Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
I should amend this - Problem with Minneapolis is Chicago. Many artists overlook our city for that much larger one. at the same time, the proximity to Chicago has allowed Minneapolis to have a healthy house music 'scene' when the techno hasn't been it's starting to balance out now MEK
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: All the North Americans I know who have been over to Europe in the last year keep saying the same thing over and over, that electronic music culture in America is dying. Dying? It's been dead since 2001. -- --- DJ Entropy America's #1 Hardcore DJ/Producer http://www.djentropy.com Conservative/Libertarian/Republican/Right-Wing/Constitutionalist/whatevertheliberalmediacallsmethisweek http://www.livejournal.com/users/djentropy http://www.freestateproject.org C.O.C.K. - Conservatives Organized to Crush Kerry http://www.c-o-c-k.org
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? Tosh
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
i used to rave all night in a warehouse now i rave all morning at the gym. time to move to never never land... ...i mean berlin =P On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? Tosh
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
age depends on the person. in my teens I raved. in my early twenties I clubbed. in my mid/late twenties I've been all about graduate school. (I'm dragging my ass out to see algorithm in philly tomorrow though!) and I'm looking forward to graduation so I can finally start going out and seeing some of the stuff I'm missing now. I definitely am more of a home body now, and my interests aren't so narrow- but I'm in a bit of an opposite boat 'age' wise. I think politics effects alot of the atmosphere in the states. Could it be that the election year is overshadowing much of what's going on socially? dunno. Perhaps it's just the overall age group and music taste of the list. If we were on a *gasp* 'progressive house' list, would the post be diff't. It seems to be that the people from the states moving to Berlin are of a particular electronic music group of tastes? maybe you can be more insightful there Tosh. Is it about radio? Do they play techno on the radio in Berlin? Does that effect any outcome? You have to remember also when you say Europe it's much easier for people to city hop there. The trains or so much more connected and it's cheaper to travel. The economy is diff't...and face it, economy does effect social/entertainment life. ...just some ideas. diana --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i used to rave all night in a warehouse now i rave all morning at the gym. time to move to never never land... ...i mean berlin =P On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? Tosh __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
im waiting the first wave of sound-alike records from the We-all-moved-to-germany crowd. well, not waiting... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 8:00 PM Subject: Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America i used to rave all night in a warehouse now i rave all morning at the gym. time to move to never never land... ...i mean berlin =P On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? Tosh
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? we had a discussion with a slightly different focus last year about this. there was a thread that asked for anyone under the age of 25 on this list to pipe up. i think there was one person. i think the rubbishing of things like electroclash on here might be an age thing, for example. robin...
RE: (313) Electronic music culture in America
I believe the age thing is a big factor. Which is why I was so focused on the misguided marketing or promoting of techno. I think I would be safe to say that most electronic music is marketed towards a 25 and under crowdi.e. dance night clubs, raves, bars, small records stores, cliché' magazines,,etc. But for most larger cities and small cities the 25 to 40 crowd is the largest in population demographic. Come on we have to be honest, once we hit 30 it's hard to make it to these late night events with all of our other responsibilites. I'm starting to promote my live P.a.'s to Daytime,weekend festivals, Gallery Crawls,Park festivals, Car shows, Electronics or computer events, etc. and I'm getting way better response not to mention better pay. WAY more people actually buy c.d's and ask for contact information. The music at these events are usually reserved for Rock/top 40 or even some hip-hop. After getting booked I asked why aren't more electronic music being showcased and the event coordinator would state simply,,, No one from that music approaches me. For 25 years techno in america has been marketed to a demographic that's getting smaller and smaller and more divided. Of the number of 25 and under group, most are into hip-hop and top 40 and the rest are even more divided now days between the plethora of sub-genres within electronic music. Our techno shows very rarely pull progressive house heads or d-n-b crowds and vice-versa. An come to think of it, Even within 25 and under crowds we're poorly marketed. How many 18 year old non d.j.'s actually buy vinyl? Why is it that in almost every University sponsered event electronic music is missing in action with the exception of the occasional big name trance d.j. hear and there.? How do we expect for american, electronic music culture to grow, when our music is only expose to such a small portion of the population. I guess I'm ranting now, but a bunch of us down here in the south have been discussing this very thing. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 4:54 AM To: 313 Org Subject: Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. Good point, how much of it is due to age? we had a discussion with a slightly different focus last year about this. there was a thread that asked for anyone under the age of 25 on this list to pipe up. i think there was one person. i think the rubbishing of things like electroclash on here might be an age thing, for example. robin...
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
Damn you kids with 116+ posts in a day. Anyway, in answer to Toshie's questions: I think that part of it has to do with the way in which the discotheque tradition never completely died in Europe and continues today. When I was living in Toronto, the phrase let's do something tonight more often led to a round of beers at a pub than a night dancing. My experience elsewhere in North America has been similar. When you think about it, dance music's 'big break' in North America occurred as a repackaging of American (read: Chicago/Detroit/NYC) music by the booming European market. So we were getting into a European scene's re-reading of an earlier Chicago/Detroit/NYC scene, and it was fighting against the hostile post-disco legacy of the 80's in N. America. Interestingly enough, the N American 'scene' that has kept up a strong tradition of dance music up until now is the gay club scene. The styles have shifted and you're more likely to hear 'tribal' and 'circuit' flavours rather than techno or chicago-styled house, but the tradition(s) continue. It was mostly in these scenes that the remnants of disco percolated and eventually morphed into the Chicago house and NY garages scenes, so I wonder if this scenario might replay itself again. Hmmm. Luis On Wednesday, October 6, 2004, at 05:25 PM, Tosh Cooey wrote: All the North Americans I know who have been over to Europe in the last year keep saying the same thing over and over, that electronic music culture in America is dying. No clubs, all the smaller cities are non-existent for a DJ/live performance, etc. how true is this? I have seen some evidence via some of the labels I work with having trouble setting up tours that get outside of New York, Chicago, San Fran/LA. Is it really that bad? What would some of the reasons be? How would this be connected to the previous discussion about techno not selling? Tosh -- McIntosh Cooey - Twelve Hundred Group LLC - http://www.1200group.com/ Politics is parlour tricks. -W. Jean
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: All the North Americans I know who have been over to Europe in the last year keep saying the same thing over and over, that electronic music culture in America is dying. No clubs, all the smaller cities are non-existent for a DJ/live performance, etc. how true is this? Hm. I don't think this is exactly right. It depends how you measure it. People now have more access to create electronic music spaces than they EVER had even five yeears ago. What? Garage band and a hip-hop jam pack for only 150.00? Traktor's DJ Suite running only a few hundred bucks? Access to literally hundreds of hours of helluva DJ sets over the net? But there is growing reason to suspect that this doesn't translate into strong LOCAL cultures. I have seen some evidence via some of the labels I work with having trouble setting up tours that get outside of New York, Chicago, San Fran/LA. Is it really that bad? What would some of the reasons be? How would this be connected to the previous discussion about techno not selling? I missed that discussion--popping in and out you know. But i think that in order to really deal with this in some depth we have to understand the movement of capital and people across time and space and how that impacts listening preferences, purchasing preferences, and local club dynamics. and on top of that we have to grapple with the fundamental fact that we are growing older. when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. as far as moving capital and people, here's one way to think about it. i'm a house/techno head. i'm in saint louis. i've got an opportunity to go to the dc area because i have skills (not in house/techno, but in some other area). do i stay in saint louis? or do i go to dc? if most heads have these types of options...if most djs have these types of options...then over time what will happen is that there will be a few STRONG areas (detroit, chicago, etc.), and other much weaker areas. and as the people with the skills are able to travel farther and farther (and the comparison is now between london and dc rather than between saint louis and dc), the number of cities grows smaller, and the local culture becomes more and more intimate. lks
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
Well, things in Minneapolis are looking up. I would consider Minneapolis a smaller city. Within the last year we've had Stacey Pullen, Claude Young, Ghostly artists numerous times, Merck has a presence here, Derrick May is scheduled as is Dan Bell, Bunker artists were here not too long ago, Green Velvet has been back and forth, Common Factor was here as well. I'm sure I'm forgetting... We now have a regular techno night in a major night club - big room I might add. In addition there are several smaller clubs that regularly book techno artists. Many of them quite experimental. I'd say that less than a handful of promoters have been responsible for this boost in techno sounds. There is a lack of diversity though amongst the available clubs willing to open their doors to this sound. Too many are doing the usual meat-market top 40 club. Either that or playing very safe house music. Problem with Minneapolis is Chicago. Many artists overlook our city for that much larger one. These events are not an every day of the week occurrence and there are some slow weeks but it's looking much healthier here than it has in a number of years. Still, compared to Europe... well it just doesn't compare. Generally, people's awareness of artists has to be elevated and get out of the conservative mindset. Generally don't find that in smaller cities. Who's responsibility is that though? Record stores? Other DJs? Promoters? Not sure MEK Tosh Cooey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org cc: 10/06/2004 05:25 Subject: (313) Electronic music culture in America PM All the North Americans I know who have been over to Europe in the last year keep saying the same thing over and over, that electronic music culture in America is dying. No clubs, all the smaller cities are non-existent for a DJ/live performance, etc. how true is this? I have seen some evidence via some of the labels I work with having trouble setting up tours that get outside of New York, Chicago, San Fran/LA. Is it really that bad? What would some of the reasons be? How would this be connected to the previous discussion about techno not selling? Tosh -- McIntosh Cooey - Twelve Hundred Group LLC - http://www.1200group.com/
