Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
- Original Message - From: "robin pinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 > > > > I think a good example is that when Herbert started making house he was all > > about using nothing but samples (except for drum machines). I seem to recall > > see http://www.matthewherbert.com/Manifesto/Manifestoindex.html > > no drum machine either...ironically i was reading the above when the 313 > digest came tho :) Yeah. That's a more recent development, but a really cool idea too. Remings me Lars Von Trier's Dogma. Tristan -- http://ampcast.com/phonopsia <- Music http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Mixes, pics, thought, travelogue & info http://www.metatrackstudios.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
We concur. The soul will prevail Sooner than you think. doesn't music with heart always prevail though? always? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
We concur. The soul will prevail Sooner than you think. Mike R. and Ken D. Subject Detroit -where words fail music speaks- From: "laura gavoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:09:43 I agree. Bass, chords and/or a melody line of some semblance are what tell a story or touch a soul. Barring that, only afro-influence layers of drums/congas can take its place. I'm sorry but my soul is a bit more vast than minimal. I miss the Richie that could beat some DETROIT ass with a slammingly smooth tech-house set humbly offered. From: Kevin Conrad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) > the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it > doesn't make a track by > itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and > snares do sound old after > about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening > in the 'song'. That's why I get bored when he bangs away on it. I need to feel a bassline when I'm on the dancefloor. Kevin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
Funny thing about DE909: Richie did it at his new years eve party, Epok, but he had what appeared to be a larger array of instruments. I could make out a 303, an SH101 keyboard, and an 808. All I heard, though, was the 909. Maybe I didn't stay long enough to hear him use them (I left at 4:30am). I was, however, disappointed that I never heard any of the extra stuff being used. "laura gavoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 08/17/2001 02:09:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org cc: Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 I agree. Bass, chords and/or a melody line of some semblance are what tell a story or touch a soul. Barring that, only afro-influence layers of drums/congas can take its place. I'm sorry but my soul is a bit more vast than minimal. I miss the Richie that could beat some DETROIT ass with a slammingly smooth tech-house set humbly offered. >From: Kevin Conrad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) > > > the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it > > doesn't make a track by > > itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and > > snares do sound old after > > about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening > > in the 'song'. > >That's why I get bored when he bangs away on it. I >need to feel a bassline when I'm on the dancefloor. > >Kevin > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
I agree. Bass, chords and/or a melody line of some semblance are what tell a story or touch a soul. Barring that, only afro-influence layers of drums/congas can take its place. I'm sorry but my soul is a bit more vast than minimal. I miss the Richie that could beat some DETROIT ass with a slammingly smooth tech-house set humbly offered. From: Kevin Conrad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) > the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it > doesn't make a track by > itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and > snares do sound old after > about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening > in the 'song'. That's why I get bored when he bangs away on it. I need to feel a bassline when I'm on the dancefloor. Kevin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
Kao Jyan wrote on Thu, 16 Aug 2001 about following: > jeff mills and maybe others were using the 909 in dj sets before rich. frankie knuckles was using 909 in his dj sets when the box came available in mid-eighties. sakke -- "let me dream like a clairvoyant" - download : ego dissolve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
> > Without keeping something constant, you have nothing to build with. > > Constantly changing mediums means you'll never be doing something long > > enough to truely master it. Who cares if he uses the same instrument for 20 > > more years, as long as the inspirations are kept and the music is pushed to > > the limits. > > you don't have to CONSTANTLY change mediums. you just need to stop playing > the same rhythms ad nauseum. heaven forbid that someone doesn't think what > rich was doing was all that innovative in his sets last year. granted, he > did it first. he did it best. jeff mills and maybe others were using the 909 in dj sets before rich. i remember richie saying in real detroit that jeff convinced him that he could use the 909 and not sound the same, and you can definitely hear how they both use it differently. kaojyan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
> > I think a good example is that when Herbert started making house he was all > about using nothing but samples (except for drum machines). I seem to recall see http://www.matthewherbert.com/Manifesto/Manifestoindex.html no drum machine either...ironically i was reading the above when the 313 digest came tho :) robin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
> Without keeping something constant, you have nothing to build with. > Constantly changing mediums means you'll never be doing something long > enough to truely master it. Who cares if he uses the same instrument for 20 > more years, as long as the inspirations are kept and the music is pushed to > the limits. you don't have to CONSTANTLY change mediums. you just need to stop playing the same rhythms ad nauseum. heaven forbid that someone doesn't think what rich was doing was all that innovative in his sets last year. granted, he did it first. he did it best. but maybe it should GO SOMEWHERE DIFFERENT. it's just that i feel that the 909-playing was stuck in a rut. it's probably temporary. who knows? the last time i heard him play, he wasn't screwing around with the 909 and was playing records and final scratch and it was more to my liking. he played a few times last year where he was laying off the 909 and i totally loved it. but when you hear him five or six times in a year about and hear him play a lot of the same records and the 909...you get tired of it. perhaps i shouldn't have went to see him so many times on the DE9 tour. (hey...it said decks, efx, and a 909..maybe i shouldn't have been so disappointed in the 909 part of it since it's almost to be expected.) :P -l - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
> the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it > doesn't make a track by > itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and > snares do sound old after > about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening > in the 'song'. That's why I get bored when he bangs away on it. I need to feel a bassline when I'm on the dancefloor. Kevin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
> the Detroit Symphony Orchestra plays music, notes. every time i've heard > Richie on the 909, it just sounds booring. he doesn't really seem to > program any sort of danceable rhythm. i would SO not go as far as to say that it doesn't have a danceable rhythm. and the comparison to the detroit symphony orchestra...okay...heheh...say that all throughout EVERY song, a flute player decided to TRILL during the entire performance. do you not think that would get old? > > the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it doesn't make a track by > itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and snares do sound old after > about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening in the 'song'. basically, the 909 is great until he started ABUSING it by playing the same rhythms into the ground during his set. and SCREW a 909 handclap. hands down my LEAST favorite sound on that machine. that's the ONLY reason i really really really didn't like some parts of his set...he just would play with the 909 too much for my tastes..and really that was only because he was playing a lot of the same rhythms over and over and for too long...other parts i did enjoy. and if i would have heard him play minus orange one more time i think i would puke. i like that track a lot don't get me wrong, but it's like hearing him play spastik...it's not his fault though...i mean people have ABUSED those tracks ad nauseum. i love the 909. it's a nice machine. fun to play with. nice and simplistic and has some nice sounds that are basically the foundation of sounds that are the foundations of techno (in general). maybe rich should mod his a lil bit more or something*shrugs* as far as the talk of the 303 being a foreground instrument, i would say that i disagree. if used properly, 303's make some nice background noise. :) and f*ck it...they make nice foreground instruments if you are into that aced thing, but it's not necessarily true that they have to be used as such. -l - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
From: "Jayson B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:: I'd just like to mention that i find it fascinating that someone who is so very concerned with being forward thinking has obsessively used one single instrument for 10 years or so. mind you richie has done things with the 909 that not many have done. I'm not disrespecting him in ANY way, i'm just trying to see what everyone thinks about this. Without keeping something constant, you have nothing to build with. Constantly changing mediums means you'll never be doing something long enough to truely master it. Who cares if he uses the same instrument for 20 more years, as long as the inspirations are kept and the music is pushed to the limits. Cheers. Dennis _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
the Detroit Symphony Orchestra plays music, notes. every time i've heard Richie on the 909, it just sounds booring. he doesn't really seem to program any sort of danceable rhythm. the 909 is a great tool to make a track, but it doesn't make a track by itself. i'm sorry, but those damn handclaps and snares do sound old after about ten seconds if there's nothing else happening in the 'song'. Mike From: "Chuck Norris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:12:06 -0400 the reason his last tour was so boring was cuz he wanked the f*ck out of the 909. Agreed. I stopped going to see the Detroit Symphony Orchestra because I just go so sick of all those overused brass and woodwind instruments. You've seen one person play an oboe, you've seen them all. (note: by using the detroit symphony orchestra I have kept this post 'on topic') _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
>From what I remember, the majority of the sounds on "Consumed" was a 303. I believe it was an interview in an issue of Future Music that Richie said that. The future passed you by. Labwerx Music http://www.geocities.com/labwerx - Original Message - From: Kent williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313 list <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 > > As far as the 303 goes, Richie Hawtin has used it more subtly and tastefully > than most producers. There's a lot of synth sounds on his records that > people don't recognize as 303 because he doesn't use it in full fart-squawk > mode. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
- Original Message - From: "Kent williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "313 list" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 > On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jayson B. wrote: > > > > point VERY well taken. and i agree. this brings me to another thing i've > > been wondering about: why is the '303' sound supposedly overused, when the > > 909 is not? Why are people so concerned with making new sounds, yet the 909 > > is an exception? curious. > > > Because the 303 is very much a 'foreground' instrument, which people have > used over and over again in tracks in a very stereotyped way. The 303 > is capable of a wider range of sound than people actually use -- there's > a narrow range of knob values that account for most acid tracks. > > The 909 on the other hand is used as a rhythmic bed for other sounds -- > It provides the skeleton for other sounds. The 909 sounds are practically > perfect for the application, too, for whatever reason. Nothing beats > the 909 kick -- the way that it cuts through a mix with a visceral thump, > yet doesn't take up too much room in a mix is phenomenal. > > As far as the 303 goes, Richie Hawtin has used it more subtly and tastefully > than most producers. There's a lot of synth sounds on his records that > people don't recognize as 303 because he doesn't use it in full fart-squawk > mode. I think a good example is that when Herbert started making house he was all about using nothing but samples (except for drum machines). I seem to recall he was even quoted as saying he knew DJs wouldn't play his records if there wasn't familiar percussion. You'll notice that even in Glitch where almost all the percussion has been replaced with synths and odd samples, the kick is still familiar. There's only so much you can do with a kick drum if it's still gonna be a kick. To a degree it is irreplacable if you're going to use one, and to date, most producers have opted for a 909 if using a lower octav e bassline (to my ears anyway), or an 808 if there's a higher-octave bassline. This is just a techno generalization of course, and there are milliions of exceptions. However, like I was saying the other day about musicality in '01, there's definitely a broadening of the acceptable percussion noises used these days, from digging into traditional sample archives and synthesizing/sampling new glitchy sounds. Tristan -- http://ampcast.com/phonopsia <- Music http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Mixes, pics, thought, travelogue & info http://www.metatrackstudios.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jayson B. wrote: > > point VERY well taken. and i agree. this brings me to another thing i've > been wondering about: why is the '303' sound supposedly overused, when the > 909 is not? Why are people so concerned with making new sounds, yet the 909 > is an exception? curious. > Because the 303 is very much a 'foreground' instrument, which people have used over and over again in tracks in a very stereotyped way. The 303 is capable of a wider range of sound than people actually use -- there's a narrow range of knob values that account for most acid tracks. The 909 on the other hand is used as a rhythmic bed for other sounds -- It provides the skeleton for other sounds. The 909 sounds are practically perfect for the application, too, for whatever reason. Nothing beats the 909 kick -- the way that it cuts through a mix with a visceral thump, yet doesn't take up too much room in a mix is phenomenal. As far as the 303 goes, Richie Hawtin has used it more subtly and tastefully than most producers. There's a lot of synth sounds on his records that people don't recognize as 303 because he doesn't use it in full fart-squawk mode. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
the boring thing about many of richie's sets in the last year or two isn't about what technology he's using, it's about dynamics. he just brings it up, then way down, then up, then down, with no middle ground. it's like being jack-hammered to death. which is why i love the new "closer to the edit" so much ... it stakes out a moodier, more mid-tempo terrain that uses dubby and tech-house textures rather than just all-banging, all-the-time techno. in short, at least on this cd, he's putting the funk back in it. and that's something i haven't heard in his sets too much in recent years (with the notable exception of the overpriced but fun new year's gig in detroit). brian -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:21 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 >>the reason his last tour was so boring was cuz he wanked the f*ck out of >>the 909. > >Agreed. I stopped going to see the Detroit Symphony Orchestra because I >just >go so sick of all those overused brass and woodwind instruments. You've >seen >one person play an oboe, you've seen them all. point VERY well taken. and i agree. this brings me to another thing i've been wondering about: why is the '303' sound supposedly overused, when the 909 is not? Why are people so concerned with making new sounds, yet the 909 is an exception? curious. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
the reason his last tour was so boring was cuz he wanked the f*ck out of the 909. Agreed. I stopped going to see the Detroit Symphony Orchestra because I just go so sick of all those overused brass and woodwind instruments. You've seen one person play an oboe, you've seen them all. point VERY well taken. and i agree. this brings me to another thing i've been wondering about: why is the '303' sound supposedly overused, when the 909 is not? Why are people so concerned with making new sounds, yet the 909 is an exception? curious. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
the reason his last tour was so boring was cuz he wanked the f*ck out of the 909. Agreed. I stopped going to see the Detroit Symphony Orchestra because I just go so sick of all those overused brass and woodwind instruments. You've seen one person play an oboe, you've seen them all. (note: by using the detroit symphony orchestra I have kept this post 'on topic') _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
I read an interview with Air recently (Remix magazine maybe?) where they said something to the effect that you can accomplish much more concentrating on one instrument (be it older, yet quality) than you ever would trying to learn the ins-and-outs of every new instrument that arrives on the market. This seems like a reasonable stance, and perhaps Richie follows the same line of thinking... -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:44 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909 >So... would the general consensus be that the whole DE909 thingy has pretty >much run it's course? I'd just like to mention that i find it fascinating that someone who is so very concerned with being forward thinking has obsessively used one single instrument for 10 years or so. mind you richie has done things with the 909 that not many have done. I'm not disrespecting him in ANY way, i'm just trying to see what everyone thinks about this. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Richie Hawtin - DE909
So... would the general consensus be that the whole DE909 thingy has pretty much run it's course? I'd just like to mention that i find it fascinating that someone who is so very concerned with being forward thinking has obsessively used one single instrument for 10 years or so. mind you richie has done things with the 909 that not many have done. I'm not disrespecting him in ANY way, i'm just trying to see what everyone thinks about this. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
