Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

ACI0097097: On Drop is not fired during 'boot time'
...would it not be possible to do the same test in On Startup?

2017/07/24 2:21、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
As far as I know, there is no other way to tell what datafile was used to 
launch the app



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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

Hey guys 

I’m returning to this thread after a month or so because I had a discussion 
with 4D tech support.  Apparently there is a bug in On Drop, and it is not 
behaving as per the documentation.

Specifically, here are the steps to drive the bug:

- Create a new database.  I am using 4D v16 R2 (32-bit) for Mac OS X.  Put an 
ALERT statement in the On Startup method that says what datafile is open.  Also 
put an ALERT statement in the On Drop method that just says the On Drop event 
has been triggered.
- Compile and build the merged app
- Launch the merged app once and create a datafile (let's call it "Test 
1.4DD").  Quit.
- Launch the merged app again and create another datafile (let's call it "Test 
2.4DD").  Quit.
- Drag "Test 1.4DD" on to the merged app's icon.
- The app launches
- The ALERT in On Startup shows that "Test 2.4DD" has been opened, not "Test 
1.4DD".  This is the problem.  "Test 1.4DD" should have been opened.

If the On Drop event worked the way it was supposed to (i.e. get triggered 
during boot time, when On Startup gets triggered), then I could simply call 
OPEN DATA FILE with the dragged file path and relaunch.  But as of 4D v16 R2 
that does not happen.  This has been filed as bug ACI0097097.  As far as I 
know, there is no other way to tell what datafile was used to launch the app - 
the clipboard does not contain the file path, and there are no plugin calls 
available from 4D or third parties.

I suppose I could show a confirmation dialog to tell the user what file is 
open, but if I put up a confirmation dialog every time the user opens the app, 
then it becomes a nuisance and the user stops paying attention to it.  That’s 
when things get dangerous: the user could drag a new datafile to launch the 
app, and start working on it, only to realize later that she was working on the 
previously opened datafile.

Anyway, just thought I would let you all know.  Thanks

- Steve



> On Jun 30, 2017, at 5:31 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> quick correction
> 
> 2017/06/30 21:23、Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> 
> If ($path="@.4dd") | ($path="@.data")
> OPEN DATA FILE($path)
> $0:=-1
> End if
> 
> the application will restart the moment OPEN DATA FILE (or RESTART 4D) is 
> called, so the following line is not even evaluated.
> the assignment should rather be outside the "If/End if" to ignore all drops 
> other than a data file. (or possibly a 4DLink file)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

quick correction

2017/06/30 21:23、Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：

If ($path="@.4dd") | ($path="@.data")
OPEN DATA FILE($path)
$0:=-1
End if

the application will restart the moment OPEN DATA FILE (or RESTART 4D) is 
called, so the following line is not even evaluated.
the assignment should rather be outside the "If/End if" to ignore all drops 
other than a data file. (or possibly a 4DLink file)




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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

you are over thinking it.

just put something like

C_LONGINT($0)

$path:=Get file from pasteboard(1)

If ($path="@.4dd") | ($path="@.data")
OPEN DATA FILE($path)
$0:=-1
End if

> 2017/06/30 16:02、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>
> When I add $0:=-1 to the end of my On Drop method, the compiler gags.  It 
> says the parameter $0 has not been explicitly declared in the typing methods, 
> and I can’t add a parameter declaration in COMPILER_ALL_METHODS for On Drop 
> (I can’t find anything in the documentation that says I should return a value 
> from this method anyway).




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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

Yeah, I’ve been trying to figure out how to intercept that call.  Maybe from a 
plugin during initialization?

As you suggested, I have a splash screen that shows what datafile is being 
opened, along with “Open other” and “Create new” buttons.  But like you said, 
it is not an elegant solution.  Novice users don’t pay attention to what is 
shown in the splash screen - they just assume that the data file they 
double-clicked or dragged is the one that’s open.


> On Jun 29, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> Hint : I do not develop a VM app.
> 
> I think that you would have to find/intercept the OS level call to 4D 
> to determine the (data) file that was dragged onto your application. I 
> do not know how you would do that.
> 
> An annoying but possible solution:
> always when opening the database ask (in a confirmation dialog)
> "Do you want to continue to work with  
>   or 
> Open a different one?
>   
> 
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 13:57:32 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> Hi Chip 
>> 
>> Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately no luck.
>> 
>> When I launch my app by dragging a datafile on top of the app icon, 
>> in On Startup I call GET PASTEBOARD DATA and Get text from 
>> pasteboard, but both of those just return the last copied text from 
>> the previous app.  I also tried calling Get file from pasteboard, but 
>> it returns an empty string.
>> 
>> Any other ideas?  This has to be an issue for other people developing 
>> vertical market apps...
>> 
>> - S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chip Scheide 
>>> <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I do not know that this would work...
>>> but when you drag n drop a file form the finder the path is placed on 
>>> the clipboard.
>>> 
>>> maybe, during startup see if the clipboard contains a valid path, if so 
>>> then use Open Data file to open that file.
>>> Chip
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 12:23:42 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
 Hi Keisuke -
 
 Thanks for your response.  I have looked at that feature, and I can 
 see how it is useful for the first time my app is launched.  In fact, 
 I already built that mechanism into my app by setting the 
 DataFilePath key in the XML build file to a dummy datafile embedded 
 within the application package.  I think it does the same thing as 
 this new “Default Data” mechanism, no?  In any case, I don’t 
 understand how it solves the problem once my app has opened a valid 
 datafile, has quit, and is relaunched.
 
 I suppose I could blow away the lastDataFile.xml file each time I 
 quit my app, causing it to open the default data file upon next 
 launch.  But that does not solve my problem, which is that 4D still 
 does not know the user launched my app with a specific datafile in 
 mind (by either double clicking on the datafile or dragging the 
 datafile on top of my app icon).
 
 Am I still missing something?
 
 - Steve
 
 
> On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> you really need to use the "Default Data" mechanism
> 
> 
>>> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
> 
>> 2017/06/29 17:28、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> の
>> メール：
>> What are other people doing to work around this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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FAQ:  

Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> the primary file that 4D should open is always the structure file, not the 
> data file.

> 
> that said, if you insist on drag and drop of a data file (which is wrong),

Sorry Keisuke, I am really grateful for your help.  I am just struggling to 
understand what you mean.

In an app created with 4D Desktop, my understanding is that 4D and the 
structure file are merged together as one application.  At least that is how it 
appears to the user.  So I believe the user will naturally think of the .4DD 
file as a document to be opened by the application, and want to drag it on top 
of the application icon to launch it.

> you can use the On Drop database method.
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/On-Drop-Database-Method.300-3274338.en.html
> 
> and
> 
> $0:=-1
> 
> to filter the default behaviour, and use OPEN DATA FILE as you see fit.
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/OPEN-DATA-FILE.301-3274411.en.html
> 
> obviously "Prevent drop of data not coming from 4D" must not be set.
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Compatibility-page.300-3285389.en.html

This is a great tip, but I can’t seem to get it to work (in 4D v16 R2).  I made 
sure “Prevent drop of data not coming from 4D” was unchecked.  But how do I 
filter the default behavior?  When I add $0:=-1 to the end of my On Drop 
method, the compiler gags.  It says the parameter $0 has not been explicitly 
declared in the typing methods, and I can’t add a parameter declaration in 
COMPILER_ALL_METHODS for On Drop (I can’t find anything in the documentation 
that says I should return a value from this method anyway).

Also I don’t understand this paragraph in the documentation:

"When a drop occurs on the 4D application icon on the desktop, the On Drop 
database method is only called when the application is already launched, except 
in the case of applications merged with 4D Desktop. In this case, the database 
method is called even when the application is not launched." 

Does this mean that in the case of a merged app that is not running, On Drop is 
called before On Startup when you drag something on to the app's icon?  I can’t 
seem to get On Drop to trigger at all during app launch.

Again, I appreciate your help.  I’m sure I’m just being stupid with something 
that is straightforward.


> 
>> 2017/06/30 4:23、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> Am I still missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

the primary file that 4D should open is always the structure file, not the data 
file.

that said, if you insist on drag and drop of a data file (which is wrong),
you can use the On Drop database method.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/On-Drop-Database-Method.300-3274338.en.html

and

$0:=-1

to filter the default behaviour, and use OPEN DATA FILE as you see fit.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/OPEN-DATA-FILE.301-3274411.en.html

obviously "Prevent drop of data not coming from 4D" must not be set.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Compatibility-page.300-3285389.en.html

> 2017/06/30 4:23、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> Am I still missing something?




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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Hint : I do not develop a VM app.

I think that you would have to find/intercept the OS level call to 4D 
to determine the (data) file that was dragged onto your application. I 
do not know how you would do that.
 
An annoying but possible solution:
always when opening the database ask (in a confirmation dialog)
"Do you want to continue to work with  
   or 
Open a different one?
  

On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 13:57:32 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Hi Chip 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately no luck.
> 
> When I launch my app by dragging a datafile on top of the app icon, 
> in On Startup I call GET PASTEBOARD DATA and Get text from 
> pasteboard, but both of those just return the last copied text from 
> the previous app.  I also tried calling Get file from pasteboard, but 
> it returns an empty string.
> 
> Any other ideas?  This has to be an issue for other people developing 
> vertical market apps...
> 
> - S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chip Scheide 
>> <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I do not know that this would work...
>> but when you drag n drop a file form the finder the path is placed on 
>> the clipboard.
>> 
>> maybe, during startup see if the clipboard contains a valid path, if so 
>> then use Open Data file to open that file.
>> Chip
>> 
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 12:23:42 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
>>> Hi Keisuke -
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your response.  I have looked at that feature, and I can 
>>> see how it is useful for the first time my app is launched.  In fact, 
>>> I already built that mechanism into my app by setting the 
>>> DataFilePath key in the XML build file to a dummy datafile embedded 
>>> within the application package.  I think it does the same thing as 
>>> this new “Default Data” mechanism, no?  In any case, I don’t 
>>> understand how it solves the problem once my app has opened a valid 
>>> datafile, has quit, and is relaunched.
>>> 
>>> I suppose I could blow away the lastDataFile.xml file each time I 
>>> quit my app, causing it to open the default data file upon next 
>>> launch.  But that does not solve my problem, which is that 4D still 
>>> does not know the user launched my app with a specific datafile in 
>>> mind (by either double clicking on the datafile or dragging the 
>>> datafile on top of my app icon).
>>> 
>>> Am I still missing something?
>>> 
>>> - Steve
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
 <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
 
 you really need to use the "Default Data" mechanism
 
 
>> 
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
 
> 2017/06/29 17:28、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> の
> メール：
> What are other people doing to work around this?
 
 
 
 
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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

Hi Chip 

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately no luck.

When I launch my app by dragging a datafile on top of the app icon, in On 
Startup I call GET PASTEBOARD DATA and Get text from pasteboard, but both of 
those just return the last copied text from the previous app.  I also tried 
calling Get file from pasteboard, but it returns an empty string.

Any other ideas?  This has to be an issue for other people developing vertical 
market apps...

- S


> On Jun 29, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> I do not know that this would work...
> but when you drag n drop a file form the finder the path is placed on 
> the clipboard.
> 
> maybe, during startup see if the clipboard contains a valid path, if so 
> then use Open Data file to open that file.
> Chip
> 
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 12:23:42 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> Hi Keisuke -
>> 
>> Thanks for your response.  I have looked at that feature, and I can 
>> see how it is useful for the first time my app is launched.  In fact, 
>> I already built that mechanism into my app by setting the 
>> DataFilePath key in the XML build file to a dummy datafile embedded 
>> within the application package.  I think it does the same thing as 
>> this new “Default Data” mechanism, no?  In any case, I don’t 
>> understand how it solves the problem once my app has opened a valid 
>> datafile, has quit, and is relaunched.
>> 
>> I suppose I could blow away the lastDataFile.xml file each time I 
>> quit my app, causing it to open the default data file upon next 
>> launch.  But that does not solve my problem, which is that 4D still 
>> does not know the user launched my app with a specific datafile in 
>> mind (by either double clicking on the datafile or dragging the 
>> datafile on top of my app icon).
>> 
>> Am I still missing something?
>> 
>> - Steve
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> you really need to use the "Default Data" mechanism
>>> 
>>> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
>>> 
 2017/06/29 17:28、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> の
 メール：
 What are other people doing to work around this?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I do not know that this would work...
but when you drag n drop a file form the finder the path is placed on 
the clipboard.

maybe, during startup see if the clipboard contains a valid path, if so 
then use Open Data file to open that file.
Chip

On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 12:23:42 -0700, Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Hi Keisuke -
> 
> Thanks for your response.  I have looked at that feature, and I can 
> see how it is useful for the first time my app is launched.  In fact, 
> I already built that mechanism into my app by setting the 
> DataFilePath key in the XML build file to a dummy datafile embedded 
> within the application package.  I think it does the same thing as 
> this new “Default Data” mechanism, no?  In any case, I don’t 
> understand how it solves the problem once my app has opened a valid 
> datafile, has quit, and is relaunched.
> 
> I suppose I could blow away the lastDataFile.xml file each time I 
> quit my app, causing it to open the default data file upon next 
> launch.  But that does not solve my problem, which is that 4D still 
> does not know the user launched my app with a specific datafile in 
> mind (by either double clicking on the datafile or dragging the 
> datafile on top of my app icon).
> 
> Am I still missing something?
> 
> - Steve
> 
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> you really need to use the "Default Data" mechanism
>> 
>> 
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
>> 
>>> 2017/06/29 17:28、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> の
>>> メール：
>>> What are other people doing to work around this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> **
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Re: 4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

Hi Keisuke -

Thanks for your response.  I have looked at that feature, and I can see how it 
is useful for the first time my app is launched.  In fact, I already built that 
mechanism into my app by setting the DataFilePath key in the XML build file to 
a dummy datafile embedded within the application package.  I think it does the 
same thing as this new “Default Data” mechanism, no?  In any case, I don’t 
understand how it solves the problem once my app has opened a valid datafile, 
has quit, and is relaunched.

I suppose I could blow away the lastDataFile.xml file each time I quit my app, 
causing it to open the default data file upon next launch.  But that does not 
solve my problem, which is that 4D still does not know the user launched my app 
with a specific datafile in mind (by either double clicking on the datafile or 
dragging the datafile on top of my app icon).

Am I still missing something?

- Steve


> On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> you really need to use the "Default Data" mechanism
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
> 
>> 2017/06/29 17:28、Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> What are other people doing to work around this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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4Dv16 VM app still not playing nice with Finder

[Steve Slanec via 4D_Tech]

I have struggled for years to get my 4D vertical market app (i.e. built with 4D 
Volume Desktop) to behave correctly in the Mac OS Finder.

Specifically, my app misbehaves in several ways:
1. When a user double-clicks on a datafile to launch and open my app, the app 
does not open that file.  Instead, it opens the one that was opened last time.
2. If the user drags a datafile on to my app, same thing - the app does not 
open that file.  It opens the one that was opened last time.
3. When the user tries to create a new datafile, 4D directs the user to save 
inside the application package - definitely NOT where the datafile should be 
saved.  I know I can redirect to a safe location the first time my app is 
launched by using a default datafile, but I need this to happen every time the 
user wants to make a new datafile.

When 4D v16 came out with the “lastDataPath.xml” mechanism, I was hoping it 
would finally solve some of these problems, but no such luck.

What are other people doing to work around this?

Thanks for any insights

- Steve


Steve Slanec
Slanecon Digital, Inc.
www.slanecon.com 
415.479.6967


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