Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-17 Thread John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 2:25 PM, Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> If you want to build emails or edit different types of text files that are 
> kept server side, the Ace editor embedded in a web area is a better library 
> than Tiny MCE. They seem to be shooting for a web implementation of Sublime 
> Text. There are a ton of customizable features, and it’s nicely designed.

+1 for Ace, it is amazing what can be done in a web browser. I wrote a Postgres 
mode for it which makes it nice to work with Postgres from 4D. 

I looked into TinyMCE to replace 4D Write. There were some bugs I could not 
work around that made it rather ugly to do field references nicely. I ended up 
using Markdown in 4D styled text fields instead. Not as user friendly, seems to 
work well. It has other advantages in that a consistent style can be enforced 
across documents.

I also came across this today: ProseMirror, A toolkit for building rich-text 
editors on the web.

http://prosemirror.net

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-17 Thread Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech 
Hi,


If you want to build emails or edit different types of text files that are kept 
server side, the Ace editor embedded in a web area is a better library than 
Tiny MCE. They seem to be shooting for a web implementation of Sublime Text. 
There are a ton of customizable features, and it’s nicely designed.

One advantage is that it isn’t that hard to implement the Active4D coding 
theme, which effectively provides a nice syntax highlighting/tokenization of 4D 
commands, as well as javascript, HTML and just about any other language you’d 
want. 


https://ace.c9.io/ 




Tom DeMeo
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RE: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-17 Thread Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> doesn’t r4 have tables, ie columns?

Yes, it does -

Blog Title: 4D WRITE PRO SUPPORTS TABLES!
Blog URL: https://blog.4d.com/4d-write-pro-supports-tables/
Published: July 4, 2017

v16 R4 is available here:
http://www.4d.com/downloads/products.html

-Tim



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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-17 Thread Two Way Communications via 4D_Tech 
I agree.

I would like to use 4D Write Pro to send e-mail messages. Although this will 
work perfectly to draft an email message from scratch, it will become a problem 
when you build an actual e-mail client in 4D. I have done this to have a 
tighter integration of emails with the database.

The problem starts when I want to forward an incoming e-mail message or reply 
to one. In that case, I want to include the incoming e-mail message, as is done 
in off-the-shelf e-mail apps like Apple Mail or outlook.

4D Write Pro cannot deal with this because it doesn’t support full HTML, so the 
incoming e-mail message’s content cannot be included in the forwarded e-mail 
message.
(especially if the incoming e-mail is HTML, which most of them are nowadays)

So I am still using Tiny MCE, in a web area. That way I can include a complete 
incoming HTML message, complete with graphics and formatting. But it is a lot 
of work to build that, and customization is cumbersome.

Regards,


Rudy Mortier
Two Way Communications bvba 

> On 16 Oct 2017, at 09:28, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We use it but only for creating templates not as a real wp. It works but its
> a mess. The html is only usable with write pro so what is the point ? Would
> have been much better off integrating libreoffice open document format.
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Benedict, Tom via 4D_Tech 
There are lots of Javascript word processing libraries available. 
Database/application integration and programmability is key to 4DWrite's value. 
Has anyone tried using callbacks in a web area hosting a Javascript word 
processor to do mail merge? I haven't tried, so I don't know how feasible it is.

Tom Benedict
Optum. Inc

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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Spencer Hinsdale via 4D_Tech 

doesn’t r4 have tables, ie columns?

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We are creating a document-building system using WritePro. It creates
> data-based documents like catalogues, price lists, directories etc. -
> something that our software currently does by creating tagged files for
> importing into InDesign, QuarkXPress, or Word.
> 
> Currently there are two major features missing from WritePro that are
> holding us back:
> 
> - Columns
> - Creating stylesheets via code
> 
> The idea is that the user will be able to build the catalogue (or whatever)
> and then either open it in a WritePro area and review it, maybe tweak it a
> bit, and then print it or PDF it, or just go directly to PDF. We've got the
> bones of it working but have stopped development for the time being because
> of those two major shortcomings. I've submitted both as feature requests
> and hope they get implemented soon.
> 
> Pat
> 
> On 16 October 2017 at 22:56, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> From everything that I’ve read, High Sierra is the last version of OS X
>> that will support 32 bit apps.  This makes the 4D Write/4D View issue
>> imminent for me.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> David Conley
>> By The Book, Inc.
>> Office: 815-234-7530
>> Direct Line: 815-406-5502
>> Fax: 815-234-7532
>> http://www.bythebook.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Anybody heard comments from Apple or Microsoft as to when they will kill
>> support for 32bit applications?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread John Baughman via 4D_Tech 
Tim… +1 for everything you said.


> The current environment will allow 4D Write plugin and 4D Write Pro to 
> coexist. You can migrate slowly and as needed. 


What I have done is add a page to their correspondence form where I can 
experiment with 4D Write Pro. A radio button, 4D Write/4D Write Pro, allows one 
to switch between the 2. For now this radio button is invisible when the 
database is running client/server so that my end users cannot play yet. When I 
have something that they can use I will make the button visible for them.

John



John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech 
We are creating a document-building system using WritePro. It creates
data-based documents like catalogues, price lists, directories etc. -
something that our software currently does by creating tagged files for
importing into InDesign, QuarkXPress, or Word.

Currently there are two major features missing from WritePro that are
holding us back:

- Columns
- Creating stylesheets via code

The idea is that the user will be able to build the catalogue (or whatever)
and then either open it in a WritePro area and review it, maybe tweak it a
bit, and then print it or PDF it, or just go directly to PDF. We've got the
bones of it working but have stopped development for the time being because
of those two major shortcomings. I've submitted both as feature requests
and hope they get implemented soon.

Pat

On 16 October 2017 at 22:56, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> From everything that I’ve read, High Sierra is the last version of OS X
> that will support 32 bit apps.  This makes the 4D Write/4D View issue
> imminent for me.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David Conley
> By The Book, Inc.
> Office: 815-234-7530
> Direct Line: 815-406-5502
> Fax: 815-234-7532
> http://www.bythebook.com
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Anybody heard comments from Apple or Microsoft as to when they will kill
> support for 32bit applications?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com)
> unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.
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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread BTB-David via 4D_Tech 
From everything that I’ve read, High Sierra is the last version of OS X that 
will support 32 bit apps.  This makes the 4D Write/4D View issue imminent for 
me.

Thanks!

David Conley
By The Book, Inc.
Office: 815-234-7530
Direct Line: 815-406-5502
Fax: 815-234-7532
http://www.bythebook.com




> 
> Anybody heard comments from Apple or Microsoft as to when they will kill 
> support for 32bit applications?
> 








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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech 
On Oct 16, 2017, at 2:00 PM, John Baughman wrote:

> Thanks Jim. I will take a look at the component. It looks interesting.
> 
> I was aware if the blog entry, but my point in that regard is why. It’s great 
> that the developer can create their own user interface, but shouldn’t 4D 
> Write Pro have a built in user interface? At least that is what I expected. 
> Will it have an interface in the future? Perhaps they are waiting until they 
> get the feature set nailed down before implementing one. 

I’m guessing the same. They have no idea exactly what 4D Write Pro will finally 
turn out to be. So better to not have a “hard coded” UI that needs to be 
tweaked all the time. Leave it in the 4D language on a form. Then the 
programmers, who are probably not the best at UI, don’t have any part of it. 

But the upside is that they MUST provide commands and a way to build our own 
UI. I’m sure they will provide one as a component like they did with SVG and 
the “Progress” component. Then we can take that and use it as is, or customize 
it for our own purposes. I think this is the right decision. Don’t lock the UI 
down, like they did with 4D Write. Let it be totally developer customizable. 
But of course, provide a basic UI that developers can take advantage of without 
writing once from scratch. 

> One of the main issues I am having with it is how it inserts images. Besides 
> the background sizing issue I previously mentioned, there is no way to place 
> an image behind the text as you could in 4D write. The only choice for this 
> is as a background which places the image either full screen, pinned, or 
> mosaic. I cannot put it behind the text and move it around to a desired 
> position behind the text. For the client I want to upgrade to 4D Write Pro, 
> this is a show stopper.

This is a know feature that they have not implemented. No word if they ever 
will. But I do remember at a 4D Summit when they first started showing 4D Write 
Pro they say “we will provide ALL features of current 4D Write Plugin and 
complete support for upgrading old 4D Write documents to the new format.” They 
said that. I heard them say that. 

I also need the feature in my client applications that use 4D Write. Anybody 
ever heard of “watermarking”? So if they never provide this, I’ll never 
upgrade. 

> In it’s current state it looks like I am forced to stick with 4D Write. 

I think that is what most 4D Write developers will end up doing. For one thing, 
you have to rewrite ALL your existing 4D Write code. Nothing can be reused. So 
that can be a real problem if you have code that builds complex documents. 

I have clients that make extensive use of 4D Write. I’ve written probably 1,000 
lines of code in several dozen methods that build 4D Write documents and do 
things to existing documents. The client has already paid for this. It works 
great. They love it. Now I tell them, you have to pay for that all over again? 
Gonna be a hard sell, I think. 

The current environment will allow 4D Write plugin and 4D Write Pro to coexist. 
You can migrate slowly and as needed. But if you want to build a 64bit version 
of your app, then you have to use 4D Write Pro. 

It could come down to a time where the only thing holding you back from 
building a 64bit 4D Client version of your app is 4D Write plugin use. So as 
long as macOS and Windows continue to allow 32bit applications we will be OK. 
When that ends, then this will become super important. 

At that time we’ll have an excuse to tell our clients. We have to rewrite the 
4D Write code so we can run on version X.X of macOS or Windows. 

Anybody heard comments from Apple or Microsoft as to when they will kill 
support for 32bit applications?

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Jim Hays via 4D_Tech 
I agree - they should have a basic toolbar like every other word
processor.   It really can't be that much work for them.

> inserting images

PDFPrinter from node.de provides a "watermark" tool that lets you combine a
second PDF with your merged document.
We use it to make "letterhead" for our merged documents.  It can be used
with any print job, actually.
(This only works on Windows)

Jim


On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:58 PM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Thanks Jim. I will take a look at the component. It looks interesting.
>
> I was aware if the blog entry, but my point in that regard is why. It’s
> great that the developer can create their own user interface, but shouldn’t
> 4D Write Pro have a built in user interface? At least that is what I
> expected. Will it have an interface in the future? Perhaps they are waiting
> until they get the feature set nailed down before implementing one.
>
> One of the main issues I am having with it is how it inserts images.
> Besides the background sizing issue I previously mentioned, there is no way
> to place an image behind the text as you could in 4D write. The only choice
> for this is as a background which places the image either full screen,
> pinned, or mosaic. I cannot put it behind the text and move it around to a
> desired position behind the text. For the client I want to upgrade to 4D
> Write Pro, this is a show stopper.
>
> In it’s current state it looks like I am forced to stick with 4D Write.
>
> John
>
> > On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:23 AM, Jim Hays via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > You could try this component, or the 4D blog entry:
> >
> > http://.mettre.de/wp/the-real-estate-blues/#english
> >
> > http://blog.4d.com/create-your-own-interface-for-4d-write-pro/
> >
> >
> > We will be digging into 4D Write Pro soon - our app is dependent on the
> old
> > 4D Write now.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> >> We use it but only for creating templates not as a real wp. It works but
> >> its
> >> a mess. The html is only usable with write pro so what is the point ?
> Would
> >> have been much better off integrating libreoffice open document format.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
> >> **
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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread John Baughman via 4D_Tech 
Thanks Jim. I will take a look at the component. It looks interesting.

I was aware if the blog entry, but my point in that regard is why. It’s great 
that the developer can create their own user interface, but shouldn’t 4D Write 
Pro have a built in user interface? At least that is what I expected. Will it 
have an interface in the future? Perhaps they are waiting until they get the 
feature set nailed down before implementing one. 

One of the main issues I am having with it is how it inserts images. Besides 
the background sizing issue I previously mentioned, there is no way to place an 
image behind the text as you could in 4D write. The only choice for this is as 
a background which places the image either full screen, pinned, or mosaic. I 
cannot put it behind the text and move it around to a desired position behind 
the text. For the client I want to upgrade to 4D Write Pro, this is a show 
stopper.

In it’s current state it looks like I am forced to stick with 4D Write. 

John

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:23 AM, Jim Hays via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> You could try this component, or the 4D blog entry:
> 
> http://.mettre.de/wp/the-real-estate-blues/#english
> 
> http://blog.4d.com/create-your-own-interface-for-4d-write-pro/
> 
> 
> We will be digging into 4D Write Pro soon - our app is dependent on the old
> 4D Write now.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> We use it but only for creating templates not as a real wp. It works but
>> its
>> a mess. The html is only usable with write pro so what is the point ? Would
>> have been much better off integrating libreoffice open document format.
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
>> **
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Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Jim Hays via 4D_Tech 
You could try this component, or the 4D blog entry:

http://.mettre.de/wp/the-real-estate-blues/#english

http://blog.4d.com/create-your-own-interface-for-4d-write-pro/


We will be digging into 4D Write Pro soon - our app is dependent on the old
4D Write now.

Jim

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> We use it but only for creating templates not as a real wp. It works but
> its
> a mess. The html is only usable with write pro so what is the point ? Would
> have been much better off integrating libreoffice open document format.
> Paul
>
>
>
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Re: Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-16 Thread Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech 
We use it but only for creating templates not as a real wp. It works but its
a mess. The html is only usable with write pro so what is the point ? Would
have been much better off integrating libreoffice open document format.
Paul



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Anyone using 4D Write Pro with a semblance of success?

2017-10-15 Thread John Baughman via 4D_Tech 
I am trying to set an image to the background. No matter what I do the image 
vertical size depends on how many lines I have on the page. Using both the 
contextual menu and the widget, I have set the Horizontal and Vertical sizes in 
points. but if the number of lines is anything less than enough to reach the 
vertical size set for the background picture the picture shrinks to extend only 
to the last line.

I am finding the widget more than confusing and am about to dump it in favor of 
only using the  contextual menu which in itself is incomplete and less than 
intuitive.. 

Am I the only one that thinks 4D Write Pro is a step backwards from 4D Write. 
Maybe it is too early in it’s development to complain, but am I going to have 
to create an interface that is usable for the average end user. That is not my 
idea of a developer “tool”. 

Maybe I am expecting too much but I was expecting a plug and play word 
processor for 4D that was better than 4D Write. 

John

 
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