Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

Well, I tried those commands and it did me no justice. I don't know
how to change the driver you speak of so I'm thinking i'll have to
give up on getting native Plan9 onto this netbook.

I tried an experiment with both success and failure;
in my bios, I have an option to change sata controller mode from
achi to ide. I tried changing that and then the plan9 installer can
see my hard disk, however, the failure is that in that mode, I cannot
boot FreeBSD, it just freezes the system almost right away. Go figure :
( At least I have it working on my other system.

Do you know if Bell Labs is still developing Plan9? Will we ever see a
5th edition?

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

Hmm, might be slightly above my head (I don't know what a node is).
That aside, the boot loader fires up fine, and it makes it to what I
believe is near the end of the boot sequence in fact. ad0 is my hard
disk;
queuevonqu.com/bsderr.jpg

My pardons if that's hard to read. Those messages at the bottom, it
just loops those over and over, slowly.

Is this what happens if numbering has changed or is this something
else? If it looks exactly that way to you, perhaps you can tell me how
I might go about finding out the new numbers/locations when set up to
ide as opposed to ahci. Perhaps booting off the thumb image I used
to install FreeBSD in the first place? I do at least know how to edit
the fstab should I get that far.

Thank you.

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

Oops. My own trigger finger, sorry.

Yeah, the drive is just fine if set in the bios to ahci, but plan9
can't see it. If I set it to IDE, plan9 can see it but it gives BSD
the errors you see in the image. Weird.

On Feb 25, 7:28 am, quans...@quanstro.net (erik quanstrom) wrote:
 On Thu Feb 25 07:19:14 EST 2010, quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

  On Thu Feb 25 06:29:21 EST 2010, bitpusher2...@gmail.com wrote:
   Hmm, might be slightly above my head (I don't know what a node is).
   That aside, the boot loader fires up fine, and it makes it to what I
   believe is near the end of the boot sequence in fact. ad0 is my hard
   disk;
   queuevonqu.com/bsderr.jpg

  that's not plan 9, but it looks like a drive failure.

 too quick on the trigger finger.  i think i understand
 correctly that the same drive works fine if the southbridge
 is in ide mode.  in that case, i'm not sure what's going on.
 the drive is identifying correctly, but read/write commands
 fail.  if we assume that this kernel uses interrupts to identify
 the drive, then the problem isn't interrupts, it's that the
 read/write commands are failing.  that really does look
 like drive failure, and i'd be pretty surprised if the drive
 worked in ide mode.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

Sorry Erik, that particular message was intended for John.
I had mentioned that changing sata controller settings in my bios from
ahci to ide allowed plan9 to see my hard drive but killed FreeBSD. He
asked at what point in the boot sequence this was happening, so I
posted it to show him.

I can't get BSD to work if I set that to ide. Weird eh?

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

You just gave me an idea. Perhaps add a php or smf forum to the site?

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

I must not have made the last post correctly, so i'll try again :
( Sorry if this turns into a double post.
Anyway, these pics are the output sitting still after booting from
the usb stick image:
www.queuevonqu.com/9boot2.jpg
www.queuevonqu.com/9boot3.jpg

And this is booting from the usb-cdrom drive:
www.queuevonqu.com/9boot4.jpg

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

I can see the point you're trying to make. There's alot of flexibility
in what can be done with a website though. In short; anything. I think
it leaves for a more enjoyable experience for the user too. An easy
link to remember (whatever the site name will be), space to store
files, screenshots, etc.

And yes, if you read my story, there's no exaggeration. I want to do
this, and have the resources available. I'm not thinking of an
immaculate site that is the end all of user experience or learning
Plan9 by no means. Just something simple, easy to navigate, perhaps
even a pleasure to read. Might have to toss up good ol' propaganda
too, because who doesn't love Glenda?

My site has been up for quite a while, and I have no intentions of
taking it down anytime soon as it serves alot of purposes for me, so
if I indeed put up this site, it won't be going anywhere for a long
time, because other than a yearly $10, it won't cost me anything. I'd
just be using a little bit of the unlimited storage capacity. Eh? :)

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Very well, i'll drop the idea then. It's just a shame there's no easy
and direct way to find out how to do some of the stuff I mentioned in
the original post.

To Tim;
Why do you suppose I use a wysiwyg editor to begin with? I don't know
squat about writing webpages, also, I don't know how to set up or
configure a web server. My webspace is thru Yahoo's paid services, and
I chose them because they give you alot for cheap, and they are a no
nonsense provider. They don't interfere in anything I choose to do.

On top of that, knowing you have no idea who I am, I come from a
background of a non-IT, non college educated, self (and forum) taught
user. I've Slackware exclusively for just a snootch shy of a decade,
having recently switched to BSD. It is sufficient to say that whilst
i'm not a guru or master of the trade, I am very proficient in
userland things, like installing software, maintaining the system,
building kernels, etc. I have yet to figure out how to do the simple
things I mentioned above (what about accessing usb sticks, installing
3rd party software, etc). I can't find a simple straight do this to
do this type of document on many simple user functions. How can
someone who would give Plan9 a chance with an even lesser background
in unix like enviroments like myself figure these things out?

Praise be due to those who are more resourceful or generally smarter
in these matters than I, but being quite comfortable with CLI and not
being able to find a simple and straight way to do desktop/basic users
tasks was the motivation behind this whole idea.

I'm sorry my offer to help seems of no use.
Since it is my webspace, I may just do it anyway, presuming I learn
some of the things I need to. There may be other sites, a wiki, and
etc., but I see zero harm in trying to help others learn this system,
even if it be from my slow journey and blunders along the way.

Trust me, if I could afford the costs i'd have to pay my ISP, had the
hardware, and the knowledge to set up and secure a Plan9 web server,
i'd do it in a heartbeat, but hardware and funding aside, I don't
remotely have the knowledge of either webservers in general, or plan9
specifically.

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

It doesn't matter if I choose yes or no, the end result is the same.
It asks for mouse port, resolution and screen, then goes into rio.
When it comes time to partition, it says no disk device is available,
installation cannot continue.

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

 try this.  at the install prompt, type !rc.  then at the rc prompt
 type cat /dev/sdctl.  the output should be interesting.

queuevonqu.com/9boot_a.jpg

[9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Greets all. I'll cut straight to the chase for those who don't like
reading long posts, else please bare with me and read this entire post
so you can offer an opinion.

I would like to erect a site that aims to show Plan9 in a more user/
desktop direction for those who share the enthusiast/niche category. I
want to put up a site with information for users; not how to manage a
mainframe or something, but with info like how to download and install
3rd party apps, how to access usb keys and install apps (for those
like me who's ethernet card doesn't work in plan9), and things like
how to burn CD's, how to add users and faces, how to change the
background (if that can even be done).
In short; simple user functions. Plan9, while I know there are some
here that would disagree, never seemed to me to be geared towards the
casual desktop user (it is a research OS no?). I would like to show it
in a different light, with help from anyone here who will contribute
walkthrus, command strings, and howtos.
I also wouldn't mind if enough of the community would elect someone
(if interested) that I would give FTP access to, to help manage the
site and add things, etc.

What do you think?

Now for the more patient readers; here's the HOW and WHY.
For the HOW;
I have a corny little personal homesite at www.queuevonqu.com
I pay just short of $15 a month for unlimited webspace. I have a half
serious, half for fun project as a chiptune producer (which if you're
not familiar, chiptune is a genre of electronic music that is made
using the sound hardware of vintage video game systems or computer
hardware, in my case, a pair of Atari 2600's). The website address is
www.bitpusher2600.net.
See, I bought the domain name from GoDaddy and have it set up to
forward to the actual address, which is a subdomain on my homesite :
bitpusher2600.queuevonqu.com

I am thinking that if I get enough support from the board here
(digital support, NOT money), I will make the same setup with
something like plan9-4u.net or plan9desktop.net or something like
that (name suggestions welcome!)

For the WHY:
I grew up with (and my first computer as a child for xmas) was an
Apple. I got some PC experience much later. Anyway, I was around 17 or
so when someone introduced me to linux. He had several distros and at
first I was intrigued, but not overly impressed. I tried quite a few
in a month's time until I came upon Slackware. He told me of all of
them to use and learn on, that one was the toughest he had and is
considered quite advanced. Being someone who sees sheer beauty in
minimalism, I was loving it's lack of over guification.

I experienced this MAGNETISM, I couldn't stop thinking about what I
was seeing and would day dream about it often. Unbelievable emotion. I
used it for just a hair over 9 years straight, never even trying
another distro because I loved what I had and was quite comfortable.
The same thing happened when I met a fella online recently who was a
nut for FreeBSD. We got to talking in a forum and he told me if
you're a Slackware veteran, you'll almost be quite at home, and plus
blah blah blah (onward with the list of advantages and superiority of
it compared to linux). That was just a couple months ago, nowadays i'm
a pure FreeBSD user.

Why tell all of that? I'm experiencing the same feelings with Plan9,
though the funny thing is I can hardly do a damn thing with it at the
moment. I have no clue how to access my thumb drive, how to install
3rd party software, etc. I need walkthrus and etc, people to hold my
hand along the way. How to do simple user tasks.

I can't help it though, i'm totally in love with this OS and am
driven to figure it out, which is why I bother you kind folks all the
time :)

So indeed, it's a learning experience for me. I'd like to take
everything a desktop user (like me) can learn in Plan9 and put it up
for direct and easy reference for others. Also, to help promote Plan9
and bring it to the attention of fellow linux and BSD geeks who might
enjoy using it. I realize it's not got alot of modern things, like
flash and java, I don't know that it has IM or the such either, but I
thought I read somewhere once that Mplayer works for it???

If you've read all of this i'm very grateful. I really would like to
put up a minimalistic, simple website for end-users to learn simple
and common desktop administration, myself included.

**For those who would like to help;
I will give you credit on each walkthru, howto, command string, etc
you are willing to help with however you want me to (name, alias,
email, url link, etc).
Help a complete newbie help other newbies! I want to bring more light
to Plan9.

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

How do you mean? Should I boot from Lucho's thumb image or via usb
cdrom?
Since you quoted my first paragraph regarding Lucho's image, I booted
from it. I don't have an lscpi, so I ran pciconf (FreeBSD) and I ran
pci from the plan 9 bootup.

pciconf output here:
www.queuevonqu.com/pciconf.html

Plan9 pci command here:
www.queuevonqu.com/9boot.jpg
(I had to take this from my camera because I don't have another way of
copying this output).

I should point out too that i'm reasonably sure the Atheros card in
this laptop is not supported; doesn't Lucho's image require and
internet connection to install the distribution? Or can I also use the
usb cdrom drive in this somehow?

As I said, when I boot off the usb cdrom drive, I never get to the
gui. :(

Re: [9fans] Netbook Install Help

[Purple_Q]

I'm not overly concerned about the network card, so no worries.
As far as the bootup, which do you want to see, from Lucho's image or
from usb-cdrom?

Also, the usb stick is big enough to put the actual cd .iso file onto
if that will allow me to install the distribution itself that way.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Well, i'll look more closely at the wiki, but I'm dead serious about
putting up a site. You forget; I already own a domain and server
space.

$10 and about a half an hour in my WYSIWYG editor and i've got a site
up.
Yes and I am a newbie, and no, i've read alot of over my head stuff
but nothing simple and forward. I don't know that i've spent alot of
time on the wiki. My mistake perhaps.

If I can't get the support of at least some of the community, it can't
happen because i'm not versed enough in the intricacies of Plan9 to
run such a site alone.

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Ok, so everything being a server instead of a device, I suppose
understanding that would be step 1. I'm going to have to spend some
more time re-reading some of the manpages.

My only machine is a laptop, the ethernet card is broadcom, and from
searching thru the past threads, appears to be a thorn in everyone's
side. BCM44x I believe. If I can ever get familiar here, I'll have
to recompile it's kernel because if i'm reading the output right,
whilst I have a core duo chip, it only inits one of two, not that much
more power is required at present anyhow.

Thanks for your help fellas. I'll quit buggin' ya now ;)
  --Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Well, after a few days of messing around I still can't accomplish
anything. Perhaps i'm thinking too much in BSD and/or linux terms. As
I said before, I like to try to figure out things on my own when and
where possible, but several days in and I still can't function.
Nonetheless,
I understand the everything is text idea, and I'm comfortable with
the mouse actions and getting around the gui, but I still can't figure
out how to
1. mount a cd, usb stick, or another local filesystem.
The mount command is nothing like what i'm used to on linux or BSD,
and the /mnt folder is kind of confusing. How can I mount/ummount
things and approx. where do they end up?

2. Installing software. I have no net connection in Plan9 because it
does not recognize my ethernet card. Do I just take something, say
a .tbz from the sources contrib directory online, put somewhere and
decompress it, then just type mk install, am I missing something?

Any other user-end, desktop administration type of things you feel is
worth pointing out, please feel free to throw them in too or point me
to any specific threads or documents that might help out. I've read
over nearly every document on Bell Lab's Plan9 site, some things I
understand, some is way over my head.
I am really trying though fellas, please don't come at me with the
stick to FreeBSD thing. It is my primary system at present, but I
want to enjoy the experience of Plan9 too. Sincere thanks for your
time.
  --Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Well, i'm certainly glad there are friendly folks here, thank you all.
I guess the need for running configure first is gone here.

I'm having trouble finding info on how to mount a thumb drive. My
primary home machine is a laptop, with a Broadcom card, and since it
is not detected, I have to download things from the source here
(booted into FreeBSD). I promise not to bother you folks much further,
but is there perhaps a simplified version you might give me of the
device lettering system so I can figure out how to mount partitions/
devices?

Truthfully, i'm attracted to plan9 like a super-magnet and I don't
know why since this OS (I might presume) isn't geared toward the daily/
desktop @ home user. Instant messaging, burning CD/DVD things, not
really there? All that aside though, i've got the feeling i'm going to
work at every route possible to earn the admirable title of a 9fan.
Maybe I just love the bunny :) I thought about installing the 9tools
(including rio) right here in my home-sweet-home BSD land, but there's
certainly nothing better than the real thing.

Lol, I apologize for the rant. Take care all. Thank you.
  -Q