date:20200131

Found some errors in a log.

Apparently this requires cookies to be enabled and for whatever reason, it
appears cookies weren't working, possibly something with safe mode in
firefox.   Oddly enough, mine is fine here even in safe mode, unless I
block cookies for the ticketing system, then it fails in the exact same way
you described.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like a champ in Chrome. As
> long as I know there is in fact a confirmation, i'll know what to look for
> if I need to submit another ticket.
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Really odd...
>>
>> Works here...  See
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be
>>
>> Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be
>> getting in the way?
>>
>> FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php
>>>
>>> Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to
>>> http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using
>>> this email.
>>> I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you
 used?   I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.

 The only ticket I see from you is back in November.

 On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
 wrote:

> I've created two different tickets via their support page but never
> received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I
> assumed it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not
> creating an outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.
>>
>> You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer,
>> they usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in
>> here on the list.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it
>>> disrupt service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --
 - Forrest
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Simon Westlake

It's interesting to me how many people are looking at the CoDeL piece of
Preseem first - their original vision (and what I still think is the most
interesting) is the direct TCP monitoring they do to try to figure out
which APs have issues, which customers have issues, and what the root
causes of those issues are. The CoDeL piece was just a cherry on top.

The CoDeL piece isn't very hard (if you're not worried about scaling it
very far) but the monitoring and diagnostic tools they have are, I think,
fantastic. I've never heard anyone not rave about them, and I know tons of
people using them.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:06 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> ISP Radio did an interview with them and it’s still on Youtube.  2 years
> old though.
>
> https://www.preseem.com/2018/04/isp-radio-subscriber-queues-latency/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 12:41 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>
>
>
> Others probably know better.  I think some of the other tools are DPI
> based where Preseem is FQ-CoDel, but I am not sure that is true of
> Procera.   Others integrate to the CRM systems, so I am not sure that is a
> differentiator.   Might be best to hit Preseem up directly on that
> question.   From our experience, they are  not high pressure or
> exaggerative, so you wouldn’t be opening a can of worms you can’t get the
> lid back on.  But maybe someone has done a more in depth investigation of
> the two.  Sorry, wasn’t much help on the question.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 11:48 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>
>
>
> How does Preseem compare to Procera?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a
> tool I will never give up. It's worth every penny
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally
> implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and
> potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA
> costs.   I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own
> with open source.
>
> However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the
> customer experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond
> awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers
> complaints.   Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our
> typical day goes something like this:
> 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower
> latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points,
> we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over
> certain latency thresholds)
> 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if
> they are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP
> based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has
> changed or if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major
> windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose
> latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an
> issue with their dish.
> 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we
> check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is
> their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More
> often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under
> load, and only at certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on
> the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a
> crappy connection to their wifi router in the house.
>
> We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We
> bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting
> activities.   Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have
> access to some pretty smart folks.
>
> Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever
> goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were
> having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer
> to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others
> in the same DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way
> you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this
> person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the
> time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You
> were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency".
>
> Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it
> is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time

Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

Billing platform:

(cooing also)

From: AF  On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

Haven’t used VISP so I’m unfamiliar.  But I would highly recommend sonar.

We Started on platypus, migrated to powercode.  We were on powercode for a 
little over a year and although it was an upgrade from platypus it still didn’t 
meet our needs.  at the time they didn’t have RADIUS implemented which platypus 
did so we were basically running both side by side which was a PITA.  

Migrated to sonar a couple years ago and haven’t looked back.  They are a very 
forward thinking company and are quick to fix issues and add new features.  
Sonar also integrates with a ton of external tools like text messaging etc.

I would highly recommend sonar.  But like I said we’ve never tried VISP so I’m 
unfamiliar with it.

2 cents

-Sean

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:58 PM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:
>
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a year 
> ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar was more trouble 
> than we expected, but graphing and other items are better.   Powercode is 
> faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable 
> than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to 
> Preseem and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy.  
> Overall, we are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination.  We have some 
> ongoing problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term 
> move.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com    |  
> Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com    |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
> Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  www.advantenon.com 
>    |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com  
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
>
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> What is everyone using?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Sean Heskett

Haven’t used VISP so I’m unfamiliar.  But I would highly recommend sonar.

We Started on platypus, migrated to powercode.  We were on powercode for a
little over a year and although it was an upgrade from platypus it still
didn’t meet our needs.  at the time they didn’t have RADIUS implemented
which platypus did so we were basically running both side by side which was
a PITA.

Migrated to sonar a couple years ago and haven’t looked back.  They are a
very forward thinking company and are quick to fix issues and add new
features.  Sonar also integrates with a ton of external tools like text
messaging etc.

I would highly recommend sonar.  But like I said we’ve never tried VISP so
I’m unfamiliar with it.

2 cents

-Sean


On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:58 PM Matt  wrote:

> Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
> for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
> now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
>  wrote:
> >
> > We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a
> year ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar was more
> trouble than we expected, but graphing and other items are better.
>  Powercode is faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes were always
> more reliable than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy,
> but we moved to Preseem and the integration through Preseem is very clean
> and very easy.  Overall, we are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem
> combination.  We have some ongoing problem points with Sonar, but feel like
> we made the right long term move.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David Coudron
> > david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
> >
> > Advantenon, Inc.
> > i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local:
> 612-454-1545
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
> >
> > Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> > What is everyone using?
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Matt Hoppes


+2 for Powercode here.

On 1/31/20 7:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

https://app.visp.net/



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Daniel Moore" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, January 31, 2020 4:46:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

VISP is built on Java. Not JS, but Java.  Java is dated.

*From: *AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Friday, January 31, 2020 at 4:40 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

I think your view of VISP is very dated.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Daniel Moore" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, January 31, 2020 4:37:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

You can't really compare Sonar to VISP IMO, that is not fair to either 
company.
VISP is very old and does not do much more than billing.  If you need 
your hand held, VISP is the go to billing system.

Sonar is new, and is probably what you want to heavily consider using.

On 1/31/20, 2:58 PM, "AF on behalf of Matt" behalf of matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> wrote:


     Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
     for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
     now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?


     On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
      wrote:
     >
     > We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little 
over a year ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar 
was more trouble than we expected, but graphing and other items are 
better.   Powercode is faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes 
were always more reliable than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through 
Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to Preseem and the integration through 
Preseem is very clean and very easy.  Overall, we are happy with the 
Sonar plus Preseem combination.  We have some ongoing problem points 
with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term move.

     >
     > Regards,
     >
     > David Coudron
     > david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
     >
     > Advantenon, Inc.
     > i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, 
Plymouth, MN 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  | 
  Local: 612-454-1545

     >
     >
     >
     > -Original Message-
     > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
     > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
     > To: af@af.afmug.com
     > Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
     >
     > Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
     > What is everyone using?
     >
     > --
     > AF mailing list
     > AF@af.afmug.com
     > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
     >
     > --
     > AF mailing list
     > AF@af.afmug.com
     > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

     --
     AF mailing list
     AF@af.afmug.com
     http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Mike Hammett

https://app.visp.net/ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Daniel Moore"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:46:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 



VISP is built on Java. Not JS, but Java. Java is dated. 


From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett  
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Date: Friday, January 31, 2020 at 4:40 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 



I think your view of VISP is very dated. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Daniel Moore"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:37:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 

You can't really compare Sonar to VISP IMO, that is not fair to either company. 
VISP is very old and does not do much more than billing. If you need your hand 
held, VISP is the go to billing system. 
Sonar is new, and is probably what you want to heavily consider using. 

On 1/31/20, 2:58 PM, "AF on behalf of Matt"  wrote: 

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority 
for us again. We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right 
now. How would Sonar compare to VISP? 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron 
 wrote: 
> 
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a year 
> ago. Both worked well. Inventory management under Sonar was more trouble than 
> we expected, but graphing and other items are better. Powercode is faster, 
> you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable than 
> Sonar. Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to Preseem 
> and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy. Overall, we 
> are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination. We have some ongoing 
> problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term move. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> David Coudron 
> david.coud...@advantenon.com | Mobile: 612-991-7474 
> 
> Advantenon, Inc. 
> i...@advantenon.com | 3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447 | 
> www.advantenon.com | Phone: 800-704-4720 | Local: 612-454-1545 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt 
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM 
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 
> 
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform. 
> What is everyone using? 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list 
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list 
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Daniel Moore

VISP is built on Java. Not JS, but Java.  Java is dated.

From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, January 31, 2020 at 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

I think your view of VISP is very dated.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Daniel Moore" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:37:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

You can't really compare Sonar to VISP IMO, that is not fair to either company.
VISP is very old and does not do much more than billing.  If you need your hand 
held, VISP is the go to billing system.
Sonar is new, and is probably what you want to heavily consider using.

On 1/31/20, 2:58 PM, "AF on behalf of Matt"  wrote:

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
 wrote:
>
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a 
year ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar was more 
trouble than we expected, but graphing and other items are better.   Powercode 
is faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable 
than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to 
Preseem and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy.  
Overall, we are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination.  We have some 
ongoing problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term 
move.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 
55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
>
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> What is everyone using?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Mike Hammett

I think your view of VISP is very dated. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Daniel Moore"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:37:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 

You can't really compare Sonar to VISP IMO, that is not fair to either company. 
VISP is very old and does not do much more than billing. If you need your hand 
held, VISP is the go to billing system. 
Sonar is new, and is probably what you want to heavily consider using. 

On 1/31/20, 2:58 PM, "AF on behalf of Matt"  wrote: 

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority 
for us again. We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right 
now. How would Sonar compare to VISP? 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron 
 wrote: 
> 
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a year 
> ago. Both worked well. Inventory management under Sonar was more trouble than 
> we expected, but graphing and other items are better. Powercode is faster, 
> you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable than 
> Sonar. Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to Preseem 
> and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy. Overall, we 
> are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination. We have some ongoing 
> problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term move. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> David Coudron 
> david.coud...@advantenon.com | Mobile: 612-991-7474 
> 
> Advantenon, Inc. 
> i...@advantenon.com | 3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447 | 
> www.advantenon.com | Phone: 800-704-4720 | Local: 612-454-1545 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt 
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM 
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform 
> 
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform. 
> What is everyone using? 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Daniel Moore

You can't really compare Sonar to VISP IMO, that is not fair to either company. 
 
VISP is very old and does not do much more than billing.  If you need your hand 
held, VISP is the go to billing system.
Sonar is new, and is probably what you want to heavily consider using. 

On 1/31/20, 2:58 PM, "AF on behalf of Matt"  wrote:

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
 wrote:
>
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a 
year ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar was more 
trouble than we expected, but graphing and other items are better.   Powercode 
is faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable 
than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to 
Preseem and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy.  
Overall, we are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination.  We have some 
ongoing problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term 
move.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 
55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
>
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> What is everyone using?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

2020-01-31 Thread Matt

Waking this thread up a bit since I have been told it is a priority
for us again.  We use a in house built PHP/MySQL application right
now.  How would Sonar compare to VISP?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:34 PM David Coudron
 wrote:
>
> We were originally using Powercode but switched to Sonar a little over a year 
> ago.   Both worked well.   Inventory management under Sonar was more trouble 
> than we expected, but graphing and other items are better.   Powercode is 
> faster, you can sort lists better, and the probes were always more reliable 
> than Sonar.   Sonar's integration through Mikrotik is messy, but we moved to 
> Preseem and the integration through Preseem is very clean and very easy.  
> Overall, we are happy with the Sonar plus Preseem combination.  We have some 
> ongoing problem points with Sonar, but feel like we made the right long term 
> move.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  
> |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:38 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Billing Platform
>
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> What is everyone using?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

ISP Radio did an interview with them and it’s still on Youtube.  2 years old 
though.

https://www.preseem.com/2018/04/isp-radio-subscriber-queues-latency/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

Others probably know better.  I think some of the other tools are DPI based 
where Preseem is FQ-CoDel, but I am not sure that is true of Procera.   Others 
integrate to the CRM systems, so I am not sure that is a differentiator.   
Might be best to hit Preseem up directly on that question.   From our 
experience, they are  not high pressure or exaggerative, so you wouldn’t be 
opening a can of worms you can’t get the lid back on.  But maybe someone has 
done a more in depth investigation of the two.  Sorry, wasn’t much help on the 
question.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:48 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

How does Preseem compare to Procera?

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a tool I 
will never give up. It's worth every penny 

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.  

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.   

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.   

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened 
and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps 
plan with 50 ms latency".

Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it is 
not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing 
it so hard.   

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com    |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474
 
Advantenon, Inc.
i...@advantenon.com    |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  www.advantenon.com 
   |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545 



-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I think they have integration

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread David Coudron

Others probably know better.  I think some of the other tools are DPI based 
where Preseem is FQ-CoDel, but I am not sure that is true of Procera.   Others 
integrate to the CRM systems, so I am not sure that is a differentiator.   
Might be best to hit Preseem up directly on that question.   From our 
experience, they are  not high pressure or exaggerative, so you wouldn’t be 
opening a can of worms you can’t get the lid back on.  But maybe someone has 
done a more in depth investigation of the two.  Sorry, wasn’t much help on the 
question.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:48 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

How does Preseem compare to Procera?

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl 
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a tool I 
will never give up. It's worth every penny

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened 
and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps 
plan with 50 ms latency".

Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it is 
not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing 
it so hard.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc.
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  www.advantenon.com 
 |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545



-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.

You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to deal 
with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles to someone 
else.

I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I know 
that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but it's more 
worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do something else.

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium PPPoE and QoS

Thanks.  I've been meaning to test.  I still intend to test, but I 
wondered if it was already a known quantity.



On 1/31/2020 1:16 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If a customer has our VoIP we almost always put it outside the PPPoE, 
but I just checked a customer that I know has VoIP hosted elsewhere 
and we have a Hi Priority channel enabled for their SM.  The AP stats 
are showing the byte counters incrementing for that LUID.  So I think 
the answer is yes, somehow it is seeing the QoS tags despite being 
inside PPPoE.


We don’t use PPPoE in the SM, so I can’t verify that.  But I would 
think if it works with PPPoE on the customer’s router, it should also 
work with PPPoE in the SM.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 11:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium PPPoE and QoS

bump

anybody?



 Forwarded Message 

*Subject: *



Cambium PPPoE and QoS

*Date: *



Tue, 28 Jan 2020 15:54:19 -0500

*From: *



Adam Moffett  

*To: *



AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  





If you're marking traffic with DSCP tags to use the high priority 
channel in a PMP450 system, will that be broken if you start doing 
PPPoE?  Or does the AP look for DSCP tags inside the PPPoE session?


Does it make any difference if the PPPoE client is on the SM vs being 
on a Router past the SM?



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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium PPPoE and QoS

If a customer has our VoIP we almost always put it outside the PPPoE, but I 
just checked a customer that I know has VoIP hosted elsewhere and we have a Hi 
Priority channel enabled for their SM.  The AP stats are showing the byte 
counters incrementing for that LUID.  So I think the answer is yes, somehow it 
is seeing the QoS tags despite being inside PPPoE.

 

We don’t use PPPoE in the SM, so I can’t verify that.  But I would think if it 
works with PPPoE on the customer’s router, it should also work with PPPoE in 
the SM.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:28 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium PPPoE and QoS

 

bump

anybody?



 Forwarded Message  


Subject: 

Cambium PPPoE and QoS


Date: 

Tue, 28 Jan 2020 15:54:19 -0500


From: 

Adam Moffett   


To: 

AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   



If you're marking traffic with DSCP tags to use the high priority channel in a 
PMP450 system, will that be broken if you start doing PPPoE?  Or does the AP 
look for DSCP tags inside the PPPoE session?

Does it make any difference if the PPPoE client is on the SM vs being on a 
Router past the SM?



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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Dan Spitler

You know, maybe I was thinking of Procera not Preseem with regards to TCP
monitoring

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:57 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Can you imagine doing coding back in these days:
>
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/a-deep-dive-into-the-apollo-guidance-computer-and-the-hack-that-saved-apollo-14/
>
> Talk about both time and hardware constraints, oh and people die if you
> screw up.  I wonder what their effective cost per hour (or line of code)
> was.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:39 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>
> When I was a wee lad working at my first real engineering job in nuclear
> power, my boss had me sit down and figure out what my actual self-cost was
> as my very first job for him.   I came up with a number like $22/hour.  He
> then showed me what my actual overhead number was, and it came out to like
> $58 for the company and he told me that the company would be billing me out
> at over $100.  I was astonished.   So it's an exercise I still do.   Now I
> am at about $95 all up cost.   Much of the work I do is at a loss against
> that, but I make it up in bulk, LOL. But the time value of money is more
> like $450 right now.   The hours left in life are getting shorter, bank
> assets are getting longer. Spend more time on fun than work.
>
> On 1/31/20 8:41 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
> >
> > You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have
> > to deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my
> > troubles to someone else.
> >
> > I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I
> > know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp,
> > but it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I
> > can do something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
> >
> > I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle
> > where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to
> > do some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value
> > too.
> >
> > -Adam
> >
> >
> > On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
> >> I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what
> >> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there
> >> anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying
> >> open source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware,
> >> which we already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box
> >> with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other
> >> than that?
> >
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

Can you imagine doing coding back in these days:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/a-deep-dive-into-the-apollo-guidance-computer-and-the-hack-that-saved-apollo-14/

Talk about both time and hardware constraints, oh and people die if you screw 
up.  I wonder what their effective cost per hour (or line of code) was.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

When I was a wee lad working at my first real engineering job in nuclear power, 
my boss had me sit down and figure out what my actual self-cost was as my very 
first job for him.   I came up with a number like $22/hour.  He then showed me 
what my actual overhead number was, and it came out to like $58 for the company 
and he told me that the company would be billing me out at over $100.  I was 
astonished.   So it's an exercise I still do.   Now I am at about $95 all up 
cost.   Much of the work I do is at a loss against that, but I make it up in 
bulk, LOL. But the time value of money is more like $450 right now.   The hours 
left in life are getting shorter, bank assets are getting longer. Spend more 
time on fun than work.

On 1/31/20 8:41 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
>
> You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have 
> to deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my 
> troubles to someone else.
>
> I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I 
> know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, 
> but it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I 
> can do something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
>
> I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle 
> where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to 
> do some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value 
> too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
>> I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what 
>> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there 
>> anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying 
>> open source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, 
>> which we already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box 
>> with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other 
>> than that?
>

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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Jason McKemie

Or I guess more appropriately now, Sandvine / Procera.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:48 AM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> How does Preseem compare to Procera?
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a
>> tool I will never give up. It's worth every penny
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron <
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally
>>> implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and
>>> potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA
>>> costs.   I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own
>>> with open source.
>>>
>>> However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the
>>> customer experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond
>>> awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers
>>> complaints.   Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our
>>> typical day goes something like this:
>>> 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of
>>> tower latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access
>>> points, we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers
>>> over certain latency thresholds)
>>> 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if
>>> they are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP
>>> based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has
>>> changed or if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major
>>> windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose
>>> latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an
>>> issue with their dish.
>>> 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK,
>>> we check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.
>>>  Is their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More
>>> often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under
>>> load, and only at certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on
>>> the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a
>>> crappy connection to their wifi router in the house.
>>>
>>> We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.
>>>  We bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting
>>> activities.   Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have
>>> access to some pretty smart folks.
>>>
>>> Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever
>>> goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were
>>> having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer
>>> to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others
>>> in the same DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way
>>> you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this
>>> person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the
>>> time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You
>>> were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency".
>>>
>>> Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide
>>> it is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they
>>> are pushing it so hard.
>>>
>>> David Coudron
>>> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>>>
>>> Advantenon, Inc.
>>> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
>>> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local:
>>> 612-454-1545
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>>>
>>> I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
>>>
>>> You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to
>>> deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles
>>> to someone else.
>>>
>>> I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I
>>> know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but
>>> it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do
>>> something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
>>>
>>> I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle
>>> where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do
>>> some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
>>> > I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what
>>> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Jason McKemie

How does Preseem compare to Procera?

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a
> tool I will never give up. It's worth every penny
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
>> We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally
>> implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and
>> potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA
>> costs.   I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own
>> with open source.
>>
>> However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the
>> customer experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond
>> awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers
>> complaints.   Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our
>> typical day goes something like this:
>> 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of
>> tower latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access
>> points, we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers
>> over certain latency thresholds)
>> 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if
>> they are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP
>> based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has
>> changed or if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major
>> windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose
>> latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an
>> issue with their dish.
>> 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we
>> check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is
>> their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More
>> often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under
>> load, and only at certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on
>> the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a
>> crappy connection to their wifi router in the house.
>>
>> We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We
>> bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting
>> activities.   Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have
>> access to some pretty smart folks.
>>
>> Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever
>> goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were
>> having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer
>> to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others
>> in the same DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way
>> you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this
>> person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the
>> time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You
>> were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency".
>>
>> Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it
>> is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are
>> pushing it so hard.
>>
>> David Coudron
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>>
>> Advantenon, Inc.
>> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
>> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local:
>> 612-454-1545
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>>
>> I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
>>
>> You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to
>> deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles
>> to someone else.
>>
>> I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I
>> know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but
>> it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do
>> something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
>>
>> I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle
>> where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do
>> some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
>> > I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what
>> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there
>> anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying open
>> source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we
>> already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box with a few
>> ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I’m not sure I want a ton more WISPs to sign up with them.  Their support is 
very good, and if they get a bunch more customers, they will either have to 
hire a bunch more people or start outsourcing like everybody else.

 

On the other hand, they’re not getting rich on just what they charge me, so 
maybe I do need more people to sign up so they stay in business.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

There are others on here that can explain it far better than me.   However, 
here’s a shot:

 

1.  The Preseem system doesn’t use Deep Packet Inspection.   It uses 
FQ-CoDel to manage the queues to ensure better experience for the customer.
So they can prioritize traffic that needs instant response like clicking a link 
on a web page versus filling the buffer on the Netflix client.
2.  Customers are soft limited to their plan amounts.   By this I mean that 
their traffic is managed more as they approach their plan limits which reduces 
the abrupt web page not responding types if issues if their streaming is 
gobbling up their connection.
3.  Customer speed plans are managed in the Preseem appliance rather than 
Mikrotik queues.   This is significantly simpler when integrating with Sonar, 
Powercode and others.   Very much a plug and play installation

I know there is more to this technically, but I wouldn’t do a good job of 
diving into it as we didn’t need/want to get that deep into it.   We just 
needed to confirm it did what they claimed.

 

Again, we bought it for the traffic shaping, but the pleasant surprise was the 
troubleshooting tools with it.   I think our surprise wasn’t that we got some 
extra tools, but how accurate and useful they were.   It is hard to oversell 
that.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Dan Spitler
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

I'm more interested in the QoE monitoring. I'm guessing it looks at TCP 
performance? How does it do it? Deep packet inspection? Seems tough to do 
without overwhelming the server or increasing latency significantly.

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:03 AM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.  

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.   

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.   

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Robert

When I was a wee lad working at my first real engineering job in nuclear 
power, my boss had me sit down and figure out what my actual self-cost 
was as my very first job for him.   I came up with a number like 
$22/hour.  He then showed me what my actual overhead number was, and it 
came out to like $58 for the company and he told me that the company 
would be billing me out at over $100.  I was astonished.   So it's an 
exercise I still do.   Now I am at about $95 all up cost.   Much of the 
work I do is at a loss against that, but I make it up in bulk, LOL.   
But the time value of money is more like $450 right now.   The hours 
left in life are getting shorter, bank assets are getting longer.   
Spend more time on fun than work.


On 1/31/20 8:41 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.

You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have 
to deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my 
troubles to someone else.


I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I 
know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, 
but it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I 
can do something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.


I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle 
where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to 
do some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value 
too.


-Adam


On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what 
seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there 
anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying 
open source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, 
which we already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box 
with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other 
than that?





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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

No DPI.  Uses flow behavior and active queue management.  If it acts 
interactive, it is treated as such.  If it acts like a bulk flow, it is treated 
as such.  I assume it’s smart enough that if Netflix opens up 4 parallel TCP 
connections from different ports numbers or different IP addresses, it’s 
treated as one flow, but I don’t know the nuts and bolts well enough to say.

 

But it’s not going to give you analytics or have you create policies for 
Netflix vs Disney+ vs Windows Update.  Or streaming vs gaming vs VoIP.  That is 
implicit not explicit.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dan Spitler
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

I'm more interested in the QoE monitoring. I'm guessing it looks at TCP 
performance? How does it do it? Deep packet inspection? Seems tough to do 
without overwhelming the server or increasing latency significantly.

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:03 AM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.  

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.   

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.   

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened 
and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps 
plan with 50 ms latency".

Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it is 
not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing 
it so hard.   

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com    |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474
 
Advantenon, Inc.
i...@advantenon.com    |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  www.advantenon.com 
   |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545 



-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.

You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to deal 
with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles to someone 
else.

I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I know 
that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but it's more 
worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do something

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread David Coudron

There are others on here that can explain it far better than me.   However, 
here’s a shot:


  1.  The Preseem system doesn’t use Deep Packet Inspection.   It uses FQ-CoDel 
to manage the queues to ensure better experience for the customer.So they 
can prioritize traffic that needs instant response like clicking a link on a 
web page versus filling the buffer on the Netflix client.
  2.  Customers are soft limited to their plan amounts.   By this I mean that 
their traffic is managed more as they approach their plan limits which reduces 
the abrupt web page not responding types if issues if their streaming is 
gobbling up their connection.
  3.  Customer speed plans are managed in the Preseem appliance rather than 
Mikrotik queues.   This is significantly simpler when integrating with Sonar, 
Powercode and others.   Very much a plug and play installation
I know there is more to this technically, but I wouldn’t do a good job of 
diving into it as we didn’t need/want to get that deep into it.   We just 
needed to confirm it did what they claimed.

Again, we bought it for the traffic shaping, but the pleasant surprise was the 
troubleshooting tools with it.   I think our surprise wasn’t that we got some 
extra tools, but how accurate and useful they were.   It is hard to oversell 
that.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF  On Behalf Of Dan Spitler
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I'm more interested in the QoE monitoring. I'm guessing it looks at TCP 
performance? How does it do it? Deep packet inspection? Seems tough to do 
without overwhelming the server or increasing latency significantly.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:03 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened 
and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps 
plan with 50 ms latency".

Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it is 
not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing 
it so hard.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc.
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |

[AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium PPPoE and QoS

bump

anybody?

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Cambium PPPoE and QoS
Date:   Tue, 28 Jan 2020 15:54:19 -0500
From:   Adam Moffett 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

If you're marking traffic with DSCP tags to use the high priority 
channel in a PMP450 system, will that be broken if you start doing 
PPPoE?  Or does the AP look for DSCP tags inside the PPPoE session?

Does it make any difference if the PPPoE client is on the SM vs being on 
a Router past the SM?

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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

Mike brings up a good point about integration.

 

It found all our Cambium APs and pulled all sorts of information from them and 
figured out which customers were on which APs, without us doing anything.

 

We use PPPoE and dynamic pools and they use the Mikrotik API to map PPPoE 
sessions to customer IP addresses.  Very minimal work on our part to give the 
Preseem appliance access to the Mikrotik API, and it just worked.

 

And we don’t even use Sonar, if we did, they have integration with Sonar and it 
could pull stuff like customer speed plans and DHCP assignments.

  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

 

Please send a fresh e-mail when starting a new thread.

 

Anybody can do nearly anything most of the manufacturers do with a $300 PC, 
open source software, and sufficient time.

 

A) Is it worth your time instead of just paying them?

B) Are you qualified to maintain the implementation?

C) Is the user experience as nice?

D) Have you built all of the integrations they have?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Dev" mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:34:39 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem like 
expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything else 
interesting about their technology besides deploying open source implementation 
of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do to great effect 
on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty 
dashboard, anyhing other than that?
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Darin Steffl

I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a
tool I will never give up. It's worth every penny

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally
> implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and
> potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA
> costs.   I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own
> with open source.
>
> However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the
> customer experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond
> awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers
> complaints.   Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our
> typical day goes something like this:
> 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower
> latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points,
> we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over
> certain latency thresholds)
> 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if
> they are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP
> based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has
> changed or if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major
> windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose
> latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an
> issue with their dish.
> 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we
> check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is
> their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More
> often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under
> load, and only at certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on
> the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a
> crappy connection to their wifi router in the house.
>
> We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We
> bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting
> activities.   Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have
> access to some pretty smart folks.
>
> Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever
> goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were
> having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer
> to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others
> in the same DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way
> you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this
> person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the
> time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You
> were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency".
>
> Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it
> is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are
> pushing it so hard.
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local:
> 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>
> I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
>
> You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to
> deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles
> to someone else.
>
> I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I
> know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but
> it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do
> something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
>
> I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle where
> there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do some
> more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
> > I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what
> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there
> anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying open
> source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we
> already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box with a few
> ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other than that?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Dan Spitler

I'm more interested in the QoE monitoring. I'm guessing it looks at TCP
performance? How does it do it? Deep packet inspection? Seems tough to do
without overwhelming the server or increasing latency significantly.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:03 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally
> implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and
> potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA
> costs.   I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own
> with open source.
>
> However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the
> customer experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond
> awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers
> complaints.   Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our
> typical day goes something like this:
> 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower
> latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points,
> we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over
> certain latency thresholds)
> 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if
> they are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP
> based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has
> changed or if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major
> windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose
> latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an
> issue with their dish.
> 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we
> check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is
> their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More
> often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under
> load, and only at certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on
> the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a
> crappy connection to their wifi router in the house.
>
> We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We
> bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting
> activities.   Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have
> access to some pretty smart folks.
>
> Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever
> goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were
> having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer
> to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others
> in the same DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way
> you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this
> person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the
> time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You
> were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency".
>
> Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it
> is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are
> pushing it so hard.
>
> David Coudron
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
>
> Advantenon, Inc.
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local:
> 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat
>
> I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.
>
> You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to
> deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles
> to someone else.
>
> I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I
> know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but
> it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do
> something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.
>
> I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle where
> there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do some
> more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
> > I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what
> seem like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there
> anything else interesting about their technology besides deploying open
> source implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we
> already do to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box with a few
> ports? I guess they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other than that?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread David Coudron

We have been using Preseem for about a year now.   We originally implemented it 
as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better 
use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs.   I am guessing 
someone could build a similar product on their own with open source.  

However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer 
experience management with the tool.   The reporting is beyond awesome, it has 
become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints.   Others 
on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes 
something like this:
1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower 
latency yesterday.  If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we 
look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain 
latency thresholds)
2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they 
are experiencing latency issues.   If they are, we check our SNMP based 
monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or 
if the AP is experience issues.   We had a pretty major windstorm go through 
two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and 
investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish.
3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check 
into the experience of that customer to others on their tower.   Is their 
latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc.   More often than 
not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at 
certain times.  It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back 
upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their 
wifi router in the house.   

We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing.   We 
bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities.  
 Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some 
pretty smart folks.   

Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes 
down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool".   We were having a 
discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other 
customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same 
DIA, etc.   It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about 
the "My Internet is slow" complaint.  Quite often this person will get a call 
about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened 
and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps 
plan with 50 ms latency".

Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit.   You may not decide it is 
not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing 
it so hard.   

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc.    
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  | 
 www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545 

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.

You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to deal 
with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles to someone 
else.

I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I know 
that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but it's more 
worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do something else.  
Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.

I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle where 
there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do some more 
DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.

-Adam

On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:
> I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem 
> like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything 
> else interesting about their technology besides deploying open source 
> implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do 
> to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess 
> they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other than that?

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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Matt

Keep hoping that Mikrotik v7 will have codel.  If you look at there
forum many requests for it.

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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Seth Mattinen





On 1/31/20 8:49 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Well, yes, but you will probably dismiss it as stuff you can implement yourself plus a 
"pretty dashboard".  Most stuff these days is based on Linux and cloud 
management, and it's a question of whether you want to pay someone to do it, or spend 
your own time on development and maintenance.  You could dismiss Sonar or cnMaestro as 
just a pretty dashboard, but I don't think that's fair.



I've become old enough that I appreciate the time savings that buying a 
thing can offer more now than when I was younger. There was a time when 
I'd stand up a custom server and install linux just to have a file 
server, now I'll just buy a Synology so I can spend time on other things 
since. Also back when I was first building linux file servers there 
weren't any linux-based NAS appliances, but now there are so that's a 
task I can skip if I choose to.


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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

2020-01-31 Thread Craig Schmaderer

How did I know you would through that commit in.   

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:51 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Netscape still does the job for me...

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 8:41 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Sadly I am finding more and more stuff only works in Chrome, not Edge or 
Firefox.  Don’t know about Safari or the new Chromium based Edge.

I assume this is because browsing is now done mostly on mobile devices, which 
run iOS or Android, so websites are designed for Safari and Chrome.  I assume 
that’s why Microsoft threw in the towel and went to the Chromium rendering 
engine.

Not saying that’s the issue in this case.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:19 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

10 times out of 9, I've found these kind of issues solved by clearing cache.

bp

On 1/31/2020 7:15 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like a champ in Chrome. As long 
as I know there is in fact a confirmation, i'll know what to look for if I need 
to submit another ticket.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
Really odd...

Works here...  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be

Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be getting in 
the way?

FYI, you can also send an email into 
cust...@packetflux.com

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen 
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php

Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to 
http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using this 
email.
I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you used?   I 
just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.

The only ticket I see from you is back in November.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've created two different tickets via their support page but never received a 
confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I assumed it was 
broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not creating an outage. I 
just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett 
mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.

You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they usually 
respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here on the list.

-Sean

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it disrupt service 
to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat


I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar.

You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago.  The more stuff I have to 
deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my 
troubles to someone else.


I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace.  I 
know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but 
it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do 
something else.  Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box.


I'm not knocking your method.  There's a point in the business cycle 
where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do 
some more DIY things.  I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too.


-Adam


On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote:

I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem like 
expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything else 
interesting about their technology besides deploying open source implementation 
of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do to great effect 
on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty 
dashboard, anyhing other than that?


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Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Mike Hammett

Please send a fresh e-mail when starting a new thread. 


Anybody can do nearly anything most of the manufacturers do with a $300 PC, 
open source software, and sufficient time. 


A) Is it worth your time instead of just paying them? 
B) Are you qualified to maintain the implementation? 
C) Is the user experience as nice? 
D) Have you built all of the integrations they have? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Dev"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:34:39 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] bufferbloat 

I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem like 
expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything else 
interesting about their technology besides deploying open source implementation 
of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do to great effect 
on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty 
dashboard, anyhing other than that? 
-- 
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[AFMUG] bufferbloat

2020-01-31 Thread Dev

I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem like 
expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything else 
interesting about their technology besides deploying open source implementation 
of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do to great effect 
on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess they have a pretty 
dashboard, anyhing other than that?
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread Josh Baird

Same as the one that I posted about?  The 7043?

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 10:09 AM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> We are using the same generator and it is working just fine for our
> office. It handles our servers, heat and A/C without issues.
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 3:52 AM Mike Meluskey  wrote:
>
>> In the islands we get lots of power outages.
>> Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
>> generator.
>> Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
>> I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
>> filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
>> People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled
>> easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not
>> hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.
>>
>> Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas
>> generators might be a good fit for your environment.
>>
>> On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener,
>> pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that
>> the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton
>> 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.
>>
>> On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> Using 240V AC may help with that.
>>
>> We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than
>> the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting
>> load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The
>> electrical contractor is recommending this:
>>
>>
>> 
>> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
>>
>> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are
>> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and
>> servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners
>> in this room - unsure what it's drawing.
>>
>> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second
>> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which
>> includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like
>> PC's, etc.
>>
>> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind
>> of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load
>> and not fall over?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..


I should have thought of that.

On 1/31/2020 10:28 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That is why I remote the battery inside to a heated area and put a 
better charger on it than comes with the generator. 


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread Nate Burke

We have a couple of the dualfuel generators. I really like them. We've
only ever used them with propane. Small enough to carry around, and
will run for over a day on a 30lb tank (with our normal site load), and
we're somewhat suburban, so within 30 minutes I can get to a store that
does propane tank exchanges.The thing I don't like about them is
there is no 'weather proofing' on them. The outlets are just exposed on
the side, along with all the control switches. Maybe they're all
sealed, but nothing says that. I'm always worried about deploying them
in a rain storm. All the promo pieces show people using them on their
picnics and RV's on bright sunny summer days. Years ago, I had one of
my gas generators fail during a sunny afternoon power outage. At a
landscaper, the tree sprinklers decided to turn on, and shorted out the
generator, so I think that heavy rain might do the same thing. Some
simple weatherproofing would have prevented that, but I haven't seen any
small portable generators that have that.

On 1/31/2020 9:28 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

The problems I have with diesels are as follow:
The fuel goes stale. You can treat it but it still has problems with
age. Most of us want a large tank, but with just short weekly
exercise cycles that fuel might be in the tank for years.
The fuel poses a hazardous clean up risk. Both with refueling and
with a fuel line break. Huge problem if you are in a national forest
or really any public land.
Fuels can gel and make the generator not start in zero and below zero
conditions. Also diesels are just notoriously hard to start when cold.
All liquid cooled generators I have ever seen have block heaters, but
Murphy says that block heaters and engine start batteries will always
fail prior to actually needing the generator. I think I have had more
trouble with the trickle chargers for the engine start batts than
anything else. That is why I remote the battery inside to a heated
area and put a better charger on it than comes with the generator.

But you can refuel them yourself.
There are tri fuel generator carburetors that will take gasoline,
natural gas and propane. To me that is the ultimate in redundant
backups.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 8:14 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..
What brand Diesel generator are you using? Are they permanent or
portable?

On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:

In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
generator.

Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them
re-filled easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power.
Generac’s did not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.

Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.

On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door
opener, pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the
starting current that the control board shutdown the generator
(15kw diesel). It ran a 5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off
just fine.

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other. It ran rough and stalled often.

On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load. I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com wrote:

We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.
The electrical contractor is recommending this:

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS)
that are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering
network gear and servers). There is also one of the on-wall
indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - unsure what
it's drawing.
The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some
small electronics like PC's, etc.
Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here? Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?
Thanks!
--
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

2020-01-31 Thread chuck

Netscape still does the job for me...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 8:41 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Sadly I am finding more and more stuff only works in Chrome, not Edge or 
Firefox.  Don’t know about Safari or the new Chromium based Edge.

I assume this is because browsing is now done mostly on mobile devices, which 
run iOS or Android, so websites are designed for Safari and Chrome.  I assume 
that’s why Microsoft threw in the towel and went to the Chromium rendering 
engine.

Not saying that’s the issue in this case.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:19 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

10 times out of 9, I've found these kind of issues solved by clearing cache.

bp On 1/31/2020 7:15 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:

  Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like a champ in Chrome. As 
long as I know there is in fact a confirmation, i'll know what to look for if I 
need to submit another ticket. 

  On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

Really odd... 

Works here...  See 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be

Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be 
getting in the way?

FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

  http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php

  Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to 
http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using this 
email. 

  I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.

  On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you 
used?   I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine. 

The only ticket I see from you is back in November.   

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen  
wrote:

  I've created two different tickets via their support page but never 
received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I assumed 
it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not creating an 
outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.

  On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.

You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, 
they usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here 
on the list.

-Sean

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
 wrote:

  Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it 
disrupt service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process? 

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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Sadly I am finding more and more stuff only works in Chrome, not Edge or 
Firefox.  Don’t know about Safari or the new Chromium based Edge.

 

I assume this is because browsing is now done mostly on mobile devices, which 
run iOS or Android, so websites are designed for Safari and Chrome.  I assume 
that’s why Microsoft threw in the towel and went to the Chromium rendering 
engine.

 

Not saying that’s the issue in this case.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:19 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

 

10 times out of 9, I've found these kind of issues solved by clearing cache.

 

bp

 

On 1/31/2020 7:15 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:

Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like a champ in Chrome. As long 
as I know there is in fact a confirmation, i'll know what to look for if I need 
to submit another ticket. 

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

Really odd... 

 

Works here...  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc 
 =youtu.be

 

Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be getting in 
the way?

 

FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com 
 

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com> > wrote:

http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php

 

Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to 
http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using this 
email. 

I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.

 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you used?   I 
just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine. 

 

The only ticket I see from you is back in November.   

 

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I've created two different tickets via their support page but never received a 
confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I assumed it was 
broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not creating an outage. I 
just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.

 

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.

 

You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they usually 
respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here on the list.

 

-Sean

 

 

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it disrupt service 
to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process? 

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread chuck

The problems I have with diesels are as follow:

The fuel goes stale.  You can treat it but it still has problems with age.  
Most of us want a large tank, but with just short weekly exercise cycles that 
fuel might be in the tank for years.  

The fuel poses a hazardous clean up risk.  Both with refueling and with a fuel 
line break.  Huge problem if you are in a national forest or really any public 
land.  

Fuels can gel and make the generator not start in zero and below zero 
conditions.  Also diesels are just notoriously hard to start when cold.  

All liquid cooled generators I have ever seen have block heaters, but Murphy 
says that block heaters and engine start batteries will always fail prior to 
actually needing the generator.  I think I have had more trouble with the 
trickle chargers for the engine start batts than anything else.  That is why I 
remote the battery inside to a heated area and put a better charger on it than 
comes with the generator.  

But you can refuel them yourself. 

There are tri fuel generator carburetors that will take gasoline, natural gas 
and propane.  To me that is the ultimate in redundant backups.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 8:14 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

What brand Diesel generator are you using?  Are they permanent or portable?  


On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:

  In the islands we get lots of power outages.
  Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.
  Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
  I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel filters, 
etc. after Hurricane Maria.
  People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled 
easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not hold up 
well, lots of fried circuit boards.

  Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas 
generators might be a good fit for your environment.

  On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener, 
pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that the 
control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton 240v AC 
unit cycling on and off just fine.  


On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  Using 240V AC may help with that.

  We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than 
the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.



  On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting 
load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.


Sent from my iPhone


  On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com 
wrote:


   
  We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The 
electrical contractor is recommending this: 

  
https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled


  This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are 
currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and servers).  
There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - 
unsure what it's drawing.

  The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second 
transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which includes 
some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like PC's, etc.

  Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this 
kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load 
and not fall over?

  Thanks!
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


 

   



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread Mike Meluskey

We were buying Hardy Diesel, with Perkins engines.
Permanent.
Two at our main hub tower.

On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:14, Nate Burke wrote:

What brand Diesel generator are you using? Are they permanent or
portable?

On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:

In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
generator.
Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5
Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them
re-filled easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power.
Generac’s did not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.

Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.

On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other. It ran rough and stalled often.

On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load. I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird
wrote:

We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.
The electrical contractor is recommending this:

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS)
that are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering
network gear and servers). There is also one of the on-wall
indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - unsure what
it's

drawing.

The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some
small electronics like PC's, etc.

Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here? Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?

Thanks!
--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

2020-01-31 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
10 times out of 9, I've found these kind of issues solved by
  clearing cache.


bp



On 1/31/2020 7:15 AM, Eric Muehleisen
  wrote:


  
  Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like
a champ in Chrome. As long as I know there is in fact a
confirmation, i'll know what to look for if I need to submit
another ticket. 
  
  
  
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05
  AM Forrest Christian (List Account)  wrote:


  Really odd...


Works here...  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be


Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something
  which might be getting in the way?


FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com
  
  
  
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at
  7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:


  
http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php


Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It
  immediately takes me to http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php
  without any confirmation. Using this email. 

I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.

  
  
  
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020
  at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  wrote:


  Could you let me know which page you
did this on or what email you used?   I just tried
on the support page and it created a ticket just
fine.


The only ticket I see from you is back in
  November.   
  
  
  
On Thu, Jan 30,
  2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
  wrote:


  I've created two different tickets
via their support page but never received a
confirmation or any indication of a successful
submission. I assumed it was broken. However, I
believe you are correct about it not creating an
outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to
confirm.
  
  
  
On Thu, Jan
  30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett 
  wrote:


  
I’m 99% sure it doesn’t
  cause a power outage to the ports.
  
  
  
  You might submit a ticket to
PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they
usually respond right away to their
tickets.  Forest might chime in here on the
list.
  
  
  -Sean
  
  
  

  On Thu,
Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen

wrote:
  
  

  Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade
  service affecting? Will it disrupt
  service to the ports it's powering
  during the upgrade process? 
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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

2020-01-31 Thread Eric Muehleisen

Safe mode in Firefox 72.02 and it fails. Works like a champ in Chrome. As
long as I know there is in fact a confirmation, i'll know what to look for
if I need to submit another ticket.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Really odd...
>
> Works here...  See
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be
>
> Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be
> getting in the way?
>
> FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen 
> wrote:
>
>> http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php
>>
>> Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to
>> http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using
>> this email.
>> I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you
>>> used?   I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.
>>>
>>> The only ticket I see from you is back in November.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've created two different tickets via their support page but never
 received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I
 assumed it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not
 creating an outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.

 On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.
>
> You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer,
> they usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in
> here on the list.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
> wrote:
>
>> Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it
>> disrupt service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>> --
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>>>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread Nate Burke

What brand Diesel generator are you using? Are they permanent or portable?

On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:

In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
generator.

Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.

On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other. It ran rough and stalled often.

On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load. I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird
wrote:

We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.
The electrical contractor is recommending this:

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here? Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?

Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

2020-01-31 Thread can...@believewireless.net

We are using the same generator and it is working just fine for our office.
It handles our servers, heat and A/C without issues.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 3:52 AM Mike Meluskey  wrote:

> In the islands we get lots of power outages.
> Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
> generator.
> Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
> I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
> filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
> People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled
> easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not
> hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.
>
> Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas
> generators might be a good fit for your environment.
>
> On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener,
> pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that
> the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton
> 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.
>
> On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Using 240V AC may help with that.
>
> We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than
> the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.
>
>
> On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting
> load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
>  wrote:
>
> 
> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The
> electrical contractor is recommending this:
>
>
> 
> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
>
> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are
> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and
> servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners
> in this room - unsure what it's drawing.
>
> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second
> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which
> includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like
> PC's, etc.
>
> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind of
> stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load and
> not fall over?
>
> Thanks!
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Really odd...

Works here...  See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bSaUv4p8Uc=youtu.be

Do you have an adblocker or an antivirus or something which might be
getting in the way?

FYI, you can also send an email into cust...@packetflux.com

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 7:21 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php
>
> Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to
> http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using
> this email.
> I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you used?
>>  I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.
>>
>> The only ticket I see from you is back in November.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've created two different tickets via their support page but never
>>> received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I
>>> assumed it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not
>>> creating an outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.

 You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they
 usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here on
 the list.

 -Sean


 On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
 wrote:

> Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it disrupt
> service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
> --
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>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
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>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CBRS SAS options from Cambium

2020-01-31 Thread Matt Mangriotis via AF

This will be a good place to get a lot of questions answered, I think.

I will be on there (that’s my ugly mug in the bottom right). So will Rick 
Harnish (Baicells), and Richard Bernhardt from WISPA (who knows just about 
everything CBRS rules-wise). Rounding out the panel is Elizabeth Bowles 
(Aristotle), Matt Guzzo (Hudson Valley Wireless) and Rob Katcher (Google).

If any of you guys listen to the webinar and have further questions (or 
Cambium-specific questions), you can always reach me via email…

matt @ cambiumnetworks  com

Matt


From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CBRS SAS options from Cambium

the online will probably be good, but nothing beats the direct Q with ones 
that know. they are in on the upcoming Alpha Wireless webinar  
https://zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_aOHF6vjDT8mEiCTd-U6jHA
 I dont know how cambium centric it is going to be or who from cambium will be 
there. But theyre about the only ones in the industry with the inside track to 
definitively answer questions as definitively as you can about something in flux

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:54 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
They posted an online course, I need to go check if it's the same thing.  
Trying to do about 10 CBRS related things in parallel here.

I doubt the online course has sandwiches though.  BYOS.


 Original Message 
From: "Steve Jones" 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 1/30/2020 3:46:08 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CBRS SAS options from Cambium
tell cambium matt to do another CBRS session

get pitchforks and torches and go to his office

Im telling you guys, its good stuff

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:24 PM Mark Radabaugh 
mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
yes.  As long as the SM can hear (and is set to listen to the frequency, 
bandwidth, and color code) it will work.

Mark
On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Will the SM scan for CBRS and NN mode with one driver loaded?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:48 PM Mark Radabaugh 
mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
One very nice feature of the Cambium solution is (with some caveats) you can 
just turn off CBRS mode in the AP and all the SM’s go back to normal NN 
licensed operation.

The caveats:  You have to have the frequencies, channel widths, color codes, 
etc. enabled in the SM’s for them to be able to ’see’ the AP when it comes up 
in legacy NN modes.  Obviously the frequencies need to be in 3650-3700 and with 
appropriate power levels set.   I’m told you may need to toggle the AP in/out 
of CBRS and extra time in cnMaestro but that appears to be something we have 
only seen a few times so far when transitioning in/out of CBRS modes.

Mark
On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I see there’s a beta 4 release today.  Haven’t read the release notes yet.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sean Heskett
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 12:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CBRS SAS options from Cambium

We also found a big with one Medusa AP that wouldn’t get sync even tho the sync 
status showed cambium sync and timing port sync.  Solution was to turn on 
‘auto-sync + free-run’ and then also enable ‘free run before gps sync’  still 
working with cambium on a better fix but it’s working for now.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:54 AM Mark Radabaugh 
mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
It has bugs, that’s for sure - but it’s workable.

Turn off ‘spectrum scan on startup’ if you enable CBSD.  It goes into an 
endless loop in this beta. That’s probably the worst bug we have found.

Mark
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
22690 Pemberville 
Rd
Luckey, OH

Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

2020-01-31 Thread Eric Muehleisen

http://tickets.packetflux.com/open.php

Fill out the form and hit "Create Ticket". It immediately takes me to
http://tickets.packetflux.com/index.php without any confirmation. Using
this email.
I'm using Firefox as a browser if that matters.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you used?
>  I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.
>
> The only ticket I see from you is back in November.
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen 
> wrote:
>
>> I've created two different tickets via their support page but never
>> received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I
>> assumed it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not
>> creating an outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.
>>>
>>> You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they
>>> usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here on
>>> the list.
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it disrupt
 service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>>
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>>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] CAF-II lack of bidders?

2020-01-31 Thread Matt Hoppes

Cheaters gunna cheat cheat cheat cheat. 

I think we need to make it easier for small companies and hold criminal those 
who do cheat. 

Did Limitless have to pay the 35 mil back?  I don’t think so. And they are 
bankrupt anyway. But they continue operating a world wide network after 
stiffing the USDA. 

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 12:28 AM, Jason McKemie 
>  wrote:
> 
> It seems like there wouldn't be a good way to guarantee that the funds 
> couldn't be used for whatever they want. If they're getting "free" money to 
> build out their network, then the funds that they previously would have used 
> for that purpose can now be used for said Ferrari, etc. 
> 
> IMO there are better uses for this money and the government should stay the 
> hell out of it.
> 
>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> I'm betting CEO bonuses weren't an eligible expense for CAF, but I couldn't 
>> say for sure.
>> 
>> Even if these scenarios went exactly as described, I'm not entirely sure 
>> what the logical conclusion we're supposed to draw is.  Is it "Frontier used 
>> public funds inappropriately, therefore we should not make effort to ensure 
>> appropriate use of public funds"? Even if the first part is true, the second 
>> doesn't really follow.
>> 
>> I'm guessing from your ideas earlier that you're saying the bidder should be 
>> vetted ahead of time rather than audited after the fact.  I suspect it would 
>> actually be easier to cheat that way.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/30/2020 9:01 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Frontier - took CAF funding.
>>> CEO took huge payouts
>>> CEO buys Ferrari
>>> Frontier - Declares bankruptcy
>>> 
>>> Limitless Mobile - gets 35 million
>>> Builds multi county “rural” broadband network in the most populated areas 
>>> of the counties.
>>> Promptly declares bankruptcy
>>> 
 On Jan 30, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

 A clever enough cheater will always find a way to cheat, but you can't 
 make it too easy.

 For NY BPO "Connect NY" there was physical verification that each piece of 
 equipment you bought actually existed somewhere.whether in the field 
 or in storage.  The auditor seemed satisfied with a list of serial numbers 
 plus photographs of all the installations.  We made it very well organized 
 for them: "Rectifier A, Backhaul B, and Base Station C are located at Site 
 X.  Here are our installation photos from Site X."

 You probably wanted good records of what's installed anyway, and if 
 someone takes the time to fake all of that, then maybe they deserve their 
 Ferrari.

 Can you think of a project where there was blatant fraud like that?  I can 
 certainly think of times when they made poor product choices, or ended up 
 with unused equipment due to a design change in the middle of the project, 
 or they bought 20 of the wrong thing and had to go back and buy 20 of the 
 correct thing..or something was otherwise screwed up or mismanaged.  I 
 actually can't think of any project where people bought personal toys 
 (like a Ferrari) with public funds, or any other type of fraud along those 
 lines.  If you saw something like that, I hope you reported it.  I used it 
 as an example of what people would do if there was no auditing.  There is 
 auditing and consequently I don't think people are doing that.

> On 1/30/2020 4:12 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Except that there IS auditing now... and we DO end up with this exact 
> scenario happening currently.  It's not stopping it.
> 
>> On 1/30/20 4:08 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> I'd rather not stress over audits, but auditing is a necessary evil IMO. 
>>  If there were no auditing then there's someone, somewhere who would buy 
>> a Ferrari and supply a fake invoice for rectifiers instead. I'm sure 
>> everyone on this list can think of someone they've dealt with who ought 
>> to have their homework double checked.
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade

Could you let me know which page you did this on or what email you used?
 I just tried on the support page and it created a ticket just fine.

The only ticket I see from you is back in November.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:10 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> I've created two different tickets via their support page but never
> received a confirmation or any indication of a successful submission. I
> assumed it was broken. However, I believe you are correct about it not
> creating an outage. I just wanted someone who's done it to confirm.
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:51 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> I’m 99% sure it doesn’t cause a power outage to the ports.
>>
>> You might submit a ticket to PacketFlux if you need a 100% answer, they
>> usually respond right away to their tickets.  Forest might chime in here on
>> the list.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:16 AM Eric Muehleisen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is a RackInjector firmware upgrade service affecting? Will it disrupt
>>> service to the ports it's powering during the upgrade process?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector firmware upgrade