Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
In response to KDJ quotes from Charles Prince... OK, It takes a bit to get me to post, but here goes... I'm so sick of this Black/White thing... Race is race, and music is music... The two are in some ways intertwined but a piece of music is it's own entity, sentient and soveriegn... Yes the founding fathers of techno were black, and deserve a great deal of respect for their accomplishment... I love KDJ's music... But I can't help but be bothered that this stereotype, and reverse racism is being carried on To say that to understand soul music you have to be black, because that's who it was made by and intended for, is like to say that to understand Christianity you have to be Jewish, because that's who it was made by and initially intended for (Just an anology)... The whole thing sucks Ideas are Ideas... Techno is an Idea... or if you look at it Jeff Mill's way, it's beyond an Idea... Isn't techno constantly refered to as 'future music'??? What about a future that is void of a separation between races??? It seems that actually many people are still living in the past... I'm of white skin color & I love techno and house I FEEL techno, and house in my soul... All of it... From the hard to the deep (actually more on the deep side)... Who's to say who can and can't feel certain music just because of race, color, or creed??? I may not have lived Curtis Mayfield's life, and neither did anyone else on this planet, but I can ***FEEL*** his music... I can feel what he's talking about, what he's expressing through his music, and his voice... The same with Marvin Gaye or Chic, it's the beauty of the human ability to empathize... I would never tell Alan Oldham that because he's not white he can't appreciate My Bloody Valentine or Shoegazer music (which he loves and respects), or tell Jeff Mills he couldn't do Final Cut because industrial was a white thing... This is because I refuse to lump sentient human entities into catagories!!! Music has no color... It's like a white guy getting pissed that Carl Craig remixed 'Moskow Diskow' or 'Problemes De Amore' because they were "white musics", or to say that giorgio moroder had no soul. Pretty Rediculous Right??? What was techno?? Who and who stuck in an elevator with a drum machine??? I think you see where I'm going It seems sometimes that for a group of people who spend alot of time trying to hide their identities or remain 'underground' once it comes to race it seems everyone's talking, and it's not about all their influences The truth is when it comes to the ***ART*** of making music from the soul, every soul speaks an individual language and who is anyone to interpret that message for anyone Or to tell anyone what they can or can't feel??? That's just irrational judgementalism. Let's just get back to talking about the music we love and not who can and can't love and feel it. My 2 cents... - sb One Ear to the Ground Communications http://www.totheground.com (Coming Soon!!) - Original Message - From: "Jongsma, K.J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:35 AM Subject: RE: [313] Good artist steals? > > > > one of my fav music quotes is > > > > "Sad in the 20th century, in the 1990s, we still have to go > > thru the same bullshit > > route that other artists had to go to get acceptance. If it > > wasnt for the independents, > > if it wasnt for the small little cities, and the few little > > ghetto guys trying to make music, > > it would of never happened. Some of these guys will never > > make a dime. Some of > > these guys will be poor and die alone. But in the process > > theve been the true rengrades. > > And the true rebel always walks alone anyway." > > > > which i !think! is Derrick May sampled (from a tv doc) on E-Z > > Rollers - "Retro" on Moving Shadow. Though > > Ive never had this confirmed, could anyone shed any light on this. > > That's Derrick May sampled from the last episode of 'Dancing in the Street' > from the BBC. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
Forget it Scott... Half the list has tried explaining your point before... Do they listen? Noo... It's like, after thousands of years of civilisation there are still wars and famine and disease... A person is clever but people are stupid... f**k 'em, don't bother complaining... I wonder if there are any half caste kids on the list? My cousin's are half caste but they act like they are black... Some act like they are white... Because it's weird to be trapped between two cultures... The reason people are so xenophobic in my country is because people from other nations can come along and get what they want because people are too scared to tell them if they do wrong. As soon as a NATIVE, ABORIGINAL english person (oops almost said "man" there:) cries out about it, their chastised for being racist... Just forget it... Say anything about race and colour and people get shirty about it straight away as if it belongs to them... Well, this is a big f**k you to all you closed minded b***ards out there. Welcome to the 21st century... Another 100 years of death and hatred ahead I bet... Why can't people just put up with it, hey? It's only bl***y music for Christ's sake... Later suckers, Nick:) --- Scott Brandon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In response to KDJ quotes from Charles Prince... > > OK, > It takes a bit to get me to post, but here goes... > I'm so sick of this > Black/White thing... Race is race, and music is > music... The two are in > some ways intertwined but a piece of music is it's > own entity, sentient and > soveriegn... Yes the founding fathers of techno > were black, and deserve a > great deal of respect for their accomplishment... I > love KDJ's music... But > I can't help but be bothered that this stereotype, > and reverse racism is > being carried on To say that to understand > soul music you have to be > black, because that's who it was made by and > intended for, is like to say > that to understand Christianity you have to be > Jewish, because that's who it > was made by and initially intended for (Just an > anology)... The whole thing > sucks Ideas are Ideas... Techno is an Idea... > or if you look at it > Jeff Mill's way, it's beyond an Idea... > > Isn't techno constantly refered to as 'future > music'??? What about a future > that is void of a separation between races??? It > seems that actually many > people are still living in the past... I'm of white > skin color & I love > techno and house I FEEL techno, and > house in my soul... All of > it... From the hard to the deep (actually more on > the deep side)... Who's > to say who can and can't feel certain music just > because of race, color, or > creed??? I may not have lived Curtis Mayfield's > life, and neither did > anyone else on this planet, but I can ***FEEL*** his > music... I can feel > what he's talking about, what he's expressing > through his music, and his > voice... The same with Marvin Gaye or Chic, it's > the beauty of the human > ability to empathize... I would never tell Alan > Oldham that because he's > not white he can't appreciate My Bloody Valentine or > Shoegazer music (which > he loves and respects), or tell Jeff Mills he > couldn't do Final Cut because > industrial was a white thing... This is because I > refuse to lump sentient > human entities into catagories!!! Music has no > color... It's like a white > guy getting pissed that Carl Craig remixed 'Moskow > Diskow' or 'Problemes De > Amore' because they were "white musics", or to say > that giorgio moroder had > no soul. Pretty Rediculous Right??? What was > techno?? Who and who > stuck in an elevator with a drum machine??? I think > you see where I'm > going It seems sometimes that for a group of > people who spend alot of > time trying to hide their identities or remain > 'underground' once it comes > to race it seems everyone's talking, and it's not > about all their > influences > > The truth is when it comes to the ***ART*** of > making music from the soul, > every soul speaks an individual language and who is > anyone to interpret that > message for anyone Or to tell anyone what they > can or can't feel??? > That's just irrational judgementalism. Let's > just get back to talking > about the music we love and not who can and can't > love and feel it. > > My 2 cents... > > - sb > One Ear to the Ground Communications > http://www.totheground.com (Coming Soon!!) > > - Original Message - > From: "Jongsma, K.J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <313@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:35 AM > Subject: RE: [313] Good artist steals? > > > > > > > > > one of my fav music quotes is > > > > > > "Sad in the 20th century, in the 1990s, we still > have to go > > > thru the same bullshit > > > route that other artists had to go to get > acceptance. If it > > > wasnt for the independents, > > > if it wasnt for the small little cities, and the > few little > > > ghett
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
ahhh. i see it is time for the bi-weekly techno / race debate.
RE: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
what you say?! all your race are belong to us ab [flip the scrip and down pitch the speed] >-Original Message- >From: Kyle J Dupuy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:28 PM >Cc: 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance > > > >ahhh. i see it is time for the bi-weekly techno / race debate. > > > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
RE: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
_and_ you entirely give away your level of priveledge by putting the words race and "annoyance" together in your subject line..we're so sorry our race/gender/etc. etc. etc. ANNOYS you in that you are forced to confront it sometimes but it has much more devastating effects on US..and we can't just escape it..put it in a box and declare "my work zone has nothing to do with this, it is a free and SENTIENT(?) area" ..and you really can't either though you can choose to stick your head back in the sand and ignore it.. *nauseous* -k
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
I've said it before, I'll say it again. You will probably not change anyone's views on race through email, particularly on a list this big, and especially when things get as heated as they've become. We are a very diverse list - racially, and geographically. Race problems manifest themselves differently in every society. Within each society we all have different degrees of exposure to, and sympathy for victims of racial injustice - and we all outgrow engrained racism at a different pace. All we can do is make our case and hope some of it sticks. But I implore you not to belabor your point in a global public forum. People become defensive when they perceive their views on race are threatened - especially in public. I think this might be what Nick is getting at, although I can't say I endorse his approach. You are more likely to bring someone around to your perspective if you take the time to foster an open discussion offline than by citing rhetorically charged quotes in a global public forum. If your goal is to piss people off that don't understand where you're coming from, keep on spewing heated rhetoric. If your goal is to educate, persuade, and (God forbid) learn, then find out why you disagree and start a discussion - offline. Tristan -- http://ampcast.com/phonopsia <- My music http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Mixes, pics, thought, travelogue & info [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
Ok let's see past the colors. Obviously it doesn't matter anyways. We can't see what color each other is over the netwaves. That is one of the beauties of the internet. If you ask me, race is not a problem. Sure it would be great if we were all the same color, but we're not. Music as well as the internet is a beauty in life that sees thru the colors and blends the culture. Let's concentrate on the good things: music, uninhibited conversation, fine foods, comfort, and did Imention music? Yeah techno music--my personal favorite. Peace! WRAITH313 www.mp3.com/wraith313 -Keep it real, don't let the real keep you- PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
> You are more likely to bring someone around to your > perspective if you take > the time to foster an open discussion offline than > by citing rhetorically > charged quotes in a global public forum. If your > goal is to piss people off > that don't understand where you're coming from, keep > on spewing heated > rhetoric. If your goal is to educate, persuade, and > (God forbid) learn, then > find out why you disagree and start a discussion - > offline. Yeah, totally... Like I said, we've been through the race stuff before... Every few months we do it again... I think I bemoaned it last time in fact, I said this would happen didn't I? Who cares... Why don't we start a new list???... 313RaceFlames... We could argue forever, I mean no one wants to find an answer... No smilie this time, Nick __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
"But I can't help but be bothered that this stereotype, and reverse racism is being carried on " nothing 'reverse' about it, it's racism pure and simple... this is the same type of argument which was used for years to suggest black people were 'tribal' and, in colonialist eyes, less worthy of education / investment and basically only good for plantations. I'm not denying there's a political argument to be had about race in music; more specifically, about the treatment of black art by the industry (which I believe Derek May was referring to). But before any of this bullsh*t carries on, please ask yourselves: what your reaction would be if it was the white Europeans on this list who were bitching about the use of Trans Europe Express by Afrika Bambaataa?' This argument is coming up far too often these days... -s _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
FWD: RE: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance
Later suckers, > I can't help but be bothered that this stereotype, > and reverse racism is > being carried on nothing makes me want to heave up fetid piles of putrid puke more than the phrase "reverse racism"... *rolls eyes* -k
