Re(2): Window reverse layering issues
Hi Chip, Does the incorrectly-layered window (the type 8 in this case, supposed to be in back of the modal) receive events? I haven't tried that yet. Thanks, Don >how about... >a bit clunky - but should work > >when you open the modal dialog on top of the non modal window, you grab >the modal window's window reference. > >then in the form event of the non-modal (I presume larger window) >during either On OUTSIDE CALL and/or ON ACTIVATE: >Hide Window() >Show window() > >You have to issue Hide Window, otherwise Show Window does nothing. >This will bring the modal window to the front, removing the double >square cursor > >BTW - the user can also use to swap window positions if one >gets hidden. > >Side Note: this can be avoided on a Mac by using window type 34 (sheet >window) then the dialog shows up as a 'pop down' window and is part of >the main window. > >Chip > >On Thu, 2 May 2019 15:59:09 -0700, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech wrote: >> Having a couple of problems with window layering and wondered about >> what other developers do as workarounds. >> >> 1. A 4D application has two processes, each with windows being shown. >> One process has two windows: a semi-modal dialog on top of a Type 8 >> non-modal. User is over in another (windowed) process, and clicks >> back onto the wrong window of the first process (the Type 8 instead >> of the semi-modal)...and so gets the double-square cursor. The user >> is not familiar with 4D per se and therefore doesn't know about >> [Ctrl]-Z. >> >> 2. The same situation as #1, but the user is in an external >> application like Chrome. Instead of using [Alt]-[Tab] to return to >> 4d, the user clicks with the mouse, and doesn't click on the >> frontmost window. >> >> Anybody? >> >> Thanks, >> Don >> >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** >--- >Gas is for washing parts >Alcohol is for drinkin' >Nitromethane is for racing ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): Window reverse layering issues
Hi Steve, Right now I do this, which works within the same process, but not coming from another process and clicking on the wrong window. Where would I fold in the process ID? Thanks, Don case of : (Form event=On Deactivate) & (bCnDlg=0) & (bOKdlg=0) & (bPrint=0) & (bMyCnfmOption=0) If (Current process=Frontmost process) BRING TO FRONT(Current process) End if end case - >Don, > >For situation #1, simply put code in the "On Deactivate" form event and >make the window come back to the front. Be sure to get the Process ID >so you know to only activate this logic when the user is physically in >the process. > >Best, > > >Steve > > >-Original Message- >From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of Don Lapin via >4D_Tech >Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 5:59 PM >To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4D.com> >Cc: Don Lapin >Subject: Window reverse layering issues > >Having a couple of problems with window layering and wondered about what >other developers do as workarounds. > >1. A 4D application has two processes, each with windows being shown. >One process has two windows: a semi-modal dialog on top of a Type 8 non- >modal. User is over in another (windowed) process, and clicks back onto >the wrong window of the first process (the Type 8 instead of the semi- >modal)...and so gets the double-square cursor. The user is not familiar >with 4D per se and therefore doesn't know about [Ctrl]-Z. > >2. The same situation as #1, but the user is in an external application >like Chrome. Instead of using [Alt]-[Tab] to return to 4d, the user >clicks with the mouse, and doesn't click on the frontmost window. > >Anybody? > >Thanks, >Don > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Window reverse layering issues
Having a couple of problems with window layering and wondered about what other developers do as workarounds. 1. A 4D application has two processes, each with windows being shown. One process has two windows: a semi-modal dialog on top of a Type 8 non-modal. User is over in another (windowed) process, and clicks back onto the wrong window of the first process (the Type 8 instead of the semi-modal)...and so gets the double-square cursor. The user is not familiar with 4D per se and therefore doesn't know about [Ctrl]-Z. 2. The same situation as #1, but the user is in an external application like Chrome. Instead of using [Alt]-[Tab] to return to 4d, the user clicks with the mouse, and doesn't click on the frontmost window. Anybody? Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support
I would suggest keeping the pressure on them. They've gone every which-way about promising 4D Write Pro features. As it has been delivered, it is unusable. I've the same issue with Word compatibility. When I click on the link from the original poster, I get into a list of forums, not the request. What's the problem -- login? Thanks, Don >On Aug 29, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck Miller wrote: > >> I also have one client that is a huge 4d write user. We also need to >have ability to convert to Microsoft word. Additionally, there are some >things we do not seem to be able to do in write pro so for now, we will >be maintain 4d write licenses across multiple servers and standalone >dos. At the last Summit many spoke of this issue and 4D stated that they >were going to implement export to word and not rtf. > >That's fantastic news! Glad to hear support for Word is coming. > >Tim > >* >Tim Nevels >Innovative Solutions >785-749-3444 >timnev...@mac.com >* > >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Listbox horizontal jumpiness after editing a cell
Does anyone have a solution for this? I've put up with it since I started using listboxes, but it seems there should be a way around it. - Selection-based listbox - Horizontally scroll to and then edit a cell that's off the visible "window" to the right. - Exit cell after update (clicking elsewhere out of cell or hit return) -> listbox returns fully to left hand side, and user can no longer see the edited cell. Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): Layered transaction - need to push and pop?
Hi Kirk, The program is currently single-user. I did include load-wait and unload type record handling which I use on server applications. I considered variables. It might run faster, too, though I don't know how 4D manipulates records within transactions. Ssince it's happening in memory, they might already be using variables. I'm using separate methods to identify missing/unavailable data, calculating or using substitute techniques, and writing warning/error messages. I had hoped to use them as building blocks, so I would not have to duplicate the logic in another place. But I could re-write, it might not be as bad as it seems at first. I'm still wondering why 4D holds the wrong field contents at the end, after rolling back the transaction. Just doesn't seem right. Thank you for the detailed comments, Don >Hi Don, > >A couple of thoughts. First, and I'm assuming this is running on 4D server, >I'm not a fan of opening a record for editing in a transaction when you >also manipulate other records. This example illustrates why - each record >you touch in becomes locked to the transaction if you change it and if the >user walks away from their workstation (or goes home) it's a real problem. >In such a case I prefer to set a semaphore for the record (eg. >"[table]_edit_[recordID]" ) to prevent anyone else from working with it and >then save the final changes. > >Regardless of that I'd do this sort of calculation entirely in variables. >Just load all the record data into the arrays and manipulate those. When >you have a solution you can update the underlying records. For your items >you only need the id, and cost to identify it. Even if you need more I >think the 'cost' of loading that data into arrays is trivial compared to >manipulating the records directly. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Layered transaction - need to push and pop?
Hi, Suppose your birthday cake is the record, and the ingredients (sugar, flour, butter, chocolate, raspberries, etc.) are the related records. Now you want to run scenarios to determine the lowest cost of the cake while varying the ingredients. Each ingredient will differ in unit cost from the others (flour costs less per pound than, say, chocolate). Such a cake might be awful, but you plan to taste them all and come up with a compromise between the best-tasting and the cheapest. So you pick one ingredient to start (let's say flour), and you vary it in the recipe from 5-95 percent by weight, while keeping the overall cake weight the same. Your other ingredients remain in the same proportion to each other, but their total portion of the cake varies because you are changing the flour. So the ingredient weight percentages always total to 100. Your ingredients are entered into a field-type listbox, on the entry form. You start a transaction (it happens to be layered - the transaction, that is - since the data entry form is already in a transaction). You calculate the ingredient amounts and their price extensions, and enter them into the the related fields. You use arrays to record the varying percent flour (5-95 percent), and the total cake cost at each percent flour. The arrays are your product, so to speak, for listing and graphing. Then you cancel the inner transaction. When I do this, I am left with the entry form displaying the last cake cost in the range. Even though the ingredients in the listbox look okay. In the trace window, it also displays the wrong cake cost, so I don't think it's just a redraw issue. It should be displaying the original cake price, before I ran any tests. The only way I've made it work is if I push and pop the cake, which I do before the inner transaction starts and after it cancels. But 4D still thinks that the record has been modified, so when I click to cancel the cake, the code asks me if I'm sure that I want to abandon my changes. What gives? Anyone else had this experience? It's v.14.5 on Windows. Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): "Goodbye 4D Write" email
Please let us know what you find out, Tim. From here it's looking like there was never any intention of creating anything but a fig leaf. Thanks, Don >The big question now is, what is still on that list of things the 4D >Write Plugin can do that 4D Write Pro still cannot do? If there is a >feature that is super hard to implement, and nobody uses or asked for >it, why would they want to spend time implementing it? So I'm expecting >there to be a short list of things 4D Write Pro will not do that 4D >Write Plugin does. Emphasis SHORT LIST. > >So at this year's 4D Summit I am going to seek out the 4D Write Pro >engineers and ask them specifically for a list of features 4D Write Pro >will not provide that 4D Write Plugin does. Will they say "the list is >empty we are are implementing everything"? Doubtful. Hopefully that list >will not contain anything that I need. If it does, then I'll have to >lobby, and lobby hard, for them to add the features I need to 4D Write Pro. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): "Goodbye 4D Write" email
Hi Alfonso, I agree with most of what you state here. My customers for this application are on Windows, so I'm not as concerned about the 64-bit thing. Apple's always dropping "last year's" technology, but Windows maintains good compatibility, even with their 64-bit systems. Because the Write Pro product suffers from such a paucity of usefulness, I am hoping that they will at least allow plain 4D Write to run as a 32-bit plug in. Under present circumstances a "Goodbye 4D Write" email today seemed a bit off-key. Thanks for responding, Don >Hi Don, > >I agree with you that 4D Write PRO can't replace today 4D Write. >But, forget trying that 4D mantain 4D Write. Because MacOs High Sierra >is the last Mac Os working compatible 32 bits. So, all applications must >be 64 bits, in the future. >4D Write PRO borned 64 bits for that reason. >We have to ask 4D to get 4D Write PRO as close to 4D Write (commands), >as soon as possible. >There are great commands in 4D Write like "WR Direct find" . Would it be >on 4D Write PRO ? > >Idemsoft >Alfonso ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): "Goodbye 4D Write" email
Hi Brian, You did not answer the question regarding whether 4D will continue to work with 4D Write (the regular version, not the Pro). That's my primary concern at the moment. Since my rep told me that it would continue to work at the last developer event in San Jose, I don't understand why I would be getting a "Goodbye" email at this point. Was he wrong? Did I understand him incorrectly? This product is based on the functionality and capability of 4D Write, as painful as it was to write those lines of code. With regard to Pro, last I looked it had a ruler which blocks a much larger amount of the writing area (*thick* vertically), making the writing area too small on detailed forms. The existing 4D Write menus and toolbar use about 2.5 cm on the form, leaving about 8.5 cm of useful area (before zoom) for composing. The example you linked to, of a 4D Write Pro toolbar and menu combination, is about twice as thick. I think I have seen that example before. How would someone be able to use a word processing area over half of which is taken over by those thick elements? Fold in: - the apparent absence of the rich command set available in 4D Write, particularly commands involving procedural generation of forms and style sheets; - the absence of control for placing graphics on forms; - the absence of Word-compatible style sheets; - the absence of a Word export; ...what is left that's of any utility? Given how intuitive the existing 4D Write interface is for the average, word-processing-type user, why would 4D abandon that? Why do the 4D developers, rather than the developers of 4D, need to spend hours trying to reproduce a detailed, compact interface that was already in the product? Please find some answers if you can. A negative answer to the first one would make a product that I have spent most of my time working on since early 2015 become useless in new versions of 4d. These are all Windows users, so I have no interest in 64-bit stuff. Thank you for responding, Don >Hi Don, > >If you haven't already, please add your concern about "Export to MS >Word" to the 4D Forum where the Product team can see it and respond. >Here is a feature request you can up-vote: > >http://forums.4d.com/Post/EN/20813501/1/20814772#20814772 > >Among the posts linked in the email today is one that gives example code >to build a toolbar similar to the one in 4D Write: > >https://blog.4d.com/4d-write-like-toolbar-example-for-4d-write-pro/ > >We are working to make sure you and the 4D community are aware of the >resources already available by bundling 4D Write Pro related info together. > >my very best > >-Brian > > > > >Brian Young >Technical Marketing Manager >Telephone :+1-408-557-4626 >Email :byo...@4d.com >Web : www.4D.com >4D inc >95 S. Market Street, Suite #240 >95113 San Jose - United States >Standard : +1-408-557-4600 >Fax : +1-408-271-5080 > >On Jan 31, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists. >4d.com> wrote: > >Did anyone else get this "Goodbye 4D Write" email today? > >I was told by my rep that 4D Write would continue to work with future >versions of the program. I have over 200 customers on a 4D Write-based >application. Thousands of lines of code that procedurally assemble long >OSHA, Canadian, and EU chemical compliance-related documents. Complete >with Word-compatible style sheets and the export directly into the Word >(.doc) format. It's one of our biggest selling points compared to the >competition. > >When I last looked at their so-called "Pro" version, it had a tiny >fraction of the capability of 4D Write, and a clunky, witless widget >interface that won't even fit on my forms. No Word export. After all >time that they have taken to make a replacement, they came up with this. > >Am I not up to speed with progress on the "pro" version? Does it have a >normal interface again? Can it procedurally assemble documents with Word >style sheets and a Word export? > >Please let me know if you know more, or if I am mistaken. > >Thanks, >Don > > > >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
"Goodbye 4D Write" email
Did anyone else get this "Goodbye 4D Write" email today? I was told by my rep that 4D Write would continue to work with future versions of the program. I have over 200 customers on a 4D Write-based application. Thousands of lines of code that procedurally assemble long OSHA, Canadian, and EU chemical compliance-related documents. Complete with Word-compatible style sheets and the export directly into the Word (.doc) format. It's one of our biggest selling points compared to the competition. When I last looked at their so-called "Pro" version, it had a tiny fraction of the capability of 4D Write, and a clunky, witless widget interface that won't even fit on my forms. No Word export. After all time that they have taken to make a replacement, they came up with this. Am I not up to speed with progress on the "pro" version? Does it have a normal interface again? Can it procedurally assemble documents with Word style sheets and a Word export? Please let me know if you know more, or if I am mistaken. Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(4): Curious about "functional programming"
Thanks John. - Don > >> On Dec 22, 2017, at 1:44 AM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists. >4d.com> wrote: >> >> Do the difficulties of a functional approach apply to almost any >database-type application, or is it more the issues with error handling >in 4D? > >Difficulties implementing a functional approach arise from only being >able to do certain things with mutable data structures. Programming >languages that support a functional approach usually support both >mutable and immutable data structures. A database is inherently mutable, >so I suppose that part makes it difficult to begin with. > >> >> Are there other circumstances where a functional approach works well, >or is it simply an ideal? Do object-oriented languages (Python/Java/ >Apex?) work better in this regard, or is language unrelated to >functional programming? > >It works well for highly parallel systems and some newer languages were >designed with functional support features specifically for this purpose. >For example see Clojure, Haskell, and Erlang. > >John DeSoi, Ph.D. > > > >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): Curious about "functional programming"
Hi John, Do the difficulties of a functional approach apply to almost any database-type application, or is it more the issues with error handling in 4D? Are there other circumstances where a functional approach works well, or is it simply an ideal? Do object-oriented languages (Python/Java/Apex?) work better in this regard, or is language unrelated to functional programming? Thanks (also to Chuck) for replying, Don > >> On Dec 21, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists. >4d.com> wrote: >> >> 4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach. > >Completely true. Changing the database is non-functional. You could try >to enforce this discipline, but I think it would be difficult to get >real work done in 4D. Even if you never passed a pointer or used a >process/interprocess variable, a method might have side effects if it >changes the database or modifies an object parameter. Error handling in >4D is incredibly primitive compared to other languages and the only way >to get error information is via side effects. > > >> >> When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or >the other approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a >calling method? Or do these paradigms represent a distinction of no >practical significance? > > >I think making every method functional with minimal side effects is a >good goal. But I don't think it is possible to write understandable and >maintainable 4D code using a purely functional approach. > >John DeSoi, Ph.D. > >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Curious about "functional programming"
Hello, There seem to be at least two different "programming paradigms": - Procedural programming, where the subroutines make changes to the system; and - Functional programming, where called methods only return results to the calling method (ie, the called method does not perform any work which changes "state" of the system itself). There is some discussion of functional programming on Wikipedia. I looked back on forum messages and didn't find a discussion on this topic. Is it too abstract to be practical? When I'm creating something in 4D, I use both approaches. When some task runs to thousands of lines of code, I break it up into subroutines. Usually the subroutines perform the actual work - calculations which update field or array values. In some instances, I will write a routine which returns the work product without making other changes. But usually the task becomes more complicated when it must return its work, rather than simply doing the work. 4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach. When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or the other approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a calling method? Or do these paradigms represent a distinction of no practical significance? Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(6): 4D db -> SAAS
Hi Jim, We currently sell the program that way (as a single-user with 4D Volume Desktop). However, some customers are enamored of a cloud-based solution since "everybody else is doing it". Competitors offer web solutions, too. Another reason: some businesses who might not opt for a purchase might go for a per-usage (SAAS) fee, or a time-limited subscription. A paint company that needs fifty reports (one for each paint product) might find buying the program to be economical. But a company with just one or two products probably would want to go the web route. Another thought: We *might* have a more sustainable revenue model if we can charge renewals rather than annual upgrades. Thanks, Don >Unless I misunderstood the requirement, if it's a single user application and >the Data is particular to each customer but not the schema/structure than >why not use 4D Volume Desktop? > >Cheers > >Jim Labos - infobase > > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(4): 4D db -> SAAS
Hi Paul, Do you use a web account of your own to serve it, or do you use some sort of "cloud" setup through somebody like AWS, IBM, etc? Do you have an idea of the transaction volume, and how often do you need to check db integrity? Thank you, Don >I had this dilemma about 3 years ago with my energy calculation software for >architects which was standalone. I tried a few combo's such as using cloud >mysql with 4D standalone etc which works ok. In the end I went with browser >and lightning and 4D. It depends how dependent you are on 4D UI features. >The great thing about web is no install required and easy support. The >downside is its a pain to code all those single quotes in javascript drive >me mad. Dont even mention css what joker thought that one up. >Paul > > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): 4D db -> SAAS
Thanks Balinder. We have tried to survey them on how they like the product, but rarely get any responses. The few responses we get tend to be requests for features they want on a printed form, etc. The customers are mostly small businesses, and may not know what they want in terms of UI and local vs web - they may have been attracted to the low price point. A key function of the product is procedural generation of editable forms in 4D Write, followed by export to MS Word. The forms use style sheets which Word can also make use of. Any web solution probably would need a capability of this sort. It's likely I would want to see what you've done, so I will try to get in touch soon. Thanks so much, Don >Don, > >Easiest and quickest is what chuck recommends if possible. Of course if >customer ok to have shared db as long as it is secure they should not care. >Rewriting is eventually the best thing and should be your goal as in >node.js express and heroku etc. Infra cost is a lot less and 4D doesn't run >on Linux. We have written app in node.js just now and I can show you >privately if you like. The best thing about our is we have API access so 4D >UI with cloud json objects still is great way to deliver best quality >software. 4D alone is painful but when hosted with open source and >automated using devops CI/CD pipelines magically it starts to make sense. > >So question is your what your app customers want? web UI or 4D UI with >cloud json data? > >Balinder > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 at 20:20, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech < >4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > >> You could turn into server version by adding customer field to each table >> and after every query query for that customer. It would entail. A customer >> table Witt user name customer and field for related queries >> >> Regards >> Chuck >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Folks, >> > >> > I have a single-user, non-web-based 4D product in a specific area of >> chemicals regulatory compliance. It has taken me about two years to develop >> the application. With the 4D solution, we are charging for a one-time >> purchase and then for upgrades (more-or-less annually). There is some >> proprietary information for each customer, which the user would not want >> exposed in some accidental manner. >> > >> > There's some pressure from competitors to offer (as some of them do) a >> cloud-based solution, where we could be more flexible in terms of how we >> priced things -- subscriptions for various lengths of time, etc. The >> revenue might be more sustainable. >> > >> > I looked for earlier posts on cloud migration but wanted to ask for >> current ideas. The last thing I saw related to spinning up individual >> instances of 4D for each user, which sounds fairly expensive in terms of 4D >> licenses. Also, right now there is no web interface in the product. >> > >> > Any recommendations for a strategy which has worked? Should I rewrite >> the whole thing in some web-native language and then host on Heroku or >> similar? Would I have difficulty replicating the interface? Am I looking at >> another two years - or longer? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Don >> > >> > ** >> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> > FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >> > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> > ** >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): 4D db -> SAAS
Hi Chuck, I understand that part. Right now there are 200 customers, and we would like maybe 5x that many. Does the 4D Server approach work with that number of users? Wouldn't I need to write a web interface, and would that take as much time as rewriting in some other language? Also, what about multiple instances to handle network outages in some regions, etc.? Thanks for the quick response, Don >You could turn into server version by adding customer field to each >table and after every query query for that customer. It would entail. A >customer table Witt user name customer and field for related queries > >Regards >Chuck > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists. >4d.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I have a single-user, non-web-based 4D product in a specific area of >chemicals regulatory compliance. It has taken me about two years to >develop the application. With the 4D solution, we are charging for a one- >time purchase and then for upgrades (more-or-less annually). There is >some proprietary information for each customer, which the user would not >want exposed in some accidental manner. >> >> There's some pressure from competitors to offer (as some of them do) a >cloud-based solution, where we could be more flexible in terms of how we >priced things -- subscriptions for various lengths of time, etc. The >revenue might be more sustainable. >> >> I looked for earlier posts on cloud migration but wanted to ask for >current ideas. The last thing I saw related to spinning up individual >instances of 4D for each user, which sounds fairly expensive in terms of >4D licenses. Also, right now there is no web interface in the product. >> >> Any recommendations for a strategy which has worked? Should I rewrite >the whole thing in some web-native language and then host on Heroku or >similar? Would I have difficulty replicating the interface? Am I looking >at another two years - or longer? >> >> Thanks, >> Don >> >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
4D db -> SAAS
Hi Folks, I have a single-user, non-web-based 4D product in a specific area of chemicals regulatory compliance. It has taken me about two years to develop the application. With the 4D solution, we are charging for a one-time purchase and then for upgrades (more-or-less annually). There is some proprietary information for each customer, which the user would not want exposed in some accidental manner. There's some pressure from competitors to offer (as some of them do) a cloud-based solution, where we could be more flexible in terms of how we priced things -- subscriptions for various lengths of time, etc. The revenue might be more sustainable. I looked for earlier posts on cloud migration but wanted to ask for current ideas. The last thing I saw related to spinning up individual instances of 4D for each user, which sounds fairly expensive in terms of 4D licenses. Also, right now there is no web interface in the product. Any recommendations for a strategy which has worked? Should I rewrite the whole thing in some web-native language and then host on Heroku or similar? Would I have difficulty replicating the interface? Am I looking at another two years - or longer? Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re(2): 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?
Hi Ingo,
The sample db generates a range-check error on startup (v16 R3 Windows, US),
and other errors after cancelling various menu actions: "improper file name
during export", "operation not compatible with the two arguments", "...is an
invalid name for a file", "boolean argument expected", etc.
The menus run together visually ("File Edit Display Insert..."), possibly due
to the font used for the English version(?) The menu drop-downs do not stop
displaying on a second click, which is the expected UI behavior. When I click
into a selection of text, the toolbar does not display the style of the
selection, but instead remains on the last menu item selected. I haven't found
where styles can be defined or modified. There do not appear to be options for
file types in the Import... and Export... menu items.
Regarding 4D Write Pro itself, the "4D_Write_Pro_v16.pdf" document lists a
minuscule selection of 23 available commands...compared to perhaps 100(?) in 4D
Write. And the document doesn't provide parameters or information on how to use
the commands. Surely I must be missing something, because there doesn't even
appear to be a way to procedurally insert text or define styles.
I admire the commitment of the DDD Group in beginning to address such an
obvious foible as the UI in the 4D Write Pro offering. It's a start - thank you!
But it shouldn't be left to the community to provide a usable interface for a
feature which has been touted for the past two years.
I don't want to receive scores of phone calls asking where the File menu is, or
how to export to Microsoft Word. So staying with the old plug-in is the only
option for now. I'll worry about customers with 64-bit OSs some time in the
future.
Thanks for your ideas and suggestions,
Don
>Hi,
>
>have a look at
4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?
Hello, I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface. Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write commands. When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a normal word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into some text to see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document and its margins. The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side, which consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The ruler is three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open and save options. Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I could create it myself. Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal interface for 4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some other use than its predecessor? Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: TEXT TO ARRAY won't break solid text
Hi Bernd, I got an email back from 4D support; the contact thinks that there is a bug in that command, and filed ACI0096891. But of course I don't know if they are going to fix it in v14. I'm waiting on hmplugins to send a license number for hmFree...would like to use the command that returns text length (I'm guessing it's in pixels). Thanks, Don >Don Lapin: > >> Does anyone know how to measure the size of an unbroken text string, >in a particular font, size, etc, such as -- >> >> But because TEXT TO ARRAY doesn't work on the codes, I get -- > > >I think this was one of the reasons I still use hmFree www.hmplugins.com/en/hmFree/Features-134.html> > >Greetings from Germany, >Bernd Fröhlich >** >4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html >Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
TEXT TO ARRAY won't break solid text
Does anyone know how to measure the size of an unbroken text string, in a particular font, size, etc, such as -- "P201+P373+P401+P502" In a 4D Write area with two tabs (v14 Windows), I would like to see -- P201 Item stored under refrigerated conditions P201+P373+P401+P502 Item stored in refrigerated, dried conditions, with like items. Use precautions when handling. Dispose of safely. P203 Item stored in dessicator But because TEXT TO ARRAY doesn't work on the codes, I get -- P201 Item stored under refrigerated conditions P201+P373+P401+P502 Item stored in refrigerated, dried conditions, with like items. Use precautions when handling. Dispose of safely. P203 Item stored in dessicator Thanks, Don ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
