RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
In re:[1] - I found an issue with OWA that I complained about in Exchange 2003 RTM, filed a DCR on - got refused - and then found it was fixed in sp2 - because of a change that an MS competitor had made to their software. BAH. I don't know how they've implemented it, but I discussed the fat reply issue in Monad with Snover and he claims it is a non-issue. While it appears that text is being returned, that's just because Monad is smart enough to understand its output medium and that what gets returned from most queries is actually a reference to an object. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:01 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I missed the whole MONAD (WHOA for short) presentation this year. I was outside yapping with Dean and Laura and Sean Deuby and Rich Milburn and a few others. The previous year they had showed how they were going to treat AD like a file system and allow you to CD through it and ditto for exchange and mailboxes and the registry and just about anything else that could be considered hierarchical but it sounds like a lot of that got pulled. I am really hoping the Exchange team a good job with the Exchange MONAD stuff. The WMI implementations[1] pretty much suck and it isn't even WMI's fault. I have fears though, again based on the chatter on EHLO. They seem to think that the MONAD way is the fat way in that if I want to find out the last logon time (or some other singular piece of info) on a mailbox I have to pull back all of the mailbox's info. This is great for a one mailbox thing, but if I need that piece of data for 200,000 mailboxes that is just a ton of wasted network bandwidth and time. The only way that makes sense is if you are writing the MONAD pieces to support GUI which displays that info and always needs all of it to give you an ESM like display that we have now. [1] I found yet another crappy thing in the Exchange WMI implementation this last year that I am still talking to MS about but have now been escalated to a manager who can probably tell me with more force that it is by design. If he does, I will simply publish the issue so everyone will be aware of it and do that for now on as I am tired of being told by the Exchange group that it is by design and then years later they end up fixing it because enough people have started to complain. I would rather get everyone on board up front early complaining if that is the only thing that is going to make Exch Dev listen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:36 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
I was about to mention that we missed that - I think we were looking at the roll-ups and chocolate fountains and I had no clue what it was :) So since I missed the presentation... is there a place where one can see MONAD now? i.e. is it just coming with E12, or is it to be in Vista? Or is it in Vista now? (I would check but my copy is not on the Net and needs to be activated and after 45 minutes on 3 different phone numbers at MS yesterday I got yet a 4th for MSDN tech support. I think I will reload and save myself some time!!) --- Rich Milburn MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development Applebee's International, Inc. 4551 W. 107th St Overland Park, KS 66207 913-967-2819 -- I love the smell of red herrings in the morning - anonymous -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:01 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I missed the whole MONAD (WHOA for short) presentation this year. I was outside yapping with Dean and Laura and Sean Deuby and Rich Milburn and a few others. The previous year they had showed how they were going to treat AD like a file system and allow you to CD through it and ditto for exchange and mailboxes and the registry and just about anything else that could be considered hierarchical but it sounds like a lot of that got pulled. I am really hoping the Exchange team a good job with the Exchange MONAD stuff. The WMI implementations[1] pretty much suck and it isn't even WMI's fault. I have fears though, again based on the chatter on EHLO. They seem to think that the MONAD way is the fat way in that if I want to find out the last logon time (or some other singular piece of info) on a mailbox I have to pull back all of the mailbox's info. This is great for a one mailbox thing, but if I need that piece of data for 200,000 mailboxes that is just a ton of wasted network bandwidth and time. The only way that makes sense is if you are writing the MONAD pieces to support GUI which displays that info and always needs all of it to give you an ESM like display that we have now. [1] I found yet another crappy thing in the Exchange WMI implementation this last year that I am still talking to MS about but have now been escalated to a manager who can probably tell me with more force that it is by design. If he does, I will simply publish the issue so everyone will be aware of it and do that for now on as I am tired of being told by the Exchange group that it is by design and then years later they end up fixing it because enough people have started to complain. I would rather get everyone on board up front early complaining if that is the only thing that is going to make Exch Dev listen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:36 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
The basic beta shell is available. Go to Microsoft.com/downloads and search on monad for the various downloads available, and pick the one appropriate for your system. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Milburn Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:23 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I was about to mention that we missed that - I think we were looking at the roll-ups and chocolate fountains and I had no clue what it was :) So since I missed the presentation... is there a place where one can see MONAD now? i.e. is it just coming with E12, or is it to be in Vista? Or is it in Vista now? (I would check but my copy is not on the Net and needs to be activated and after 45 minutes on 3 different phone numbers at MS yesterday I got yet a 4th for MSDN tech support. I think I will reload and save myself some time!!) --- Rich Milburn MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development Applebee's International, Inc. 4551 W. 107th St Overland Park, KS 66207 913-967-2819 -- I love the smell of red herrings in the morning - anonymous -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:01 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I missed the whole MONAD (WHOA for short) presentation this year. I was outside yapping with Dean and Laura and Sean Deuby and Rich Milburn and a few others. The previous year they had showed how they were going to treat AD like a file system and allow you to CD through it and ditto for exchange and mailboxes and the registry and just about anything else that could be considered hierarchical but it sounds like a lot of that got pulled. I am really hoping the Exchange team a good job with the Exchange MONAD stuff. The WMI implementations[1] pretty much suck and it isn't even WMI's fault. I have fears though, again based on the chatter on EHLO. They seem to think that the MONAD way is the fat way in that if I want to find out the last logon time (or some other singular piece of info) on a mailbox I have to pull back all of the mailbox's info. This is great for a one mailbox thing, but if I need that piece of data for 200,000 mailboxes that is just a ton of wasted network bandwidth and time. The only way that makes sense is if you are writing the MONAD pieces to support GUI which displays that info and always needs all of it to give you an ESM like display that we have now. [1] I found yet another crappy thing in the Exchange WMI implementation this last year that I am still talking to MS about but have now been escalated to a manager who can probably tell me with more force that it is by design. If he does, I will simply publish the issue so everyone will be aware of it and do that for now on as I am tired of being told by the Exchange group that it is by design and then years later they end up fixing it because enough people have started to complain. I would rather get everyone on board up front early complaining if that is the only thing that is going to make Exch Dev listen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:36 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough to look at examples which doesn't take much learning. MONAD might be worth learning but I am still not sure about it. They have scaled it back so much from what they were initially talking about when I thought, that is seriously cool. I certainly don't feel that it is going to turn a bunch of people into scripters by just being released. The model will confuse the crap out of most people as it is even more involved than vbscript which people don't want to learn because it is too much like programming. I have made some recommendations to folks at MS all the way up to Iain McDonald (great guy) that all of the MS management tools should have a switch to output MONAD code so that someone could do something once in the GUI and get a MONAD script generated automatically that does the same thing. Then they can tweak that to do other things. It is the only way I visualize that MONAD will really take off like people seem to think it will, at least over and above perl and vbscript. In other words, I don't see anything there that will take someone who wasn't a scripter and wasn't thinking about being a scripter to become one. You will have the same bunch of yahoos writing scripts but they will be doing it in MONAD instead of vbscript or VB. It is sort of like .NET in general, it certainly didn't produce a whoosh of a zillion new coders. Some of the folks that were already writing in other languages adopted it, some, older school, steadfastly avoided it. Personally I might consider .NET for a web site, other than that, not really. If it becomes ubiquitous and MS actually starts coding low level system and kernel stuff in it I might start looking at it. As it stands right now I feel the same way that many of my friends do one of which has renamed .NET to .FAT which I think is pretty funny. He even told me if I started writing my tools in it he would refuse to use them. I expect there are others. Maybe MS needs to rename it because I know when I hear .NET I think fat and lazy. I don't know why, I just do. I have seen enough posts in the newsgroups of issues and limitations and don't feel the benefits outweigh them. joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Cliffe Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:42 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Well, I just think that most of the people in the command line and/or scripting camp like to encourage others to learn to use them simply because they feel it's to your benefit. I don't think they really like to promote the you're not a real admin... sentiment. Or at least I hope not :-) Right now in my org, I'm in the minority using the CLI. I just prefer working that way and don't knock my colleagues for their methods, but rather show them other ways to get at the info they need. CLI and scripting fosters your knowledge of what's happening in the background, helps you learn the product and truly is a great way to automate tasks! (if not THE way) For the longest time I've been meaning to learn VBscript, but haven't devoted enough time to go for it yet. From what I've seen so far, it scares me :-P but I still intend to give it a shot. I've been getting by with Perl and CMD shell for now (I came from a KSH/*nix background). Have you seen some of the sample command shell scripts Dean has put together? Or the stuff that Alain Lissoir can do with WMI? Wow! Anyway, this topic has drifted further now, but I'm going to resist the urge to change the subject line. The last time I did that, we had a little side bit just on the fact that the subject line changed! :-D -DaveC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Habeeb Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Susan, THANK YOU !!! There are a LOT of people on this list that do not believe that real Admins use the GUI. Some believe that you're not a real Admin if you do. I do. I have to. I can't allocate time to learn scripting right now because I'm overworked as is. I'll just leave it at that. RH __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Wednesday,
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military facility? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough to look at examples which doesn't take much learning. MONAD might be worth learning but I am still not sure about it. They have scaled it back so much from what they were initially talking about when I thought, that is seriously cool. I certainly don't feel that it is going to turn a bunch of people into scripters by just being released. The model will confuse the crap out of most people as it is even more involved than vbscript which people don't want to learn because it is too much like programming. I have made some recommendations to folks at MS all the way up to Iain McDonald (great guy) that all of the MS management tools should have a switch to output MONAD code so that someone could do something once in the GUI and get a MONAD script generated automatically that does the same thing. Then they can tweak that to do other things. It is the only way I visualize that MONAD will really take off like people seem to think it will, at least over and above perl and vbscript. In other words, I don't see anything there that will take someone who wasn't a scripter and wasn't thinking about being a scripter to become one. You will have the same bunch of yahoos writing scripts but they will be doing it in MONAD instead of vbscript or VB. It is sort of like .NET in general, it certainly didn't produce a whoosh of a zillion new coders. Some of the folks that were already writing in other languages adopted it, some, older school, steadfastly avoided it. Personally I might consider .NET for a web site, other than that, not really. If it becomes ubiquitous and MS actually starts coding low level system and kernel stuff in it I might start looking at it. As it stands right now I feel the same way that many of my friends do one of which has renamed .NET to .FAT which I think is pretty funny. He even told me if I started writing my tools in it he would refuse to use them. I expect there are others. Maybe MS needs to rename it because I know when I hear .NET I think fat and lazy. I don't know why, I just do. I have seen enough posts in the newsgroups of issues and limitations and don't feel the benefits outweigh them. joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Cliffe Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:42 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Well, I just think that most of the people in the command line and/or scripting camp like to encourage others to learn to use them simply because they feel it's to your benefit. I don't think they really like to promote the you're not a real admin... sentiment. Or at least I hope not :-) Right now in my org, I'm in the minority using the CLI. I just prefer working that way and don't knock my colleagues for their methods, but rather show them other ways to get at the info they need. CLI and scripting fosters your knowledge of what's happening in the background, helps you learn the product and truly is a great way to automate tasks! (if not THE way) For the longest time I've been meaning to learn VBscript, but haven't devoted enough time to go for it yet. From what I've seen so far, it scares me :-P but I still intend to give it a shot. I've been getting by with Perl and CMD shell for now (I came from a KSH/*nix background). Have you seen some of the sample command shell scripts Dean has put together? Or the stuff that Alain Lissoir can do with WMI? Wow! Anyway, this topic has drifted further now, but I'm going to resist the urge to change the subject line. The last time I did that, we had a little side bit just on the fact that the subject line changed! :-D -DaveC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Habeeb Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Susan, THANK YOU !!! There are a LOT of people on this list that do not believe that real Admins use the GUI. Some believe that you're
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
Subject line change noted :-D You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I do now! I have to admit that I have only skimmed (and have mostly been avoiding) the Script Center because I really wanted to sit down *away from work* and look at its offerings. I never digged enough to realize this was one of them, so thanks for that! -DaveC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough to look at examples which doesn't take much learning. MONAD might be worth learning but I am still not sure about it. They have scaled it back so much from what they were initially talking about when I thought, that is seriously cool. I certainly don't feel that it is going to turn a bunch of people into scripters by just being released. The model will confuse the crap out of most people as it is even more involved than vbscript which people don't want to learn because it is too much like programming. I have made some recommendations to folks at MS all the way up to Iain McDonald (great guy) that all of the MS management tools should have a switch to output MONAD code so that someone could do something once in the GUI and get a MONAD script generated automatically that does the same thing. Then they can tweak that to do other things. It is the only way I visualize that MONAD will really take off like people seem to think it will, at least over and above perl and vbscript. In other words, I don't see anything there that will take someone who wasn't a scripter and wasn't thinking about being a scripter to become one. You will have the same bunch of yahoos writing scripts but they will be doing it in MONAD instead of vbscript or VB. It is sort of like .NET in general, it certainly didn't produce a whoosh of a zillion new coders. Some of the folks that were already writing in other languages adopted it, some, older school, steadfastly avoided it. Personally I might consider .NET for a web site, other than that, not really. If it becomes ubiquitous and MS actually starts coding low level system and kernel stuff in it I might start looking at it. As it stands right now I feel the same way that many of my friends do one of which has renamed .NET to .FAT which I think is pretty funny. He even told me if I started writing my tools in it he would refuse to use them. I expect there are others. Maybe MS needs to rename it because I know when I hear .NET I think fat and lazy. I don't know why, I just do. I have seen enough posts in the newsgroups of issues and limitations and don't feel the benefits outweigh them. joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Cliffe Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:42 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Well, I just think that most of the people in the command line and/or scripting camp like to encourage others to learn to use them simply because they feel it's to your benefit. I don't think they really like to promote the you're not a real admin... sentiment. Or at least I hope not :-) Right now in my org, I'm in the minority using the CLI. I just prefer working that way and don't knock my colleagues for their methods, but rather show them other ways to get at the info they need. CLI and scripting fosters your knowledge of what's happening in the background, helps you learn the product and truly is a great way to automate tasks! (if not THE way) For the longest time I've been meaning to learn VBscript, but haven't devoted enough time to go for it yet. From what I've seen so far, it scares me :-P but I still intend to give it a shot. I've been getting by with Perl and CMD shell for now (I came from a KSH/*nix background). Have you seen some of the sample command shell scripts Dean has put together? Or the stuff that Alain Lissoir can do with WMI? Wow! Anyway, this topic has drifted further now, but I'm going to resist the urge to change the subject line. The last time I did that, we had a little side bit just on the fact that the subject line changed! :-D -DaveC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Habeeb Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Speaking from my own personal discoveries In a nutshell, MONAD is supposed to be a new command line shell to replace the relatively stagnant CMD shell. As I understand it, MONAD offers the following capabilities above and beyond what CMD provides: · Ability to leverage system objects at the command line (interactive) as well as through a script. · Ability to leverage nearly anything exposed via the .Net Framework 2.0. · Enhanced security framework which by default only allows interactive input at the command line and blocks the running of scripts - allows provides intermediate levels for code signing of scripts from certain sources. · Provide support for WSH scripts · Provide an experience *similar* to that available in the most widely used *nix shells (Korn, Born, C) So let me now caveat the above by saying I have very little experience working with the MONAD shell (aka MSH). At the very least I can say that MONAD is more useful to me than WSH/VBScript since I am more comfortable with C# and as I can execute nearly every command (for testing purposes) from the command line as opposed to in the body of a script. To date, one of my favorite cmdlets is the “get-member” which enumerates the properties, methods, and other relevant information that you can use or squeeze out of a given object. So am I sold on it? Not exactly (it is still a little too much like programming) but I do think it is much better than what we have today from a shell perspective. Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? Aric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Creamer, Mark Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:55 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military facility? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough to look at examples which doesn't take much learning. MONAD might be worth learning but I am still not sure about it. They have scaled it back so much from what they were initially talking about when I thought, that is seriously cool. I certainly don't feel that it is going to turn a bunch of people into scripters by just being released. The model will confuse the crap out of most people as it is even more involved than vbscript which people don't want to learn because it is too much like programming. I have made some recommendations to folks at MS all the way up to Iain McDonald (great guy) that all of the MS management tools should have a switch to output MONAD code so that someone could do something once in the GUI and get a MONAD script generated automatically that does the same thing. Then they can tweak that to do other things. It is the only
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Speaking from my own personal discoveries In a nutshell, MONAD is supposed to be a new command line shell to replace the relatively stagnant CMD shell. As I understand it, MONAD offers the following capabilities above and beyond what CMD provides: * Ability to leverage system objects at the command line (interactive) as well as through a script. * Ability to leverage nearly anything exposed via the .Net Framework 2.0. * Enhanced security framework which by default only allows interactive input at the command line and blocks the running of scripts - allows provides intermediate levels for code signing of scripts from certain sources. * Provide support for WSH scripts * Provide an experience *similar* to that available in the most widely used *nix shells (Korn, Born, C) So let me now caveat the above by saying I have very little experience working with the MONAD shell (aka MSH). At the very least I can say that MONAD is more useful to me than WSH/VBScript since I am more comfortable with C# and as I can execute nearly every command (for testing purposes) from the command line as opposed to in the body of a script. To date, one of my favorite cmdlets is the get-member which enumerates the properties, methods, and other relevant information that you can use or squeeze out of a given object. So am I sold on it? Not exactly (it is still a little too much like programming) but I do think it is much better than what we have today from a shell perspective. Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? Aric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Creamer, Mark Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:55 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military facility? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
IIRC in the conversations that I had with MS around MONAD was that one goal was intended to fix the issue of inconsistencies of the various command line tools (different switches, piping options, etc.). The other goal was to ensure that every option that was available via the GUI was exposed via the command line and vice versa. In essence the GUI was going to be alternate way of generating the MONAD command line entries. One proposal was the you would be able to capture any GUI operations into a MONAD command line script to facilitate batch operations. Kind of a scripting for dummies.. :-) Diane -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Speaking from my own personal discoveries In a nutshell, MONAD is supposed to be a new command line shell to replace the relatively stagnant CMD shell. As I understand it, MONAD offers the following capabilities above and beyond what CMD provides: * Ability to leverage system objects at the command line (interactive) as well as through a script. * Ability to leverage nearly anything exposed via the .Net Framework 2.0. * Enhanced security framework which by default only allows interactive input at the command line and blocks the running of scripts - allows provides intermediate levels for code signing of scripts from certain sources. * Provide support for WSH scripts * Provide an experience *similar* to that available in the most widely used *nix shells (Korn, Born, C) So let me now caveat the above by saying I have very little experience working with the MONAD shell (aka MSH). At the very least I can say that MONAD is more useful to me than WSH/VBScript since I am more comfortable with C# and as I can execute nearly every command (for testing purposes) from the command line as opposed to in the body of a script. To date, one of my favorite cmdlets is the get-member which enumerates the properties, methods, and other relevant information that you can use or squeeze out of a given object. So am I sold on it? Not exactly (it is still a little too much like programming) but I do think it is much better than what we have today from a shell perspective. Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? Aric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Creamer, Mark Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:55 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military facility? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Speaking from my own personal discoveries In a nutshell, MONAD is supposed to be a new command line shell to replace the relatively stagnant CMD shell. As I understand it, MONAD offers the following capabilities above and beyond what CMD provides: * Ability to leverage system objects at the command line (interactive) as well as through a script. * Ability to leverage nearly anything exposed via the .Net Framework 2.0. * Enhanced security framework which by default only allows interactive input at the command line and blocks the running of scripts - allows provides intermediate levels for code signing of scripts from certain sources. * Provide support for WSH scripts * Provide an experience *similar* to that available in the most widely used *nix shells (Korn, Born, C) So let me now caveat the above by saying I have very little experience working with the MONAD shell (aka MSH). At the very least I can say that MONAD is more useful to me than WSH/VBScript since I am more comfortable with C# and as I can execute nearly every command (for testing purposes) from the command line as opposed to in the body of a script. To date, one of my favorite cmdlets is the get-member which enumerates the properties, methods, and other relevant information that you can use or squeeze out of a given object. So am I sold on it? Not exactly (it is still a little too much like programming) but I do think it is much better than what we have today from a shell perspective. Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? Aric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Creamer, Mark Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:55 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
I missed the whole MONAD (WHOA for short) presentation this year. I was outside yapping with Dean and Laura and Sean Deuby and Rich Milburn and a few others. The previous year they had showed how they were going to treat AD like a file system and allow you to CD through it and ditto for exchange and mailboxes and the registry and just about anything else that could be considered hierarchical but it sounds like a lot of that got pulled. I am really hoping the Exchange team a good job with the Exchange MONAD stuff. The WMI implementations[1] pretty much suck and it isn't even WMI's fault. I have fears though, again based on the chatter on EHLO. They seem to think that the MONAD way is the fat way in that if I want to find out the last logon time (or some other singular piece of info) on a mailbox I have to pull back all of the mailbox's info. This is great for a one mailbox thing, but if I need that piece of data for 200,000 mailboxes that is just a ton of wasted network bandwidth and time. The only way that makes sense is if you are writing the MONAD pieces to support GUI which displays that info and always needs all of it to give you an ESM like display that we have now. [1] I found yet another crappy thing in the Exchange WMI implementation this last year that I am still talking to MS about but have now been escalated to a manager who can probably tell me with more force that it is by design. If he does, I will simply publish the issue so everyone will be aware of it and do that for now on as I am tired of being told by the Exchange group that it is by design and then years later they end up fixing it because enough people have started to complain. I would rather get everyone on board up front early complaining if that is the only thing that is going to make Exch Dev listen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:36 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir
RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer
While everyone's on this thread, I'd like to point to the free Express Editions software that MS has made available: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/ (Sorry if this has been mentioned before but free tools for those wanting to increase their knowledge base is always worth repeating!) Mike Thommes From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michael B. Smith Sent: Thu 12/1/2005 7:36 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I gotta tell ya -- I just started vbscript-ing a few years ago (with great help from joe and Alain here) -- C# with .NET 2.0 just rocks (whether fat or not -- need to use those 64 bits for SOMETHING). Visual C# 2005 makes it a breeze...I'm looking forward to the managed classes for Exchange etc. using monad as an iterative/RAD development environment. Interop is a PITA. With the C# 3.0 language enhancements, it can look an AWFUL lot like a monad script...(remember the easy glide path that Jeff Snover talked about at the Summit?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:24 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer I concur. Whoa is a good description. If you are a programmer or mondo scripter, Monad will rock. I pity the poor batch file folks though. I mean, does anyone think that writing something that looks like a cross between korn shell, perl and .Net is intuitive? What it does provide, for those that take the time and have the skill set, is a much richer environment for creating command-line tools that those who don't want to learn how to write scripts can use with much greater effect. I predict class warfare between the script and script-nots :-). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:14 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer ... so in the demo I saw the guy was calculating the number of days between then and 12/31/2005. As I was watching him do all these command lines... I'm thinkin' in my beancounter side of my brain... you know.. my cell phone has a calculator and I could have figured that number out in half that time :-) What I'm looking forward to it for is that Exchange will have it and all the lovely people that write wizards and tools and scripts and buttons can use the power of it. But yeah... it's a bit whoa.. joe wrote: Question of the day: If .Net = .Fat then does cmdlet = piglet? ROFL! Other than that, I agree, it is the replacement for a shell that is showing its age. On the positive side you can do some cool serialized piping (aka piping objects) instead of just piping text. Very powerful. On the negative side, it is pretty intense all around. It is going to scare some people. Plus there are concerns about how fat and slow it might be. I had a nice conversation with the Exchange Dev folks over at EHLO for instance concerning the MONAD way. -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bernard, Aric *Sent:* Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:08 PM *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer Speaking from my own personal discoveries In a nutshell, MONAD is supposed to be a new command line shell to replace the relatively stagnant CMD shell. As I understand it, MONAD offers the following capabilities above and beyond what CMD provides: * Ability to leverage system objects at the command line (interactive) as well as through a script. * Ability to leverage nearly anything exposed via the .Net Framework 2.0. * Enhanced security framework which by default only allows interactive input at the command line and blocks the running of scripts - allows provides intermediate levels for code signing of scripts from certain sources. * Provide support for WSH scripts * Provide an experience *similar* to that available in the most widely used *nix shells (Korn, Born, C) So let me now caveat the above by saying I have very little experience working with the MONAD shell (aka MSH). At the very least I can say that MONAD is more useful to me than WSH/VBScript since I am more comfortable with C# and as I can execute nearly every command (for testing purposes) from the command line as opposed to in the body of a script. To date, one of my favorite cmdlets is the get-member which enumerates the properties, methods, and other relevant information that you can use or squeeze out of a given object. So am I sold on it? Not exactly (it is still a little too much like programming) but I
