Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On Nov 3, 2007 9:49 AM, Sander van Dijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 3, 2007 3:44 AM, Gorka Guardiola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tested it on qemu and it worked for me. May I ask how you booted the image? I used a hard disk on a file. I am using a flat vmware disk as a file, dunno if this affects. I formated it with 9fat, added a kernel and booted from it. -- - curiosity sKilled the cat
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On Nov 3, 2007 3:44 AM, Gorka Guardiola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tested it on qemu and it worked for me. May I ask how you booted the image? Greetings, Sander.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
The Nov 3rd image didn't work for me. But, by turning off extended IDE mode for my HDD, I was able to get an error message in assembly rather than it just hanging without any error message. (Not sure if that makes it irrelevant, but anyway.) http://home.earthlink.net/~eldanen/pastes/dmesg http://home.earthlink.net/~eldanen/pastes/plan9output The following was appended to plan9output: FLAGS=10246 TRAP=0 ENCODE=0 PC=80030089 AX BX 8004483c CX DX SI 020 DI BP 80047e6c CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 CRO 8011 CR2 00f0c05c CR3 c000 panic: exception/interrupt 0 Press almost any key to reset... Eldanen
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
No dice on changing the USB settings in the BIOS. Or a bunch of other settings on/off, that I tried. The only thing that was able to get an error message to show was turning off Extended IDE for my SATA HDD :/. Strange. Thanks, though :). On 11/3/07, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Nov 3rd image didn't work for me. But, by turning off extended IDE mode for my HDD, I was able to get an error message in assembly rather than it just hanging without any error message. (Not sure if that makes it irrelevant, but anyway.) http://home.earthlink.net/~eldanen/pastes/dmesg http://home.earthlink.net/~eldanen/pastes/plan9output The following was appended to plan9output: FLAGS=10246 TRAP=0 ENCODE=0 PC=80030089 AX BX 8004483c CX DX SI 020 DI BP 80047e6c CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 CRO 8011 CR2 00f0c05c CR3 c000 panic: exception/interrupt 0 Press almost any key to reset... it didn't print anything else, did it? the pc indicates that these lines should have been executed ; acid /n/sources/plan9/386/9loaddebug /n/sources/plan9/386/9loaddebug:386 plan 9 boot image /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/386 acid: src(0x80030089) /sys/src/boot/pc/ether.c:119 /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/boot/pc/ether.c 108 print(ether#%d: %s: port 0x%luX irq %lud, 109 ctlr-ctlrno, ctlr-type, ctlr-port, ctlr-irq); [...] 118 ctlr-rb = ialloc(sizeof(RingBuf)*ctlr-nrb, 0); 119if(ctlr-ntb == 0 here's a wild stab in the dark which has bitten us for an embedded kernel we run. make sure to turn off legacy emulation for usb devices in the bios. (phoenix bios has this option in the second tab under one of the bottom selections.) legacy emulation can turn on system management mode. system management mode takes over system resources (like memory) to run the emulation code and then puts things back. the os is not supposed to notice, but sometimes the emulation is not seemless. (or perhaps we don't know all the magic spots in memory.) either way, it's worth a shot. - erik
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
Pietro Gagliardi wrote: I'm not a big fan of having to type man -t 2 xxx | page about 100 times a day to figure out something, So make a shell function or command script that lets you type m xxx instead. and there are things that the man pages don't cover in a clear way, so I think a tutorial should be put in. There are user guide papers describing various subsystems, etc. and at least one good, comprehensive tutorial that I know of: http://www.lsub.org/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf Also check out: http://www.magma.com.ni/moin/Plan9Tutorial
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
For someone like me who have not gotten used to the entire plan 9 ideas yet. Something like this would be very useful. But I think this type of documentation should be placed in the wiki not in /sys/doc. Once you have learned the system, you only need the man files as references or to get more details. you mean like here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/papers/ folks, google is your friend. - erik
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
The new 9load works on all the machines I was able to test it on, including booting from USB flash disks and SATA disks, in AHCI and non-AHCI modes. The only way it's going to work for more people is if the community at large uses it and helps me to understand why it doesn't work on particular machines. Although the BIOS booting code is generating the most error messages, the panics are likely due to interactions with AHCI.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
-Original Message- From: Pietro Gagliardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello. I've been trying out programming Plan 9 since I got the system up and I think I'm getting the hang of learning from man pages. I'm not a big fan of having to type man -t 2 xxx | page about 100 times a day to figure out something, and there are things that the man pages don't cover in a clear way, so I think a tutorial should be put in. I already started writing one, and I think it would benefit from being in /sys/doc. It will cover: - basics - compiler usage - file access - threads - graphics and controls - hopefully networking - debugging within about 15-30 pages. Anyone like this idea? - Pietro For someone like me who have not gotten used to the entire plan 9 ideas yet. Something like this would be very useful. But I think this type of documentation should be placed in the wiki not in /sys/doc. Once you have learned the system, you only need the man files as references or to get more details. Even in linux I remove all the documentation I can find except for the man files.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On Nov 2, 2007 6:39 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've tried it... I think it's great :-) I can confess I've not gotten through the whole thing because my plan 9 box doesn't work anymore... and I'm unable to get one running in VMWare fusion to continue playing around. It still hangs at boot. I'm using venti+fossil if it matters. Probably should just use fossil if it's going to be a toy I guess. would it make sense to use to the older 9load until the new one works for more people? - erik Hmmm that would explain why the liveCD portion works eh?
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
i've sometimes thought that it would be nice to have some kind of overview of the manual pages - classifying them into groups smaller than the main sections, and talking about them a bit. lookman's fine if you know what you're looking for. just reading through the manual pages sequentially turns up many little gems, but isn't really a quick way to go about things.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
The new 9load works on all the machines I was able to test it on, including booting from USB flash disks and SATA disks, in AHCI and non-AHCI modes. The only way it's going to work for more people is if the community at large uses it and helps me to understand why it doesn't work on particular machines. i think the new 9load is a good idea and it's nice to have more booting options. the problem is no actual testing is going on. when folks can't get the livecd booting, that's pretty much the end of the road for them. there are very limited debugging options and there is very little useful information gained from the failure. Although the BIOS booting code is generating the most error messages, the panics are likely due to interactions with AHCI. i believe none of machines with reported failures in the past day have ahci support. (qemu, nforce 55) also, the machines seem to be failing when accessing the cdrom which should be accessable in legacy mode. anyway, what is the answer for folks who are having problems with the current livecd? - erik
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
By the way - thanks for the file again, it told me how to properly use the Look tag in acme! :-) On Nov 2, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Iruata Souza wrote: since no one seemed to care, I'll repeat fgb: did you tried nemo's intro? http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf iru
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
For now, I've added *nobiosload=1 and *noahciload=1 to most cases of the plan9.inis that will appear in tomorrow's CD image. With AHCI and BIOS loading disabled, 9load should be pretty much what it was before they were added. Once plan 9 is installed, especially on new or emulated machines, please boot and select a case ending in `and debug 9load' and let me know what it prints, if 9load panics.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
Here's a little bit of (heavily) commented code that simply sets up
the screen and draws a line. This should be more than enough to get
you started (it's almost how I started).
/* necessary headers */
#include u.h
#include libc.h
#include draw.h
#include cursor.h
/* main routine */
void main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
int c;
void draw_line(void);
/* int initdraw(err_func, default_font, program_name)
If err_func is 0, use default
If default_font is 0, use default */
if (initdraw(0, 0, program name) 0)
sysfatal(could not initialize graphics);
draw_line();
for (;;) /* not the best way to wait for a key hit
I don't want to go into events here */
if (read(0, c, 1) == 1)
break;
exits(0); /* graphics is automatically terminated */
}
So here's how you draw a line:
void draw_line(void)
{
/* this is how to create a color - see allocimage(2) for a complete
list */
Image *black_color = allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 1, 1),
RGB24, 1, DBlack);
Point a = Pt(3, 2), b = Pt(400, 900);
/* line(destination, from, to, from_end_type, to_end_type,
thickness,
source_color, point_to_use);
To get the thickness of the line, use the
equation
1 + (2 * thickness)
In this case, the thickness is 1.
Other choices for end types are Enddisc and
Endarrow.
Plan 9 is more powerful than this, however. You
can take any
color from any image or create more elaborate
arrows with
ARROW() as the type parameter. You can even mix
and match
types. But this is more advanced. Refer to
draw(2).
*/
line(screen, a, Endsquare, Endsquare, 0,
black_color, Pt(0, 0));
}
Just stick that in the code section.
On Nov 2, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Anant Narayanan wrote:
Pietro Gagliardi wrote:
cover in a clear way, so I think a tutorial should be put in. I
already
started writing one, and I think it would benefit from being in
- graphics and controls
While I am mostly able understand the other concepts you mention from
existing documentation, I find graphics (libdraw) to be somewhat
cryptic. I've always felt the need for a tutorial-style
introduction on
how to do graphics in Plan 9.
The current solution seems to be mostly be: Read the code. Which
isn't
really as good.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On 11/2/07, Pietro Gagliardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I caught the file iru, I haven't gone 100% through that but it's looking good so far good to know and good luck! iru
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On Nov 2, 2007 12:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For now, I've added *nobiosload=1 and *noahciload=1 to most cases of the plan9.inis that will appear in tomorrow's CD image. With AHCI and BIOS loading disabled, 9load should be pretty much what it was before they were added. Once plan 9 is installed, especially on new or emulated machines, please boot and select a case ending in `and debug 9load' and let me know what it prints, if 9load panics. Great! I'll try again tomorrow then.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
I tested it on qemu and it worked for me. -- - curiosity sKilled the cat
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On 11/1/07, Pietro Gagliardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: // I'm not a big fan of having to type man -t 2 xxx | page about 100 times // a day to figure out something... oh, who would be? you want 'man -P 2 xxx' instead. ;-) // Anyone like this idea? I certainly like the idea of a good tutorial-style introduction. The subject matter seems to lend itself more to the wiki than /sys/doc. Regarding your list of suggested topics, Don's right about most of that already being in /sys/doc (or the man pages).
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On Nov 1, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Anthony Sorace wrote: I certainly like the idea of a good tutorial-style introduction. The subject matter seems to lend itself more to the wiki than /sys/doc. Regarding your list of suggested topics, Don's right about most of that already being in /sys/doc (or the man pages). /sys/doc doesn't talk much about the system as far as I know - I have to look at lookman first. The man pages have several flaws: there are too many; some important stuff is hard to find; man page jumping is a problem.
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
Sounds good to me. -ishwar On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Pietro Gagliardi wrote: Hello. I've been trying out programming Plan 9 since I got the system up and I think I'm getting the hang of learning from man pages. I'm not a big fan of having to type man -t 2 xxx | page about 100 times a day to figure out something, and there are things that the man pages don't cover in a clear way, so I think a tutorial should be put in. I already started writing one, and I think it would benefit from being in /sys/doc. It will cover: - basics - compiler usage - file access - threads - graphics and controls - hopefully networking - debugging within about 15-30 pages. Anyone like this idea? - Pietro
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
man page jumping is a problem. Use the plumber luke. (Specially in acme, any man page reference is a right click away)
Re: [9fans] Suggestion: Programming Tutorial for /sys/doc
On 11/1/07, Pietro Gagliardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /sys/doc doesn't talk much about the system... Erm, what? That's pretty much all it talks about. From your list of topics, 9.ms gives a nice view of basics, acid.ms gives a nice tour of debugging (acidpaper.ms is a good read, too, but isn't really introductory), comp.ms give a good view of how the compilers are typically used in Plan 9 (as opposed to compiler.ms, which talks about the compilers themselves), and net/net.ms covers networking in Plan 9 very well (I thought i saw a paper on libthread in there, but I seem to be wrong). I'm certainly not saying that there isn't valid work to do for an introductory document, but there's much information already out there on the topics you're covering. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intentions and you want to cover neglected aspects of them or some such. I have to look at lookman first. Well, yes. Or read the index yourself, I suppose (how *would* one do that with the online version?). The man pages have several flaws: there are too many; Again, I'm afraid I don't really understand this complaint. They are numerous, yes, because they're describing lots of different things. They don't make for the best introduction *on their own* for that reason, but they make an excellent reference - which is more or less their intent. some important stuff is hard to find; Sometimes, yes. lookman does a very good job, but is not perfect. Can you give examples of the types of difficulty you've been having? man page jumping is a problem. Why? It's certainly easy enough to do - the acme integration via plumber is very nice. It's a problem in that it doesn't make for a nice, flowing introduction, but again, that's not their intent. My point about the man pages as regards an introductory document is mostly that it'd be bad to needlessly duplicate effort. I'd expect an introductory document to make extensive reference to the manual for the topics it covers.
