RE: (313) montreux vs movement
memories and respect must endure hardships and defeat to define something classic and outlast time. juan i think youre right - From: "john arnold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) montreux vs movement Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:16:17 -0400 How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered something for intellectuals? 20 years or so?? Does having a rave in heart-plaza make people who are not into underground electronic music hate us fans even more? Coming from a jazz and an electronic background I can give you some insight into this. Fisrt off, most people don't give a f+++ about jazz just as much as they don't give a f+++ about techno;-0 I can also remember being at a meeting for the Detroit Jazz Fest. (the second year of DEMF) and the big concern was budget. Ford had pulled a lot of sponsorship money from Montreux Detroit and put it into DEMF!!! FOR REAL!!! The year after Montreux became the Ford International Jazz Fest. Shocking I am pretty sure the only thing a sponsor cares about is selling you there product and respect of music has nothing to do with that. Montreux Switz has also been around for a long, long time. They have really earned there rights, as will DEMFgive it some time.
RE: (313) montreux vs movement
How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered something for intellectuals? 20 years or so?? Does having a rave in heart-plaza make people who are not into underground electronic music hate us fans even more? Coming from a jazz and an electronic background I can give you some insight into this. Fisrt off, most people don't give a f+++ about jazz just as much as they don't give a f+++ about techno;-0 I can also remember being at a meeting for the Detroit Jazz Fest. (the second year of DEMF) and the big concern was budget. Ford had pulled a lot of sponsorship money from Montreux Detroit and put it into DEMF!!! FOR REAL!!! The year after Montreux became the Ford International Jazz Fest. Shocking I am pretty sure the only thing a sponsor cares about is selling you there product and respect of music has nothing to do with that. Montreux Switz has also been around for a long, long time. They have really earned there rights, as will DEMFgive it some time.
Re: (313) montreux vs movement
How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? There is a local jazz festival where I live .. that has been running for 28 years. Try and imagine DEMF in 2028 .. it's worth thinking about ! cause thats what it takes to have integrity .. commitment. Last year we got Recloose to play at our Jazz Festival ! This year we are hoping to continue the subtle influence of Techno artists. I have always felt there is a strong relationship between Jazz and Techno ' --- www.obscure.co.nz & www.psurkit.net -- m. +64 275 606012
Re: (313) montreux vs movement
no bones to pick except for this >If you look at the history of Jazz, it is entering its second & third generation >of innovators and players. Entering its second and third generation? Today's jazz is decades past it's second and third generation. If you're talking about Louis Armstrong you're close to the second and third generation of innovators. MEK "as if .. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 04/28/2006 03:27:58 PM: > > > David Smith wrote: > > How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic > > festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will > > techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own > > section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered > > something for intellectuals? > > I think this is an interesting subject. > > Techno is doing better than most dance music genres at driving itself > into more stable ground than just raves & clubs. > > Everytime I suggest to people that Techno has or needs a life outside of > its birthplace on the dance floor, I get strong resistance .. which is a > good sign I suppose. > > Not that I think it should abandon the dancefloor .. like Jazz has never > left the smoky club .. but it has traversed into much broader environments > creating a longevity for the music form. > > NZ has two schools of Jazz. I would love to think that one day we would > have a school of Techno ?! > > I think currently that it is a generational issue .. and in that > respect we are > fortunate that we have a direct connection to history .. but we are > still living > in the origins. > > However nearly all the originators of Techno have in some form or other > carried their practice into different areas, which bodes well for the future. > > If you look at the history of Jazz, it is entering its second & > third generation > of innovators and players. This progression and subsequent pickup by a > new generations is what makes the music vital. > > It's really a question of weather young people are going to take Techno Music > as a form and continue it .. in what ever dimension. > > I think we are on the cusp as the moment. As the older members of the > Techno community try to quantify and establish their understanding of the > form .. and the younger members tell to them to shut up and dance. > > This means we have life at both ends of the spectrum. > > I find some resistance to the intellectualisms of Techno, but to me its the > ideas that are expressed through the music that binds the form. If we deny > the fact that some of us think about the music, then we might as well just > stick to raving till dawn as the only way to preserve the culture. > > While raving has primal qualities that are timeless. I think the practice of > dancing all night in ecstasy's are fairly well established in human culture, > and does not need a lot of energy to maintain. Just bang the rocks together! > > However using music as a form to explore and express ideas through specific > modes of thinking is a practice of higher culture that needs a little more > involvement to maintain. > > Techno ' is based on technology .. and this is the start point for > the discourse > that will enable Techno as a music form long into the future. > > I think Techno against all other forms of "dance music" explores the human > relationship with machines. The tension between design vs application. > > Do the machines control us ' or do we control the machines. etc etc. > > It is difficult to find this discussion in a more fluent form than > Techno .. and > the bonus is you can dance all night like a lunatic while having the > discussion. > > If you haven't already . . check this movie about the 303 > > http://ia300107.us.archive.org/1/items/NateHarrisonBasslineBaseline/BB_web.mov > >.. > > But yea ' how long .. ? Another 15 years .. which is the cycle of > another Generation. > > .simon > > --- > www.obscure.co.nz > & www.psurkit.net > -- > > m. +64 275 606012
Re: (313) montreux vs movement
The biggest obstacle to DEMF becoming as established and respected as Montreux has nothing to do with the music. The primary obstacle from where I sit is the fact that there hasn't been any continuity of management, funding and sponsorship. It's passed from Carol Marvin to Derrick May to Kevin Saunderson to Paxahau, with each transition fraught with drama. What DEMF needs is to get to the point where there's an office open year round, with a Festival Director who cleans up nice, who can make the rounds of the potential corporate sponsors and sell it. It needs an artistic director -- or a series of 'curators' like All Tomorrow's Party, who contacts artists about performing, starting on June 1st. People show up every year. Performers show up every year. Last year broke the cherry so that there's an admission fee to cover part of the expenses. Now all that's needed is enough continuity of management to ensure that every year isn't a cliffhanger. Oh, and what would _really_ help? A City of Detroit that wasn't a complete clusterf*ck. In any other city in the United States -- most of whom would love to have a festival like DEMF, the city itself would be helping financially. I love Detroit -- I love visiting Detroit, but compared to most American cities Detroit is a failed regime. It's Mogadishu with Michigan Left Turns. On 4/28/06, David Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered something for intellectuals? 20 years or so?? Does having a rave in heart-plaza make people who are not into underground electronic music hate us fans even more?
Re: (313) montreux vs movement
David Smith wrote: How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered something for intellectuals? I think this is an interesting subject. Techno is doing better than most dance music genres at driving itself into more stable ground than just raves & clubs. Everytime I suggest to people that Techno has or needs a life outside of its birthplace on the dance floor, I get strong resistance .. which is a good sign I suppose. Not that I think it should abandon the dancefloor .. like Jazz has never left the smoky club .. but it has traversed into much broader environments creating a longevity for the music form. NZ has two schools of Jazz. I would love to think that one day we would have a school of Techno ?! I think currently that it is a generational issue .. and in that respect we are fortunate that we have a direct connection to history .. but we are still living in the origins. However nearly all the originators of Techno have in some form or other carried their practice into different areas, which bodes well for the future. If you look at the history of Jazz, it is entering its second & third generation of innovators and players. This progression and subsequent pickup by a new generations is what makes the music vital. It's really a question of weather young people are going to take Techno Music as a form and continue it .. in what ever dimension. I think we are on the cusp as the moment. As the older members of the Techno community try to quantify and establish their understanding of the form .. and the younger members tell to them to shut up and dance. This means we have life at both ends of the spectrum. I find some resistance to the intellectualisms of Techno, but to me its the ideas that are expressed through the music that binds the form. If we deny the fact that some of us think about the music, then we might as well just stick to raving till dawn as the only way to preserve the culture. While raving has primal qualities that are timeless. I think the practice of dancing all night in ecstasy's are fairly well established in human culture, and does not need a lot of energy to maintain. Just bang the rocks together! However using music as a form to explore and express ideas through specific modes of thinking is a practice of higher culture that needs a little more involvement to maintain. Techno ' is based on technology .. and this is the start point for the discourse that will enable Techno as a music form long into the future. I think Techno against all other forms of "dance music" explores the human relationship with machines. The tension between design vs application. Do the machines control us ' or do we control the machines. etc etc. It is difficult to find this discussion in a more fluent form than Techno .. and the bonus is you can dance all night like a lunatic while having the discussion. If you haven't already . . check this movie about the 303 http://ia300107.us.archive.org/1/items/NateHarrisonBasslineBaseline/BB_web.mov .. But yea ' how long .. ? Another 15 years .. which is the cycle of another Generation. .simon --- www.obscure.co.nz & www.psurkit.net -- m. +64 275 606012
(313) montreux vs movement
How long will it take movement/demf (memorial day weekend electronic festival) to have the integrity of the labor day jazz festival? Will techno have to gain the respect that jazz has--like if it gets its own section in public libraries as jazz does before techno is considered something for intellectuals? 20 years or so?? Does having a rave in heart-plaza make people who are not into underground electronic music hate us fans even more? --david
