Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases - found some of them

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

It turns out you can still get the upgrade manuals for v14R and v15R here:

ftp://ftp-public.4d.fr/Documents/Products_Documentation/ 


But no such luck for v16R. For these, just bug fixes. Please 4D, give us real 
reference manuals for each version! Keep your blogs, there fine, but please 
don’t make them the  only way to get information. 



Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com


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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

Ad,

The blogs are fine and are helpful but they’re no substitute for a proper 
reference of changes for each version. It’s really important for us to be able 
to clearly and easily see which changes are in each R version, not just major 
versions. And you can’t do this from the blog. 

Jeremy pointed out that there’s a What’s New link on the Language reference 
page of the online docs and that’s great, but it’s not implemented very well. 
And I can’t download a PDF for reference later on. For example, where are the 
Upgrade References for the v15 R versions? It’s all combined into one doc and I 
don’t see anything that tells me which version a particular feature appeared in.

For example, changes to the Query Editor:

http://docs.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Query-editor.300-2005957.en.html

R2, R3, R4 or R5? It doesn’t say. And for v14 there’s no upgrade manual at all 
in the doc center, either for the regular line or the R releases. I happen to 
know that the ability to assign the id_added_by_converter field was added in 
v14R3 because I have the PDF upgrade manual for that but it’s no longer in the 
doc center.


Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com



> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:11:58 +
> From: Add Komoncharoensiri 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I can understand the confusion. The format on the documentation page is a bit 
> different these days. There are 2 sections you want to look for from the main 
> documentation page. Under Core Documentation section, you’ll find “4D v16 R4 
> – Upgrade” and “Deprecated and Removed Features” sections. These 2 sections 
> described the changes made in 4D products (both enhanced and removed).
> 
> In the “4D v16 R4 – Upgrade section, you can either click on the title or 
> “What’s new page” (direct link to the landing page for all new features for 
> the version). Please notice the Read documentation link at the bottom of each 
> feature. Next to it, there is a link to a blog post that offers a 
> downloadable example.
> 
> Obviously, this change will take some getting used to. But we do hope that 
> you will find it to be more beneficial in a long term.
> 
> Regards,
> Add Komoncharoensiri



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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

I couldn’t agree more. Each version needs it’s own document that lists it’s 
changes. I also agree about keeping an archive of documentation for each R 
release. There’s new stuff in each one, that’s the whole point, and an R 
release is no different than a major version release - once you get to v16R5 
that’a the last - the next one is v17.



Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com


> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017, at 2:00 PM, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 12:39:40 -0400
> From: bob.mil...@parker.com
> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> Subject: RE: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Yes, v16 brings a somewhat frustrating "new" approach to documentation. In 
> fact, I postponed looking at v16 until there were PDF docs, which were not 
> released until several _months_ after v16 came out (there were html docs, 
> but no PDF docs). 
> 
> I am also frustrated by how the documentation has been handled with the 
> R-releases; if you look at the website right now, there are pages (I won't 
> call it documentation) for "What's New" for both v16R5beta and v16r4, 
> which is great - but there's nothing on v16r3 and v16r2.  Why would I be 
> interested in those docs, since those features are included in r4? Because 
> the Upgrade manual is so useful to describe the incremental changes in 
> that release.  Without it, I have to really dig to find out what I might 
> have missed in r2, r3. 
> 
> Richard brings up another frustration: Starting with v16 r-releases, there 
> really have not been Upgrade manuals, there have been "What's New" pages, 
> and I agree - this is NOT documentation.  While one can jump into the 
> documentation guided by the "What's New" page, just try to find "What's 
> New" page for v16r2 and v16r3...they just aren't there anymore.
> 
> I respecfully request that when any version, R-release or not, is 
> released, that an Upgrade manual is released in tandem that describes each 
> new feature in detail -eg. "real" documentation" - and that these Upgrade 
> manuals remain posted in perpetuity just like they have been for pre-v16 
> versions.
> 
> My $.02 -
> 
> Bob Miller
> Chomerics, a division of Parker Hannifin Corporation



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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

Thanks, Jeremy, that’s a big help.

> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:20:56 -0400
> From: Jeremy French 
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> There is a link titled “What’s New”.
> 
> This link appears **only** when you view the Language Reference “Table of 
> Contents”.That’s the page that appears after choosing Language Reference for 
> a specific version of 4D.
> 
> Snapshot of Language Reference’s “Table of Contents"
> https://s1.postimg.org/6fjw2aafgf/p01_table_of_contents.png 
> 
> 
> Snapshot of “What’s New” link near end of “Table of Contents” page
> https://s1.postimg.org/33dxm2yfxr/p02_what_s_new.png 
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as you go to **any other page** in the Language Reference, the 
> “What’s New” link **disappears**. The link is also absent from the Language 
> Reference’s side bar listing themes/commands.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Jeremy French

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RE: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[David Eddy via 4D_Tech]

> From: Michael McCall  >
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com >
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I think the documentation is available if I understand your question.  I find 
> it for R4 at:
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16R4/index.en.html 
> 

There appears to be an understandable lag between documentation be posted as 
links & then eventually becoming downloadable PDFs.

So patience appears to be in order.  

Personally I much prefer the PDFs… and eventually they appear to catch up.

No idea if this is an official publishing policy, but I can certainly 
understand there being a lag.


David Eddy
Babson Park, MA

W: 781-455-0949

de...@davideddy.com

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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 6 oct. 2017 à 17:48, Michael McCall via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I think the documentation is available if I understand your question. I find 
> it for R4 at:

Michael, 
I think Richard complains about v16r2 and r3 tabs, they're gone from the main 
page. 
In v16, we have all "r" between v15 and v16 here:

It seems each time a new "r" is released, the previous "r" tab in the main page 
is erased. And there's no equivalent of the link above. 

Richard, 
in case you don't know it already, the "what's new" page may help:
• static

 ()
•  livedoc 

(note: livedoc shows more, but needs to be connected and is slower…)

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 




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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Add Komoncharoensiri via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

I can understand the confusion. The format on the documentation page is a bit 
different these days. There are 2 sections you want to look for from the main 
documentation page. Under Core Documentation section, you’ll find “4D v16 R4 – 
Upgrade” and “Deprecated and Removed Features” sections. These 2 sections 
described the changes made in 4D products (both enhanced and removed).

In the “4D v16 R4 – Upgrade section, you can either click on the title or 
“What’s new page” (direct link to the landing page for all new features for the 
version). Please notice the Read documentation link at the bottom of each 
feature. Next to it, there is a link to a blog post that offers a downloadable 
example.

Obviously, this change will take some getting used to. But we do hope that you 
will find it to be more beneficial in a long term.

Regards,
Add Komoncharoensiri






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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

I’m looking for the documentation of new features and other upgrade info. All 
they have in the doc center for this is a link to their blog which is not the 
same thing at all.

> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 15:48:23 +
> From: Michael McCall 
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I think the documentation is available if I understand your question.  I find 
> it for R4 at:
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16R4/index.en.html
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Mike

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RE: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[bob.miller--- via 4D_Tech]

Yes, v16 brings a somewhat frustrating "new" approach to documentation. In 
fact, I postponed looking at v16 until there were PDF docs, which were not 
released until several _months_ after v16 came out (there were html docs, 
but no PDF docs). 

I am also frustrated by how the documentation has been handled with the 
R-releases; if you look at the website right now, there are pages (I won't 
call it documentation) for "What's New" for both v16R5beta and v16r4, 
which is great - but there's nothing on v16r3 and v16r2.  Why would I be 
interested in those docs, since those features are included in r4? Because 
the Upgrade manual is so useful to describe the incremental changes in 
that release.  Without it, I have to really dig to find out what I might 
have missed in r2, r3. 

Richard brings up another frustration: Starting with v16 r-releases, there 
really have not been Upgrade manuals, there have been "What's New" pages, 
and I agree - this is NOT documentation.  While one can jump into the 
documentation guided by the "What's New" page, just try to find "What's 
New" page for v16r2 and v16r3...they just aren't there anymore.

I respecfully request that when any version, R-release or not, is 
released, that an Upgrade manual is released in tandem that describes each 
new feature in detail -eg. "real" documentation" - and that these Upgrade 
manuals remain posted in perpetuity just like they have been for pre-v16 
versions.

My $.02 -

Bob Miller
Chomerics, a division of Parker Hannifin Corporation



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Re: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Jeremy French via 4D_Tech]

Hi Richard,

There is a link titled “What’s New”.

This link appears **only** when you view the Language Reference “Table of 
Contents”.That’s the page that appears after choosing Language Reference for a 
specific version of 4D.

Snapshot of Language Reference’s “Table of Contents"
https://s1.postimg.org/6fjw2aafgf/p01_table_of_contents.png 


Snapshot of “What’s New” link near end of “Table of Contents” page
https://s1.postimg.org/33dxm2yfxr/p02_what_s_new.png 



As soon as you go to **any other page** in the Language Reference, the “What’s 
New” link **disappears**. The link is also absent from the Language Reference’s 
side bar listing themes/commands.


Hope this helps.

Jeremy French


> On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:40 AM, Richard Wright via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to search the doc center for new features in a particular 
> version?

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RE: What happened to 4D documentation in R releases?

[Michael McCall via 4D_Tech]

Hi Richard,

I think the documentation is available if I understand your question.  I find 
it for R4 at:

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16R4/index.en.html

Hope this helps.

Mike

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