Re: [313] live vs. dj
I notice that everyone who is pro-PA seem to be producers themselves. So the question becomes, are we discussing the merits of live PAs as an audience member (who is presumably there to be entertained) or as a performer (who is there for more 'egotistical'- though not in a bad way, reasons) Please keep in mind that I am not anti-PA. But I have definately had more amazing nights with DJs. There are definately some stigmas attached to PAs. I remember at the Area 616 party, there was a live PA by a group called Bios, who went on after Surgeon and before Jeff Mills. I can't tell you how many eyes rolled when we realized that we were going to have to sit though a live PA (by a group we didn't know- no less) before getting to the reason we were really there (Mills). Well I was happy to report the next day that Bios rocked. So there are exceptions to every rule. On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Phonopsia wrote: - Original Message - From: Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: [313] live vs. dj uh... A DJ can play the best music from many artists for a long bloody time, a LIVE artist can only play a couple of their good tracks and a bunch of their boring stuff for two hours MAX... *you* decide what you want to pay for. And who decided this was an either/or proposition? One would think this was a corps of HPDJs waiting in the wings, ready to swipe gigs from real DJs with impeccable taste. God forbid someone would want to showcase their music in a format other than vinyl... One of the most gratifying experiences I've had as a DJ was spinning a set of my own music from CD, although the technical element was nearly boring for me (because my music is very structured and doesn't leave a lot of room to mix). Is this what I want to do every time I spin? God no. Was it a good time for all involved? Yes. Sorry in advance for being a producer (who was a DJ first) that likes to see people get off to his music sometimes. Sorry for exposing music in a way that would otherwise never be heard. Is it still OK to play unreleased tracks from Reel-to-Reel as was done once upon a time? If I just made music for my own pleasure, wouldn't that be elitist? If no one liked it that would be one thing, if it's challenging people's preconceptions about what performance is, or exposing unheard music that's another. Or if it's just a good time, and this is the method a producer has chosen to vocate in, that should be enough. If seeing five of fifty people go crazy to your own stuff for an hour is not adequate, what is? Isn't this what most underground DJs contend with most of the time anyway? I've heard endless stories about the method of reading a crowd as a DJ (which is generally a lofty idea aggrandized for effect) and in almost every case that DJ says they focus on a few people and try to drive them to new heights. How on earth could a DJ view an entire crowd and move them as one unless they had the hype-of-license-to-do-so or the hype of the party in advance? Isn't crowd reaction based on hype 90% of the time anyway? Let's demystify this discussion for clarity's sake. Don't you think some of the negative response to PAs is because there's a stigma against them? Wouldn't you like to showcase something that's entirely your own if people would respond to it? Isn't that the key, not method but response - assuming the music is quality? I recall a number of pro-Final Scratch arguments that would lead me to believe this is how you feel. Why is Final Scratch so much more legit than a PA, or a CD mix of unreleased material, or a vinyl mix of one's own dubplates (as is approximated with drum 'n bass)? Why the method fascism from someone who is so keen on driving into the future of DJing with Final Scratch? For the record, I have no beef with Final Scratch and would rather not see a rehashing of that debate. God knows there are an assload of bad PAists. SO WHAT? There are even more bad DJs. The rarity of good performances does not equate to a dismissal of all of them. Tristan --- Upcoming Gigs: 3/16/02 - Centripetal Force @ The Edge, DC 4/6/02 - The Basics @ The Abyss, DC 4/14/02 - Filler @ Blue Room, Adams Morgan, DC http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj
That argument is just absurd... Are you saying that a skilled musician can't play good music for one or two hours? I wonder what Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, all exceptions to the rule. pointing out great artists in this arguement really isn't a viable point. That's like saying 'if richie did a live pa again, it would rock, therefore all live pa's must rock.' The fact of the matter is that its just harder to be a 'skilled musician'. see the difference? _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj/ electropop
When I've seen Q-Burns live his stage presence was very good - he was extremely busy working loads of instruments and bopping along to his groove at the same time. I think he even look up at the audience on occasion. MEK Kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Peter Leidy [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: 313@hyperreal.org 03/16/02 02:31 PMSubject: Re: [313] live vs. dj/ electropop It's always easier to get people involved in a live set if there's a vocalist. I find that even some banter on the mic can help draw people in. As for stage presence, when you talk about other genres -- jazz comes to mind -- someone like Diane Krall is a bigger draw than an all instrumental group. The communication is up front and direct, coming from the human voice. You have to work harder to connect with an audience if there's no vocal presence. It's not that it can't be done, it's that you have to work at it. And the stage presence isn't always that important. Fred Giannelli had people hooting and hollering, even though his stage persona is of a statue wearing a miner's lamp ;-) On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Peter Leidy wrote: I havent been following this thread too closely- but- I know one of the big criticisms of live techno is lack of stage presence. Some would say stage presence is not required when the only goal is to get people dancing, but people inevitably have expectations and preconceived notions of what live music is supposed to consist of. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313] live vs. dj
uh... A DJ can play the best music from many artists for a long bloody time, a LIVE artist can only play a couple of their good tracks and a bunch of their boring stuff for two hours MAX... *you* decide what you want to pay for. Tiga makes me guile. Tosh -- Twelve Hundred Group http://www.1200group.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj
You must not have heard the right Live PA's. To lump all of them as boring is short sighted. There's plenty of DJ's that can also play boring stuff for a long time. I'd rather pay to see someone that is fresh and creative, no matter if it's live or not. Kevin http://www.mp313.com - Original Message - From: Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@HYPERREAL.ORG Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: [313] live vs. dj uh... A DJ can play the best music from many artists for a long bloody time, a LIVE artist can only play a couple of their good tracks and a bunch of their boring stuff for two hours MAX... *you* decide what you want to pay for. Tiga makes me guile. Tosh -- Twelve Hundred Group http://www.1200group.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj
- Original Message - From: Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: [313] live vs. dj uh... A DJ can play the best music from many artists for a long bloody time, a LIVE artist can only play a couple of their good tracks and a bunch of their boring stuff for two hours MAX... *you* decide what you want to pay for. And who decided this was an either/or proposition? One would think this was a corps of HPDJs waiting in the wings, ready to swipe gigs from real DJs with impeccable taste. God forbid someone would want to showcase their music in a format other than vinyl... One of the most gratifying experiences I've had as a DJ was spinning a set of my own music from CD, although the technical element was nearly boring for me (because my music is very structured and doesn't leave a lot of room to mix). Is this what I want to do every time I spin? God no. Was it a good time for all involved? Yes. Sorry in advance for being a producer (who was a DJ first) that likes to see people get off to his music sometimes. Sorry for exposing music in a way that would otherwise never be heard. Is it still OK to play unreleased tracks from Reel-to-Reel as was done once upon a time? If I just made music for my own pleasure, wouldn't that be elitist? If no one liked it that would be one thing, if it's challenging people's preconceptions about what performance is, or exposing unheard music that's another. Or if it's just a good time, and this is the method a producer has chosen to vocate in, that should be enough. If seeing five of fifty people go crazy to your own stuff for an hour is not adequate, what is? Isn't this what most underground DJs contend with most of the time anyway? I've heard endless stories about the method of reading a crowd as a DJ (which is generally a lofty idea aggrandized for effect) and in almost every case that DJ says they focus on a few people and try to drive them to new heights. How on earth could a DJ view an entire crowd and move them as one unless they had the hype-of-license-to-do-so or the hype of the party in advance? Isn't crowd reaction based on hype 90% of the time anyway? Let's demystify this discussion for clarity's sake. Don't you think some of the negative response to PAs is because there's a stigma against them? Wouldn't you like to showcase something that's entirely your own if people would respond to it? Isn't that the key, not method but response - assuming the music is quality? I recall a number of pro-Final Scratch arguments that would lead me to believe this is how you feel. Why is Final Scratch so much more legit than a PA, or a CD mix of unreleased material, or a vinyl mix of one's own dubplates (as is approximated with drum 'n bass)? Why the method fascism from someone who is so keen on driving into the future of DJing with Final Scratch? For the record, I have no beef with Final Scratch and would rather not see a rehashing of that debate. God knows there are an assload of bad PAists. SO WHAT? There are even more bad DJs. The rarity of good performances does not equate to a dismissal of all of them. Tristan --- Upcoming Gigs: 3/16/02 - Centripetal Force @ The Edge, DC 4/6/02 - The Basics @ The Abyss, DC 4/14/02 - Filler @ Blue Room, Adams Morgan, DC http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj
That argument is just absurd... Are you saying that a skilled musician can't play good music for one or two hours? I wonder what Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, or Gustav Mahler would think about that idea? (All of whom had plenty of extended pieces/performaces that I certainly would NOT call boring). Does that mean you won't even listen to an hour long album by a single artist? Putting a set together is like telling a story, it's not about playing a couple greatest hits... It's about using a combination of rhythms, melodies, harmonies, and textures, in a way that makes a statement and moves people. If this is done creatively and passionately by people who are talented the music will be GOOD, whether it's a live PA, a live trumpet player, an orchestra, or a DJ. /cyborg k Original Message Follows From: Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@HYPERREAL.ORG Subject: [313] live vs. dj Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:24:42 +0100 uh... A DJ can play the best music from many artists for a long bloody time, a LIVE artist can only play a couple of their good tracks and a bunch of their boring stuff for two hours MAX... *you* decide what you want to pay for. Tiga makes me guile. Tosh -- Twelve Hundred Group http://www.1200group.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj/ electropop
I havent been following this thread too closely- but- I know one of the big criticisms of live techno is lack of stage presence. Some would say stage presence is not required when the only goal is to get people dancing, but people inevitably have expectations and preconceived notions of what live music is supposed to consist of. And I just had a thought that perhaps this is another reason why electro-pop is blowing up- because they always have singers (and often good-looking women for maximum audience response from predominantly-male music-geek community - adult, miss kitten, peaches, chix on speed :) not sure how this factors in tho, because it seems like all the electro-pop singers are always acting bored and apathetic which is traditionally not a good formula for maximum stage presence. hmm.. -p - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] live vs. dj/ electropop
It's always easier to get people involved in a live set if there's a vocalist. I find that even some banter on the mic can help draw people in. As for stage presence, when you talk about other genres -- jazz comes to mind -- someone like Diane Krall is a bigger draw than an all instrumental group. The communication is up front and direct, coming from the human voice. You have to work harder to connect with an audience if there's no vocal presence. It's not that it can't be done, it's that you have to work at it. And the stage presence isn't always that important. Fred Giannelli had people hooting and hollering, even though his stage persona is of a statue wearing a miner's lamp ;-) On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Peter Leidy wrote: I havent been following this thread too closely- but- I know one of the big criticisms of live techno is lack of stage presence. Some would say stage presence is not required when the only goal is to get people dancing, but people inevitably have expectations and preconceived notions of what live music is supposed to consist of. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
