Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Timothy Steele]

not even making it to  cnMaestro same DNS server as the others but I guess
I can play with that

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:59 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Are they not showing up in cnMaestro, or not onboarding?  I've had some
> AP's that for whatever reason don't like the DNS Server I put in, and never
> get to cnMaestro.  I change the DNS server and boom, they pop right in.
> Even though other AP's use the same DNS server without a problem.
>
> On 7/21/2020 9:14 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>
> cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's
>
> I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro
>
> he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add
>
> I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info
>
> and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP
>
> Does anyone know how I can get them working?
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] STIR/SHAKEN and call forwarding

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

We push inbound calls to packetflux outbound to our cell phones with the
callerid of the original call.  My wife's phone has started to claim these
are questionable in origin, but the call still works.  Mine is old enough
it probably doesn't understand.

This will probably result in us running a voip (sip) app on the phones
themselves instead of just pushing them out via the PSTN to our phones.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:20 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Has anyone run into call forwarding on VoIP systems not working because of
> STIR/SHAKEN thinking they are spoofed calls?  Like if the phone does a SIP
> 302 redirect but the caller ID is still the original caller?  Kind of like
> the problem with email lists that keep the original sender’s email address
> as the From address?
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Nate Burke]

Are they not showing up in cnMaestro, or not onboarding?  I've had some 
AP's that for whatever reason don't like the DNS Server I put in, and 
never get to cnMaestro.  I change the DNS server and boom, they pop 
right in.  Even though other AP's use the same DNS server without a 
problem.


On 7/21/2020 9:14 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:

cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro

he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add

I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info

and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP

Does anyone know how I can get them working?




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Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Ken Hohhof]

Status “Waiting for Device” or “Waiting for Approval”?

 

I’ve had SMs in both that are still working fine in CBRS despite not being 
manageable via cnMaestro because they aren’t onboarded.  Waiting for Approval 
was perhaps an oversight on our part, clicked the Approve button and they were 
onboarded.  I haven’t figured out what causes Waiting for Device if the SM is 
online.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Timothy Steele
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

 

cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's 

 

I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro 

 

he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add

 

I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info 

 

and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP

 

Does anyone know how I can get them working? 

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[AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Timothy Steele]

cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro

he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add

I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info

and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP

Does anyone know how I can get them working?
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Re: [AFMUG] STIR/SHAKEN and call forwarding

[Ken Hohhof]

I don't know.  I think the original deadline was late 2019 but it has been
pushed out to 2021.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 8:35 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] STIR/SHAKEN and call forwarding

 

Is STIR/SHAKEN live now?

 

bp

 

On 7/21/2020 6:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Has anyone run into call forwarding on VoIP systems not working because of
STIR/SHAKEN thinking they are spoofed calls?  Like if the phone does a SIP
302 redirect but the caller ID is still the original caller?  Kind of like
the problem with email lists that keep the original sender's email address
as the From address?





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Re: [AFMUG] STIR/SHAKEN and call forwarding

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Is STIR/SHAKEN live now?


bp



On 7/21/2020 6:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
Has anyone run into call forwarding on VoIP
  systems not working because of STIR/SHAKEN thinking they are
  spoofed calls?  Like if the phone does a SIP 302 redirect but
  the caller ID is still the original caller?  Kind of like the
  problem with email lists that keep the original sender’s email
  address as the From address?
  
  
  

  


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[AFMUG] STIR/SHAKEN and call forwarding

[Ken Hohhof]

Has anyone run into call forwarding on VoIP systems not working because of
STIR/SHAKEN thinking they are spoofed calls?  Like if the phone does a SIP
302 redirect but the caller ID is still the original caller?  Kind of like
the problem with email lists that keep the original sender's email address
as the From address?

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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Ken Hohhof]

Mama don’t take my Kodachrome away.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 6:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

 

More afraid of my wife hitting my good eyeI don't dare leave TV on those 
channels...

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 4:10 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Careful you don't damage that retina repair!

 

bp

 

On 7/21/2020 2:27 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Some mid afternoon eye candy

 

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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Jaime Solorza]

More afraid of my wife hitting my good eyeI don't dare leave TV on
those channels...

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 4:10 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Careful you don't damage that retina repair!
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/21/2020 2:27 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Some mid afternoon eye candy
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Chuck McCown]

I look at them every day and wonder when I am going to get a short piece of 
ciaxto go from the wall plate to the box...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> 
> Speaking of TV...Chuck, how did the Experiment go with the TV DVR's I sent. 
> Did you have a big AF type shoot out?
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 4:28 PM Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza  
>>> wrote:
>>> Some mid afternoon eye candy
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> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Ken Hohhof]

If you were one of my customers, you would take a photo of the computer
screen with your cellphone and then text it to me.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

 

Are you talking about the traceroute window inside of winbox, or traceroute
from the terminal line?  

You can resize the columns in the traceroute window just fine.  Is there a
way to copy the traceroute window as text?

On 7/21/2020 12:38 PM, dave wrote:

+1 
Same here




On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the headers
you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using 
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.


bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
> the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
> space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
> line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Careful you don't damage that retina repair!


bp



On 7/21/2020 2:27 PM, Jaime Solorza
  wrote:


  
  
  
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM
  Jaime Solorza 
  wrote:


  Some mid afternoon eye candy

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Ken Hohhof]

Looks like Fox & Friends, except with brunettes and 6 ft distancing.

 

Nothing makes the news more believable than lots of leg.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 4:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

 

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Some mid afternoon eye candy

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Re: [AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Lewis Bergman]

Speaking of TV...Chuck, how did the Experiment go with the TV DVR's I sent.
Did you have a big AF type shoot out?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 4:28 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Some mid afternoon eye candy
>>
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>


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[AFMUG] As I changed channels

[Jaime Solorza]

Some mid afternoon eye candy
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah.  I think that adds more columns, but the first column doesn't 
scale up so he'll never see those long hostnames in traceroute.  
Probably nothing to be done about it.



On 7/21/2020 4:02 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

always resize before you issue the first command and it stretches


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:54 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


Are you talking about the traceroute window inside of winbox, or
traceroute from the terminal line?

You can resize the columns in the traceroute window just fine.  Is
there a way to copy the traceroute window as text?

On 7/21/2020 12:38 PM, dave wrote:

+1
Same here


On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on
the headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested
in, etc.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old?
I'm using
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any
which way.


bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a
way to resize
> the terminal window so that it will give you more
horizontal column
> space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the
command
> line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is
too narrow.
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Steve Jones]

always resize before you issue the first command and it stretches


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:54 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Are you talking about the traceroute window inside of winbox, or
> traceroute from the terminal line?
>
> You can resize the columns in the traceroute window just fine.  Is there a
> way to copy the traceroute window as text?
>
> On 7/21/2020 12:38 PM, dave wrote:
>
> +1
> Same here
>
>
> On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the
> headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince < 
> part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using
>> Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>> > I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize
>> > the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column
>> > space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command
>> > line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
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> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

Are you talking about the traceroute window inside of winbox, or 
traceroute from the terminal line?


You can resize the columns in the traceroute window just fine.  Is there 
a way to copy the traceroute window as text?


On 7/21/2020 12:38 PM, dave wrote:

+1
Same here


On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the 
headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.


bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to
resize
> the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal
column
> space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command
> line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too
narrow.
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Ansible

[Josh Baird]

Yeah - it's a UI that implements some monitoring, RBAC, scheduling, etc.
 It's nice, but not required just to use Ansible.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:42 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Interesting.  So "Tower" is the front end GUI and that's the part you pay
> for?
>
> They charge quite dearly for that.
>
>
> On 7/21/2020 11:35 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Ansible by itself (without Tower) is always an option depending on your
> needs.. it's free!
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:34 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Anyone here use Ansible Tower?
>>
>> I have a demo scheduled with Redhat, but it seems real spendy. Should I
>> bother burning my time on the demo?
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ansible

[Adam Moffett]

Interesting.  So "Tower" is the front end GUI and that's the part you 
pay for?


They charge quite dearly for that.


On 7/21/2020 11:35 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Ansible by itself (without Tower) is always an option depending on 
your needs.. it's free!


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:34 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Anyone here use Ansible Tower?

I have a demo scheduled with Redhat, but it seems real spendy.
Should I
bother burning my time on the demo?


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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[dave]

+1
Same here


On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the 
headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.


bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to
resize
> the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column
> space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command
> line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too
narrow.
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

Am I doing something wrong?









On 7/21/2020 11:22 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
I don't know what you're doing. With putty, if I extend the right 
column on anything that's previously displayed, the area to the right 
will be blank.


However, when I then display something new, it will fill the space.


bp


On 7/21/2020 8:58 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Putty acts the same as the terminal in winbox.  No matter window 
size, just a bunch of blank space to the right, and output columns 
are still fixed width.Logging in with the +t80w was accepted, but 
did not change anything.


On 7/21/2020 10:53 AM, Joshua Stump wrote:

Why not just SSH in with Putty or similar?

On 2020-07-21 11:20, Nate Burke wrote:

I haven't found a way to copy the text out of the winbox traceroute,
where you can resize the columns, and it just seems rude to send a
traceroute screenshot to another tech person.

On 7/21/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by 
adding +t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also 
didn't make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it 
doesn't apply to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to 
resize the terminal window so that it will give you more 
horizontal column space? I'm running a traceroute with DNS 
lookups from the command line, and it cuts off half the name 
because the column is too narrow.















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Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

[Ken Hohhof]

Some of the most successful people are those who learn from their mistakes.  
But admitting you’re wrong does not seem to be a natural human trait.

 

And it’s unrealistic to expect everything to be resolved by compromise.  If a 
store has a sign “no shirt, no shoes, no service”, do you compromise?  Yes, by 
going to a different store.

 

The whole thing about not thinking it was a mistake because it was resolved by 
force is interesting.  Slavery and racism aside, as a person who grew up in the 
north, I’ve never understood why some people seem to reject the idea that the 
Confederacy lost the war and the issue is settled.

 

Germany didn’t accept the outcome of WWI, but both Germany and Japan seem to 
have accepted they lost WWII and the issue was settled.  At least until 
recently, with a resurgence of neo Nazis in Germany among later generations.  
Is it that way with wanting to reject or revisit the outcome of the Civil War?  
I don’t feel like it’s just a recent thing.  40 years ago I would visit certain 
states and get the feeling the Civil War was viewed as just a temporary 
setback.  And in Texas, sometimes I got the feeling that statehood was viewed 
as a trial period and they might call the whole thing off.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

 

Maybe that's the issue with slavery. The north won the war and emancipated the 
slaves, except parts of the south never admitted it was a mistake (and parts of 
the north as well).

bp

 

On 7/20/2020 7:16 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one side to 
realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,  Slavery, etc.  

 

I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't happen 
without forceful action. 

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to kill and 
other's not to be killed?

Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"

 

On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd just 
post this separately in the thread.

 

I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are where 
two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.

 

Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought killing 
other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group just wanted 
to live their lives without being worried about being killed by other humans, 
and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in conflict their 
'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this case, 'the right to 
live is more important than the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws 
against murdering others.

 

What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a construction 
of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the right to not be 
killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you have a right to 
kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of course, I have a feeling 
that a society with that as a right might not have a long lifecycle...

 

As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of 
'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.   

 

In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought over 
right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important than the 
desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether the color of 
your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to be shot or abused 
by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and on.

 

If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful or 
violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example, the rights 
of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white people to not 
want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At some point, there 
is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope 
that you could come to an agreement that both sides would at least be equally 
unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.   But when 
you're the party who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's kinda hard 
to get the people who are doing the trampling to listen, since you'd end up 
trampling on their rights if things changed.   In this circumstance, often some 
sort of protest or refusal to go along with the societal norms is unfortunately 
needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter 
sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.

 

The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd 
death

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Bill Prince]

I don't know what you're doing. With putty, if I extend the right column 
on anything that's previously displayed, the area to the right will be 
blank.


However, when I then display something new, it will fill the space.


bp


On 7/21/2020 8:58 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Putty acts the same as the terminal in winbox.  No matter window size, 
just a bunch of blank space to the right, and output columns are still 
fixed width.    Logging in with the +t80w was accepted, but did not 
change anything.


On 7/21/2020 10:53 AM, Joshua Stump wrote:

Why not just SSH in with Putty or similar?

On 2020-07-21 11:20, Nate Burke wrote:

I haven't found a way to copy the text out of the winbox traceroute,
where you can resize the columns, and it just seems rude to send a
traceroute screenshot to another tech person.

On 7/21/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by 
adding +t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also 
didn't make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it 
doesn't apply to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to 
resize the terminal window so that it will give you more 
horizontal column space? I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups 
from the command line, and it cuts off half the name because the 
column is too narrow.













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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

Putty acts the same as the terminal in winbox.  No matter window size, 
just a bunch of blank space to the right, and output columns are still 
fixed width.Logging in with the +t80w was accepted, but did not 
change anything.


On 7/21/2020 10:53 AM, Joshua Stump wrote:

Why not just SSH in with Putty or similar?

On 2020-07-21 11:20, Nate Burke wrote:

I haven't found a way to copy the text out of the winbox traceroute,
where you can resize the columns, and it just seems rude to send a
traceroute screenshot to another tech person.

On 7/21/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by 
adding +t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also 
didn't make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it 
doesn't apply to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to 
resize the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal 
column space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the 
command line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is 
too narrow.











--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Joshua Stump]

Why not just SSH in with Putty or similar?

On 2020-07-21 11:20, Nate Burke wrote:

I haven't found a way to copy the text out of the winbox traceroute,
where you can resize the columns, and it just seems rude to send a
traceroute screenshot to another tech person.

On 7/21/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by adding 
+t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also didn't 
make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it doesn't 
apply to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.








--
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Network Admin
Fourway.NET
800-733-0062

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Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Maybe that's the issue with slavery. The north won the war and
  emancipated the slaves, except parts of the south never admitted
  it was a mistake (and parts of the north as well).

bp



On 7/20/2020 7:16 PM, Forrest Christian
  (List Account) wrote:


  
  I would argue that sometimes the correct
compromise is actually for one side to realize they were wrong
and to abandon the practice.  Murder,  Slavery, etc. 


I also realize that often these are the types of
  compromises which don't happen without forceful action. 
  
  
  
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM
  Adam Moffett  wrote:


  
What would be the reasonable compromise between one
  caveman's right to kill and other's not to be killed?
Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no
  killing"


On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
  wrote:


  
Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's
  specific points, I figured I'd just post this
  separately in the thread.


I've recently realized that pretty much all of the
  conflicts we see are where two sides 'rights' come in
  conflict with each other.


Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was
  one group that thought killing other humans was just
  fine and it was their right.  Another group just
  wanted to live their lives without being worried about
  being killed by other humans, and it was their right
  to do so.   When those groups came in conflict their
  'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in
  this case, 'the right to live is more important than
  the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws
  against murdering others.


What I think people miss is that 'rights' are
  really nothing but a construction of societal norms
  and laws built up over years.   You have the right to
  not be killed (life).   But it could have just as
  easily been "you have a right to kill anything you
  want, including other humans".   Of course, I have a
  feeling that a society with that as a right might not
  have a long lifecycle...


As time has progressed, more and more things have
  moved into the realm of 'rights'.   Right to free
  speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.   


In our current situation, there seem to be several
  'rights' being fought over right now.   Whether my
  desire to not wear a mask is more important than the
  desire of society to reduce the transmission of a
  virus.   Whether the color of your skin should
  determine if you are more or less likely to be shot or
  abused by a police officer in some areas.    And on
  and on and on.


If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of
  the protests (peaceful or violent) came about where
  'rights' were in conflict.   For example, the rights
  of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of
  the white people to not want black people to share
  their facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is
  going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
  society, one would hope that you could come to an
  agreement that both sides would at least be equally
  unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil
  disobedience.   But when you're the party
  who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's
  kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
  trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on
  their rights if things changed.   In this
  circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
  go along with the societal norms is unfortunately
  needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you
  saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom riders
  and similar.


  

Re: [AFMUG] Ansible

[Josh Baird]

Ansible by itself (without Tower) is always an option depending on your
needs.. it's free!

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:34 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Anyone here use Ansible Tower?
>
> I have a demo scheduled with Redhat, but it seems real spendy. Should I
> bother burning my time on the demo?
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Ansible

[Adam Moffett]

Anyone here use Ansible Tower?

I have a demo scheduled with Redhat, but it seems real spendy. Should I 
bother burning my time on the demo?



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Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[chuck]

A vacuum excavator is the best shovel for digging around gas lines.  
I know a guy that made one out of two 55 gallon barrels, a shop vac and a 
pressure washer. 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

I have never had a problem using regular shovels around gas lines.  Same as 
using a regular shovel around fiber conduit.  It is all HDPE and pretty hard to 
cut unless you have sharpened your shovel and really whack away at it.  Even if 
you cut a gas line (talking distribution, not transmission) it is no big deal.  
The gas is lighter than air and will go straight up.  It is low pressure.  You 
can clamp a service line to a house with vice grips.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 7:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

Toys-R-Us?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:48 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  I figured they probably use plastic shovels in food processing, but these 
look like they’re more for scooping than digging:



  https://www.bunzlpd.com/plastic-shovels?cat_page_id=&;



  I take it you’re looking for something non-sparking?  Or something that won’t 
cut through plastic gas lines?





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
  Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:47 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?



  Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel 

  Jon Langeler

  Michwave Technologies, Inc.







On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:



  https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks  



On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler  
wrote:

  I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas 
lines. Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.


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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

I haven't found a way to copy the text out of the winbox traceroute, 
where you can resize the columns, and it just seems rude to send a 
traceroute screenshot to another tech person.


On 7/21/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by adding 
+t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also didn't 
make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it doesn't 
apply to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.









--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Adam Moffett]

Oddly, it looks like you can do that on a console port login by adding 
+t80w after your login name, where 80 is your column width.


https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Console_login_process

I tried this on a telnet login and it didn't complain, but also didn't 
make the traceroute output any wider.  I'm not sure if it doesn't apply 
to telnet logins or doesn't apply to traceroute.


I never really noticed this limitation before.

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

Hmm, my winbox 3.23 isn't doing that, just a bunch of white space at the 
right hand side, and the columns are still fixed width.  At least in the 
tracroute command with use-dns=yes


On 7/21/2020 10:06 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
It will "downsize" the column width for anything that has previously 
been displayed. To get the display at a wider width, you need to 
adjust the width, then issue the command.



bp


On 7/21/2020 8:01 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I can resize the terminal window, but the displayed column width 
stays the same, there's just a bunch of empty white space at the 
right hand side.


On 7/21/2020 10:00 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using 
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.



bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to 
resize the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal 
column space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the 
command line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is 
too narrow.














--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[Ken Hohhof]

Time to fab up a homebrew hydro excavation rig.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

 

I have never had a problem using regular shovels around gas lines.  Same as 
using a regular shovel around fiber conduit.  It is all HDPE and pretty hard to 
cut unless you have sharpened your shovel and really whack away at it.  Even if 
you cut a gas line (talking distribution, not transmission) it is no big deal.  
The gas is lighter than air and will go straight up.  It is low pressure.  You 
can clamp a service line to a house with vice grips.  

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 7:21 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

 

Toys-R-Us?

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:48 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I figured they probably use plastic shovels in food processing, but these look 
like they’re more for scooping than digging:

 

https://www.bunzlpd.com/plastic-shovels?cat_page_id= 
 &

 

I take it you’re looking for something non-sparking?  Or something that won’t 
cut through plastic gas lines?

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

 

Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel 

Jon Langeler

Michwave Technologies, Inc.

 

 

On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:



  https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks  

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net> > wrote:

I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas lines. 
Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


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  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Bill Prince]

It will "downsize" the column width for anything that has previously 
been displayed. To get the display at a wider width, you need to adjust 
the width, then issue the command.



bp


On 7/21/2020 8:01 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I can resize the terminal window, but the displayed column width stays 
the same, there's just a bunch of empty white space at the right hand 
side.


On 7/21/2020 10:00 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using 
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.



bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to 
resize the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal 
column space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the 
command line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is 
too narrow.











--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Bill Prince]

Cancel that. I always read the version from the wrong place. My Winbox 
version is .16.



bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Lewis Bergman]

Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the
headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using
> Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize
> > the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column
> > space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command
> > line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

I can resize the terminal window, but the displayed column width stays 
the same, there's just a bunch of empty white space at the right hand side.


On 7/21/2020 10:00 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using 
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.



bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.









--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Bill Prince]

Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using 
Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.



bp


On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command 
line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Nate Burke]

I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize 
the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column 
space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command line, 
and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[chuck]

I have never had a problem using regular shovels around gas lines.  Same as 
using a regular shovel around fiber conduit.  It is all HDPE and pretty hard to 
cut unless you have sharpened your shovel and really whack away at it.  Even if 
you cut a gas line (talking distribution, not transmission) it is no big deal.  
The gas is lighter than air and will go straight up.  It is low pressure.  You 
can clamp a service line to a house with vice grips.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 7:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

Toys-R-Us?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:48 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  I figured they probably use plastic shovels in food processing, but these 
look like they’re more for scooping than digging:



  https://www.bunzlpd.com/plastic-shovels?cat_page_id=&;



  I take it you’re looking for something non-sparking?  Or something that won’t 
cut through plastic gas lines?





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
  Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:47 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?



  Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel 

  Jon Langeler

  Michwave Technologies, Inc.







On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:



  https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks  



On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler  
wrote:

  I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas 
lines. Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.


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Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[Lewis Bergman]

Toys-R-Us?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:48 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I figured they probably use plastic shovels in food processing, but these
> look like they’re more for scooping than digging:
>
>
>
> https://www.bunzlpd.com/plastic-shovels?cat_page_id=&;
>
>
>
> I take it you’re looking for something non-sparking?  Or something that
> won’t cut through plastic gas lines?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jon Langeler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:47 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?
>
>
>
> Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel
>
> Jon Langeler
>
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
>   https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
> I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas
> lines. Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> --
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>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[Ken Hohhof]

I figured they probably use plastic shovels in food processing, but these look 
like they’re more for scooping than digging:

 

https://www.bunzlpd.com/plastic-shovels?cat_page_id= 
 &

 

I take it you’re looking for something non-sparking?  Or something that won’t 
cut through plastic gas lines?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

 

Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel 

Jon Langeler

Michwave Technologies, Inc.

 





On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:



  https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks  

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net> > wrote:

I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas lines. 
Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


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Re: [AFMUG] Plastic shovel ?

[Jon Langeler]

Interesting. But was looking for more of a blunt edged poly based shovel 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jul 20, 2020, at 11:06 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
>   https://www.safetytools.us/shovels-picks-forks  
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:24 PM Jon Langeler  
>> wrote:
>> I’m looking for a heavy duty poly, rounded shovel, for digging near gas 
>> lines. Having a tough time finding one. Any ideas?
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:59 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> out of curiosity, when it pops off next month, are "war crimes" defined
> somewhere ahead of time specifically, or is that a "written by the victor"
> sort of thing... asking for a friend
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:17 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one
>> side to realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,
>> Slavery, etc.
>>
>> I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't
>> happen without forceful action.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
>>> kill and other's not to be killed?
>>>
>>> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured
>>> I'd just post this separately in the thread.
>>>
>>> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
>>> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>>>
>>> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
>>> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
>>> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
>>> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
>>> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
>>> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>>>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>>>
>>> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
>>> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
>>> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
>>> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
>>> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
>>> a long lifecycle...
>>>
>>> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm
>>> of 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so
>>> on.
>>>
>>> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
>>> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
>>> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
>>> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
>>> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
>>> on.
>>>
>>> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests
>>> (peaceful or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For
>>> example, the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of
>>> the white people to not want black people to share their
>>> facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is going to be conflict and
>>> disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope that you could come to
>>> an agreement that both sides would at least be equally unhappy about
>>> without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.   But when you're the
>>> party who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get
>>> the people who are doing the trampling to listen, since you'd end up
>>> trampling on their rights if things changed.   In this circumstance, often
>>> some sort of protest or refusal to go along with the societal norms is
>>> unfortunately needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you saw the
>>> lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.
>>>
>>> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George
>>> Floyd death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
>>> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
>>> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
>>> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
>>> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
>>> find some.
>>>
>>> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
>>> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
>>> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
>>> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
>>> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>>>
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