix), Brian Transeau - Relativity (Carl Craig's Urban Affair dub), Tori Amos - God (The Rainforest Resort mix), Iccognito - Out Of The Storm (C's Planet E Special mix) On CCR Records ... Legit? I don't know, but I would suspect that this is another boot, just going by the current trend of release skeds and the type of labels chosen (if not the artists' own) on which to release. I've never heard of CCR or Neon (which released the 'Moodyman' boot). Not wanting to reignite the rather acrimonious debate about how much material (quantity and frequency) producers should release, but these bootlegs do implicate a perceived supply-demand mismatch, and the ultimate responsibility for that will tend to lie with the artists. Doesn't justify being ripped off but releasing more frequently/more 'volumes' (in electronic music that word's a bit of a misnomer but you know what I mean) will tend to reduce the risk of bootlegs, that's just a fact. k
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
definately a bootleg - the cheeky f#ckers have used a picture off my website for the sleeve.. it's got a barcode on the back though.. so it's a strange one.. The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales). The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
On Jun 7, 2004, at 10:10 AM, Kelly, Stephen wrote: definately a bootleg - the cheeky f#ckers have used a picture off my website for the sleeve.. it's got a barcode on the back though.. so it's a strange one.. yes, in addition to the fact that a few of the track titles are wrong for the tracks they're supposed to be. warning: avoid, avoid... peace -- Matt MacQueen http://SonicSunset.com
Re: (313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
when i talked to huckaby in detroit about it, he said he never
heard of it and thought it was a bootleg. the pressings were a
little noisy, but not bad. i passed on it.
tom
-- Original Message --
From: Ken Odeluga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 23:45:31 +0100
Anyone know anything about the compilation above? Label: Neon.
Dated
2004.
It looks a bit odd. For instance, on the sleeve and
discs 'Moodymann'
is misspelt with one 'n' - copyright/licensing dodge maybe?
The shop I saw it in didn't seem to think it was a bootleg - I
think
they were being straight-up.
Tracklist:
Don't You Want My Love
Stairway 2 Heaven (skit),
Eye 2 Eye (Amp Fiddler) Moodyman Remix
Amerika
Mahogany Brown
Sunday Morning ('Geology' version)
Superficial (Amp Fiddler) Moodyman Remix
Music People
A Million Ways To Get Paid
Me My Peoples Eyes
Oceans
Gods Earths
As you can see, comprises of mostly already-released stuff of
varying
availability. Never heard of the last track (sleeve
says unreleased.)
The shorter ones are often some of the 'monologues' which
accompany
some MM trax.
Have to say it looked like a very good, heavy pressing and two
reasonably wide tracks per side.
k
andythepooh.com
(313) 'Moodyman': 'The Silence Is Broken'
Anyone know anything about the compilation above? Label: Neon. Dated
2004.
It looks a bit odd. For instance, on the sleeve and discs 'Moodymann'
is misspelt with one 'n' - copyright/licensing dodge maybe?
The shop I saw it in didn't seem to think it was a bootleg - I think
they were being straight-up.
Tracklist:
Don't You Want My Love
Stairway 2 Heaven (skit),
Eye 2 Eye (Amp Fiddler) Moodyman Remix
Amerika
Mahogany Brown
Sunday Morning ('Geology' version)
Superficial (Amp Fiddler) Moodyman Remix
Music People
A Million Ways To Get Paid
Me My Peoples Eyes
Oceans
Gods Earths
As you can see, comprises of mostly already-released stuff of varying
availability. Never heard of the last track (sleeve says unreleased.)
The shorter ones are often some of the 'monologues' which accompany
some MM trax.
Have to say it looked like a very good, heavy pressing and two
reasonably wide tracks per side.
k
