Re: Point system has me very confused
LOU GERSTNER, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?!? MY BEEF with this whole issue, is that the point system confusion is STILL a problem. Guys, the point system thing (officially called Value-Based Pricing) was announced in JULY OF 2000. THAT'S 17 MONTHS ago. And customers are STILL having a problem with it. And customers are STILL getting different answers, depending on which reseller or Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, a Tivoli office will talk to them at all.) And resellers get different answers, depending on which Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, that a Tivoli office will talk to them at all). It took us 9 MONTHS to get our maintenance contract renewed because of this mess, with some behavior from Tivoli that I can't repeat here but I will euphemistically call inappropriate language to a customer. And TIVOLI DOES NOTHING TO CLEAN UP THE MESS, which is pretty representative of Tivoli corps behavior since taking over marketing of this first class product. I keep holding my breath for fear that the good people who developed and support the product are going to get fed up and bail out, in which case we are all toast. LOU GERSTNER, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOUR TURNED YOUR ADSM CUSTOMERS OVER TO TIVOLI??!??? My opinions and nobody else's. Wanda Prather -Original Message- From: Ted Byrne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused Dwight, Looking into things you realize that on 20 existing machines you have NEVER use software distribution SO you just drop it from those 20 machines and use the freed points to apply towards TSM client TWS points for your new 12 machines. Unfortunately, I believe that this is not correct. According to the discussions with Tivoli that we've had (as a reseller), the points are transferrable only within the confines of a Product Number. This is true even for products that one might think of as components of the same product. For example, you might have a stable of 10 Unix servers that you're backing up with TDP/Oracle (Product 5698-DPO). Being Tier-2 systems, the list price is 200 points each client, about $62,000 total. Your company announces an acquisition of a company, and in the course of hashing out the details of the transition, it is decided that the merged company will standardize on DB2 as a database platform. In addition, they have 100 Unix web servers that are being backed up with a product that nobody likes. TSM is selected as the standard backup method for the merged company. In our understanding, (someone from Tivoli correct me if I am wrong about this, please!) you may not transfer the 2000 fallow points from your existing 5698-DPO bucket to the 5698-TSM (Managed System - LAN) product that is required to backup your web servers. Total list price: 1500 points, about $46,500. Again, this is how it was explained to us; if someone from Tivoli can correct me, I'd be happy to hear otherwise. Quoting from the Tivoli Quick Quoter tool: Tivoli Points are Product Specific. Ted Byrne
Re: Point system has me very confused
And TIVOLI DOES NOTHING TO CLEAN UP THE MESS, which is pretty representative of Tivoli corps behavior since taking over marketing of this first class product. Wanda, Nicely put..I would have used the expletives though. Geoff Gill TSM Administrator NT Systems Support Engineer SAIC E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (858) 826-4062 Pager: (888) 997-9614
Re: Point system has me very confused
I agree. The last time we needed to order more client licenses it was impossible to get someone from Tivoli to even talk to us. We wanted to spend money, but they wouldn't respond to emails or voice mails. I found this amazing! I had to get our local IBM storage rep to contact Tivoli before they would call us back. Just amazing . . . . . . Rick On 11 Dec 2001 at 12:54, Prather, Wanda wrote: And customers are STILL getting different answers, depending on which reseller or Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, a Tivoli office will talk to them at all.) And resellers get different answers, depending on which Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, that a Tivoli office will talk to them at all).
Re: Point system has me very confused
Next time give me a call! I work directly with an IBM distributor so I can get you the best deal. -- Joshua S. Bassi Independent IT Consultant IBM Certified - AIX/HACMP, SAN, Shark Tivoli Certified Consultant- ADSM/TSM Cell (408)(831) 332-4006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Richard L. Rhodes Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused I agree. The last time we needed to order more client licenses it was impossible to get someone from Tivoli to even talk to us. We wanted to spend money, but they wouldn't respond to emails or voice mails. I found this amazing! I had to get our local IBM storage rep to contact Tivoli before they would call us back. Just amazing . . . . . . Rick On 11 Dec 2001 at 12:54, Prather, Wanda wrote: And customers are STILL getting different answers, depending on which reseller or Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, a Tivoli office will talk to them at all.) And resellers get different answers, depending on which Tivoli office they talk to (assuming, of course, that a Tivoli office will talk to them at all).
Re: Point system has me very confused
This is dis-heartening, confusing, agravating, etc. When it comes to unix and Windows-NT/2K/XP I don't know if its a client or a server. And until hearing this I didn't care. Only cared about how much data in how many changed files they were sending me. So when the 5001 free clients are taken away from 3466-NSM's (and you know that's gonna happen if Tivoli gets its way over the hardware division) then we will have to do a lot of work figuring this out. Of course 'we' does not include me. But my management and my succesor is going to be unhappy. sigh ... joe.f. Joseph A Faracchio, Systems Programmer, UC Berkeley Private mail on any topic should be directed to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] (510)642-7638 (w) (209)483-JOEF (M) 5633 99 days until retirement. I hope they don't announce early retirement incentives in 100 days . sigh On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Bill Mansfield wrote: Here's the language from the announcement: A client is a computer system or process that requests a service of another computer system that is typically referred to as a server. Multiple clients may share access to a common server. A client has some processing capability, or is programmable to allow a user to do work. Examples include laptop computers, desktop computers, and desk-side computers. A server is a computer system that provides services to one or more clients, or other devices over a network. Examples include, but are not limited to, file servers, print servers, mail servers, database servers, application servers, and Web servers. A server is defined by its use in the customer's environment, not by its use in a Tivoli application. I take this to mean that clients are machines that do not provide services to other machines. Your (unix?) CAD workstations are probably clients under this definition. Each client would require a four point license. The good news (?) is that your excess points can be allocated to new clients that may come on board. _ William Mansfield Senior Consultant Solution Technology, Inc
Re: Point system has me very confused
Well, I started the thread, so I thought I'd report on my progress since the original post. I've managed to come across a very capable IBM Business Partner and Tivoli Sales rep. It made all the difference in the world. My software and DB2 reps at IBM found the good Tivoli people, and the Tivoli people sent me to the business partner. It is a shame this was so hard because we run DB2 on AIX, which made choosing TSM almost a no brainer. We have had such good luck in dealing with IBM in the past that this really blind sided me. Now I can finally get moving on this project and go back to worrying about backing up my data and keeping my servers running.
Re: Point system has me very confused
In the US what Ted says is true. However, you can buy a bunch of points that are TSM points under a Passport agreement and they may give you a little flexibility on committing/redeploying those points at time of need in a contract provision. -Original Message- From: Ted Byrne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused Dwight, Looking into things you realize that on 20 existing machines you have NEVER use software distribution SO you just drop it from those 20 machines and use the freed points to apply towards TSM client TWS points for your new 12 machines. Unfortunately, I believe that this is not correct. According to the discussions with Tivoli that we've had (as a reseller), the points are transferrable only within the confines of a Product Number. This is true even for products that one might think of as components of the same product. For example, you might have a stable of 10 Unix servers that you're backing up with TDP/Oracle (Product 5698-DPO). Being Tier-2 systems, the list price is 200 points each client, about $62,000 total. Your company announces an acquisition of a company, and in the course of hashing out the details of the transition, it is decided that the merged company will standardize on DB2 as a database platform. In addition, they have 100 Unix web servers that are being backed up with a product that nobody likes. TSM is selected as the standard backup method for the merged company. In our understanding, (someone from Tivoli correct me if I am wrong about this, please!) you may not transfer the 2000 fallow points from your existing 5698-DPO bucket to the 5698-TSM (Managed System - LAN) product that is required to backup your web servers. Total list price: 1500 points, about $46,500. Again, this is how it was explained to us; if someone from Tivoli can correct me, I'd be happy to hear otherwise. Quoting from the Tivoli Quick Quoter tool: Tivoli Points are Product Specific. Ted Byrne
Re: Point system has me very confused
Paul / Steve, By that definition, one would not need a purchased license for workstations since the four-point license is for tier-1 servers. Yet we've had to purchase tier-1 client licenses for ALL of our machines that currently back up to TSM, even the CAD workstations that are about half of our total client count. If what you say is correct, we were ripped off. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram Corporation Seay, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]@VM.MARIST.EDU on 12/09/2001 10:07:03 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused You are correct, that is the definition of workstation vs server. -Original Message- From: Steve Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused As I understand it, if a machine provides a service to other machines then it is a server. If it doesn't then its a workstation. So, in the case of your B50, if the DB2 database is only used by users logged in to that box, its not a server. If its your classic 3 tiered application, but all components run on the B50 then its still a workstation. But if you run an application client on a different machine that connects to the database on the B50, Bingo! its a server. Steve Harris AIX and TSM Admin, Queensland Health, Brisbane Australia Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/12/2001 11:13:05 Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. **
Re: Point system has me very confused
Actually, a tier 1 server is not the workstation client (4-points). The tier 1 server LAN Managed Client is 7 points. Are the CAD Workstations INTEL using Windows (4-point is only available for Macs and them based on what I know)? -Original Message- From: Tab Trepagnier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused Paul / Steve, By that definition, one would not need a purchased license for workstations since the four-point license is for tier-1 servers. Yet we've had to purchase tier-1 client licenses for ALL of our machines that currently back up to TSM, even the CAD workstations that are about half of our total client count. If what you say is correct, we were ripped off. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram Corporation Seay, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]@VM.MARIST.EDU on 12/09/2001 10:07:03 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused You are correct, that is the definition of workstation vs server. -Original Message- From: Steve Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused As I understand it, if a machine provides a service to other machines then it is a server. If it doesn't then its a workstation. So, in the case of your B50, if the DB2 database is only used by users logged in to that box, its not a server. If its your classic 3 tiered application, but all components run on the B50 then its still a workstation. But if you run an application client on a different machine that connects to the database on the B50, Bingo! its a server. Steve Harris AIX and TSM Admin, Queensland Health, Brisbane Australia Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/12/2001 11:13:05 Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. **
Re: Point system has me very confused
Here's the language from the announcement: A client is a computer system or process that requests a service of another computer system that is typically referred to as a server. Multiple clients may share access to a common server. A client has some processing capability, or is programmable to allow a user to do work. Examples include laptop computers, desktop computers, and desk-side computers. A server is a computer system that provides services to one or more clients, or other devices over a network. Examples include, but are not limited to, file servers, print servers, mail servers, database servers, application servers, and Web servers. A server is defined by its use in the customer's environment, not by its use in a Tivoli application. I take this to mean that clients are machines that do not provide services to other machines. Your (unix?) CAD workstations are probably clients under this definition. Each client would require a four point license. The good news (?) is that your excess points can be allocated to new clients that may come on board. _ William Mansfield Senior Consultant Solution Technology, Inc Tab Trepagnier Tab.Trepagnier@LA To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ITRAM.COM cc: Sent by: ADSM: Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] EDU 12/10/2001 03:00 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager Paul / Steve, By that definition, one would not need a purchased license for workstations since the four-point license is for tier-1 servers. Yet we've had to purchase tier-1 client licenses for ALL of our machines that currently back up to TSM, even the CAD workstations that are about half of our total client count. If what you say is correct, we were ripped off. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram Corporation Seay, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]@VM.MARIST.EDU on 12/09/2001 10:07:03 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused You are correct, that is the definition of workstation vs server. -Original Message- From: Steve Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused As I understand it, if a machine provides a service to other machines then it is a server. If it doesn't then its a workstation. So, in the case of your B50, if the DB2 database is only used by users logged in to that box, its not a server. If its your classic 3 tiered application, but all components run on the B50 then its still a workstation. But if you run an application client on a different machine that connects to the database on the B50, Bingo! its a server. Steve Harris AIX and TSM Admin, Queensland Health, Brisbane Australia Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/12/2001 11:13:05 Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone
Re: Point system has me very confused
Actually, I find it straight forward. It is approximately $31 list per point. Each product has a different set of points assigned at a specific tier level but there are only three tiers based on my last contract. Desktop is not in the tier system for Windows at least it is a 4 point device. Tier 1 Intel 32 bit up to and including 4 processors (not workstations, servers) Tier 2 Intel 32 bit over 4 processors, Itanium 1 up to and including 23 processors Tier 2 RISC 1 - 23 processors Tier 3 HP V-Class 14 and up processors Tier 3 RISC 24 and up processors So a simple table will calculate everything. Do not know where you got the 8 processors as the break point unless that is a recent change. -Original Message- From: Jeff Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Point system has me very confused Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files
Re: Point system has me very confused
As I understand it, if a machine provides a service to other machines then it is a server. If it doesn't then its a workstation. So, in the case of your B50, if the DB2 database is only used by users logged in to that box, its not a server. If its your classic 3 tiered application, but all components run on the B50 then its still a workstation. But if you run an application client on a different machine that connects to the database on the B50, Bingo! its a server. Steve Harris AIX and TSM Admin, Queensland Health, Brisbane Australia Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/12/2001 11:13:05 Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. **
Re: Point system has me very confused
You are correct, that is the definition of workstation vs server. -Original Message- From: Steve Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Point system has me very confused As I understand it, if a machine provides a service to other machines then it is a server. If it doesn't then its a workstation. So, in the case of your B50, if the DB2 database is only used by users logged in to that box, its not a server. If its your classic 3 tiered application, but all components run on the B50 then its still a workstation. But if you run an application client on a different machine that connects to the database on the B50, Bingo! its a server. Steve Harris AIX and TSM Admin, Queensland Health, Brisbane Australia Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/12/2001 11:13:05 Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. **
Re: Point system has me very confused
Dwight, Looking into things you realize that on 20 existing machines you have NEVER use software distribution SO you just drop it from those 20 machines and use the freed points to apply towards TSM client TWS points for your new 12 machines. Unfortunately, I believe that this is not correct. According to the discussions with Tivoli that we've had (as a reseller), the points are transferrable only within the confines of a Product Number. This is true even for products that one might think of as components of the same product. For example, you might have a stable of 10 Unix servers that you're backing up with TDP/Oracle (Product 5698-DPO). Being Tier-2 systems, the list price is 200 points each client, about $62,000 total. Your company announces an acquisition of a company, and in the course of hashing out the details of the transition, it is decided that the merged company will standardize on DB2 as a database platform. In addition, they have 100 Unix web servers that are being backed up with a product that nobody likes. TSM is selected as the standard backup method for the merged company. In our understanding, (someone from Tivoli correct me if I am wrong about this, please!) you may not transfer the 2000 fallow points from your existing 5698-DPO bucket to the 5698-TSM (Managed System - LAN) product that is required to backup your web servers. Total list price: 1500 points, about $46,500. Again, this is how it was explained to us; if someone from Tivoli can correct me, I'd be happy to hear otherwise. Quoting from the Tivoli Quick Quoter tool: Tivoli Points are Product Specific. Ted Byrne
Re: Point system has me very confused
Yes, Tivoli has gone out of its way to make the point system confusing; they didn't publish the point counts anywhere for months after the point system was announced, and it's still very hard to get to unless you are working directly with a helpful VAR. But FINALLY, they past summer they set up a Point calculator on the web site, where you can build sample configurations, and it will give you a point count. It's hard to find, and harder to use: http://www.tivoli.com/support/documents/configurator.html But the idea is you type in how many things you want - 1 TSM Tier 1 server, 10 tier 1 clients, 4 tier 2 clients, for example, and it gives you the point count. And by typing 1 as the number you want, you can obviously figure out how many points an individual component requires. Desktop machines are just called clients, rather than Tier 0, BTW. They also (finally) put a configurator on IBMLINK; IF your contract gives you access to the IBMLINK ESD section, you download it, install it, and run it on your PC. It is easier to use, in my opinion, than the website. It works no matter whether you plan to run your TSM server on an RS6000, Windows, or OS/390. (BTW, if you have never used IBMLINK but your company owns a mainframe, call your mainframe sysprogs and ask them; they may have access.) ·Log in to IBMLINK ·Go to the ESD section ·Select RS6000CONFIGS ·Select RS6000Win95 ·Download all the parts to a directory on your desktop and follow the install instructions (you just click on self-extracting files, it's very fast) Fill in the blanks for your planned configuration, and it will give you a point count. It works better than the web version, in my opinion. Re your question; a desktop (Linux, Wintel, Mac) workstation is just called a CLIENT, instead of Tier 0. Windows servers less than 5 processors are Tier 1; windows 4 processors and UNIX = 4 processors are Tier 2. In the configurator, if you say you want 1 TSM server on a Tier 2 processor, the configurator will tell you how many points that costs. Also, the TDP agents cost more points depending on which Tier the machine is in: TDP for Oracle on UNIX costs 5 times as many points as TDP for Oracle on Windows. To use the configurator, it will help if you have the original announcement letter that gives the part numbers for the TSM components - that is announcement letter 200-245. You can get that from the free section of IBMLINK. It also helps to know that when selecting TSM clients in the configurator, they are now called Managed System for Lan , or managed System for San, not client licenses. HOpe that helps... -Original Message- From: Jeff Rogers To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/7/2001 8:13 PM Subject: Point system has me very confused Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files
Point system has me very confused
Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files
Re: Point system has me very confused
The big thing behind the point system is that you buy a bunch of Tivoli points. Now, you have them all sucked up in TSM, TWS (workload scheduler) and software distribution. You now expand your data center but a dozen machines but you've used up all your points and you don't want to buy any more. Looking into things you realize that on 20 existing machines you have NEVER use software distribution SO you just drop it from those 20 machines and use the freed points to apply towards TSM client TWS points for your new 12 machines. (I don't know the exact value of each of the products so I don't know if my comparison is anywhere near accurate) but you get the gist of things... and as far as old machines go... the cost of support of older machines is just another way to justify to management that they would be way ahead if they would just give that old piece of #@$%^ to you and let you take it home just to get it out of there ;-) later, Dwight -Original Message- From: Jeff Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 7:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Point system has me very confused Can somebody help me to understand this point/tier system. It understand that sharing Tivoli pricing information is some kind of no-no, so please feel free to reply off-list. What I think I understand so far. Workstation Clients ??? Tier 1 - 1 ~ 4 processors on Intel 32bit hardware. Tier 2 - RISC or Intel 64bit - I assume 5 ~ 8 processor 32bit Intel boxes as well. Tier 3 - Greater than 8 processor?? In Tivoli pricing land, what is considered a server. For example, I don't think an RS/6000 Model B50 (piece of junk) with a 9GB drive used for development work should be a Tier 2 machine. I don't even consider it a Tier 1 machine. Even though it runs DB2, it is basically a workstation. How many points is each tier worth, and where do normal workstation machines fit in? How many points is the TSM server itself? on a tier 1 (NT) server? on a tier 2 (AIX) server? How many points are the Data Protection products, specifically Domino? What about DB2, do you just buy enough points to cover the tier of the machine? Even if there is no plan to backup files
