Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
More significantly, tab needs a sound previewer even more than ABC does. A PostScript generator alone is just going to lead to lots of beautifully typeset nonsense. no, similar in a way to abc2midi and yaps, tab can generate both midi and postscript. tab filename generate a ps file, while tab -midi filename generate a midi file. moreover, tab2abc can convert from tab to abc format : http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature (2)
I forget to say also, TablEdit http://www.tabledit.com/, can use ABC, and Wayne Cripps' tab, and is available for mswindows and macOs X ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Do abcusers know also about Wayne Cripps' tab program ? it's similar to abc and can produce good tablature for lute, converting the ascii source into postscript : As other people have pointed out, this is a somewhat theoretical possibility for some (like me; the only C compiler I've actually used on the Macs I have is first-edition-KR, and while GhostScript does sort of work it's a real pain). More significantly, tab needs a sound previewer even more than ABC does. A PostScript generator alone is just going to lead to lots of beautifully typeset nonsense. - Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack * food intolerance data recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM Embro, Embro. -- off-list mail to j-c rather than abc at this site, please -- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Hello, I agree the site (http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/AboutTab.html) is not really user friendly because you can only get the sources, and maybe (but I'm not sure) the binaries from the ftp site, in a folder that has disappeared now. I think the MSwindows binaries were available, and since the author assumed a very old version runs on Macintosh Power PC platforms. It's probably possible to get this binary file. Even if you do try, the source code of a program can rarely be compiled on a new platform without some tweaking. as far as Abcm2ps is concerned, it needs no tweaking at all to compile for mswindows or linux, you just have to type make But it's true for some other applications it can be much more tricky I wouldn't say an application is available for the average user unless there is a ready-made and *tested* version of it for the OS he/she is using. It's true most programmers consider it's a piece of cake to compile, and even if it's not really difficult when you have the makefile, it's often long and annoying for normal user to get a compiler, especially for MSwindows users (average C compiler need to download at least 50 Mb of packages). I don't understand why they can't provide at least some old binaries to make their prg more accessible, and update them from time to time (not necesssary with each release). I managed to get a compiler for myself and look how to compile because of this especially. org message : I see your point Eric, but it seems to me you're making a mistake that seems to be a bit too common here: You assume that the average computer user is able to take a C script, run it through a compiler and get a working program right away. This list is heavily dominated by computer programmers, and I suppose for them this kind of things are all in a day's work. The very concept of compiling a program is alien to the vast majority of computer users. Unless you already have some experience in this, you would need quite some self-confidence and a rather desperat need for *that* particular application before you even starts considering going through it all. Even if you do try, the source code of a program can rarely be compiled on a new platform without some tweaking. So sorry, Eric. Although I suppose many of the programmers here will disagree, I wouldn't say an application is available for the average user unless there is a ready-made and *tested* version of it for the OS he/she is using. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Forgeot Eric wrote: Hello, it's nice to see here posts related to music only :) Do abcusers know also about Wayne Cripps' tab program ? I've noticed it, but since it's not cross-platform compatible, it's pretty useless as a *standard* format. Nice idea, though. Frank Nordberg http://www.muscaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
I've noticed it, but since it's not cross-platform compatible, it's pretty useless as a *standard* format. Nice idea, though. ? not cross platform compatible ??? The sources are provided, so you just have to get a C++ compiler and compile them on your machine. So I guess even on Atari it can be compiled and used. The output is in PS, so everyone can view them... It's even written how to use it for : tab on linux and unix tab on Mac OSX tab on Windows tab by mail ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Forgeot Eric wrote: The sources are provided, so you just have to get a C++ compiler and compile them on your machine. I see your point Eric, but it seems to me you're making a mistake that seems to be a bit too common here: You assume that the average computer user is able to take a C script, run it through a compiler and get a working program right away. This list is heavily dominated by computer programmers, and I suppose for them this kind of things are all in a day's work. The very concept of compiling a program is alien to the vast majority of computer users. Unless you already have some experience in this, you would need quite some self-confidence and a rather desperat need for *that* particular application before you even starts considering going through it all. Even if you do try, the source code of a program can rarely be compiled on a new platform without some tweaking. So sorry, Eric. Although I suppose many of the programmers here will disagree, I wouldn't say an application is available for the average user unless there is a ready-made and *tested* version of it for the OS he/she is using. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Frank Nordberg wrote: So sorry, Eric. Although I suppose many of the programmers here will disagree, I wouldn't say an application is available for the average user unless there is a ready-made and *tested* version of it for the OS he/she is using. You claimed in your first e-mail that the application in question wasn't portable, upon which Eric pointed out that the application can be compiled on many platforms. Whether or not the application is easy to use for avarage users, is a completely different question, and has nothing to do with portability. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
I. Oppenheim wrote: You claimed in your first e-mail that the application in question wasn't portable, No, I didn't. I said the format (not the application) wasn't cross-platform compatible. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the Obfuscated ABC Contest
Fascinating! I always knew that somebody would come up for a use for the middle directive which involved shifting the notes by an amount different from an octave. The experimentation which produced that was not too difficult using BarFly, except for that insane numerical transpose notation; keeping the middle= and transpose directives consistent is a huge pain in the arse. Nobody but a guitarist ever thinks of intervals by counting semitones, and in this case (unlike a lute) there is no advantage to be gained by any matching with the tab formalism. Transposing by a fixed number of semitones makes sense in the normal situation, where you want to keep the tune in the same mode, but simply have it played in a different key. In this case, what you need is for the program to play the tune as it appears in the music, and there's no way of doing that using a straightforward transposition. Shifting the note pitches by means of the middle directive is like putting a capo on an Appalachian dulcimer - you change the mode as well as the pitch. You can't make your X:2 version play the same as the X:3 version, even though they produce the same staff display. The second part of the tune sounds good, but I'm not convinced by the first part. It's mainly the big interval from g to E which sounds odd. Then again, we're used to hearing tunes composed for the fiddle, where that would be a difficult interval to play. On a diatonically - fretted instrument tuned in the way you suggest it would be perfectly easy, and might have been common in tunes of the day. How many more tunes are in the MS? Does the same logic produce reasonable sounding music from the others? What you really need here is a program which would accept the original tab and convert it to abc given a set of assumptions about the tuning and fretting of the instrument. You could then experiment with different tuning and fretting schemes until you find one which produces consistently meaningful results for all the tunes in the MS. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Jack Campin wrote: I have been trying to transcribe a rather obscure, and as far as I know never-before-transcribed, piece of tablature from a Scottish manuscript of about 1680. Always trust Jack to come up with good an unusual music - and interesting challenges :) The MS gives no clue as to what instrument it's for or what the tuning is, ... Hmmm... I may shed some light on that, but first - in case anybody has abctab2ps - here's Jack's original tab translated into abtab X:1 T:Cowgate gigue M:none L:1/4 K:Bmin Clef=french4tab [,d][,c][,b]ba[,d][,][,]cb[,][,]e[,,d]\ [,,d]|[,d][,c][,b]c|[,c]dcbb:|\ |:[,c][,d][,e]b[,b][,b]([,c][,b][,a][,b][,c]) [,a][,,c][,,c][,c][,d][,e]b[,b][,b]bcab[,c]\ [,d][,e]b[,b][,b][,][,c]([,a][,b][,c])[,a]\ [,,c][,,c]bcde[,d][,e]b[,,c][,d][,c][,b][,b]|] --- Now for the instrument: Fifths-tuning seems to be the only one that works. Diatonic frets is pretty obvious too. This almost certainly means it's a small instrument. Diatonic frets create one problem though. I don't know if anybody else spotted the error in Jack's abc transcription. Here's the correct one: X:2 T:Cowgate gigue M:6/4 L:1/4 Q:3/4=100 K:G Minor BAG dcB|=e2d g_EE|B2A G2=e |Af=e d2d:| ABc dGG|AG/F/G/A/ FDD|ABc dGG |d=ec d3 | ABc dGG|AF/G/AFDD|def gB/c/d|DBA G2G|] This doesn't sound very good to my ears at least. There are two possible solutions to that: *Half-frets - The first string has chromatic frets, the other ones diatonic. But this seems to create more problems than it solves, and besides the manuscript seems to be about a hundred years too young for that. So a more likely answer is: *No frets - the player was supposed to know that some of the notes should be fingered slightly lower on the fingerboard. (I don't know of any other examples of French tablature would be used for a fretless instrument, but if it was used (and why shouldn't it?) using the letter a-e for *fingering* seems a very likely solution) So, we have a stringed instrument that: *is relatively small *has four strings *is tuned in fifths *doesn't use the fourth string very much *doesn't have frets *is used for playing jigs *was known and used in late 17th century Scotland Now, what on earth could that be? ;-) Assuming a tuning of GDAE (mind you, it's just a wild guess!) here's what we end up with. (Btw, I've also made a few rhythmic changes to Jack's transcription and halved the note values since 6/8 seems to be a more likely time signature than 6/4 for a late 17th century jig) X:3 T:Cowgate gigue M:6/8 L:1/8 R:jig K:Bmin V:1 dcB fed|g2f bGG|d2c B2g |cag f2f:| |:cde fBB|cB/A/B/c/ AFF|cde fBB |fge f3 | cde fBB|c3/A/B/c/ AFF|fga b3/d/e/f/|Fdc B2B:| X:4 %%tabrhstyle grid T:Cowgate gigue M:6/8 L:1/8 R:jig K:Bmin V:1 dcB fed|g2f bGG|d2c B2g |cag f2f:| |:cde fBB|cB/A/B/c/ AFF|cde fBB |fge f3 | cde fBB|c3/A/B/c/ AFF|fga b3/d/e/f/|Fdc B2B:| V:2 clef=french4tab [,d1][,c1][,b1] b1a1[,d1]|\ c2b1 e1[,,d1][,,d1]|\ [,d2][,c1] [,b2]c1|\ [,c1]d1c1 b2b1:| [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ ([,c1][,b/][,a/][,b/][,c/]) [,a1][,,c1][,,c1]|\ [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ b1c1a1 b3| [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ [,c3/]([,a/][,b/][,c/]) [,a1][,,c1][,,c1]|\ b1c1d1 e3/[,d/][,e/]b/|\ [,,c1][,d1][,c1] [,b2][,b1]|] Frank Nodberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Phil Taylor wrote: Fascinating! I always knew that somebody would come up for a use for the middle directive which involved shifting the notes by an amount different from an Seems I got so preoccupied with actual music that I missed a vital point in his posting: I really hope you're not trying to make a new system for tablature in abc that is incompatible with the already existing abctab! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Phil Taylor wrote: The second part of the tune sounds good, but I'm not convinced by the first part. It's mainly the big interval from g to E which sounds odd. I don't know. It sounded odd to me too at first, but now I really like that detail. Then again, we're used to hearing tunes composed for the fiddle, where that would be a difficult interval to play. On a diatonically - fretted instrument tuned in the way you suggest it would be perfectly easy, and might have been common in tunes of the day. The mystery deepens! I more or less stated in a previous post that the fiddle was indeed the original instrument for this tune, but Phil is right: that passage would be really difficult on a bowed instrument. Even so - I can't find a way to correct Jack's typo and retain a musically satisfying result without removing the frets. Does anybody know of a plucked fretless instrument from that period? Or does anybody have a different solution to the problem? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
