Unexpected External Call Back...

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

I have an inherited Mac, 4D v15.4 database where a certain interprocess 
variable was unexpectedly undefined. Then one method said it could not be 
executed. After setting a couple of key trace statements, I noticed that the 
variable was not populated (the smoking gun) and that "External Call Back” was 
part of the call chain.  So, what could be the culprit here?

External Callback
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbpckw9f5tsup65/Screen%20Shot%202017-04-07%20at%209.55.22%20PM.png?dl=0
 
.
 Note: part of the data from parameter $3 was redacted..

Method cannot be executed error that starts to process and reports “User 
Cancelled” which is not true...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqxh1w7swwvj6ic/Screenshot%202017-04-07%2022.06.31.png?dl=0
 


Thanks,

Robert
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Unexpected Command Key Shortcuts (15.4)

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

It seems that the 4D v15.4 command key shortcuts changed on me while in use….  
Restoring to a factory preset did not help the situation. Note that "Go to 
line" is Command-L instead of opening a form, the usual behavior.

The unexpected shortcuts using v15.4 Client/Server:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/um26ff055bpc76x/Screenshot%202017-04-07%2022.23.07.png?dl=0
 


The expected command key shortcuts, running v15.4 Single User:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdc01cko1ygt2lc/Screenshot%202017-04-07%2022.23.36.png?dl=0
 


How can I make client server use the normal 4D shortcuts?

Thanks,

Robert

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Re: EXECUTE the cooperative (illegal) code in the preemptive (multi-core) context.

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Andreas, can you tell me what code you used that generated an error? I'd
like to reproduce that.


Okay, super weird findings. I'm not sure what the behavior is meant to be.
Yesterday, I spent 5-10 minutes setting up a new scratch database to test
this stuff out a bit. I created a preemptive worker method with no code -
just something to serve as a launching point. I then tried passing in
various bits of code via CALL WORKER to see what would happen. What I was
hoping for was a trappable error. Since these errors are only going to
happen in compiled mode at runtime, I want to be able to detect them. This
way, you can set up a set of tests to process the kinds of code you plan to
run this way before shipping a product with runtime-only bugs.

So. I tend to keep my sketches simple. I figured "try something illegal". I
tried ALERT. As it turns out, it's not illegal, it shows up in User. (Well,
it shows up in some situations but not others, for some reason.) That's
documented, I just didn't know. So then I tried Open window and a loop with
MESSAGE. Not allowed. But it didn't generate an error. No window, no
messages, no error.

After Andreas wrote back, I figured I'd look a little more, and a little
more carefully. Anyway, I moved on to other illegal commands. I tried
DIALOG and Begin/End SQL blocks. No errors. But I did notice something
interesting by using the Runtime Explorer's process list. You can see from
the icon what sort of process a worker is. I launch the preemptive worker,
all good. I pass in illegal code and the worker tends to become cooperative
and/or be killed. So, it switches mode on the fly, doesn't necessarily run
the provided code, and at no point throws an error.

Assuming that I'm not doing something silly and confusing myself, the
behavior I'm seeing is problematic in a few ways:

1) I'm passing code into a worker and it's not being executed. That could
be a show-stopper.

2) I'm passing in illegal code, 4D's recognizing the problem and dealing
with it by (it seems) suppressing the code...but I'm not getting an error.
How am I meant to know that I've done something wrong?

3) 4D seems to be killing and respawning the worker. Also a potential
show-stopper. Why? A nice feature of workers is that they *persist*. That
gives you a group of variables/selections/etc. that is stable and
(semi-)protected for the lifespan of the worker. If you kill the worker,
you lose all of that state/data. Well, passing in a bad call seems to be
enough to wipe all of that data out without notice and restart the worker
on the main core.

Given how much unexpected behavior I've found in just a few minutes of
looking, I'm guessing that I've got an incomplete and inaccurate picture in
my head of how all of this works. I'd be very grateful to anyone else that
will set up some tests and see what they see. It really only takes a couple
of minutes. It's super easy to get tunnel vision when you start tracking
stuff of this sort down so there's nothing better than a few people
pursuing the question in their own way.

For the record, this is a brand new, V16 database built from scratch.
There's nothing much in it, just bare bones stuff to take a look at this
behavior. I've not set a custom error handler so I should see 4D's default
error dialogs. I'm not sure what to make of it all.

Note: I've checked the docs and did not find any discussion of what is
supposed to happen when you pass 'illegal' code to a preemptive thread:

Preemptive 4D processes
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/Preemptive-4D-processes.300-3036340.en.html

CALL WORKER
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/CALL-WORKER.301-3036044.en.html
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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Jeffrey:

Hmm, well that puts a little different light on this issue, eh?

My point of contact was pretty certain that 12.6 will resolve the printing
issue.

Guess we'll find out next week. :-)



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I don't remember 4D fixing the "tiny text" thing in v12 -- I thought it
> was something that ended up getting fixed in Windows.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
>
> > On Apr 7, 2017, at 4:08 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tim:
> >
> > "4D v12.6 (final version) was released October 8th 2013.
> > Windows 10 was initially released July 20th 2015."
> >
> > Thanks for that info.
> >
> > I checked out the cert matrix for 12.5 vs 12.6 and 12.6 is a no go with
> 8.1
> > but, as you point illustrate, Win 10 didn't exist when 12.6 shipped. Some
> > users have been running the built client application (12.5) for about a
> > year and the only issue they've noticed is printed output is tiny.
> >
> > "if a certified environment is important"
> > Understood. Some organizations require that but not these folks.
>
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Re: EXECUTE the cooperative (illegal) code in the preemptive (multi-core) context.

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Andreas Overmeyer via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I got an error message from 4D
>

I got nothing. No error, no crash, and the code didn't run.

I was using single-user, macOS, V16 - what were you using?
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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

I don't remember 4D fixing the "tiny text" thing in v12 -- I thought it was 
something that ended up getting fixed in Windows.

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com

> On Apr 7, 2017, at 4:08 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Tim:
> 
> "4D v12.6 (final version) was released October 8th 2013.
> Windows 10 was initially released July 20th 2015."
> 
> Thanks for that info.
> 
> I checked out the cert matrix for 12.5 vs 12.6 and 12.6 is a no go with 8.1
> but, as you point illustrate, Win 10 didn't exist when 12.6 shipped. Some
> users have been running the built client application (12.5) for about a
> year and the only issue they've noticed is printed output is tiny.
> 
> "if a certified environment is important"
> Understood. Some organizations require that but not these folks.

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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Tim:

"4D v12.6 (final version) was released October 8th 2013.
Windows 10 was initially released July 20th 2015."

Thanks for that info.

I checked out the cert matrix for 12.5 vs 12.6 and 12.6 is a no go with 8.1
but, as you point illustrate, Win 10 didn't exist when 12.6 shipped. Some
users have been running the built client application (12.5) for about a
year and the only issue they've noticed is printed output is tiny.

"if a certified environment is important"
Understood. Some organizations require that but not these folks.



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi Doug,
>
> 4D v12.6 (final version) was released October 8th 2013.
> Windows 10 was initially released July 20th 2015.
>
> It is safe to say that v12 was *never* tested by 4D QA on Windows 10
> because Windows 10 didn't even exist at the time of the final release of
> v12.
>
> v12.6 is listed as "Not Compatible" Windows with 8.1 (Windows 10 came out
> after 8.1)...
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_12/VIntl/PDF_Format/4Dv12.6_Certif_Matrix.pdf
>
> v13.6 is listed as "Not Tested" for Windows 10:
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_13/VIntl/PDF_Format/4Dv13.6_Certif-Matrix.pdf
>
> v14.5 and v14.6 is listed as "Compatible" with Windows 10:
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_14/VIntl/PDF_Format/4D_v14_6_Certif_US.pdf
>
> v15.0 was listed as "Not Tested" on Windows 10:
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_15/VIntl/4D-v15_Matrix-Certif_EN.pdf
>
> v15.4 is listed as "Certified" for the Win 10 anniversary update, but only
> "compatible" with the original Win 10:
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_15/VIntl/20170902_CertifV15_4_INTL.pdf
>
> v16.0 is listed as "Certified" for the Win 10 anniversary update, but only
> "compatible" with the original Win 10:
> http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/
> Line_16/VIntl/4D_v16_0_CertificationMatrix_EN.pdf
>
> if a certified environment is important to your customer and your customer
> wants to use Windows 10, then you should be looking at either v15.4 or v16.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
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Re: [offish]WIndows 10 - phone home info

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

I'll add my voice to Little Snitch. I've been using it for the last three
years or so and can't imagine going without it on my personal system. It's
robust but easy to configure and gets regularly updated.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> ou might want to invest in something like Little Snitch or some other
> (outgoing) firewall.
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Jim:

Thanks for the heads up.

This client is using the "built client" and "built server" apps so I wonder
if the "broken 4D link" file will be an issue.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jim Hays via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Hi Doug,
>
> We ship and use v12.6 on Windows 10.  One problem 12.6 has that a 4Dlink
> file to the server won't remember name and password.
> (This is something we use for automated testing, so we run those tests with
> 12.5).
>
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > A client using V12.5 is starting to adopt Windows 10 and has asked about
> > going to V12.6 since the newer version, apparently, resolves "the Windows
> > 10 tiny print problem that 12.5 has."
> >
> > The Cert Matrix for 12.6 states that 12.6 is "not compatible" with 8.1
> and
> > does not list Win 10.
> >
> > Is 12.6 OK to use on Win10?
> >
> > Bonus question - is there any difference in Win10 compatibility between
> > 12.5 and 12.6?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Douglas von Roeder
> > 949-336-2902
> > **
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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Apr 6, 2017, at 2:39 AM,Douglas von Roeder wrote:

> A client using V12.5 is starting to adopt Windows 10 and has asked about
> going to V12.6 since the newer version, apparently, resolves "the Windows
> 10 tiny print problem that 12.5 has."
> 
> The Cert Matrix for 12.6 states that 12.6 is "not compatible" with 8.1 and
> does not list Win 10.
> 
> Is 12.6 OK to use on Win10?
> 
> Bonus question - is there any difference in Win10 compatibility between
> 12.5 and 12.6?

I don’t believe there is much difference between 12.5 and 12.6 in relation to 
compatibility with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. But I could be wrong. 

The big compatibility issues with v12 and Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 is 
printing. So if you don’t do any printing, then you won’t notice any major 
problems with v12 and Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

But if you print then font sizes will be super small. You can add code that 
will change object font sizes, to like double what they were, and get the 
printing to work with v12. But if you just upgrade to v13 printing works again 
and zero code changes are needed. Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 all print correctly.

So the simple test is to get v12.6 and Run it on Windows 10 and print something 
from 4D. If the printout looks great then I am wrong and v12.6 is compatible 
with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. But I’m pretty sure it was in v13 that 4D 
changed to the new Windows printer API that make it compatible.

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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RE: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Aloha Sannyasin,

I probably sound like a broken record talking about the compiler so much, but I 
really wanted to comment on this:

> As this is an internal database for our non-profits, it’s run in interpreted 
> mode, so no compiler checking done.
> I do a decent amount of the programing (for the past 10-years), and use what 
> I program.

The compiler is a great tool for catching coding mistakes; regardless of 
whether you plan to deploy compiled or interpreted: 
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=50223
"If after fixing your code you do not want to run your application compiled, 
simply click on the *"Clear Compiled Code"* button to remove the compiled code."

> I don’t think I can use the compiler to do checking either, as tons of the 
> code is carried forward
>  from v1 and v2, and lots of code written without compiler declarations.

This shouldn't prevent you from using the compiler; as long as you have either 
Developer Pro (singleuser) or Team Developer (client-server) the compiler 
should work for you - it doesn't matter how old the code is, the compiler 
should still function. If you don’t have Developer Pro or Team Developer then I 
think that the "Check Syntax" option should still work, even if the compile 
button is greyed out.

Aloha,

-Tim




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Re: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Thanks! I’ll be using both of those tips. I haven’t used On Error Call much, 
but will look into it. At a minimum, I want: “On Error, don’t crash my server!"

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Apr 7, 2017, 9:12 AM -1000, wrote:

Sannyasin,
Two things:
I make it a habit to check for -1 anywhere I'm using Find in array... it
just bites me if I don't.

For methods that run on the server, or even better for processes that run
on the server, wrap them in an On err call method that lets you manage the
errors yourself. Like not stopping for them. Log them or abort the process.
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Re: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Sannyasin,
Two things:
I make it a habit to check for -1 anywhere I'm using Find in array... it
just bites me if I don't.

For methods that run on the server, or even better for processes that run
on the server, wrap them in an On err call method that lets you manage the
errors yourself. Like not stopping for them. Log them or abort the process.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> Yes. The crash did happen when accessing an array with a negative index!
> If that’s the only thing that causes the crash, I can be extra careful
> about that and do checks. Thanks for pointing this out. And yes, I wrote
> that serious bug. :)
>
> As this is an internal database for our non-profits, it’s run in
> interpreted mode, so no compiler checking done. I do a decent amount of the
> programing (for the past 10-years), and use what I program.
>
> I don’t think I can use the compiler to do checking either, as tons of the
> code is carried forward from v1 and v2, and lots of code written without
> compiler declarations.
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Nigel,

I went through a similar process several years ago when I changed the
compile settings on a rather extensive database to 'all variables are
typed.' I forget the number but it was a lot. Daunting.

I forget how much time I spent on it but it turned out to be much less than
I thought it would and the overall improvement in the stability and quality
of the project was substantial and I've never regretted it.

As Tim suggested those are 69k instances where 4D is making a guess about
what's going on. As you start specifying some loose ends they decrease
dramatically. A single variable not typed could cause several dozen such
errors which all go away as soon as it's corrected, for instance. So that
number drops rapidly once you get going.

Vincent's 4DPOP macro module (I think) includes a macro called
'Declarations' - you can run this inside of a method and it will find all
the local vars, let you set the types and then write the declarations.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> ​...
>  and at 69000 errors decided that was not the way to go!..and could not
> run his retokenise code because this is a live system i am working on and
> its V12). Its feels better to me to have a system that does at least
> syntactically correct and is compilable
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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RE: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Aloha,

Yes. The crash did happen when accessing an array with a negative index! If 
that’s the only thing that causes the crash, I can be extra careful about that 
and do checks. Thanks for pointing this out. And yes, I wrote that serious bug. 
:)

As this is an internal database for our non-profits, it’s run in interpreted 
mode, so no compiler checking done. I do a decent amount of the programing (for 
the past 10-years), and use what I program.

I don’t think I can use the compiler to do checking either, as tons of the code 
is carried forward from v1 and v2, and lots of code written without compiler 
declarations.


Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Apr 6, 2017, 11:15 PM -1000, wrote:

To be honest, I don't understand these problems. Our main product relies 
heavily on the 4D webserver on the server, for years. So far there aren't any 
serious problems. If there are any, we wouldn't use 4D anymore.
And running the webserver on a client isn't an option for us.

The only problem we experienced which causes a server crash is accessing an 
array with a negative index. But such things are caused by serious bugs (during 
development).
What compiler settings do you use?

Regards
Lutz
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Re: 4D V12.5 OK with Windows 10

[Jim Hays via 4D_Tech]

Hi Doug,

We ship and use v12.6 on Windows 10.  One problem 12.6 has that a 4Dlink
file to the server won't remember name and password.
(This is something we use for automated testing, so we run those tests with
12.5).


Jim

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> A client using V12.5 is starting to adopt Windows 10 and has asked about
> going to V12.6 since the newer version, apparently, resolves "the Windows
> 10 tiny print problem that 12.5 has."
>
> The Cert Matrix for 12.6 states that 12.6 is "not compatible" with 8.1 and
> does not list Win 10.
>
> Is 12.6 OK to use on Win10?
>
> Bonus question - is there any difference in Win10 compatibility between
> 12.5 and 12.6?
>
>
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
> **
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RE: 4D Compiler

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

69,000 typing errors will not necessarily require 69,000 code modifications...

For example, if you have an untyped variable $a in a method, and in that method 
you use the variable 100 times. With 'all variables are typed' this would be 
reported as 100 typing errors. If you type that variable at the top of that 
method then compile again then the 69,000 would be reduced by 100. So don't let 
the 69,000 errors scare you, it may be much less!

The 4D compiler is trying to warn you about coding mistakes, it is better to 
fix those coding mistakes rather than ignore them. 
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=50223

-Tim



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Re: 4D Compiler

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

This is where strict variable nomenclature with typing info helps a lot.
You can easily create a method that can gather all locals in a piece of code, 
and add the declarations at the top of a method.
You can even apply that automatically using METHOD GET CODE and METHOD SET CODE.
OTOH if you have no variable nomenclature with typing…
69000 typing errors.
Forget it, seriously...

> Am 07.04.2017 um 18:29 schrieb Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> Nigel,
> 
>> I tried David Adams suggestion of trying ‘all vars are declared’ and at 
>> 69000 errors decided that was not the way to go!
> 
> You really should try to fix those...That is 69,000 places that 4D is 
> guessing what the variable type should be - instead of you explicitly telling 
> 4D what the variable type should be. All you need to do is use C_TEXT or 
> C_LONGINT or C_* at the top of your methods to declare what the variables 
> are. This is the best practice after all.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
> **
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RE: 4D Compiler

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Nigel,

> I tried David Adams suggestion of trying ‘all vars are declared’ and at 69000 
> errors decided that was not the way to go!

You really should try to fix those...That is 69,000 places that 4D is guessing 
what the variable type should be - instead of you explicitly telling 4D what 
the variable type should be. All you need to do is use C_TEXT or C_LONGINT or 
C_* at the top of your methods to declare what the variables are. This is the 
best practice after all.

Just my 2 cents.

-Tim



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EXECUTE the cooperative (illegal) code in the preemptive (multi-core) context.

[Andreas Overmeyer via 4D_Tech]

I got an error message from 4D

von unterwegs gesendet

> Am 07.04.2017 um 02:52 schrieb 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com:
> 
> - 4D's is meant to EXECUTE the cooperative (illegal) code in the
> preemptive (multi-core) context.
> 
> What happens? Not what I feared, not what I expected, not what I want, and
> not what's documented.
> 
> I'm curious what a) people thing should happen, b) what people want to have
> happen), and c) what other people see does happen.
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

anywhere you may use:
- Execute Formula
- other means of indirect code execution. Method(s), code stored in 
data for example

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 09:30:38 +0100, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Can anyone think of other examples where a var might be used in a way 
> that does not show up in forms/methods/scripts?
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Not copyable is not exactly true  ;)

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 20:34:59 -0500, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
>>> When he wrote 4D Compiler back in 1990 I thought he was a 
>>> programming god... 
>> 
>> So did ACIUS, given the original pricing.
> 
> I don’t remember the 4D Compiler 1.0 price. Was it $999?  I do 
> remember that you got 4D Compiler on a floppy diskette that was a key 
> disk you could not copy. I remember having to pass that disk around 
> at the place I worked whenever anyone wanted to compile and it asked 
> for the diskette.
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Preemptive execution question

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I have not read any more of this thread...
I am not able to use these commands...

What should happen:
- 4D should throw an error (interseptable by On Err) on the computer 
that caused the problem (i.e. client or server)
- abort the illegal code block. SO if the error occurs inside some 
looping structure, it is not just the loop that is terminated, but the 
entire enclosing block of code.
- move on to the next executable block of code 

is this what happens? I guess I will see as this thread progresses.
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 10:52:33 +1000, David Adams via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
> -- You've got a preemptive thread.
> -- It can't run a variety of commands.
> -- You push over some illegal code via CALL WORKER.
> -- 4D's is meant to EXECUTE the cooperative (illegal) code in the
> preemptive (multi-core) context.
> 
> What happens? Not what I feared, not what I expected, not what I want, and
> not what's documented.
> 
> I'm curious what a) people thing should happen,
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[npdennis via 4D_Tech]

> What compiler settings do you use? 

Do you have the range checking ON (top option in the compiler settings)? If not 
you should.


--
Neil Dennis
4D Developer since 1990


GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
716 East 1850 N
North Ogden, UT 84414

mailto:npden...@greatext.com
http://www.greatext.com/



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[Blog News] Accessing remote Log Files

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Hi Folks,

If you ever needed a system to access the logs folder of any given user of your 
system, here ist you solution:

http://blog.heintz.net/view-log-files-not-only-local-ones/ 


Have fun and feedback is welcome
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RE: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

To be honest, I don't understand these problems. Our main product relies 
heavily on the 4D webserver on the server, for years. So far there aren't any 
serious problems. If there are any, we wouldn't use 4D anymore.
And running the webserver on a client isn't an option for us.

The only problem we experienced which causes a server crash is accessing an 
array with a negative index. But such things are caused by serious bugs (during 
development).
What compiler settings do you use? 

Regards
Lutz

> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Hunter
> via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:56 PM
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Joshua Hunter 
> Subject: RE: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code
> 
> The web server process is very sensitive to any bugs. We ran into the exact 
> problem
> you are having. Our web team was suddenly very unpopular with the other
> developers. Any bug and the whole app would crash.
> 
> We no longer run any code on the web server process on 4D server. Instead we 
> run a
> client application that acts as a web server. This works pretty well.
> 
> The code that gets traced is the code on the machine that handled the 
> request. So if
> you make the request to your web server client application it will trace 
> there. The web
> server on client can run on the same physical server as your 4D server so 
> long as
> they aren't both handling requests on the same port.
> 
> The biggest hurdle we had was getting the correct 4D licensing. There was a 
> special
> license to make the client run the web server. This may be made more difficult
> because we are an OEM.
> 
> Joshua Hunter
> jos...@dwdev.com
> (425)673-1974
> www.dwdev.com
> Dataworks Development, Inc.
> Providing secure and configurable data management solutions for research and 
> clinical
> labs since 1987.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin
> Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 2:14 PM
> To: 4D iNug Tech
> Cc: Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> Subject: 4D Server Crashes When Tracing Buggy Web Connection Code
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> If I trace On Web Connection code on 4D Server v15.3 Mac, and I goof and 
> reference
> an out of index array (I know I’m the first to ever do that), our server 
> crashes. It just
> quits to the Finder, no error message nothing. I view the trace via screen 
> sharing to
> the server machine.
> 
> This is disastrous when other people are using 4D!!
> 
> Have others run into this? What’s the best way to debug On Web Connection code
> without crashing the server?
> 
> Maybe starting the webserver on 4D client? But how does adding a “Trace" On 
> Web
> Connection code work? Won’t it still trace on the 4D Server?
> 
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> *
> *
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Re: Listbox row select

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Unless the listbox is not focusable, in which case the selected row has the 
highlight colour all the time. I think.

Jeremy


Jeremy Roussak
j...@mac.com



> On 7 Apr 2017, at 01:23, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> in general, selected list items are grey when inactive (does not have focus)
> 
>> 2017/04/07 8:38、Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> 
>> I am getting 2 different row highlight (colors)
>> 
>> - When row is selected indirectly LISTBOX SELECT ROW (grey)
>> - When row is directly clicked (blue)
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Douglas.

Yes that is kind of what i thought and can remember the old days  so would kind 
of expect it to have failed after one of those passes and-when you have fixed 
of type x get more but that really was not what i saw-i had syntax errors( to 
many” }"or “)” etc) and variables re-declared differently etc but and i had 
only cleared about half of them when it suddenly found all the 
$Something:=confirm(“something”;”Yes”;”No”)..lots of them and if else else etc. 

I did notice though that when I cleared ‘general’ errors(Which oddly where not 
at the top) that did seem to allow it to find more..I finally got through this 
one after 2 days at it(I tried David Adams suggestion of trying ‘all vars are 
declared’ and at 69000 errors decided that was not the way to go!..and could 
not run his retokenise code because this is a live system i am working on and 
its V12). Its feels better to me to have a system that does at least 
syntactically correct and is compilable.

Of course now i got some ‘fallout’ I found that at least one Variable was used 
in a 4D Write document and the same var(Interprocess) was a number and then 
somewhere else a string..changed the name of the variable in the string and 
then was told a document was not working…Can anyone think of other examples 
where a var might be used in a way that does not show up in 
forms/methods/scripts?

Nigel Greenlee




> On 6 Apr 2017, at 21:47, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Nigel:
> 
> A couple of thoughts on this…
> 
> I couldn't find this documented but 4D's compiler does three "passes"
> through the source code (when you're not typing all of your variables).
> IIRC, the compiler displays what it's doing for each pass but newer
> versions of 4D + modern hardware are so fast that I haven't seen the
> "label" appear in the compiler window.
> 
> For the sake of argument, lets' say that the three passes are something
> like syntax, declarations, and then parameter type matching. There must be
> no errors in one phase before the compiler will move on to the next.
> Perhaps what you're seeing is that as you resolve errors during the syntax
> phase, those changes engender issues within that same phase.
> 
> Once the issues in the syntax phase are resolved, the compiler will run the
> declarations phase and will report those errors.
> 
> Rinse, lather, repeat for the next phase.
> 
> 
> Second issue is that 4D's compiler used to scan methods sequentially, based
> on ID, and would check parameters based on the parameter list that exists
> for the first instance of a method.
> 
> This was my observation of the early versions of the compiler so it could
> be observer error/bias and 4D could have completely revamped how the
> compiler functions. Also, in the 25 years or so since I made this
> observation, I've never gone back and checked. :-)
> 
> Having just done a 2004 to 15 conversion, I saw the same behavior you're
> experiencing and it was *not* a pleasant feeling. Most of the time I
> compile it really is just a "spell check", so it was unnerving to compile -
> error fix - compile and get more errors - error fix - compile and get
> different errors. No fun at all but an inherent part of the process of
> "getting to done".
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
> 
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 1:56 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> David
>> 
>> Thanks for the insight. I think i might try that-day 2 and half already of
>> this! Hopefully the compile with ‘all vars are declared should show me what
>> is not declared(!)…i would love to be able to run my code(which i spoke
>> about on here) that now auto sets the declarations of variables at the top
>> of methods and declares everything that does not comply with the naming
>> convention and is not declared as //C_UNKNOWN..but alas not much naming
>> convention in play. I will try your re-tokenize code shortly.
>> 
>> My next ‘side task’(now that i have my updated code repository
>> working-although not installed on the system i am talking about here yet)
>> is to write something that will report repeating methods-methods and
>> scripts that are identical or near identical, and i think as part of that I
>> will get it to report if there are invalid method names in new process(I
>> find it annoying that ‘find unused methods’ shows any methods called only
>> in new process or from a menu as uncalled)
>> 
>> As with most people my own code never assumes parameters these days-with
>> all vars passed put into locals which really helps with parameter checking
>> in the code-and very few vars not passed(so a big reduction in process vars
>> and virtually no interprocess)..but we are someway from even starting on
>> that here
>> 
>> I will go vote..
>> 
>> Nigel Greenlee
>> 
>>> On 4 Apr 2017, at 22:58, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nigel,
>>> 
>>> The Compiler changed some versions back and no longer 

Re: 4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Tim

I bow to your knowledge on this. I only go back as far as version 2.5 of 4D and 
in my first year of work did not have the compiler. I suspect there is little 
of the original David Hemmo code in the current compiler now. 

> On 7 Apr 2017, at 02:34, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2017, at 7:52 PM, Lee Hinde wrote:
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wonder whatever happened to the original 4D Compiler writer David Hemmo?
>> 
>> David’s at Apple now.
> 
> I wonder what group he works in. You think he’s in the group that works on 
> compilers, LLVM, Clang and all the super low level stuff?
> 
>>> When he wrote 4D Compiler back in 1990 I thought he was a programming 
>>> god... 
>> 
>> So did ACIUS, given the original pricing.
> 
> I don’t remember the 4D Compiler 1.0 price. Was it $999?  I do remember that 
> you got 4D Compiler on a floppy diskette that was a key disk you could not 
> copy. I remember having to pass that disk around at the place I worked 
> whenever anyone wanted to compile and it asked for the diskette.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> timnev...@mac.com
> 
> 
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