date:20201220

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

2020-12-20 Thread Steven Kenney

Their support is behaving the same way exactly. They told me to take the 
watchdog off and allow the internet to be frozen (downtime for all my 
customers) whenever it happens at any random point in the day/night while I 
rush to log into it with a serial cable. The absurdity of it. Luckily I told 
him from day one that I have a CONSOLE SERVER and that I log all the serial 
output of all my switches and routers. But even though I told them that a 
couple times they still requested I plug in a serial cable and wait for it to 
freeze. So I'm like .. hellooo there is a serial cable plugged in at all times! 
I told him there is no output. It just reboots. I even humored him and turned 
the watchdog off and we had a reboot on the weekend while the cable was plugged 
in and the console was logged in. I even had logging set to echo for a lot of 
things and nothing.. just a hard freeze. 

There is no BGP on this one and the processor is not high leading up to the 
crash at all. Updated 5 times already and its just a placebo. They need to get 
their shit together. 

[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283 
W: www.wavedirect.net 


From: "Colin Stanners"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations 

This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being rock-solid 
to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100% CPU usage, 
which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case, tools->profile would show 
the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after temporarily disabling all firewall 
filter and NAT rules and connection tracking. Not fun. 

MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly recommending 
to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or to upgrade 
firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem or nature of 
the fix). 

Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another... 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < [ mailto:st...@wavedirect.org | 
st...@wavedirect.org ] > wrote: 



MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the 1072's. 
Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some more than 
others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem exactly. Its a 
connection tracking issue.. however I need connection tracking on one 
particular router. I've adjusted everything I could. Firmware and board 
firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low levels of traffic, high 
levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day, sometimes weeks. No DDOS 
evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs checked and rechecked by third 
party experts. I graph everything about the Mikrotik and there are no clues or 
anything abnormal happening before the crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU 
etc. Replaces all the trannies, power cables and such. Not running BGP only 
OSPF on the one that is giving me the most trouble. 

Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set it to 
log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and nothing. A hard 
freeze. 

Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support before until 
now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from them seems 
like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and they are 
intentionally not being helpful. It is pretty clear to see with all the people 
reporting this issue that there IS an issue. 

If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on the 
newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise level 
system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are just about keeping up with 
the demands with their hardware. Getting closer to 100Gbps etc and ROS7 ... but 
at their current pace I think we've outgrew them. 

All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it comes 
to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot. I think they 
know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor warranties. I've 
heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's. 

Anyone else encounter this? 



[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: [ mailto:st...@wavedirect.org | st...@wavedirect.org

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

2020-12-20 Thread Colin Stanners

This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
tracking. Not fun.

MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
or nature of the fix).

Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years.  Until this year and the
> 1072's.  Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's.
> Some more than others.  Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
> exactly.  Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
> tracking on one particular router.  I've adjusted everything I could.
> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc.  Happens randomly with low
> levels of traffic,  high levels of traffic,  sometimes a couple times a
> day,  sometimes weeks.  No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers.
> Configs checked and rechecked by third party experts.  I graph everything
> about the Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening
> before the crash.  Plenty of memory, disk space,  CPU etc.Replaces all
> the trannies, power cables and such.  Not running BGP only OSPF on the one
> that is giving me the most trouble.
>
> Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set
> it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and
> nothing.  A hard freeze.
>
> Then there is Mikrotik support...  I've never needed their support before
> until now.  So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from
> them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and
> they are intentionally not being helpful.  It is pretty clear to see with
> all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
>
> If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on
> the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise
> level system.  Juniper most likely.  Shame because they are just about
> keeping up with the demands with their hardware.  Getting closer to 100Gbps
> etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
>
> All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it
> comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot.  I
> think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor
> warranties.  I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
>
> Anyone else encounter this?
>
>
>
> [image: logo] 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * STEVEN KENNEY *
> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
> Leamington ON
> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
> W: www.wavedirect.net
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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[AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

2020-12-20 Thread Steven Kenney

MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the 1072's. 
Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some more than 
others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem exactly. Its a 
connection tracking issue.. however I need connection tracking on one 
particular router. I've adjusted everything I could. Firmware and board 
firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low levels of traffic, high 
levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day, sometimes weeks. No DDOS 
evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs checked and rechecked by third 
party experts. I graph everything about the Mikrotik and there are no clues or 
anything abnormal happening before the crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU 
etc. Replaces all the trannies, power cables and such. Not running BGP only 
OSPF on the one that is giving me the most trouble. 

Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set it to 
log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and nothing. A hard 
freeze. 

Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support before until 
now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from them seems 
like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and they are 
intentionally not being helpful. It is pretty clear to see with all the people 
reporting this issue that there IS an issue. 

If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on the 
newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise level 
system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are just about keeping up with 
the demands with their hardware. Getting closer to 100Gbps etc and ROS7 ... but 
at their current pace I think we've outgrew them. 

All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it comes 
to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot. I think they 
know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor warranties. I've 
heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's. 

Anyone else encounter this? 



[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283 
W: www.wavedirect.net 
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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

2020-12-20 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Don’t book stuff as assets.  Expense everything.  Depreciate nothing.  Then 
there will be no recapture at the end.  

Takes two sets of books, because to interest the seller, you sure do want to 
show assets.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:20 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

The whole depreciation recapture thing confuses me.

Virtually nobody will say that used radios and routers and stuff are worth more 
than their depreciated value.  And the valuation by the buyer will usually be 
based on the customers and revenue, with the equipment being valued at pretty 
much zero.  They may change it all out to whatever they use, or move the 
customers to their network.

So if you sell your WISP for $1 million, do you say assign that value entirely 
to the equipment?  That defies logic.  So do you assign part of it to the 
equipment, and then pay depreciation recapture on the difference between that 
and the depreciated value?

I don’t follow the logic that I buy some APs, put them on towers, replace them 
with new ones every 3-5 years, and spend a lot of effort growing a customer 
base and revenue, which results in my business being worth maybe more than I 
paid for those APs.  Are they saying the value of the APs has appreciated, 
maybe to more than I paid for the equipment, because my business is profitable?

These aren’t Beanie Babies that I bought as an investment and they appreciated 
in value and now I sell them for a net gain.

This is more like a musician buys a guitar, works 20 years becoming a famous 
musician with a bunch of top selling albums, and is now worth millions, do you 
say it’s because the guitar appreciated in value?  Because the guitar is the 
only hard asset the musician ever purchased, everything else was just hard work 
and maybe talent?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

If you have the option to sell the stock of the company instead of the assets.  
That make the sale a capital gains tax. I think that only works if you are 
setup as a C corp or S corp though.   Spread it out over a term if you trust 
the buyer to pay you off.  That also reduces your income per year and spreads 
it out over a term .  

From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:26:44 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

So for any of you who have solid: How did you cushion taxes?  If you got 
600,000, 1 million or 2 million - that’s still going to be w huge tax hit. 

Also did you do anything for your employees?  For example give them some of the 
sale proceeds?  And if so did you just lump sum it or set something up to help 
them with money management and tax liability?

  On Dec 19, 2020, at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Maybe I ought to call them before you do.  ;-)

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Nate Burke" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 9:34:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

  I just got a cold call yesterday, leaving a voicemail on almost every 
extension in the IVR, from a company wanting us to acquire one of their WISPS. 
CID came back as someone's personal name.  Claimed to be from Wispbroker.com

  On 12/18/2020 8:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

You selling?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs?

  For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer?

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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

2020-12-20 Thread Ken Hohhof

The whole depreciation recapture thing confuses me.

 

Virtually nobody will say that used radios and routers and stuff are worth more 
than their depreciated value.  And the valuation by the buyer will usually be 
based on the customers and revenue, with the equipment being valued at pretty 
much zero.  They may change it all out to whatever they use, or move the 
customers to their network.

 

So if you sell your WISP for $1 million, do you say assign that value entirely 
to the equipment?  That defies logic.  So do you assign part of it to the 
equipment, and then pay depreciation recapture on the difference between that 
and the depreciated value?

 

I don’t follow the logic that I buy some APs, put them on towers, replace them 
with new ones every 3-5 years, and spend a lot of effort growing a customer 
base and revenue, which results in my business being worth maybe more than I 
paid for those APs.  Are they saying the value of the APs has appreciated, 
maybe to more than I paid for the equipment, because my business is profitable?

 

These aren’t Beanie Babies that I bought as an investment and they appreciated 
in value and now I sell them for a net gain.

 

This is more like a musician buys a guitar, works 20 years becoming a famous 
musician with a bunch of top selling albums, and is now worth millions, do you 
say it’s because the guitar appreciated in value?  Because the guitar is the 
only hard asset the musician ever purchased, everything else was just hard work 
and maybe talent?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

 

If you have the option to sell the stock of the company instead of the assets.  
That make the sale a capital gains tax. I think that only works if you are 
setup as a C corp or S corp though.   Spread it out over a term if you trust 
the buyer to pay you off.  That also reduces your income per year and spreads 
it out over a term .  

 

  _  

From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:26:44 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

 

So for any of you who have solid: How did you cushion taxes?  If you got 
600,000, 1 million or 2 million - that’s still going to be w huge tax hit. 

 

Also did you do anything for your employees?  For example give them some of the 
sale proceeds?  And if so did you just lump sum it or set something up to help 
them with money management and tax liability?

 

On Dec 19, 2020, at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Maybe I ought to call them before you do.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 9:34:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

I just got a cold call yesterday, leaving a voicemail on almost every extension 
in the IVR, from a company wanting us to acquire one of their WISPS. CID came 
back as someone's personal name.  Claimed to be from Wispbroker.com

On 12/18/2020 8:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

You selling?

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs?

For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer?

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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

2020-12-20 Thread Craig House

If you have the option to sell the stock of the company instead of the assets. 
That make the sale a capital gains tax. I think that only works if you are 
setup as a C corp or S corp though. Spread it out over a term if you trust the 
buyer to pay you off. That also reduces your income per year and spreads it out 
over a term . 

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:26:44 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker 

So for any of you who have solid: How did you cushion taxes? If you got 
600,000, 1 million or 2 million - that’s still going to be w huge tax hit. 

Also did you do anything for your employees? For example give them some of the 
sale proceeds? And if so did you just lump sum it or set something up to help 
them with money management and tax liability? 

On Dec 19, 2020, at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Maybe I ought to call them before you do. ;-) 

- 
Mike Hammett 
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ] 
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ] 
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ] 

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 9:34:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker 

I just got a cold call yesterday, leaving a voicemail on almost every extension 
in the IVR, from a company wanting us to acquire one of their WISPS. CID came 
back as someone's personal name. Claimed to be from Wispbroker.com 

On 12/18/2020 8:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

You selling? 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes < [ 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net | mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net ] 
> wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN
Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs? 

For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer? 

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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

2020-12-20 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

You prepay the taxes so you don’t have to cough it up later.  Get your CPA 
involved before doing anything.  
Our employees all got jobs with the buyer.  So... no, they didn’t get any thing 
extra.  Some key employees were gifted some stock in prior years and they 
shared in the sale proceeds.

Beware depreciation recapture income.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 9:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

So for any of you who have solid: How did you cushion taxes?  If you got 
600,000, 1 million or 2 million - that’s still going to be w huge tax hit. 

Also did you do anything for your employees?  For example give them some of the 
sale proceeds?  And if so did you just lump sum it or set something up to help 
them with money management and tax liability?


  On Dec 19, 2020, at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:


   
  Maybe I ought to call them before you do.  ;-)




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Nate Burke" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 9:34:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

  I just got a cold call yesterday, leaving a voicemail on almost every 
extension in the IVR, from a company wanting us to acquire one of their WISPS. 
CID came back as someone's personal name.  Claimed to be from Wispbroker.com


  On 12/18/2020 8:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

You selling?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs?

  For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer?

  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

2020-12-20 Thread Matt Hoppes

So for any of you who have solid: How did you cushion taxes?  If you got 
600,000, 1 million or 2 million - that’s still going to be w huge tax hit. 

Also did you do anything for your employees?  For example give them some of the 
sale proceeds?  And if so did you just lump sum it or set something up to help 
them with money management and tax liability?

> On Dec 19, 2020, at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe I ought to call them before you do.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Nate Burke" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 9:34:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker
> 
> I just got a cold call yesterday, leaving a voicemail on almost every 
> extension in the IVR, from a company wanting us to acquire one of their 
> WISPS. CID came back as someone's personal name.  Claimed to be from 
> Wispbroker.com
> 
> On 12/18/2020 8:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
> You selling?
> 
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
>> Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs?
>> 
>> For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer?
>> 
>> -- 
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