Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)
On Fri May 17 13:33:21 +0200 2024, pl...@room3420.net wrote: > an other interesting reading : > https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/critical-analysis-9front-community-conflict-vester-thacker-htt3f?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_more-articles_related-content-card I'm appalled and frankly furious about this article. It's blatant slander which can affect me in my professional career. I'm a phD candidate and my work is based on Plan 9 and developed on 9front; I was going to present it at iwp9 but could not once the venue was changed as it rendered it incompatible with my time table. The article lacks references to many of its claims, and the remaining ones directly contradict its points. The Register article is even linked incorrectly. A superficial reader would not bother to try to follow the links or find the article. For me this is clearly malicious attention-seeking. Regarding the pdf posted earlier[1], almost all of it is factually incorrect. As an example, there are no drivers for modern nvidia or amd chips or bluetooth. Many of the "system calls" listed in the pdf are not system calls (proccreate) or simply don't exit (vlongtime), and so on. In addition, it is trivial to recreate the same content with a query like the following: `Generate a detailed book-style document called "Revitalizing Plan 9: integrating modern enhacements into 9legacy" detailing all improvements introduced in 9front compared to 9legacy'. See for yourself in an excerpt below my email. I don't understand what the goal here is. All this post and pdf accomplish is spreading misinformation, promoting cancel culture, fostering community division and discouraging collaboration with 9front and even 9legacy, directly contradicting both Vic's claims and that of those who have sided with him in the thread. At this point, use of chatgpt in this thread is blatant and harmful. Please stop. Thanks, qwx [1] https://link.storjshare.io/s/jx6tw46kfxskld45ussjek46ccpq/revitalizing-project/RevitalizingPlan9.pdf --- Revitalizing Plan 9: Integrating Modern Enhancements into 9legacy Introduction Plan 9 from Bell Labs has long been recognized for its innovative approach to distributed computing. However, as hardware and software technologies advanced, the need for a more modernized version of Plan 9 became apparent. This need led to the development of 9front, a fork of Plan 9 that incorporates numerous enhancements and updates, surpassing 9legacy in several key areas. This document details these improvements, offering a comprehensive comparison of the advancements introduced in 9front over 9legacy. Chapter 1: Graphics and Video Drivers Improved Graphics Hardware Support One of the most significant areas of enhancement in 9front is its support for modern graphics hardware. This includes: Support for Newer GPUs: 9front integrates drivers for the latest GPU models, ensuring compatibility with modern graphics cards from manufacturers like NVIDIA and AMD. Enhanced Frame Buffer Device: The frame buffer device driver has been optimized for better performance, providing smoother graphics rendering and faster display updates. Broad Chipset Compatibility: 9front supports a wider range of graphics chipsets, allowing it to run on diverse hardware configurations with improved stability and performance. Advanced Video Handling 9front has made considerable strides in handling video output, particularly with high-resolution and multi-monitor setups. High-Resolution Display Support: Enhanced support for high-resolution displays, including 4K monitors, ensures crisp and clear visuals. Multi-Monitor Configurations: Improved multi-monitor support allows users to extend their desktop across multiple screens seamlessly, enhancing productivity and usability. Chapter 2: Networking [...] -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te051f230f2656bbb-M680864af80eddaf3fa87c1bf Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)
On Sun May 12 14:43:17 +0200 2024, vester.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: > I don't mind the ad hominem attacks. I just hope things improve. I do find > it ironic that I'm addressing the 9front community about collaboration and > inclusiveness when I recall those as being two reasons for the inception of > 9front. > > Vic You hit the nail on the head there. Why *are* you addressing just the 9front community or assuming there is no willingness to collaborate on its part? 9legacy users so far have expressed interest in someone else porting dp9ik (David for instance) or demanded explanations about DES cracking (Richard) or asked for others to port or fix fossil on 9front (Lucio), but who explicitely said that they would like to put in some work themselves and collaborate with 9front people? Maybe I'm beginning to misremember the rest of the thread, am I missing anything? Could you point to *specific examples*? 9front users demand code because they've already put in a lot of work and it has been often ignored or dismissed, and because it would be up to them to backport it to 9legacy -- why would they do double duty for a system they don't use and a community which is generally not receptive to their work? Also, do you realize that 9front right now has upwards of 10500 changes in the repository, after 13 years? Bringing 9legacy up to date as you've proposed would require a colossal amount of work, all just to obtain... 9front. Do you believe it has diverged to the point where backporting hardware support, fixing bugs and broken or incomplete implementations and so on will result in anything other than what 9front already is? You yourself demand everyone, especially the 9front community, to make suggestions, start projects, etc. What about you? What do you suggest to do and which projects would you take part in? That's what "just send the code" implies. Promises don't fix bugs or help implement programs, nor help fix this one-sided conversation. I'm asking these questions yet I fear that they will meet radio silence or more empty walls of text, as it happens too often here when asking "why" or how it came to this. I hope I'm wrong. Thanks, qwx PS: I was about to hit send when I received Richard's mail. Richard, thank you for the constructive and detailed response. I hope this marks a turn of the tide. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M6a6ba83828236109b9c23a90 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)
On Fri May 10 13:55:58 +0200 2024, lucio.d...@gmail.com wrote: > I am not allowed to ignore some advice when Vic raises a much more > interesting subject matter and does it in a perfectly justified and well > formulated fashion - and gets accused of being an AI or at minimum playing > one on 9fans? So you're ignoring the answers and advice people are giving you, including my own, because it's just not interesting enough? > How do you know that I did not follow any of Moodley's advice, which > incidentally I acknowledged I may not be competent to follow? Then which of Moody's suggestions did you try, and what worked? > None of the > legacy people I have noted responding have been even remotely as offensive > as those who are determined to deify 9front in legacy's place - when there > is no effort on legacy's side to promote our particular preference, nor to > justify such preference as being superior in any manner. > > What I notice - correct me if I am mistaken - is that any comparison > between 9front and 9legacy seems to needle a few members (very few, there > are many names from that community that have not participated, specifically > the ones I know hand have long respectes, ask them) of the 9front community > that seem to take offence unless 9front is painted in a better light. I > guess that's permissible, but please mind your manners if you choose to go > that route, this is 9fans and 9front I believe has its own discussion > groups. I'm puzzled why you feel there's any kind of crusade against 9legacy going on. Moody was direct about problems he has had trying to collaborate in the past, and hiro questioned some of Vic's statements, essentially just asking "why". I don't see where the pitchforks or the deification is, I must be just stupid. Can you point to specific statements you feel are so abrasive or offensive? Thanks, qwx -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M0d2760ed993d5ea50dc12f2b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)
On Fri May 10 11:09:32 +0200 2024, lucio.d...@gmail.com wrote: > I'm finding it ironic, though, that the defenders of the true 9front faith > find it necessary to insult their "enemies" in a forum dedicated to the > very subject matter they are so disapproving of. Surely they realise that > 9fans is a stupid place to do so? > > Lucio. Several people, including 9front users, have tried to help you and provided you with ways to accomplish your task; they have been so far ignored. Even Moody himself gave you alternatives and arguably easier ways to do it. Here's another one: mycroftiv's ANTS was in sync with 9front for a while and fully supports fossil; it is now out of date but the last ANTS release will probably work on your hardware. iirc noam had also tried to update it based on latest 9front some time ago, but I'm not sure where that lives. You have everything you need, courtesy of your "enemies", the "defenders of the true 9front faith", whatever that is supposed to mean. What have you tried so far, did it work? Thanks, qwx -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M1c1e596f85b044c93a1ab637 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] I did bad things and 9front won't boot
On Thu Dec 21 02:54:25 +0100 2023, o...@o5r.ca wrote: > Hello, > > I seem to have done incredibly stupid things to my 9front instance and now on > boot I get "panic: unknown keyword in config block: ", > followed by a "mount: sys: write on closed pipe pc=0x2008c6" and "mount > /srv/boot /root: mount 185: sys: write on closed pipe pc=0x2008c6”. What stupid things did you do to break it? > Is there a way for me to rewrite the config block to sensible defaults by > dropping into a shell and/or using a usb drive w/ 9front on it (as if doing > an install) to just backstep whatever terrible thing I performed accidentally? > > Thanks, > > Olivier Yes, see fqa 9.2.5 [1]. See also fsconfig(8) [2]. What you enter here depends on your setup. You may want to subscribe to the 9front mailing list [3] and ask 9front-specific questions there to get better help. Cheers, qwx [1] http://fqa.9front.org/fqa9.html#9.2.5 [2] http://man.9front.org/8/fsconfig [3] http://fqa.9front.org/fqa2.html#2.2 -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T110553196be52532-M0b37e672735d00be2ed8c677 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
