Re: [9fans] fork of a fork of Inferno that runs on Mac OS amd64

[Joseph Stewart]

Good job friend. Thanks for doing this.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 9:26 AM leimy2k via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>
> https://github.com/Leimy/9ferno-leimy has the crawling phase of a port of 
> Inferno that will run on modern Mac OS.
>
> So far - no GUI as I wanted to just get it working to start, and I'm sharing 
> it in case folks want to help out.
>
> And I really mean that... I've done some things that I don't think are great, 
> like renaming the panic function to avoid a name collision with some system 
> headers.
>
> I based the work from the OpenBSD amd64 emu port here: 
> git://git.9front.org/plan9front/9ferno, and my intention is to get the 
> changes cleaned up, get the GUI working (maybe port over the drawterm stuff 
> from the 9front drawterm) etc.
>
> If you try to use it now, just know that backspace/delete will exit the emu, 
> and you'll want ctrl-h to backspace instead.
>
> I did very minimal testing but ndb/dnsquery was working.
>
> - Dave
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] 2c/2l make sense, but why 1c/1l?

[Joseph Stewart]

Cool. I had a talk with Bradley (and maybe you Charles) at some past
IW9P about mangling the 68k compilers to support Coldfire but I never
went forward with it. I had inherited supporting a device that was
barely running uCLinux that I REALLY wanted to run Inferno on...

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 3:27 PM Charles Forsyth
 wrote:
>
> I think they might have been there for some other reason and then was used 
> for Inferno, which they somewhat had going on a Palm Pilot in some form (not 
> necessarily as the native kernel).
> If I waded through a ton of archive material I could probably find the 
> latter, to see what it was, but I'm not sure it's really worthwhile now.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 8:16 PM Joseph Stewart  
> wrote:
>>
>> Charles could probably answer this better than me, but weren't the 68k
>> compilers made to support Inferno?
>> -joe
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:18 PM  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm wondering about the history of the 68000 compiler/tools.  Support for 
>> > the 68020 makes sense, it had an MMU, but 68000 did not.  And it had some 
>> > design flaws that prevented it from working correctly with the external 
>> > MMU, the 68451.  So why does/did Plan 9 have a 68000 compiler?  Did Plan 9 
>> > ever run on an MMU-less 68000?
>> >
>> > thx.
>> > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink
>
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] 2c/2l make sense, but why 1c/1l?

[Joseph Stewart]

Charles could probably answer this better than me, but weren't the 68k
compilers made to support Inferno?
-joe

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:18 PM  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering about the history of the 68000 compiler/tools.  Support for the 
> 68020 makes sense, it had an MMU, but 68000 did not.  And it had some design 
> flaws that prevented it from working correctly with the external MMU, the 
> 68451.  So why does/did Plan 9 have a 68000 compiler?  Did Plan 9 ever run on 
> an MMU-less 68000?
>
> thx.
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Joseph Stewart]

I would also like to support, so keep me posted on opportunities to support
and join the foundation. Cheers y’all!

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:19 AM Marshall Conover 
wrote:

> Same! Enjoyed helping out with iwp92020, happy to help further.
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 11:07 AM Steve Simon  wrote:
>
>> > How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?
>> 
>> I too am interested in supporting plan9 in any form I can.
>> 
>> -Steve
>
>
> --
> Have a good day,
>
> Marshall Conover
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Anyone have a Plan 9 4th Edition Manual Set...

[Joseph Stewart]

Still trying to track a set down. Any suggestions?
-joe

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 3:35 PM Joseph Stewart 
wrote:

> For sale? Preferably cheap to ship to the US?
>

[9fans] Anyone have a Plan 9 4th Edition Manual Set...

[Joseph Stewart]

For sale? Preferably cheap to ship to the US?

Re: [9fans] Understanding /dev/draw

[Joseph Stewart]

Skip/all: there's a lot I think about especially surrounding plan9 and
Inferno. Sadly little action results.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 2:52 PM Skip Tavakkolian 
wrote:

> Joseph, others, have you thought about Dis-to-wasm JIT?  I recall
> Charles/Vita Nuova doing a browser plugin a few years ago, but things could
> be a lot simpler now. HTML5 also has storage api's; a lot of local
> resources can be available via 9p/sytx (devdraw, fs, cons)
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM Joseph Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm greedily watching this space... if you need testers, please let me
>> know. I have an interest in how/if this could be applied to Inferno was
>> well.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:05 PM Chris McGee  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I managed to get it running after all of these years. In case anyone
>>> tries it again here's a few things that I had to do to get it to work on
>>> the latest 9front.
>>>
>>> * Copy the latin1.h header file from the bell labs distribution and copy
>>> it into /sys/src/9/port
>>> * Run ip/httpd/httpd -w /sys/web/9wd (this is where the installation
>>> copies the web app)
>>> * Patch /usr/web/9wd/js/draw/data.js by commenting out the "delete
>>> conn.imgs[id];" line
>>> * Future draw commands come in referring to the old image for some
>>> reason and the server doesn't handle it well
>>>
>>> Yes, when I coerce the websocket tool to launch rio instead of acme
>>> there's some oddness when I launch new graphical apps within rio from the
>>> windows, such as acme. They tend to think that they should occupy the
>>> entire screen. Also, be patient because it is quite slow for now.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if David is still active in this space?
>>>
>>> Erik, where can I learn more about the layers?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 2:08 PM erik quanstrom 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> this implementation is enough to run acme,but not a full p9 terminal.
>>>> you'll need layers for that.
>>>>
>>>

Re: [9fans] Understanding /dev/draw

[Joseph Stewart]

I'm greedily watching this space... if you need testers, please let me
know. I have an interest in how/if this could be applied to Inferno was
well.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:05 PM Chris McGee  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I managed to get it running after all of these years. In case anyone tries
> it again here's a few things that I had to do to get it to work on the
> latest 9front.
>
> * Copy the latin1.h header file from the bell labs distribution and copy
> it into /sys/src/9/port
> * Run ip/httpd/httpd -w /sys/web/9wd (this is where the installation
> copies the web app)
> * Patch /usr/web/9wd/js/draw/data.js by commenting out the "delete
> conn.imgs[id];" line
> * Future draw commands come in referring to the old image for some
> reason and the server doesn't handle it well
>
> Yes, when I coerce the websocket tool to launch rio instead of acme
> there's some oddness when I launch new graphical apps within rio from the
> windows, such as acme. They tend to think that they should occupy the
> entire screen. Also, be patient because it is quite slow for now.
>
> Does anyone know if David is still active in this space?
>
> Erik, where can I learn more about the layers?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 2:08 PM erik quanstrom 
> wrote:
>
>> this implementation is enough to run acme,but not a full p9 terminal.
>> you'll need layers for that.
>>
>

Re: [9fans] 9P or better file services for multiple platforms

[Joseph Stewart]

This thread got me searching and I found MJL's guide for running a plan9
network on a *nix system using u9fs.

Hope this helps:

https://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/plan9/plan9-obsd.html

I'm gonna tinker with this myself.

-joe

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 8:20 AM Lucio De Re  wrote:

> On 9/1/18, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> >
> > Trying it out, it fails to find "attach" and there is no clue where
> > that should come from. It did strike me as complex, but if it serves
> > an NFS filesystem, that is probably adequate.
> >
> > I'll wait to pass judgement for after I have it actually serving
> > anything at all.
> >
> I have made some progress, /tmp/9/ (the missing link, it seems) and
> /mnt/ now look the same, so presumably something is going on. Maybe
> the overengineering isn't too top-heavy, I need to check.
>
> Lucio.
>
>

Re: [9fans] software archaeology

[Joseph Stewart]

If a 3-1/2" USB floppy drive would make this easier, I have one sitting
unused in a box and will gladly send to you on my own dime without any
strings attached.
-joe

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 12:20 AM, Steve Simon  wrote:

> hi,
>
> i have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed floppies, a bigger problem will be to find a
> floppy drive...
>
> i will try and generate some images.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2018, at 04:24, Benjamin Huntsman  edu> wrote:
>
> Bizarre and random question, but anyone still have any of the original 3rd
> Edition floppy images around?
>
>
> Also, anyone remember, did the web-based floppy builder from back in the
> day actually do anything other than tweak the plan9.ini?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] (no subject)

[Joseph Stewart]

Someone (not me) should make a 9p to S3 service and put all the goodies
there.
-joe

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Steve Simon  wrote:

> I found the old addresses here:
>
> https://dnshistory.org
>
> plan9.bell-labs.com was 204.178.31.16
> and sources.cs.bell-labs.com was 204.178.31.32
>
> Both gone too, its not just DNS.
>
> I think it has fallen off its perch,
> it is are pine-ing for the fjords,
> it is an ex OS research group.
>
> -Steve
>
>

Re: [9fans] Discord community for Plan 9

[Joseph Stewart]

;-) no promises from me.

As a matter of fact, I proposed using Slack for the Inferno community but
got even less traffic there than from IRC..., so I'm skeptical that Discord
will do any better for plan9. As they say though, you miss 100% of the
shots you don't take.

There's nothing wrong with IRC, I just wish there were a searchable log of
the traffic since I don't personally have a long-running session.

And maybe on that point, perhaps mailing lists are the right choice.

Take care!
-joe

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 2:20 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > negativity probably won't build a community either. let the results speak
> > for the actions, not your biases.
>
> i'll just imagine an alternative universe in which your promise of
> future actions affects reality.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Discord community for Plan 9

[Joseph Stewart]

negativity probably won't build a community either. let the results speak
for the actions, not your biases.

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:11 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> a community is made of people, not some stupid computer protocol.
>
>

Re: [9fans] IWP9

[Joseph Stewart]

Would it be possible to have a virtual workshop?

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Stanley Lieber  wrote:

> michaelian ennis  wrote:
>
> >I just realized that the next would be the 9th International Workshop
> >on
> >Plan 9.  I wonder where it will be.
> >
> >Ian
>
> outer space
>
>

Re: [9fans] Any demand for a supported Windows version of p9port?

[Joseph Stewart]

Which version of MS Visual Studio would you use?

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Winston Kodogo  wrote:

> Hey Chris
>
> Cygwin is an option. Albeit one I wouldn’t use. The guys who did pf9 used
> mingw. Which I also wouldn’t use. I like MS Visual Studio with access to
> the native libraries on the platform of my choice - so colour me bigoted.
>
> I was kind of wondering if there was an option for people who like
> Microsoft development tools to build Plan9 tools, which are admittedly a
> minority taste in the Windows world, without spending several weeks
> installing 3rd party tools and then being told how stupid they are.
> > On 28/07/2016, at 1:27 PM, Chris McGee  wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking of using Cygwin to see would be capable of compiling p9p.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >> On Jul 27, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Andrew Simmons  wrote:
> >>
> >> What the subject line says.
> >>
> >> This is not remotely intended to disrespect Sean Quinlan’s 9pm, or the
> guys who did pf9. I’m just asking because there are still chunks of p9p
> that I’d like to have under Windows. Some of the chunks I want (mostly the
> command line utilities, also sam, not so much acme) I’ve managed to build
> under Microsoft Visual Studio (note to self - wash mouth out and learn to
> eschew IDEs and love mk ((also, sub-note to self, don’t use syntax
> highlighting)))
> >>
> >> But, and this is a large but, there are parts of p9port that seem to be
> dependent on the Unix world - unix pipes for one, the stuff about sigjmp
> for another.
> >>
> >> So, what the subject line says, but also - how much of the
> Unix-specific stuff in the current p9p is essential to a port to Windows?
> >>
> >> Go in peace
> >> James V Choate XXXVI
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Pi updates

[Joseph Stewart]

Thanks for posting your slides and other work Brian.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Brian L. Stuart 
wrote:

> On Wed, 12/30/15, Skip Tavakkolian <9...@9netics.com> wrote:
> > > - Enhancements for I2C and SPI
> >
> > is there an updated devrtc3231.c, or a conventional user space
> > fs, that uses the new i2c?
>
> Yes, there's a devi2c userland interface ported over from Inferno.
> That's what's being used to drive the robot in the video clip.
>
> BLS
>
>

Re: [9fans] off topic - a good Git reference

[Joseph Stewart]

Here's git "rewritten" in Javascript:

http://gitlet.maryrosecook.com/

-joe


On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 4:57 AM, Aram Hăvărneanu  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:32 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is the git protocol really so huge that a native implementation
> > wouldn't be feasible?
>
> The git protocol and file format is very simple. I'm sure it's easier
> to write something from scratch than port git.
>
> --
> Aram Hăvărneanu
>
>

Re: [9fans] Small Plan 9 Platforms

[Joseph Stewart]

Brian, does your uni let you publish your curriculum or course notes? Is
this something you've ever considered?
-joe

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Brian L. Stuart blstu...@bellsouth.net
wrote:

  I have tried to email BLS but fear I am being spam filtered... you there?

 I did get one message from you, and replied earlier today.  Hopefully
 it got through.

 A little more update on recent pi playing.  I've been working on a
 little toy the last few days, namely one of those small SPI driven
 LCD panels:

 http://www.adafruit.com/products/2441

 As of this evening, I've gotten it sort of running alongside the
 HDMI display showing the upper left corner.  Here are a few
 pics of it in operation:

 The Pi with the display connected to a keyboard and mouse:

 http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/9pitft1-s.jpg

 and a couple of pics of the display showing acme running:

 http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/9pitft2-s.jpg
 http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/9pitft3-s.jpg

 It's a long way from being usable though.  The fundamental issue
 is that there appears to be a very deeply embedded assumption
 that a screen must be memory mapped.  I tried hooking into
 the hwdraw() routine in screen.c, but it seems that not every
 change to the screen memory space gets reflected in a call
 to hwdraw().  For the pics, I've got a version that periodically
 copies the whole of the appropriate area of the Memimage
 to the LCD panel over the SPI port.  Obviously, that's too slow
 and too resource-hungry to be practical.  Hopefully, I'm missing
 something and there's an elegant way to graft a non-memory
 mapped display into the devdraw/memdraw/screen infrastructure.

 BLS

Re: [9fans] Small Plan 9 Platforms

[Joseph Stewart]

Brian, does your uni let you publish your curriculum or course notes? Is
this something you've ever considered?
-joe

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Brian L. Stuart blstu...@bellsouth.net
wrote:

 I'm teaching a special topics course this fall I'm
 calling Computing in the Small.  Right now, I'm
 leaning toward conducting it on a platform that
 runs Plan 9.  I'm looking for something based on
 ARM or MIPS and that has some useful connection
 to the external world in the form of GPIOs.  SPI,
 I2C, and analog I/O would be nice to have too.
 Obviously, the Raspberry Pi is a candidate.  What
 are some others?  I've seen some code in the
 source tree for the BBB.  Has anyone tried it out
 to see what is and isn't there?  How about the
 Banana Pi?  The SATA port on it is quite appealing.
 Some of the other options I've been looking at
 include the VIA APC Rock and Paper, the Phytec
 Cosmic, the CubieBoard, the Odroid, the Riotboard,
 and the Wandboard.  Has anyone done anything
 on porting Plan 9 to any of them?  Are there others
 I'm missing that would be good targets for such a class?

 Thanks in advance,
 BLS

Re: [9fans] rsc's libtask on embedded

[Joseph Stewart]

I really like rsc's libtask and have managed to hide it in a few products.

As for your question: What architecture? Any runtime available?

Personally, I've used libtask on ARM/x86 under Linux/OSX... hardly bare
metal though.

The current implementation depends mostly on the ucontext API + berkeley
sockets for net stuff.

There's another project called http://libmill.org/ that is (was?) based on
setjmp/etc that might be easier to port.

Do keep me posted on your travels... I'm interested in this kind of stuff
too.

...or maybe we should just all help Charles updating/minimizing Inferno...

-joe

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:

 Anyone stripped rsc's libtask for use on a bare metal embedded system,
 I'am about to do it but if somone already has I could steal it.

 -Steve

Re: [9fans] rsc's libtask on embedded

[Joseph Stewart]

David, it's good to hear you're keeping libtask updated... I'll check it
out for sure!

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:09 AM, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Russ implemented his own setmcontext and getmcontext functions
 to work on systems that doesn't properly support ucontext.
 So I don't think you really need ucontext support in your libc.

 By the way, I maintain an updated version of libtask:

 https://github.com/0intro/libtask

 I've used it on quite a few places over the years,
 but I only on POSIX systems so far.

 --
 David du Colombier

Re: [9fans] rsc's libtask on embedded

[Joseph Stewart]

BTW, somewhere I wired in TADNS (http://adns.sourceforge.net/) so
libtask's network lookups didn't block.

Let me know if you have any interest in me cleaning it up for use.

-joe

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:09 AM, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Russ implemented his own setmcontext and getmcontext functions
 to work on systems that doesn't properly support ucontext.
 So I don't think you really need ucontext support in your libc.

 By the way, I maintain an updated version of libtask:

 https://github.com/0intro/libtask

 I've used it on quite a few places over the years,
 but I only on POSIX systems so far.

 --
 David du Colombier

Re: [9fans] rsc's libtask on embedded

[Joseph Stewart]

One other thing that I've looked at but never used is Adam Dunkels'
protothreads (http://dunkels.com/adam/pt/) although you'd still need to
roll your own channel library.

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:

 The system I am trying to add libtask to has no runtime other than libc.

 Corrently it is an even based system that uses a min main loop and
 a twisty maze of nested state machines that all look the same.

 Hence my desire to add co-routines + channels (i.e. exactly what libtask
 is)
 to it. I have no need for the file or network modules but those are easily
 removed.

 I don't have the context calls but I do have setjmp/longjmp so that is
 what I
 am trying to use.

 I will shout if it works out.

 -Steve

Re: [9fans] two ethernet in a raspberry pi.

[Joseph Stewart]

Also, I'm not sure if the SPI but would compound the max routing speed or
not but I suspect it would.

Even with these limitations, it would probably be good for the p9 community
to have drivers for these kinds of devices.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote:

 It only has 10Base-T...

 On 7/4/15, michaelian ennis michaelian.en...@gmail.com wrote:
  I wonder, aloud, if an spi connected ethernet interface might be an
  acceptable solution:
 
  https://www.sparkfun.com/products/765
 
  ian
 

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 BOF at Usenix with a slight difference

[Joseph Stewart]

I can't make it, but I'd be most appreciative if someone who can attend
would record this talk Ron.

Either way, I'm excited to hear more!

-joe

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 11:54 AM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm giving a talk at Usenix in Santa Clara in 2 weeks on u-root, and I'll
 be setting up a Plan 9 BOF (assuming there is room) with a difference:
 we're going to demo the GPL'ed Plan 9 code base booting on a small amd64
 cluster (assuming it's working by then!). The system is built with gcc,
 although some of us are advocating moving to clang. A full build of all
 libraries, binaries, and kernels takes about 2-3 minutes. It's now possible
 to debug the kernel, including setting breakpoints and examining
 structures, with gdb when you are running under qemu. If you're at Usenix
 drop on by and see what you think.

 If you want to know more you can contact me off-list.

 Thanks

 Ron

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on SRX/VSX rides again

[Joseph Stewart]

Great to hear Brantley!

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Brantley Coile brantleyco...@me.com
wrote:

 I’m happy to report we are back in the storage business based on Plan 9.
 We acquired the rights to the SRX/VSX and HBA initiator drivers and will be
 selling, supporting and advancing the technology.  I had been working on a
 non-Plan 9 appliance platform to avoid any conflict with Coraid, but now
 that’s not a problem.  I’ll be integrating the new stuff I’ve been working
 on over the past several months into the Coraid products.  We’ll use The
 Brantley Coile Company to market the SRX and VSX as software, not
 hardware.  We’ll release the specs for buying your own SRX hardware.

 The SRX and VSX code will also be open sourced.

 It feels nice to have the technology back where it originated from.

 Brantley
 b...@etherdrive.com

Re: [9fans] github.com/9fans + plan9port on git

[Joseph Stewart]

(replying to myself... somehow I missed linuxemu... sorry for the noise
Russ)

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Bear with me as I dream about work someone smarter than me does :P

 Is there any prior art on using plan9 or Inferno as a hypervisor?

 I mention this because it would be very cool to have a minimized OS+app
 image (something like what this script generates for Docker :
 https://github.com/Playsoft/container_builder) that plan9/inferno was the
 welcomed Insect Overlord (*1) for. The idea would be off the shelf Linux
 apps would run inside the managed instance to export a 9p fs (in this case
 git + plan9fs glue).

 I honestly don't know if this is just a giant band-aid that enhancing
 APE would be a better effort for, but honestly, I'd rather just be able to
 do a apt-get install XYZ and then Docker-ize some random Linux app and do
 9p glue than putting the autoconf junk on plan9.

 Taking my dangerously small knowledge forward, maybe it would be possible
 to take the exokernel (*2) / Arrakis (*3) ideas into plan9 or Inferno?

 (*1
 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords)
 (*2 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/exo.html)
 (*3
 https://www.usenix.org/conference/osdi14/technical-sessions/presentation/peter
 )

 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 3:57 AM, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan 
 vu3...@gmail.com wrote:

 I see this gitfs implementation, last checkin was years ago.

 https://github.com/manzur/gitfs



 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Skip Tavakkolian
 skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:
  http://ipn.caerwyn.com/2008/03/lab-85-stowage.html
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 7:16 PM, minux minux...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
  On Nov 17, 2014 9:29 PM, Bakul Shah ba...@bitblocks.com wrote:
   I don't know about Go (the Go guys are probably already
   suffering from a massive VCS fatigue), but if you want to play
   with this idea, there is venti! Vac can take a previous score
   to do incremental archiving. If you add sepcial blocks that
   store two parent scores + some metadata, it can represent a
   merge point.  Mapping to a filesystem view would require some
   thought but I think most of the key pieces are already in
   place.
 
  basically, this is how git works.
 
  Anyway, mapping a git repository to venti on the fly seems like a fun
  project.
 
 



 --
   Ramakrishnan
   https://rkrishnan.org/

[9fans] acme inspired vi clone (warning: x11/unix)

[Joseph Stewart]

Didn't see this posted here... might be of interest to some of us with
un-re-trainable fingers.

http://c9x.me/edit/

-joe

Re: [9fans] Announcing The Virtual Plan 9 Server Cookbook

[Joseph Stewart]

I love the work David. Can I ask a naggy thing though... the
background/forground colors make it very hard to read for very long...
could you change them to boring old black-on-white? (or should I just
make a local edit with my fuddy-duddy preferences?)

Thanks again for the time and detail you've put into this!

-joe


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:55 AM, David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com wrote:

 On 14Aug28:1100+0100, Peter Hull wrote:

  On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:16 PM, David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com
 wrote:

   I really hope it is helpful to a lot of people as time
   goes by.

  Hi David,
  This is going to be a tremendously useful resource! I've not read it
  all yet but:
  1. Is there a reason for using Debian sid instead of current stable?
  2. Would it be possible to make the section titles/steps stand out a
  bit more from the rest of the text; it would help when scrolling up
  and down?
 
  Thanks,
  pete

 1. Explained at the beginning of Section 1, but the short answer
 is I tried stable first unsuccessfully (it is documented) and if
 you can get that working, that will become another recipe and
 you'll get the credit.

 2.  Would having the headers appear like the links be sufficient?
 Whatever, I'll make this a priority, probably this afternoon.

 Thanks for the feedback!
 --
 not cent from sell
 May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

 Dave_Craig__
 So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
  You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
  Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe.
 __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

Re: [9fans] I want manual of OS

[Joseph Stewart]

Wow Nicolas, that is beautiful work... did you make a hardcover?


On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Nicolas Bercher nberc...@yahoo.fr
 wrote:
  Since I like bookbinding I did one by my self:
  http://tinyurl.com/lb5jzt3
 

 This is awesome.

Re: [9fans] I want manual of OS

[Joseph Stewart]

Would a service like http://www.lulu.com/ work for this? I don't know what
their cut is.

-joe


On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 On 31 July 2014 15:59, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com wrote:

 The major benefit of the Vita Nuova manuals is the beautiful cover,
 but I believe their content weren't updated since the release of the
 fourth edition or so. A nice collector's item, anyway.


 Last time I diff'd the manuals things hadn't changed all that much
 (compared
 say to the Inferno ones which were hopelessly out of date), and
 it's good to browse a book, but dealing with the shipping differences was
 a pain with the other suppliers. Also, Google Checkout had this nice
 little micro-format
 system that was really worthwhile. Amazon Payments had one set of problems,
 and Paypal had another, so it didn't seem worthwhile. It wouldn't be
 outlandishly hard
 so if there really is some interest I might find time to do it.

Re: [9fans] I want manual of OS

[Joseph Stewart]

Charles / Vita Nuova might. I didn't want to assume anything.


On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Calvin Morrison mutanttur...@gmail.com
wrote:




 On 31 July 2014 11:22, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote:

 Would a service like http://www.lulu.com/ work for this? I don't know
 what their cut is


 lulu would be perfect for this, plus it's easy to format stuff to work
 with lulu. Who cares what the cut is?

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi Inferno OS Native beta1 release!

[Joseph Stewart]

Thanks yshurik! You're my hero!

Great platform for Inferno evangelism!

-joe


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev yshu...@lynxline.comwrote:

 Hi Plan9/Inferno folks!

 I am happy to announce the beta release of Inferno OS port to Raspberry Pi.
 Finally it is the state when wm/wm can be executed.
 There are some important points reached for this stage:
 1. Mouse driver
 2. Working wm/wm
 3. Default memory split 240/16
 4. A lot of small fixes and polishing
 5. By default (for easy access) whole / is shared at port 564

 So, if you had a temptation to to give a try to a native Inferno OS for
 experiments, it is now a simple way with cheap and easy-to-get raspberry
 pi.

 Download link: http://tor.lynxline.com/inferno-raspberry-pi-beta1.img.zip

 Repository: http://code.google.com/p/inferno-rpi/

 Announce: http://lynxline.com/inferno-raspberry-pi-image-beta1/

Re: [9fans] a research unix reader

[Joseph Stewart]

Many years ago (around 1991) one of my mentors who's passed away gave me a
many generations old-photocopy of a document with examples of Unix coding
(shared memory, pipes, etc).

It seemed to be part of a training guide from Bell labs. I no longer have a
copy of the document and remember far too little to do a Google search.

I had hopes the document posted here might be the same but it doesn't seem
to be.

Anyone here have a vague clue what document I may have been looking at?

I certainly don't need that document for any technical reason, but at least
would like to know who was responsible for it since it was such a pivotal
document in my career* that I'd like to send thanks where thanks is due.

(*that and the Unix 3B1 that a buddy rescued from the university dumpster
for me and some long forgotten soul who gave me a full disk and manual set
for the same machine).

blessings!
-joe


On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Nick Owens misch...@9.offblast.org wrote:

 On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 01:26:05PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
 
  http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/unix-reader/
 

 yes. the maintainer of cat-v.org was the 'friend' who requested the
 document. :-)

Re: [9fans] GSoC: ~2 days left to apply!

[Joseph Stewart]

Did the 2013 projects get put in a public place? I was especially
lustful of the dis in a browser and web-drawterm.

-joe

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
 Folks:
 If you're thinking about applying to GSoC, do it
 quick: students have just over two days to apply. The
 application period ends at 19:00 UTC this Friday. We're
 seeing some really excellent proposals.

 Prospective mentors, if you've not signed up in
 Melange yet, you should do so now.

 Anthony

Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013 dates set

[Joseph Stewart]

Cool. Hopefully I'll still be in Georgia by then!


On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 11:28 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

 31 Oct - 2 Nov 2013

 http://iwp9.org

 - erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013

[Joseph Stewart]

So I missed the news that iwp9 will be in Athens, GA next year?!?!


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

 i have these potential dates.  if anyone has known
 conflicts with any of these, please send me an email
 off list.  thanks!

 Potential dates for a Plan 9 conference in Athens 2013:

 Oct. 3-5 - away game
 Oct. 17-19 - away game
 Oct. 24-26 - no game
 Oct. 31-Nov. 2 - away game and students have Friday off

 thanks!

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Running PicoLisp in Acme

[Joseph Stewart]

I'm far from an expert here, but I believe the underlying model here is
that a line at a time in/out of the subordinate command (in this case
picolisp) is the smallest unit of exchange to Acme.

Tell me some details about the environment where you're running
picolisp/acme (OS/architecture/versions of picolisp and acme) and I can try
this out on my side.

-joe

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 9:09 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi lists,

 On Friday 28 of September 2012 13:28:57 you wrote:
   Acme does not emulate anything resembling ANSI terminal. As far as I
 know,
   it only treats TAB and LF characters in special way. In particular, no
   cursor addressing resembling anything of ANSI terminal.
 
  Yes, but this is on a level higher. The picolisp line editor avoids any
  dependence on terminal control sequences (termcap or terminfo), by
  relying solely on spaces and backspaces to format the line.


 I see now. I have similar annoyance with Git -- which uses ^H (or was it
 CR?)
 to over-write line of text when indicating pull progress (1% ^H^H2% ^H^H^3%
 etc.etc.).


  In any way, instead of completely disabling 'led', you might change the
  function 'chgLine' in lib/led.l, and replace ^H ((prin ^H) in
  three places) with some other character which is suitable for acme.


 I believe there's no direct replacement, but let's ask the nice folks on
 9fans@9fans.net -- I'm cross-posting this message.

 --
 dexen deVries

 [[[↓][→]]]

Re: [9fans] nice terminal...

[Joseph Stewart]

The whole Broadcom licensing thing is a major pain at my current job
(although my overlords probably have equally painful legal shackles).

Not being able to see data sheets is pretty lame.

-joe

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22/04/2012, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote:
  Sign me up as a reviewer for your next theatrical production.  A little
  radio, streaming audio, or even a youtube screening will suffice.
 
  On Apr 22, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
 
  I always hope to see things like this appearing as the McGuffin in
 films:
  The Broadcom Errata
  (``Look! I've decoded the cryptogram in the KR Code. It seems to give
  the
  location of a Broadcom data sheet.
  We thought they'd all been lost or destroyed!'' ``If it also has the
  errata, it would be priceless! That explains why they
  had to kill Fletcher to shut up his open source project.)

 I hope that 9fans will get the casting call.

Re: [9fans] inferno and ubuntu 11.10

[Joseph Stewart]

I'm running Inferno (latest hg from the google code site) on machines
running Ubuntu 10.04 (64-bit), 11.04 (64-bit), and 11.10 (32-bit) (sounds
crazy but I need various Linux versions to support crappy dev environments
sensitive to this kind of stuff).

I can share emus from each of these environments if you want to try them
out.

-joe

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:35 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote:

 I'm now trying octopus, and meet some inferno related
 problem.  So, I downloaded the 20100120 tarball from
 VitaNuova, and compiled it for my ubuntu 11.10.
 When I run it, it makes segmentation fault at getcallerpc().
 Anyone running inferno on Ubuntu 11.10?

 Kenji

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

[Joseph Stewart]

I've intended to see if I can glean any wisdom from the Android interface
to OpenGL but have had neither the time nor motivation.

Anyone here know if it's a model to learn from?

-joe

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Forsyth
charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote:

 OpenGL (within its scope) covers several platforms at once, and anyway has
 to be handled somehow.
 Early in Inferno's history, I looked at the then version OpenGL but since
 at
 the time it kept drawing state hidden (similar to PostScript), and largely
 global, and the
 designers hadn't discovered data structures yet, it wasn't clear whether
 one could do a pleasant interface to it. To judge from (say) the current
 Python interface,
 probably not. Still putrid, but there's apparently not a lot you can do.

 (OpenVG by contrast seemed much better done, but that's 2D.)

 On 19 April 2012 05:15, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote:

 better to go native drawing libraries with Cocoa or OpenGL.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[Joseph Stewart]

So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack
overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of decentralized
nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own.

Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing is
kinda what open source is all about.

I guess what I'm saying is could we do this on our own? Maybe not having
Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe not?

-j

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

 On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
  coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel bad.
  I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same
  players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO.
 

 thanks, ron.  that's reason enough to try again next year.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[Joseph Stewart]

I guess I didn't realize there was pay involved. How about a kick-starter
approach? Think it'd work?

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:20 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:

 I think being able to pay the students is what really makes GSoC work.
 It adds an additional dimension that makes it a lot harder to just
 say, Oh, I'm bored with this, I quit.

 John

 On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Stewart
 joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote:
  So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack
  overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of decentralized
  nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own.
 
  Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing
 is
  kinda what open source is all about.
 
  I guess what I'm saying is could we do this on our own? Maybe not
 having
  Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe
 not?
 
  -j
 
 
  On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net
  wrote:
 
  On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
   coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel bad.
   I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same
   players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO.
  
 
  thanks, ron.  that's reason enough to try again next year.
 
  - erik
 
 

Re: [9fans] Aki's drawterm-fb, THX/THNX img

[Joseph Stewart]

Charles/Santucco,

Are you open to this getting merged into the inferno-os repo on googlecode?

-joe

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:02 AM, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.comwrote:

  Can't inferno run on fb or how does hellaphone work?

 Yes, it can.

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.inferno.general/5342

 And that's not new :-)

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.inferno.general/2123

 --
 David du Colombier

Re: [9fans] Announcing Inferno for Android phones

[Joseph Stewart]

Reminds me of some Chinese PC's we evaluated many years ago. One model was
called My Personal Woody...

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are there some clues about what is needed in a compatible phone?
 Simply unlocked android or any other niggles? The phones available
 from China are usually based on a big seller (and come off the same
 hardware production line). One I have is based on the nokia E5 (and is
 called the Wank E5). If I hurry I can throw around a box of new phones
 at IWP9.

 brucee

 On 20 September 2011 03:29, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
  but showing that menu on the inferno side would be very neat.
 
  ron

 --
 Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Announcing Inferno for Android phones

[Joseph Stewart]

You guys rock!

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:23 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:

 We would like to announce the availability of Inferno for Android
 phones. Because our slogan is If it ain't broke, break it, we
 decided to replace the Java stack on Android phones with
 Inferno. We've dubbed it the Hellaphone--it was originally Hellphone,
 to keep with the Inferno theme, but then we realized we're in Northern
 California and the change was obvious.

 The Hellaphone runs Inferno directly on top of the basic Linux layer
 provided by Android. We do not even allow the Java system to
 start. Instead, emu draws directly to the Linux framebuffer (thanks,
 Andrey, for the initial code!) and treats the touchscreen like a
 one-button mouse. Because the Java environment doesn't start, it only
 takes about 10 seconds to go from power off to a fully-booted Inferno
 environment.

 As of today, we have Inferno running on the Nexus S and the Nook
 Color. It should also run on the Android emulator, but we haven't
 tested that in a long time. The cell radio is supported, at least on
 the Nexus S (the only actual phone we've had), so you can make phone
 calls, send texts, and use the data network.

 The Inferno window manager has been re-worked with cell phone use in
 mind. Windows are automatically sized to fill the whole screen. The
 menu has been moved to the top and the menu items have been made
 significantly larger. Physical buttons on the phone are now used to do
 many common tasks:

(these keys are for the Nexus S, different bindings are used for
 the Nook, which has different keys available)
* Back: Close the current window
* Menu: Toggle the onscreen keyboard
* Home: Minimize the current window
* Power: Turn off the screen
* Power+Volume Up: Open the screen brightness widget
* Power+Volume Down: Turn off the phone
* Power+Home: Restart Inferno

 Installation is reasonably simple. You'll need the Android SDK
 (http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html), with the platform-tools
 package installed for the adb and fastboot utilities. We also strongly
 recommend installing CyanogenMod on your phone before
 proceeding--that's what we use to test.

 First, make absolutely sure you have the adb and fastboot
 commands in your path--see the previous paragraph regarding the
 SDK and try running adb to be sure. Download the tarball from
 http://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/downloads/hellaphone.tgz and
 unpack it in your root. You should end up with a /data/inferno
 directory (we put it there because of the Inferno build
 process). Then, go to the /data/inferno/android directory and run
 the Reflash-Nexus-S.sh script (assuming you have a Nexus S. Run
 Reflash-Nook-Color.sh if you have a Nook). This will
 automatically set up the phone to boot into either Inferno or the
 regular Java environment--during bootup, the screen will go solid
 white; if you touch the screen at this point, it will boot into
 the regular Android environment, otherwise it will timeout and go
 to Inferno. However, at this point you're not yet ready to boot
 into Inferno, so reboot the phone and touch the screen to go into
 the regular Android UI. The final task is to run the command cd
 /data/inferno; ./parallel-push.sh. Reboot, let it boot into
 Inferno, and you're ready to go.

 You can also clone the repository
 (http://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/) and build it yourself, but this
 is a significant effort. I do not recommend it if you wish to simply
 try the system, but if you want to do development you should get the
 repository.

 Disclaimer: If you break your phone, it's not our fault. Don't email
 us, don't come knocking on our door, and don't call us--oh wait, you
 won't be able to do that anyway, your phone is broken!

 Credit where credit is due: Ron Minnich came up with the initial
 idea--we've been kicking the idea of a Plan 9/Inferno phone around for
 years. Our summer interns, Joel Armstrong and Joshua Landgraf, did the
 lion's share of the work of making Inferno into a usable cell phone
 OS--no small feat, considering that neither had any Limbo or Inferno
 experience before the start of the summer! They re-wrote the UI,
 puzzled out the undocumented cell radio interface, figured out audio,
 worked to make Inferno more portable across phones, and generally
 figured out how to make Inferno and the Android kernel coexist
 peacefully. Andy Jones, another intern, also did some very early work
 with Android that helped us figure out the Android init process and
 how to build for Android. I took care of getting Inferno running on
 the phone in the first place and have been adding things occasionally
 since then. We would also like to thank Andrey Mirtchovski for
 providing the OLPC framebuffer code (which ported to the Android
 phones relatively easily), and of course Charles Forsyth for keeping
 the Inferno torch lit all these years (and helping me figure out some
 puzzling problems throughout the summer)!

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Joseph Stewart]

Hey Ron/EBo,

Do y'all have any libixp examples you could share?

-j

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 6:12 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm still a big fan of libixp. It's written in a way that I feel is a
 good fit if you're used to Plan 9 C style. I've made a number of uses
 of it.

 ron

Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?

[Joseph Stewart]

(kinda off-topic)

Just saw this show up today... QEMU+Linux running under JavaScript on
Chrome/FireFox.

http://bellard.org/jslinux/

-joe

Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?

[Joseph Stewart]

(embarrassed) and didn't read the first post.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:

 On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Joseph Stewart
 joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote:
  (kinda off-topic)
  Just saw this show up today... QEMU+Linux running under JavaScript on
  Chrome/FireFox.
  http://bellard.org/jslinux/
  -joe

 It's not really off-topic, since that's the site that the OP's
 slashdot link was about :)


 John

Re: [9fans] Different results for the same rc script when using listen1

[Joseph Stewart]

Yeah, I agree... too much FB makes me want a like button on my mail
client!

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Skip Tavakkolian 
skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:

 where's the Like button on this thing?

 On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Bakul Shah ba...@bitblocks.com wrote:
 
 
 
  this ancient unix
  time to kill it dead and good
  linux is it. Yuck!
 
  Happy?
 

Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely

[Joseph Stewart]

 i take a different view of performance.

 performance is like scotch.  you always want better scotch,
 but you only upgrade if the stuff you're drinking is a problem.

 - erik

Awesome. That quote is going on my office door below the Tanenbaum
quote on bandwidth and station wagons!

Re: [9fans] Happy Birthday

[Joseph Stewart]

Happy birthday Ken!

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Michaelian Ennis 
michaelian.en...@gmail.com wrote:

 Today is Ken's birthday!  Happy Birthday Ken!

Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely

[Joseph Stewart]

Consider what `stalin' does in about 3300 lines of Scheme
 code. It translates R4RS scheme to C and takes a lot of time
 doing so but the code is generates is blazingly fast. The
 kind of globally optimized C code you or I wouldn't have the
 patience to write. Or the ability to keep all that context in
 one's head to do as good a job. Stalin compiles itself to
 over 660K lines of C code! Then you give this C code to gcc
 and it munches away for many minutes and finally dies on a
 2GB system! If gcc was capable of only doing peephole
 optimizing, it would've been able to generate code much more
 quickly and without need gigabytes of memory.


Ha! Just tried to compile Stalin on my 4G laptop... it quickly became a
laptop fryer... OUCH!

I might try 6c or 8c in a bit for comparison.

-joe

Re: [9fans] gotta luv google ads

[Joseph Stewart]

and stonez?

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:15 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

  does it support styx?

 in a way.  styx breakx bones.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Why not work for a company based on Plan 9?

[Joseph Stewart]

Dave,

The way I see this is two reasonable people working a misunderstanding out.
There are many contemporary examples of endless mud-slinging with no real
concern for solving problems or coming to a reasonable conclusion.

Regards,

-joe

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 1:38 PM, David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote:

 Brantley,

 I apologize for my confrontational attitude.  It's totally unnecessary, and
 I wish that I could take it all back.

 You certainly didn't deserve it, and the 9fans aren't deserving the noise
 I've caused by my stupid approach to this thread.

 Dave

 On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.comwrote:

 dave,

 no problem.  i didn't cut and paste the answer, but i'm very sorry that i
 gave that impression.  i'm a pretty easygoing guy, a fact that isn't obvious
 over an email list.  i wasn't irritated by the question at all.  the
 question was a very good one.

 the reason we can't do remote employees is that one of our objectives is
 that plan9ers have a positive cultural influence on the entire development
 group.  i feel such an influence requires daily interaction.  but we will
 keep you in mind as we grow.

 in all my interactions i try to emulate the gentlemanly ways of dennis
 ritchie.
 brantley

 On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:55 AM, David Leimbach wrote:

  Thank you for answering the question.  Let me explain my point of view
 on the exchange.
 
  I worked for a company in Birmingham AL for about 6 years from Seattle.
  I had Birmingham insurance, Birmingham HR people etc, but I was remote.  I
 thought perhaps it was not clear if one could be a satellite employee for
 one of those offices or not.
 
  I felt that when you basically cut and pasted your response to me, that
 you were irritated by my question and answering me in a rude way.  I was not
 trying to troll the thread, but now it may appear to be the opposite.
 
  I have a lot of respect for what you guys have done with Plan 9 and AOE,
 and think it's an interesting business, but suddenly I felt that perhaps I
 wouldn't have a compatible personality with the boss.
 
  Anyway, I'd like to reboot the discussion, but it's in the archives now
 :-).
 
  I do wish you, very sincerely, to have continued success with your
 business.
 
  Dave
 
  On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com
 wrote:
  i'm sorry.  those who are not in silicon valley or northeast georgia
 will have to relocate.
 
  On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:30 AM, David Leimbach wrote:
 
   That's actually not an answer but whatever... I guess I don't actually
 care.
  
   On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com
 wrote:
   the positions are in redwood city, ca and athens, ga.
  
   On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:17 AM, David Leimbach wrote:
  
Brantley,
   
I'm asking publicly because I'm betting it's a FAQ.  Do you consider
 remote employees as a possibility, or do you require relocation?
   
Dave
   
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Brantley Coile 
 brant...@coraid.com wrote:
hi guys,
   
as most on this list know, coraid makes storage devices that use
 plan 9 as the software platform.  we also use it as our primary development
 environment.  we still run a ken file server here.  plan 9 is fundamental to
 our vision.  coraid has become a hot silicon valley property and we are
 about to start another round of hiring developers.  i knew it would be a
 disservice to this mailing list if i didn't make an announcement here.
   
developers, qa, and support folks can work either in redwood city,
 ca or athens, ga.  there are the usual up and coming silicon valley startup
 stock options.  and in athens, you don't have to pay those silicon valley
 prices for housing and beer.  athens is very affordable on both these
 counts, especially the beer as anyone who attended the 2009 iwp9 will
 attest.
   
i hope we're creating a place that i would have wanted to work.
  it's not every place that you can work with plan 9, get paid for it and
 participate in a high potential start-up.
   
please send resume's to me.
   
brantley
   
   
   
  
  
  
 
 
 

Re: [9fans] random seattleisms

[Joseph Stewart]

if you have the time, make your way down to portland oregon and visit
powell's city of books (http://www.powells.com).

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

 this has no technical information in it but may be a laugh for the IWP9
 folk.

 1) i had lunch at pike's today - as you would - and i really wanted a
 menu to go - was willing to pay for it. the girlie said that the only
 way i could get one was to steal it. not a good challenge to throw at
 convict stock. unfortunately the hotel doesn't have a ledger/A3
 scanner. arrgh - the one armed bandit.

 2) try this for a challenge. i found a cool book store and bought 4
 items. $66.66 with tax - i can scan the receipt. try that without
 trying. styx lives on.

 brucee

Re: [9fans] some group photos

[Joseph Stewart]

Wish I was there guys! Have a great time.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote:
 thanks for the snap shots.  what a great venue.
 brantley

 On Oct 13, 2010, at 6:22 PM, John Floren wrote:

 They came out kind of fuzzy, I think it's because of the bright light
 from outside behind us.

 http://jfloren.net/IWP9group1.jpg
 http://jfloren.net/IWP9group2.jpg

Re: [9fans] some group photos

[Joseph Stewart]

Great! I'll need to start the whining, um I mean budget request with
my boss early to avoid the last minute rush.
-joe

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:18 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
 It was a great workshop. More than once I heard someone mention that
 it was the best IWP9 they'd attended. What was interesting was that
 I heard the exact same sentiment last year ... guess we get better by
 the year.

 And, I got to let the smoke out of an ethernet switch WITHOUT setting
 off any fire alarms! Who could ask for anything more?

 Don't know if everyone heard but next year it's Europe again.

 ron

[9fans] Any plan9'ers at ESC in San Jose this week?

[Joseph Stewart]

(ESC = Embedded Systems Conference... and apologies in advance for the
cross-posts you may see)

[9fans] libtask examples...

[Joseph Stewart]

Russ,

I've been messing with libtask for a while and have a simple example using
chanalt that others might benefit from.

I'd be happy to post this on the wiki section of your code.google.com page
if you can grant me wiki permissions.

Regards,

-joe

Re: [9fans] TeX: hurrah!

[Joseph Stewart]

Sorry to be a grouch, but can we change this thread to OO instead of the
advertised TeX:hurrah! thread?

I'm interested in the TeX news, but not so interested in the OO/language
debate that no doubt will go on for a while...

Thanks!

-joe

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Karljurgen Feuerherm kfeuerh...@wlu.cawrote:

  Ok--so it's agreed that it's not OO that's the problem, it's the users,
 then, who don't know which tool to use when. Not at all the same thing.

 And to be pedantic, since you give this example, the sun does revolve
 around the earth, so long as you choose the earth as your point of
 reference... Certain points of reference are to be preferred for certain
 things, as you said. So OO or not, as appropriate.

 K

  Patrick Kelly kameo76...@gmail.com 16/04/2010 1:55:50 pm 

 I was just speaking generally.
 One of my major programming languages is Ada, and I doubt anyone would say
 that isn't big on provability. I've used objects a couple times, in places
 where they do in fact help, but those cases are, in general, not read
 properly. Using an object in the wrong place, which is most places, does
 lead to worse code. For most people, using the wrong tool for the wrong job
 is foolish, but for OOP lovers...

 The question isn't how do you prove it does reduce static provability, but
 how do you prove it does not. I can cite mathematical proof that the sun
 revolves around the earth, but we all know that's not true. That being said,
 there are studies out there about using the wrong paradigm for the wrong
 job, objects do come up.

Re: [9fans] building the 9phone

[Joseph Stewart]

That's pretty neat. Thanks for the pointer.

-joe

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:30 AM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:

 For all of you who have not seen this:
 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7917

 The manual is here:
 http://www.gm862.com/en/products/gsm-gprs.php?p_id=12p_ac=showp=7

 You can build up a little phone with a gumstix and one of these. You
 can script with Python. Or you can use a beagleboard, and you have the
 option of plugging your phone into display/keyboard when you are home.
 It's the anti-iPhone, you own the whole thing, you can do what you
 want. Headphone/mic would not go via Plan 9, it is a direct connect.
 These really are little cell phones in a module.

 I worked with these several years ago at LANL. It was not so easy back
 then as the SIM support was not great in the US. I never got PPP
 working on it as you were supposed to be able to do.

 You have to be careful, too: I fried one, guess it was static
 sensitive? But note that they're even selling modules for use as
 controllers for your
 house!http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8700

 Just an interesting project for someone. I think it would be easier
 now, I even see SIMs for sale in airports.

 ron

Re: [9fans] parallels

[Joseph Stewart]

Just to clarify... Parallels 5 requires a Mac. There are howerver, older
versions for M$ and Linux as well as their Server Virtualization products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallels,_Inc.

-joe

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

  Just to confirm what Geoff said.
 
  Parallels 5 works like a charm with Plan 9.
  Also, it seems to have full ACPI support, not that this is
  important for Plan 9 yet.
 
  Thanks
 
  On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:53 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net
 wrote:
   I've heard nothing but bad things about VirtualBox. Mostly from Plan 9
   people(where the results have been uniformly bad), but also from folks
   trying to useother OSes. It seems the worst of the breed across the
 board.
  
   has anyone tried 9atom on virtualbox?  i think there's a good chance
   virtualbox has some of the same issues i had with the ich7r.

 parallels requires a mac.

 - erik

[9fans] Is this the same Russ Cox we know here?

[Joseph Stewart]

Hmmm... is this Limbo/Newsqueak/Alef inspired?

http://golang.org

-joe

Re: [9fans] go to this site

[Joseph Stewart]

Ron, I'm a noob and a naive.

Tell me what I'm missing here...

-joe

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:00 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
 nebula.nasa.gov

 and see what you see

 ron

Re: [9fans] IWP9 hack session

[Joseph Stewart]

I have some weird PPC-based IBM devices I'm willing to give away to those
inclined to hack on (hey, it's either this or the trash).
-joe

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen eri...@gmail.comwrote:

 Or we could just brick Gorka's powerbook again!

 -eric


 On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Gorka Guardiola pau...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:38 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
  oh yeah, I assume the first step to hacking these is cracking them open?
 
  Or is there a way via the usb port to get serial console (does not
  seem so from block diagram)
 
 
  Mechiel told me there was a way to get a serial out of the usb
 connector...
  Don't know anything more (we don´t have one as nemo stated)...
 
 
  --
  - curiosity sKilled the cat
 
 

Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS

[Joseph Stewart]

Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you
forever?
-joe

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com wrote:

 There's nothing wrong with being new.   There's nothing wrong with being
 polite either.

 Sent from my iPhone


 On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren slawmas...@gmail.com wrote:

  At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever
 doomed to get a Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing
 and watching movies and stuff? thread every couple weeks, because
 people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the
 Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans.


 John

 On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Güntherandr...@gmx.de wrote:

 there's a thing called mailing list archives.
 and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or
 something.
 what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it
 searches
 like the whole web. it's magic.

 On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote:

  Hi all,
 I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9
 on
 my Dell Inspiron laptop.
 I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it.
 Ideally, I would like to make it my everyday OS, to do all the nice
 stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like
 browsing
 the web, watching movies and so on...
 Is anyone using it for such things?
 Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)?
 Or a music/movie player?

 Thanks in advance,
 Lorenzo.







 --
 I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
 reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
 Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey. -- Ted Dziuba

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Joseph Stewart]

I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
nose laughing.

-joe

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Delldevon.od...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
 baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.

 But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
 that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
 anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
 on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

 --dho

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Joseph Stewart]

I think I'll start all of my work correspondence with this sentence. ;-).

-joe

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Joseph Stewartjoseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote:
 I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
 nose laughing.

 -joe

 On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Delldevon.od...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
 baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.

 But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
 that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
 anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
 on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

 --dho

Re: [9fans] IWP9 this year?

[Joseph Stewart]

As I live near Atlanta, I wouldn't mind the Athens venue. Since I'm
more-or-less local, I could pitch in to help with logistics.
-joe

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:45 AM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:

  What do people think about erik's timeframe versus potentially
  mid-January / early February / early March 2010?

 My 1¢ worth (the economy has devalued it from 2¢)
 is that the time doesn't matter so much for me, since
 it would probably be on my dime.  But Atlanta is a
 much more feasable trip for me as it's driving distance,
 and my daughter's college fund would much prefer
 that over flying.

 BLS