Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Colin Stanners]

I thought that Travis was around middle USA, not in Canada?


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 10:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Must be bored in the great white north?
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> He just signed back on.  I normally don’t out folks when they sign up.
>> But, hey, it’s Travis.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Travis still on this thing?
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Travis, what have you been up to?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Bill Prince]

Must be bored in the great white north?

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> He just signed back on.  I normally don’t out folks when they sign up.
> But, hey, it’s Travis.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> 
> Travis still on this thing?
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Travis, what have you been up to?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Chuck McCown via AF]

He just signed back on.  I normally don’t out folks when they sign up.  But, 
hey, it’s Travis.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> Travis still on this thing?
> 
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> Travis, what have you been up to?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Bill Prince]

Travis still on this thing?

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Travis, what have you been up to?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Jaime Solorza]

Putting some money in his pocket..

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 7:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Travis, what have you been up to?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Travis, what have you been up to?

Sent from my iPhone


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[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** OT Google News - California Highway Patrol tickets driver with apparent SpaceX Starlink dish bolted to car hood

[Jaime Solorza]

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEO0-bOcujaTLflhpY-a8XRkqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3CjDivdcCMJ_d7gU?hl=en-US=US=US%3Aen
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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
There is literally nothing in the cabinet that needs AC. Zippity
  doo dah. 



bp

On 7/2/2021 2:31 PM, Forrest Christian
  (List Account) wrote:


  
  That is exactly what the Inverter/chargers do.


Take for example the Outback FXR series.   You tie it to
  your solar, power grid, and battery, and hook your equipment
  to the AC output.   You can think of it as a solar-powered UPS
  which has an AC backup if the solar isn't sufficient.


  
  
  
On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:16
  AM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly
  because we don't want to go through the hassle of the
  county and their grid-tied goo-rah. We want this to be
  standalone, DC plant with power augmented by solar.


bp

On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
  wrote:


  I'm not sure about the exact models which
are being recommended, but at least a few of these
inverters are designed such that you tie your solar into
them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage
the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC
consumption.    You'd have to look at each one to
determine if their implementation would work in your
situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make
  sense to do a grid-tied inverter and do net metering? 
   (I.E. poor net metering rules).
  
  

  
  
  
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at
  4:57 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:

Again, that has an
  inverter to supply the load. That is the opposite of 
  what we are looking for.
  
  
  bp
  
  
  On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
  
  >
  >
  > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo
  units.  You could add any 
  >> solar controller to the mix.
  >> There are islanding inverters that are an all
  in one unit.
  >> I don't know anything about this product but
  it came up when I 
  >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
  >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
  >>
  >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
  >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
  >> To: AFMUG
  >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge
  controller?
  >>
  >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge
  controller. We have a few
  >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid
  on AC using  a DC UPS to
  >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment
  runs directly on the 48VDC,
  >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
  >>
  >> We want to augment the AC power with solar
  for a couple of reasons.
  >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC
  during expected rolling
  >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall
  AC/grid costs if the solar
  >> can provide the bulk of the power when the
  sun is shining. We live in a
  >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and
  typicially get 5-11 hours of
  >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We
  think an appropriately
  >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the
  need for a generator.
  >>
  >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar
  controller that can take 2 power
  >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or
  maybe just rectified AC?).
  >>
  >> Any help from the borg?
  >>
  >>
  >
  
 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
The DDR series (Meanwell DIN mount DC-DC) are also good, like the
RSD, but in a DIN mount form factor.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont
Owner
  / Network
  Architect
  email:
  jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity
  Networks LLC / Celerity
Broadband LLC
  Like us!
  facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like
  us!
  facebook.com/celeritybroadband
 
  

On 7/2/21 12:05 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


  
  I was gonna say the same thing.  RSD also doesn't have a
cooling fanone less thing to fail.
  In either case get a few #6 bolts (or similar size metric) and
you can mount them to a 1U blank.  
  
  
  
  On 7/2/2021 1:54 PM, Josh Baird
wrote:
  
  

Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD
  series instead.  The SD series has issues with current inrush.


  On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52
PM castarritt  wrote:
  
  
Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis
  ground vs dc return on my dragonwave radios, and they
  weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see if they are
  cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will
  buy +48v DC systems in the future.
  
  
  For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at
this Meanwell isolated DC-DC converter; do you think it
would work?
  
  
  https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D
  



  On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at
12:18 PM TJ Trout 
wrote:
  
  
Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC
  supply to isolate -48 from +48 (a meanwell brand would
  work) needs to be an isolated converter
  
  
  Also fyi that most of the '-48'
equipment I've tested hasn't had a chassis reference
to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far
I've ran as +48 on everything. 
  
  
  48v is 48v, difference between -48 and
+48 being which output terminal may be bounded to
chassis ground. 



  On Fri, Jul 2, 2021,
9:33 AM castarritt 
wrote:
  
  
Tushar wants me to figure out a good
  solution for our first site to be converted to DC
  power.
  
  APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
  3x 450M 5Ghz
  2x 450i 5Ghz
  3x 450 5Ghz
  5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
  
  
  The force200s don't use sync, but I would
like all the others to have sync over power.
  
  
  Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf
and one of their isolated 48v to 24v converters.
  
  
  Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with
their DC power supplies.  Switch is a CRS that
will be wired to run off the ICT +24v
converter.  We also have 6x dwave backhauls that
will all be fine with -48v.
  
  
  
  Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't
figure out a way to power all 13 radios through
a single rack injector without giving up sync
via power on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way
to get +48v off of either the -48v or +24v ICT
supplies, or should I just plan on adding a
second rack injector?

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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Mathew Howard]

If you need to run stuff on AC, sure, but in this case you'd be converting
48VDC to 120VAC to 48VDC, (or AC-DC-AC-DC, when it's not running on solar),
instead of just running directly off the 48VDC source that's already there.
Not exactly the most efficient way of doing things.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 4:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> That is exactly what the Inverter/chargers do.
>
> Take for example the Outback FXR series.   You tie it to your solar, power
> grid, and battery, and hook your equipment to the AC output.   You can
> think of it as a solar-powered UPS which has an AC backup if the solar
> isn't sufficient.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we
>> don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied
>> goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented by
>> solar.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but at
>> least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie your solar
>> into them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage the solar+AC
>> consumption in a way to minimize the AC consumption.You'd have to look
>> at each one to determine if their implementation would work in your
>> situation.
>>
>> Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a grid-tied
>> inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering rules).
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the opposite of
>>> what we are looking for.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> >
>>> https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>> >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units.  You could add any
>>> >> solar controller to the mix.
>>> >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
>>> >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
>>> >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
>>> >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
>>> >>
>>> >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
>>> >> To: AFMUG
>>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
>>> >>
>>> >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have a few
>>> >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC UPS to
>>> >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on the
>>> 48VDC,
>>> >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
>>> >>
>>> >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
>>> >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
>>> >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if the
>>> solar
>>> >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We live in
>>> a
>>> >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11 hours
>>> of
>>> >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an appropriately
>>> >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can take 2
>>> power
>>> >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just rectified AC?).
>>> >>
>>> >> Any help from the borg?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

That is exactly what the Inverter/chargers do.

Take for example the Outback FXR series.   You tie it to your solar, power
grid, and battery, and hook your equipment to the AC output.   You can
think of it as a solar-powered UPS which has an AC backup if the solar
isn't sufficient.


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we don't
> want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied goo-rah. We
> want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented by solar.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but at
> least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie your solar
> into them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage the solar+AC
> consumption in a way to minimize the AC consumption.You'd have to look
> at each one to determine if their implementation would work in your
> situation.
>
> Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a grid-tied
> inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering rules).
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the opposite of
>> what we are looking for.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> >
>> https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units.  You could add any
>> >> solar controller to the mix.
>> >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
>> >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
>> >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
>> >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
>> >> To: AFMUG
>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
>> >>
>> >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have a few
>> >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC UPS to
>> >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on the
>> 48VDC,
>> >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
>> >>
>> >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
>> >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
>> >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if the solar
>> >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We live in a
>> >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11 hours of
>> >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an appropriately
>> >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can take 2
>> power
>> >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just rectified AC?).
>> >>
>> >> Any help from the borg?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)

[Josh Luthman]

It's expensive compared to your $20 Meanwell.  It's cheap compared to
problems, downtime, etc.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 6:49 PM Mark Frost  wrote:

> Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :)
>
> I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a
> hefty price tag.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
> Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
>
>
> https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for
> -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf
> 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
>
> We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years.
> Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us.
> I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the
> last several years.  I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but
> they're becoming more and more scarce.  Anybody have a recommendation for a
> simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big
> batteries?
>
> We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours,
> not days.  So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the
> DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during
> outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external
> batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back
> for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times
> are very quick.
>
> When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of
> ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When
> I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters,
> fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a
> couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together.
>
> Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant?  I see the telco's at the
> sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are
> a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to
> worry about 24v radios.  When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries,
> and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes.  A DIN
> rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully
> monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment
> modifications.
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[TJ Trout]

even every "-48" rectifier I've encountered before wasn't chassis
referenced, so we use those for +48 as well Just wanted to put that out
there that many things don't care. Mikrotik 1072 routers w/ '-48' power
supplies their support swore they aren't for +48, but work fine.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:38 AM castarritt  wrote:

> So RSD-500C-48 then?
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:06 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I was gonna say the same thing.  RSD also doesn't have a cooling
>> fanone less thing to fail.
>>
>> In either case get a few #6 bolts (or similar size metric) and you can
>> mount them to a 1U blank.
>>
>>
>> On 7/2/2021 1:54 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD series instead.  The SD
>> series has issues with current inrush.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52 PM castarritt  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
>>> dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
>>> if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
>>> systems in the future.
>>>
>>> For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell
>>> isolated DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
 Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48
 (a meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter

 Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a
 chassis reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran
 as +48 on everything.

 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal
 may be bounded to chassis ground.

 On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:

> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
> converted to DC power.
>
> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
> 3x 450M 5Ghz
> 2x 450i 5Ghz
> 3x 450 5Ghz
> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>
> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
> sync over power.
>
> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated
> 48v to 24v converters.
>
> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>
> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power
> all 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via
> power on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the
> -48v or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
> injector?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Shade will always help, but for the dollar, you want paint, then insulation.  
Adding shade to that combo was a waste of effort if I recall correctly.  A bit 
counter intuitive.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think he's saying that if you don't have shade, then the white paint is a 
> winner.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> On 7/2/2021 11:36 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>> Huh, we have one site with a large tree shading it and it seems to do a lot 
>> better.
>>  
>> Are you saying it is not worth it to completely shade the cabinet vs. just 
>> painting it Sat White?
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 12:20 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet
>>  
>> 20+ years ago, I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.  
>> Some live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about 24” cubes.  All 
>> started out as gray.  Tried sun shields, exterior insulation, vents, fans, 
>> peltier cooling modules.  Silver paint, white paint.  The overwhelming #1 
>> thing that lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By a long stretch.  
>> Then filtered powered vents.  Silver paint was worse than gray.  I wonder if 
>> the railroad still used silver.  Sun shades did little to help if the box 
>> was satellite white.  Interior styrofoam insulation helped a bit, not much, 
>> but was cheap and easy to add to the white paint.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 2, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Super hot out here in Utah.
>>  
>> My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain and 
>> AC units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.
>>  
>> I’ve had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure 
>> and a reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun 
>> exposure.
>>  
>> Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to “shade” the cabinet 
>> with solar panels as well.
>>  
>> Is anyone doing this?
>>  
>> The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a 
>> string of four 12v AGM batteries.
>>  
>> I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the batteries 
>> sit in a slide out section below.
>>  
>> Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.
>>  
>> Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the 
>> cabinet?
>>  
>> Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Chuck McCown via AF]

That was the outcome of my study.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2021, at 12:36 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
> Huh, we have one site with a large tree shading it and it seems to do a lot 
> better.
>  
> Are you saying it is not worth it to completely shade the cabinet vs. just 
> painting it Sat White?
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 12:20 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet
>  
> 20+ years ago, I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.  
> Some live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about 24” cubes.  All 
> started out as gray.  Tried sun shields, exterior insulation, vents, fans, 
> peltier cooling modules.  Silver paint, white paint.  The overwhelming #1 
> thing that lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By a long stretch.  
> Then filtered powered vents.  Silver paint was worse than gray.  I wonder if 
> the railroad still used silver.  Sun shades did little to help if the box was 
> satellite white.  Interior styrofoam insulation helped a bit, not much, but 
> was cheap and easy to add to the white paint.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
> Super hot out here in Utah.
>  
> My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain and 
> AC units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.
>  
> I’ve had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure and 
> a reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun exposure.
>  
> Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to “shade” the cabinet 
> with solar panels as well.
>  
> Is anyone doing this?
>  
> The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a 
> string of four 12v AGM batteries.
>  
> I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the batteries 
> sit in a slide out section below.
>  
> Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.
>  
> Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the 
> cabinet?
>  
> Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I think he's saying that if you don't have shade, then the white
  paint is a winner.


bp

On 7/2/2021 11:36 AM, Sterling Jacobson
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Huh, we have one site with a large tree
  shading it and it seems to do a lot better.
 
Are you saying it is not worth it to
  completely shade the cabinet vs. just painting it Sat White?
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of 
  Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 12:20 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber
  Cabinet
  

 
20+ years ago,
  I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.
   Some live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about
  24” cubes.  All started out as gray.  Tried sun shields,
  exterior insulation, vents, fans, peltier cooling modules.
   Silver paint, white paint.  The overwhelming #1 thing that
  lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By a long
  stretch.  Then filtered powered vents.  Silver paint was worse
  than gray.  I wonder if the railroad still used silver.  Sun
  shades did little to help if the box was satellite white.
   Interior styrofoam insulation helped a bit, not much, but was
  cheap and easy to add to the white paint.

  Sent from my iPhone


  


  
On Jul 2,
  2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
  wrote:
  


  
 
Super hot out here in Utah.
 
My fiber cabinets running Active
  switches are getting harder to maintain and AC units on
  the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.
 
I’ve had the thought of shading them
  with a permanent four post structure and a reflective
  white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun
  exposure.
 
Then I thought, well, maybe it might be
  interesting to “shade” the cabinet with solar panels as
  well.
 
Is anyone doing this?
 
The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15
  or 20A units running the UPS to a string of four 12v AGM
  batteries.
 
I do have limited rack space in some of
  these available since the batteries sit in a slide out
  section below.
 
Haven’t done solar in like a decade
  since I had remote WISP type sites.
 
Is this doable to offset power costs
  and also get the temp down for the cabinet?
 
Or is it just a huge time suck and
  money pit for no real return?
-- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

So RSD-500C-48 then?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:06 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was gonna say the same thing.  RSD also doesn't have a cooling
> fanone less thing to fail.
>
> In either case get a few #6 bolts (or similar size metric) and you can
> mount them to a 1U blank.
>
>
> On 7/2/2021 1:54 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD series instead.  The SD
> series has issues with current inrush.
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52 PM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
>> dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
>> if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
>> systems in the future.
>>
>> For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell isolated
>> DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?
>>
>>
>> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48
>>> (a meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter
>>>
>>> Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a
>>> chassis reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran
>>> as +48 on everything.
>>>
>>> 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal
>>> may be bounded to chassis ground.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:
>>>
 Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
 converted to DC power.

 APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
 3x 450M 5Ghz
 2x 450i 5Ghz
 3x 450 5Ghz
 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers

 The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
 sync over power.

 Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated
 48v to 24v converters.

 Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
 Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
 also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.

 Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power
 all 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via
 power on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the
 -48v or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
 injector?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Sterling Jacobson]

Huh, we have one site with a large tree shading it and it seems to do a lot 
better.

Are you saying it is not worth it to completely shade the cabinet vs. just 
painting it Sat White?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 12:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

20+ years ago, I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.  Some 
live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about 24” cubes.  All started 
out as gray.  Tried sun shields, exterior insulation, vents, fans, peltier 
cooling modules.  Silver paint, white paint.  The overwhelming #1 thing that 
lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By a long stretch.  Then filtered 
powered vents.  Silver paint was worse than gray.  I wonder if the railroad 
still used silver.  Sun shades did little to help if the box was satellite 
white.  Interior styrofoam insulation helped a bit, not much, but was cheap and 
easy to add to the white paint.
Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 2, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Super hot out here in Utah.

My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain and AC 
units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.

I’ve had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure and a 
reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun exposure.

Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to “shade” the cabinet with 
solar panels as well.

Is anyone doing this?

The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a string 
of four 12v AGM batteries.

I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the batteries sit 
in a slide out section below.

Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.

Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the cabinet?

Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Bill Prince]

  
  
We recently discussed the idea of using solar panels as a sun
  shade. You'd have to place them strategically, but it would
  accomplish the main task of getting the sun off the enclosure(s).
  The white paint works pretty well too. Burt Rutan did some
  temperature studies with paint colors back in the 80s. By far,
  white paint was the clear winner. Venting hot air if is is hotter
  than ambient works too.


bp

On 7/2/2021 10:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Super hot out here in Utah.
 
My fiber cabinets running Active switches
  are getting harder to maintain and AC units on the side of the
  cabinets are starting to fail faster.
 
I’ve had the thought of shading them with a
  permanent four post structure and a reflective white painted
  cover to shade them from the southern sun exposure.
 
Then I thought, well, maybe it might be
  interesting to “shade” the cabinet with solar panels as well.
 
Is anyone doing this?
 
The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or
  20A units running the UPS to a string of four 12v AGM
  batteries.
 
I do have limited rack space in some of
  these available since the batteries sit in a slide out section
  below.
 
Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I
  had remote WISP type sites.
 
Is this doable to offset power costs and
  also get the temp down for the cabinet?
 
Or is it just a huge time suck and money
  pit for no real return?
  
  
  

  


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Chuck McCown via AF]

20+ years ago, I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.  Some 
live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about 24” cubes.  All started 
out as gray.  Tried sun shields, exterior insulation, vents, fans, peltier 
cooling modules.  Silver paint, white paint.  The overwhelming #1 thing that 
lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By a long stretch.  Then filtered 
powered vents.  Silver paint was worse than gray.  I wonder if the railroad 
still used silver.  Sun shades did little to help if the box was satellite 
white.  Interior styrofoam insulation helped a bit, not much, but was cheap and 
easy to add to the white paint.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
> Super hot out here in Utah.
>  
> My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain and 
> AC units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.
>  
> I’ve had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure and 
> a reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun exposure.
>  
> Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to “shade” the cabinet 
> with solar panels as well.
>  
> Is anyone doing this?
>  
> The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a 
> string of four 12v AGM batteries.
>  
> I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the batteries 
> sit in a slide out section below.
>  
> Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.
>  
> Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the 
> cabinet?
>  
> Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[Adam Moffett]

I was gonna say the same thing.  RSD also doesn't have a cooling 
fanone less thing to fail.


In either case get a few #6 bolts (or similar size metric) and you can 
mount them to a 1U blank.



On 7/2/2021 1:54 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD series instead.  The SD 
series has issues with current inrush.


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52 PM castarritt > wrote:


Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return
on my dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with
dwave to see if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If
so, we will buy +48v DC systems in the future.

For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell
isolated DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?


https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D



On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:

Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48
from +48 (a meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated
converter

Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't
had a chassis reference to either of the DC input terminals,
so thus far I've ran as +48 on everything.

48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output
terminal may be bounded to chassis ground.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt mailto:castarr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our
first site to be converted to DC power.

APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
3x 450M 5Ghz
2x 450i 5Ghz
3x 450 5Ghz
5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers

The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the
others to have sync over power.

Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of
their isolated 48v to 24v converters.

Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power
supplies.  Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off
the ICT +24v converter. We also have 6x dwave backhauls
that will all be fine with -48v.

Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a
way to power all 13 radios through a single rack injector
without giving up sync via power on the 450i APs.  Is
there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a
second rack injector?
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Gino A. Villarini]

Juniper MX80 are cheap in ebay,


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/968060a2-d5a8-4a76-b3b3-cee8c588e646.png]
[https://image.ibb.co/noQeyp/inc500.png] 
  
[https://image.ibb.co/e4pBB9/fb-logo.png]  
[https://image.ibb.co/nxuuW9/insta-logo.png] 
   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 

[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka Technologies 

Date: Friday, July 2, 2021 at 2:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation
Sterling,

That is why I'm testing the 1072.. Currently I have two old MaxxWaxe x86 
routers.  One connected to each of my upstreams.  I have 2 Internet connections 
and an IX connection at each upstream.  We are currently upgrading our 
upstream's to 100G connections.  So I had to introduce a switch to handle the 
100G from each upstream.

The plan is to have 3 BGP routers (maybe 1072) connected to the switch.  Each 
router will peer with one provider from each upstream.  The plan is even if one 
upstream goes down and all the traffic gets pushed to a single upstream, I will 
still be sharing the load across 3 BGP routers.



--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Friday, July 2, 2021, 12:48:44 PM, you wrote:

The easiest route and probably still the least expensive is just get two CCR 
1072 units, one for each 10Gbps upstream and make them both BGP upstream and 
BGP to each other.
That’s what our configuration is right now.
1072 units take a while to learn full tables, but having two with full tables 
means I can down one for maintenance any time and then let it rebuild, then 
down the other one and rebuild without network down time.

Like everyone says, DO NOT RUN CONNECTION TRACKING on the 1072 units, period.

We just use them for our BPG, iBGP and OSPF routing core.
Everything else is running 1036 or 2004 for 10Gbps CGNAT and management IPv4 
nat (that handles the conn tracking just fine for a couple Gigabit each).


From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 7:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

If you like Mikrotik, I'd go something CHR-based.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP



From: "Jason McKemie" 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:48:19 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation
I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that 
can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP.  I'd probably want at least 3 
or 4 SFP+ ports.  The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories 
relating to this model, so I'm looking at other options.  Those of you that use 
Juniper or Cisco, what would you recommend?  I'd probably be buying gray-market 
on these brands due to the price.

Thanks.

Jason

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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation


Sterling,

That is why I'm testing the 1072.. Currently I have two old MaxxWaxe x86 routers.  One connected to each of my upstreams.  I have 2 Internet connections and an IX connection at each upstream.  We are currently upgrading our upstream's to 100G connections.  So I had to introduce a switch to handle the 100G from each upstream.

The plan is to have 3 BGP routers (maybe 1072) connected to the switch.  Each router will peer with one provider from each upstream.  The plan is even if one upstream goes down and all the traffic gets pushed to a single upstream, I will still be sharing the load across 3 BGP routers. 



--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Friday, July 2, 2021, 12:48:44 PM, you wrote:






The easiest route and probably still the least expensive is just get two CCR 1072 units, one for each 10Gbps upstream and make them both BGP upstream and BGP to each other.
That’s what our configuration is right now.
1072 units take a while to learn full tables, but having two with full tables means I can down one for maintenance any time and then let it rebuild, then down the other one and rebuild without network down time.
 
Like everyone says, DO NOT RUN CONNECTION TRACKING on the 1072 units, period.
 
We just use them for our BPG, iBGP and OSPF routing core.
Everything else is running 1036 or 2004 for 10Gbps CGNAT and management IPv4 nat (that handles the conn tracking just fine for a couple Gigabit each).
 
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 7:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation
 
If you like Mikrotik, I'd go something CHR-based.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP



From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:48:19 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation
I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP.  I'd probably want at least 3 or 4 SFP+ ports.  The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories relating to this model, so I'm looking at other options.  Those of you that use Juniper or Cisco, what would you recommend?  I'd probably be buying gray-market on these brands due to the price.
 
Thanks.
 
Jason

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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[Josh Baird]

Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD series instead.  The SD
series has issues with current inrush.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52 PM castarritt  wrote:

> Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
> dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
> if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
> systems in the future.
>
> For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell isolated
> DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?
>
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48
>> (a meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter
>>
>> Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a
>> chassis reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran
>> as +48 on everything.
>>
>> 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal
>> may be bounded to chassis ground.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:
>>
>>> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
>>> converted to DC power.
>>>
>>> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
>>> 3x 450M 5Ghz
>>> 2x 450i 5Ghz
>>> 3x 450 5Ghz
>>> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>>>
>>> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
>>> sync over power.
>>>
>>> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated
>>> 48v to 24v converters.
>>>
>>> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
>>> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
>>> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>>>
>>> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all
>>> 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power
>>> on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
>>> or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
>>> injector?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
systems in the future.

For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell isolated
DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48 (a
> meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter
>
> Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a chassis
> reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran as +48
> on everything.
>
> 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal may
> be bounded to chassis ground.
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
>> converted to DC power.
>>
>> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
>> 3x 450M 5Ghz
>> 2x 450i 5Ghz
>> 3x 450 5Ghz
>> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>>
>> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
>> sync over power.
>>
>> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated 48v
>> to 24v converters.
>>
>> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
>> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
>> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>>
>> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all
>> 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power
>> on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
>> or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
>> injector?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Robert Andrews]

I would keep the pieces separate just to make the functionality 
straightforward.   If you don't need a lot of power or Ethernet 
monitoring you can keep the charge controller prices down in the $200 
range.  The converter is like $100 so you can do the whole thing very 
cheaply with the prices of solar panels being so low.


On 7/2/21 10:30 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
It may come to that. Just wondered if there was a single charge 
controller that could do that.


The closest I have dreamed up is a hybrid wind/solar charge controller, 
and feeding the wind input with rectified AC. I would want to reduce the 
rectified DC from the AC enough that it would drop below the input 
voltage of the solar.



bp


On 7/2/2021 10:22 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources, 
Grid and Solar.    So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge 
controller and another charge controller fed by solar.


On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we 
don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied 
goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented 
by solar.



bp


On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but 
at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie 
your solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will 
manage the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC 
consumption.    You'd have to look at each one to determine if their 
implementation would work in your situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a 
grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering 
rules).



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


    Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
    opposite of
    what we are looking for.


    bp
    

    On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
    >
https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta 



    >
    >
    > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
    >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
    any
    >> solar controller to the mix.
    >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
    >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
    >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
    >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
    >>
    >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
    >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
    >> To: AFMUG
    >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
    >>
    >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
    a few
    >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
    UPS to
    >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
    the 48VDC,
    >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
    >>
    >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of 
reasons.
    >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected 
rolling

    >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
    the solar
    >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
    live in a
    >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
    hours of
    >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
    appropriately
    >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a 
generator.

    >>
    >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
    take 2 power
    >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
    rectified AC?).
    >>
    >> Any help from the borg?
    >>
    >>
    >

    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Mathew Howard]

Personally, I think I'd just go with two charge controllers. That way, you
have redundancy if one of them dies.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:31 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It may come to that. Just wondered if there was a single charge
> controller that could do that.
>
> The closest I have dreamed up is a hybrid wind/solar charge controller,
> and feeding the wind input with rectified AC. I would want to reduce the
> rectified DC from the AC enough that it would drop below the input
> voltage of the solar.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/2/2021 10:22 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources,
> > Grid and Solar.So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge
> > controller and another charge controller fed by solar.
> >
> > On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >> The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we
> >> don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied
> >> goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented
> >> by solar.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but
> >>> at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie
> >>> your solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will
> >>> manage the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC
> >>> consumption.You'd have to look at each one to determine if their
> >>> implementation would work in your situation.
> >>>
> >>> Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a
> >>> grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering
> >>> rules).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
> >>> opposite of
> >>> what we are looking for.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>> >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
> >>> any
> >>> >> solar controller to the mix.
> >>> >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
> >>> >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
> >>> >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
> >>> >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
> >>> >> To: AFMUG
> >>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
> >>> a few
> >>> >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
> >>> UPS to
> >>> >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
> >>> the 48VDC,
> >>> >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of
> >>> reasons.
> >>> >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected
> >>> rolling
> >>> >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
> >>> the solar
> >>> >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
> >>> live in a
> >>> >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
> >>> hours of
> >>> >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
> >>> appropriately
> >>> >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a
> >>> generator.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
> >>> take 2 power
> >>> >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
> >>> rectified AC?).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Any help from the borg?
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> -- AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com 
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - Forrest
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[Sterling Jacobson]

Super hot out here in Utah.

My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain and AC 
units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.

I've had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure and a 
reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun exposure.

Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to "shade" the cabinet with 
solar panels as well.

Is anyone doing this?

The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a string 
of four 12v AGM batteries.

I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the batteries sit 
in a slide out section below.

Haven't done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.

Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the cabinet?

Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
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Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)

[Adam Moffett]

Their Modular system is a couple thousand USD ..depending what 
modules you get.


IDK what the setup from the PDF costs, but it looks pretty clean.  If 
you can afford a setup like that you won't regret having it.



On 7/1/2021 6:48 PM, Mark Frost wrote:

Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :)

I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a hefty 
price tag.

Cheers,
Mark

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)

https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for
-Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)

We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years.
Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us.  I 
can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last 
several years.  I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're 
becoming more and more scarce.  Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS 
that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries?

We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not 
days.  So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC 
Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during
outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external
batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for 
them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very 
quick.

When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of 
ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I 
price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse 
protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple 
hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together.

Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant?  I see the telco's at the sites 
using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several 
hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 
24v radios.  When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and 
the site is up and running in a couple minutes.  A DIN rail with a couple power 
supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in 
whatever I want without any equipment modifications.

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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Bill Prince]

It may come to that. Just wondered if there was a single charge 
controller that could do that.


The closest I have dreamed up is a hybrid wind/solar charge controller, 
and feeding the wind input with rectified AC. I would want to reduce the 
rectified DC from the AC enough that it would drop below the input 
voltage of the solar.



bp


On 7/2/2021 10:22 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources, 
Grid and Solar.    So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge 
controller and another charge controller fed by solar.


On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we 
don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied 
goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented 
by solar.



bp


On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but 
at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie 
your solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will 
manage the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC 
consumption.    You'd have to look at each one to determine if their 
implementation would work in your situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a 
grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering 
rules).



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


    Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
    opposite of
    what we are looking for.


    bp
    

    On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
    >
https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta

    >
    >
    > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
    >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
    any
    >> solar controller to the mix.
    >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
    >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
    >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
    >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
    >>
    >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
    >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
    >> To: AFMUG
    >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
    >>
    >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
    a few
    >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
    UPS to
    >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
    the 48VDC,
    >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
    >>
    >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of 
reasons.
    >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected 
rolling

    >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
    the solar
    >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
    live in a
    >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
    hours of
    >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
    appropriately
    >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a 
generator.

    >>
    >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
    take 2 power
    >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
    rectified AC?).
    >>
    >> Any help from the borg?
    >>
    >>
    >

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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Robert Andrews]

So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources, Grid 
and Solar.So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge controller 
and another charge controller fed by solar.


On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we 
don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied 
goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented by 
solar.



bp


On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but 
at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie your 
solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage 
the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC consumption.
You'd have to look at each one to determine if their implementation 
would work in your situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a 
grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering rules).



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
opposite of
what we are looking for.


bp


On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta

>
>
> On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
any
>> solar controller to the mix.
>> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
>> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
>> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
>> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
>> To: AFMUG
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
>>
>> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
a few
>> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
UPS to
>> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
the 48VDC,
>> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
>>
>> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
>> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
>> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
the solar
>> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
live in a
>> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
hours of
>> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
appropriately
>> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.
>>
>> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
take 2 power
>> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
rectified AC?).
>>
>> Any help from the borg?
>>
>>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[TJ Trout]

Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48 (a
meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter

Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a chassis
reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran as +48
on everything.

48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal may
be bounded to chassis ground.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:

> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
> converted to DC power.
>
> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
> 3x 450M 5Ghz
> 2x 450i 5Ghz
> 3x 450 5Ghz
> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>
> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have sync
> over power.
>
> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated 48v
> to 24v converters.
>
> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>
> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all
> 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power
> on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
> or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
> injector?
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because
  we don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their
  grid-tied goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with
  power augmented by solar.


bp

On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian
  (List Account) wrote:


  
  I'm not sure about the exact models which are being
recommended, but at least a few of these inverters are designed
such that you tie your solar into them, and your batteries into
them, and they will manage the solar+AC consumption in a way to
minimize the AC consumption.    You'd have to look at each one
to determine if their implementation would work in your
situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to
  do a grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net
  metering rules).
  
  

  
  
  
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM
  Bill Prince  wrote:

Again,
  that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the opposite
  of 
  what we are looking for.
  
  
  bp
  
  
  On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
  
  >
  >
  > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. 
  You could add any 
  >> solar controller to the mix.
  >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one
  unit.
  >> I don't know anything about this product but it came
  up when I 
  >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
  >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
  >>
  >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
  >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
  >> To: AFMUG
  >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
  >>
  >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge
  controller. We have a few
  >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC
  using  a DC UPS to
  >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs
  directly on the 48VDC,
  >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
  >>
  >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a
  couple of reasons.
  >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during
  expected rolling
  >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid
  costs if the solar
  >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is
  shining. We live in a
  >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially
  get 5-11 hours of
  >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think
  an appropriately
  >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need
  for a generator.
  >>
  >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller
  that can take 2 power
  >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe
  just rectified AC?).
  >>
  >> Any help from the borg?
  >>
  >>
  >
  
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  -- 
  
- Forrest
  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Sterling Jacobson]

The easiest route and probably still the least expensive is just get two CCR 
1072 units, one for each 10Gbps upstream and make them both BGP upstream and 
BGP to each other.
That’s what our configuration is right now.
1072 units take a while to learn full tables, but having two with full tables 
means I can down one for maintenance any time and then let it rebuild, then 
down the other one and rebuild without network down time.

Like everyone says, DO NOT RUN CONNECTION TRACKING on the 1072 units, period.

We just use them for our BPG, iBGP and OSPF routing core.
Everything else is running 1036 or 2004 for 10Gbps CGNAT and management IPv4 
nat (that handles the conn tracking just fine for a couple Gigabit each).


From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 7:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

If you like Mikrotik, I'd go something CHR-based.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Jason McKemie" 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:48:19 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation
I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that 
can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP.  I'd probably want at least 3 
or 4 SFP+ ports.  The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories 
relating to this model, so I'm looking at other options.  Those of you that use 
Juniper or Cisco, what would you recommend?  I'd probably be buying gray-market 
on these brands due to the price.

Thanks.

Jason

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[AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
converted to DC power.

APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
3x 450M 5Ghz
2x 450i 5Ghz
3x 450 5Ghz
5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers

The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have sync
over power.

Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated 48v
to 24v converters.

Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.  Switch
is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We also
have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.

Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all 13
radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power on
the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
injector?
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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Dennis Burgess]

We have plenty in stock here    Just in case. .


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 2:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

Thanks guys, I may give the 1072 a shot.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:29 PM 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The trick with 1072 is you need to disable connection tracking.  Ours have been 
100% stable ever since doing that.  That means no NAT and only basic firewall 
rules (src/dst/ip/port).  Just do your NAT and firewall stuff on other boxes.



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2021 1:48 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that 
can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP.  I'd probably want at least 3 
or 4 SFP+ ports.  The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories 
relating to this model, so I'm looking at other options.  Those of you that use 
Juniper or Cisco, what would you recommend?  I'd probably be buying gray-market 
on these brands due to the price.

Thanks.

Jason
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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Mike Hammett]

If you like Mikrotik, I'd go something CHR-based. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:48:19 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation 


I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that 
can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP. I'd probably want at least 3 or 
4 SFP+ ports. The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories relating 
to this model, so I'm looking at other options. Those of you that use Juniper 
or Cisco, what would you recommend? I'd probably be buying gray-market on these 
brands due to the price. 


Thanks. 


Jason 
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Re: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

[Dennis Burgess]

Honestly the horror stories were with older hardware units.  The new units 
don’t have these issues.  I have one unit doing 6+ gig in with NAT etc, and 
another router doing 15 gig in/out without NAT.  They work its just a matter of 
how you set them up..


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:48 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Gateway Router Recommendation

I'm looking to update my gateway router (currently a CCR1036) to something that 
can support 2 10GE WAN connections running BGP.  I'd probably want at least 3 
or 4 SFP+ ports.  The CCR1072 comes to mind, but I've read horror stories 
relating to this model, so I'm looking at other options.  Those of you that use 
Juniper or Cisco, what would you recommend?  I'd probably be buying gray-market 
on these brands due to the price.

Thanks.

Jason
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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but at
least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie your solar
into them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage the solar+AC
consumption in a way to minimize the AC consumption.You'd have to look
at each one to determine if their implementation would work in your
situation.

Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a grid-tied
inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering rules).


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the opposite of
> what we are looking for.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >
> https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta
> >
> >
> > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units.  You could add any
> >> solar controller to the mix.
> >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
> >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
> >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
> >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
> >> To: AFMUG
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
> >>
> >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have a few
> >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC UPS to
> >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on the 48VDC,
> >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
> >>
> >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
> >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
> >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if the solar
> >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We live in a
> >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11 hours of
> >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an appropriately
> >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.
> >>
> >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can take 2 power
> >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just rectified AC?).
> >>
> >> Any help from the borg?
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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