RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
Hi Fab This answer is assuming that the label is in a country that offers copyright protection... The example you give isn't just plagiarism, it's (potentially) a breach of copyright. What may constitute a breach of copyright includes reproduction, performing/ playing, communicating it, or adapting a substantial part of the work. What constitutes a substantial part depends on a case by case basis but the important factor is that it is recogisable and distinctive - I'd imagine a loop would be quite distinctive. If I were your friend I would write a letter to that label again, outlining those facts and ask for some remuneration for the use of that loop. In terms of 'code of conduct' etc relating to making of music using samples/ previously recorded material, anyone who is making this music who wants to release it commercially should really go out and try and get those licences first hand. The Beastie Boys were talking about that in an issue of Wired earlier this year. I can't remember what specific cases there are out there, but I seem to recall that even though you can argue that the adaption is a whole new original work, courts around the world are usually on the side of the original copyright owner. It's not very practical, but the only way to resolve these things is through the courts, and no one wants to have to go through that. On a practical note, and I know this sounds really anal retentive, I'd make sure that any letters I send out to labels in future clearly stated that permission needed to be sought before use; or alternatively state very clearly that it's for listening and review only and for no other reason. For non-commercial releases, I suggest a Creative Commons licence. Cheers Melody -Original Message- From: fab. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 May 2005 19:57 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep. ## Notice: The information contained in this electronic mail is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be confidential and/or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system and kindly notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you must not reproduce any part of this electronic mail or disclose its contents to any other party. ##
Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
apparently this is a problem in hip hop. i recently read/listened (?) to an article about the same problem, can't remember where. maybe it was on the bbc site or fader mag or wax poetics. excuse my rudimentary knowledge. anyway, there are beat hunters - people who go through old david alexrod records or whatever and find breaks/loops. they then try to sell the beats or pitch themselves by showing their cd-r of beats to big name artists and producers only to be ripped off. james www.jbucknell.com fab. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To 313@hyperreal.org 24/05/05 07:57 PM cc Subject (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep. ForwardSourceID:NT0001E84A
Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
and use certified mail, if available. that way there is no we never got that letter bs. if all else fails fab, I'll talk to them :ppp - Original Message - From: Melody Ng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fab. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? Hi Fab This answer is assuming that the label is in a country that offers copyright protection... The example you give isn't just plagiarism, it's (potentially) a breach of copyright. What may constitute a breach of copyright includes reproduction, performing/ playing, communicating it, or adapting a substantial part of the work. What constitutes a substantial part depends on a case by case basis but the important factor is that it is recogisable and distinctive - I'd imagine a loop would be quite distinctive. If I were your friend I would write a letter to that label again, outlining those facts and ask for some remuneration for the use of that loop. In terms of 'code of conduct' etc relating to making of music using samples/ previously recorded material, anyone who is making this music who wants to release it commercially should really go out and try and get those licences first hand. The Beastie Boys were talking about that in an issue of Wired earlier this year. I can't remember what specific cases there are out there, but I seem to recall that even though you can argue that the adaption is a whole new original work, courts around the world are usually on the side of the original copyright owner. It's not very practical, but the only way to resolve these things is through the courts, and no one wants to have to go through that. On a practical note, and I know this sounds really anal retentive, I'd make sure that any letters I send out to labels in future clearly stated that permission needed to be sought before use; or alternatively state very clearly that it's for listening and review only and for no other reason. For non-commercial releases, I suggest a Creative Commons licence. Cheers Melody -Original Message- From: fab. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 May 2005 19:57 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep. ## Notice: The information contained in this electronic mail is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be confidential and/or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system and kindly notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you must not reproduce any part of this electronic mail or disclose its contents to any other party. ##
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
Take heed folks, Melody charges clients a lot of wonga for advice like that! :-) K Ken Odeluga Copy Editor, Markets - Market Talk Dow Jones Newswires 10 Fleet Place Limeburner Lane LONDON EC4M 7QN 020 7842 9297 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Melody Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 May 2005 00:16 To: fab.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? Hi Fab This answer is assuming that the label is in a country that offers copyright protection... The example you give isn't just plagiarism, it's (potentially) a breach of copyright. What may constitute a breach of copyright includes reproduction, performing/ playing, communicating it, or adapting a substantial part of the work. What constitutes a substantial part depends on a case by case basis but the important factor is that it is recogisable and distinctive - I'd imagine a loop would be quite distinctive. If I were your friend I would write a letter to that label again, outlining those facts and ask for some remuneration for the use of that loop. In terms of 'code of conduct' etc relating to making of music using samples/ previously recorded material, anyone who is making this music who wants to release it commercially should really go out and try and get those licences first hand. The Beastie Boys were talking about that in an issue of Wired earlier this year. I can't remember what specific cases there are out there, but I seem to recall that even though you can argue that the adaption is a whole new original work, courts around the world are usually on the side of the original copyright owner. It's not very practical, but the only way to resolve these things is through the courts, and no one wants to have to go through that. On a practical note, and I know this sounds really anal retentive, I'd make sure that any letters I send out to labels in future clearly stated that permission needed to be sought before use; or alternatively state very clearly that it's for listening and review only and for no other reason. For non-commercial releases, I suggest a Creative Commons licence. Cheers Melody -Original Message- From: fab. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 May 2005 19:57 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep. ## Notice: The information contained in this electronic mail is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be confidential and/or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system and kindly notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you must not reproduce any part of this electronic mail or disclose its contents to any other party. ##
(313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep.
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
Yeah, it's a common story Fab. I also have a friend who produces electronic music, who, a few years ago sent some material to a *very* well-known and highly-respected British electronic music act. You guessed it, no response to his little packet but perhaps a year later, they released something which did sound suspiciously similar to the track he'd sent them. My view is that of course its plagiarism, but of course, if one isn't careful, it can be extremely difficult to prove. More importantly the morals of the story are: 1. don't send unsolicited material to people whom you don't know and trust, and 2. follow the simple copyright (UK law) measure of sending a reference of your work to some external body - yes the old trick of sending your cd in the post to yourself is good enough, so long as the post gets stamped and you don't open it, except in the event of a dispute. K Ken Odeluga Copy Editor, Markets - Market Talk Dow Jones Newswires 10 Fleet Place Limeburner Lane LONDON EC4M 7QN 020 7842 9297 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: fab. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 May 2005 10:57 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? hi list, a friend of mine recently send a demo cd-r to a well-known, and dare i say, respected label looking to hopefully work with them. A few months later he listens to a new release by them and finds that the main loop that one of the tracks is built around has been taken from his cd-r. i've heard it and it objectively is the case my friend's only problem with all this is that they didnt wirte to him telling him that they liked the track and wanted to use a sample of it. it's not a quesiton of being ripped-off but rather having some sort of acknowledgement and appreciation being manifested. i think this is an example fo what is or isnt to be considered plagiarism in electronic music. given that it is music made by using samples and also previously recorded material, is there a line that is not meant or even a sort of code of conduct to follow so that someone doesnt feel ripped-off? cheers, fab. CITYMORB MUSIC www.citymorb.net | [EMAIL PROTECTED] next release: CTM001 Receptor - Moving Head ep.
Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
On Tue, 24 May 2005, fab. wrote: hi list, Hi. I'd try to settle (what ever that is in this case) with the label in question first and if there is no progress what-so-ever, I'd let everybody in the music industry (including this list) to know about this incident :-) No, I'm not joking. -- Jari Tolkkinen | dj ken-guru | http://www.ken-guru.net --
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
I'd go round their gaff with a hammer. ;-) -Original Message- From: Jari Tolkkinen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 May 2005 10:55 To: fab. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? On Tue, 24 May 2005, fab. wrote: hi list, Hi. I'd try to settle (what ever that is in this case) with the label in question first and if there is no progress what-so-ever, I'd let everybody in the music industry (including this list) to know about this incident :-) No, I'm not joking. -- Jari Tolkkinen | dj ken-guru | http://www.ken-guru.net -- # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. #
Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
I also have a friend who produces electronic music, who, a few years ago sent some material to a *very* well-known and highly-respected British electronic music act. You guessed it, no response to his little packet but perhaps a year later, they released something which did sound suspiciously similar to the track he'd sent them. what use is a thread about plagiarism if we don't name names? :) dish it! robin...
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
Heh heh, I'd love to Robin! But I don't think it's not for me to do that ... Ken Odeluga Copy Editor, Markets - Market Talk Dow Jones Newswires 10 Fleet Place Limeburner Lane LONDON EC4M 7QN 020 7842 9297 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 May 2005 12:15 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: fab.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? I also have a friend who produces electronic music, who, a few years ago sent some material to a *very* well-known and highly-respected British electronic music act. You guessed it, no response to his little packet but perhaps a year later, they released something which did sound suspiciously similar to the track he'd sent them. what use is a thread about plagiarism if we don't name names? :) dish it! robin...
Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
like Jari said, first take it with themand if nothing happens, trust me i will be dishing names! fab. - Original Message - From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: fab. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism? I also have a friend who produces electronic music, who, a few years ago sent some material to a *very* well-known and highly-respected British electronic music act. You guessed it, no response to his little packet but perhaps a year later, they released something which did sound suspiciously similar to the track he'd sent them. what use is a thread about plagiarism if we don't name names? :) dish it! robin...
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
I seriously can't believe this stuff still goes on. But, well, thats life I suppose. It's really hard to prove somone did it deliberately, peoples influences can be so similar, and in 'our' type of music, stuff can end it sounding similar without it being deliberately done. Bah, it's rubbish anyway. I mean, when I sent Kevin Saunderson a copy of a track I made called Big Fun Bags, imagine my surprise when it became a chart hit not 10 months later.* but I'm not bitter. Alex *there might be a slight porkie pie in this somewhere. _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring.
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
On Tue, 24 May 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean, when I sent Kevin Saunderson a copy of a track I made called Big Fun Bags, imagine my surprise when it became a chart hit not 10 months later.* You owe me one keyboard thank you very much. -- Jari Tolkkinen | dj ken-guru | http://www.ken-guru.net --
RE: (313) is there such a thing as plagiarism?
Hi Alex, Im guessing that the porkie is one of these 2 lines, am I right: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seriously can't believe this stuff still goes on. but I'm not bitter. Cheers BT
