[AFMUG] Ot: Covid natural immunity

[Steve Jones]

I hosted a super apreader event Saturday before last. We all had covid
around november 2020. So assuming omicron specific isn't different, natural
immunity is about a year and change, way better than the shot but not as
easy to obtain.

I got the aches this time. I really wish they would use the word ache and
let people know its more like gitmo torture. None of the vaccinated fared
any better.

I thought there was a moment of heading to the deathcamps we  call ICUs on
this, lucked out and it turned around.

This omicron is really suspect comparable to the OG covid. This had a more
natural feel than the last, like the scientists lost control of it and its
taken a natural progression (virii dont want hosts dead). None of the wird
shit, with the exception of my right thumb doing the micheal j fox again.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Robert]

54 volts, which is the highest that most common/decent priced gear is 
available. ( Solar is currently ~120v on the arrays, will go to 240v 
with new inverter/controller).   I will be adding another rack of 
batteries to go to 60KWh.   If the current plan continues we will up the 
solar to 12Kw of panels next year.   That will generate enough power to 
run at least one of the mini-splits and charge batteries slowly even 
with clouds.   The new inverter will have a passive load of about 
150watts, which is typical for these devices.  We will move to a 
different inverter/controller that can be ganged to get that all working 
next year.   All of this will cost 1/10th what running power from the 
grid would cost and we can get tax credits.


On 1/18/22 5:46 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Are your batteries 30KWh at what voltage? The higher voltage, the better.

A higher-end Tesla model S is about 3X that size (90 KWh).

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 4:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery
bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Bill Prince]

Are your batteries 30KWh at what voltage? The higher voltage, the better.

A higher-end Tesla model S is about 3X that size (90 KWh).

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 4:08 PM Robert  wrote:

> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
> a
>
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>
> thanks!!
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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[AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Robert]

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
a 
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt


planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..


thanks!!

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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Peter Kranz via AF]

Qty 2 Arista 7280SR, SR2, or SR3 platforms. Use Flexroute on the older SR for 
full tables, not necessary on SR2/SR3 platform. SR avail via ebay. Nobody has 
stock of new anything. The 7280SR should be a $7k box, but because nobody has 
stock it’s a $15k box right now.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

It appears to be a good deal.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, which 
is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs ourselves. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I guess a DNS somewhere.  But we use google and others mostly for DNS.  
DHCP could be used with reservations.  Probably ought to to keep from hard 
coding customers.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:35 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

Just don’t want to go too cheap on the router.  
Say 2X DIA on one side with BGP.  10Gbps interfaces.  
Then CGNAT inside, may not use it as I have more IPs than customers right now.  
What else do I need?

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:29 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

If I wanted to do something good on a low budget I would get 2 L3 switches.  
Stacking is a bonus, but not necessary.  They don’t have in chassis redundancy 
like a big router, but they do have lots of ports.

Compared to getting a new Juniper/Cisco/etc you’ll spend a lot less. 

Compared to getting an antique Junpier/Cisco/etc you’ll spend less on electric 
bill, less on backup power, less on cooling, and you can afford to keep a spare.

 

Just pay attention to whether it does BGP.  Divide your upstream connections 
between the pair of switches and same with your backhaul paths.  Share routes 
between the pair.  You have redundancy by having multiple boxes rather than 
having multiple cards like you would with the big toys.

 

I’m hesitant to suggest a specific model because honestly I would have to 
engage the Juniper and/or Arista vendor to talk about features.  But a lot of 
them will do BGP just fine.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb, 
sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is still 
new.  

 

I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for $30 
a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every juniper. 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

  I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware terribly 
out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it back into 
their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for the unit.Bye 
bye Juniper.  

   

  If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support system.  

   

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

It appears to be a good deal.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, 
which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs 
ourselves. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Just don’t want to go too cheap on the router.  
Say 2X DIA on one side with BGP.  10Gbps interfaces.  
 
Then CGNAT inside, may not use it as I have more IPs than customers right now.  
What else do I need?

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:29 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

If I wanted to do something good on a low budget I would get 2 L3 switches.  
Stacking is a bonus, but not necessary.  They don’t have in chassis redundancy 
like a big router, but they do have lots of ports.

Compared to getting a new Juniper/Cisco/etc you’ll spend a lot less. 

Compared to getting an antique Junpier/Cisco/etc you’ll spend less on electric 
bill, less on backup power, less on cooling, and you can afford to keep a spare.

 

Just pay attention to whether it does BGP.  Divide your upstream connections 
between the pair of switches and same with your backhaul paths.  Share routes 
between the pair.  You have redundancy by having multiple boxes rather than 
having multiple cards like you would with the big toys.

 

I’m hesitant to suggest a specific model because honestly I would have to 
engage the Juniper and/or Arista vendor to talk about features.  But a lot of 
them will do BGP just fine.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb, 
sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is still 
new.  

 

I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for $30 
a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every juniper. 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

  I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware terribly 
out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it back into 
their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for the unit.Bye 
bye Juniper.  

   

  If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support system.  

   

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

It appears to be a good deal.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, 
which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs 
ourselves. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[dmmoffett]

If I wanted to do something good on a low budget I would get 2 L3 switches.  
Stacking is a bonus, but not necessary.  They don’t have in chassis redundancy 
like a big router, but they do have lots of ports.

Compared to getting a new Juniper/Cisco/etc you’ll spend a lot less. 

Compared to getting an antique Junpier/Cisco/etc you’ll spend less on electric 
bill, less on backup power, less on cooling, and you can afford to keep a spare.

 

Just pay attention to whether it does BGP.  Divide your upstream connections 
between the pair of switches and same with your backhaul paths.  Share routes 
between the pair.  You have redundancy by having multiple boxes rather than 
having multiple cards like you would with the big toys.

 

I’m hesitant to suggest a specific model because honestly I would have to 
engage the Juniper and/or Arista vendor to talk about features.  But a lot of 
them will do BGP just fine.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

 

If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb, 
sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is still 
new.  

 

I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for $30 
a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every juniper. 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF <  
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware terribly 
out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it back into 
their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for the unit.Bye 
bye Juniper.  

 

If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support system.  

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF <  
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

It appears to be a good deal.  

 

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, which 
is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs ourselves. 

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[TJ Trout]

I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so
you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
ddos attacks

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Dmmoffett,
>
> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
> big turnoff.
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>
> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown 
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
> investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>
> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
> 2-3 years.
> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right
> now.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
> *To:* TJ Trout
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>
> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations
> with few customers might be an extra $500.
>
> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or
> HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>
> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>
> TJ
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of
> years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that
> same or better deal is still available.
>
> Anyone have other suggestions?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router


Dmmoffett,

All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


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Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

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Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:





….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a big turnoff.  
 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
 
The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
 
I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.
 
-Adam
 
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
 
Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company that has some Cisco big iron there.  
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  
 
From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router
 
What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now.  
 
From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
 
From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  
 
From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 
 
Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with few customers might be an extra $500.  
 
Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 
 
I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same. 
 
TJ
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:




Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same or better deal is still available.
 
Anyone have other suggestions?
 
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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router


Chuck,

I was able to get a 1U slot at our datacenter.  Originally started with a used IBM switch that had 1/10 gig ports.  Had a 10G transit back to my data center and had 3 different connections out the the Internet from the datacenter. Did vlans across the transit.   

I'm in the process of upgrading the transit to 100G.  Put in a used dell switch at data center with 6 100G ports and 48 1/10/25 gig ports.  Put the exact same switch in at my local hut.  Still running 3 providers at the datacenter.  Still using vlans.  I ended up connecting 3 BGP routers to the switch in my hut to distribute the data instead of doing one big BGP router.
   
--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:25:36 PM, you wrote:





We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company that has some Cisco big iron there.  
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  
 
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router
 
What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now.  
 
From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
 
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  
 
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
 
Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 
 
Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with few customers might be an extra $500.  
 
Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 
 
I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same. 
 
TJ
 
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:




Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same or better deal is still available.
 
Anyone have other suggestions?
 
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Steven Kenney via AF]

Plus you need to unlock certain license levels in bigger toys like this.
To enable L3 on a switch etc.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:21 PM Josh Baird  wrote:

> Not all features are honor-based (10G chassis interfaces on MX104 for
> example).
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:16 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> New juniper flex licensing is the same cost I think with a perpetual
>> license as prior so not a big deal I think. Also licensing is an honor
>> system.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router
>>>
>>> If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb,
>>> sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is
>>> still new.
>>>
>>> I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch
>>> for $30 a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every
>>> juniper.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
 terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
 back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
 the unit.Bye bye Juniper.

 If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
 system.

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

> It appears to be a good deal.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP
> table, which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different
> routs ourselves.
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Steven Kenney via AF]

That is an interesting read.  :)

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:49 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb,
> sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is
> still new.
>
> I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for
> $30 a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every
> juniper.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
>> terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
>> back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
>> the unit.Bye bye Juniper.
>>
>> If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
>> system.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It appears to be a good deal.
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
>>> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
>>> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
>>> ourselves.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Josh Baird]

Not all features are honor-based (10G chassis interfaces on MX104 for
example).

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:16 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> New juniper flex licensing is the same cost I think with a perpetual
> license as prior so not a big deal I think. Also licensing is an honor
> system.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router
>>
>> If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb,
>> sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is
>> still new.
>>
>> I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch
>> for $30 a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every
>> juniper.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
>>> terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
>>> back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
>>> the unit.Bye bye Juniper.
>>>
>>> If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
>>> system.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It appears to be a good deal.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
 This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
 which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
 ourselves.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
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>>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[TJ Trout]

New juniper flex licensing is the same cost I think with a perpetual
license as prior so not a big deal I think. Also licensing is an honor
system.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router
>
> If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb,
> sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is
> still new.
>
> I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for
> $30 a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every
> juniper.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
>> terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
>> back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
>> the unit.Bye bye Juniper.
>>
>> If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
>> system.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It appears to be a good deal.
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
>>> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
>>> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
>>> ourselves.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
>> is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is
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>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Like you used to be able to do for Cisco?  Maybe you can still do it.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb, 
sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is still 
new.  

I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for $30 
a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every juniper. 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

  I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware terribly 
out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it back into 
their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for the unit.Bye 
bye Juniper.  

  If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support system.  

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

It appears to be a good deal.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, 
which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs 
ourselves. 
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Steven Kenney via AF]

They practically give them away now because they know you need their
firmware.  If you are not patched and up to date you are vulnerable

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:44 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I think it will need a lot of different cards to work. Like a cpu card,
> Nat card etc. That's probably too much for what you need and the power
> consumption will be big. Maybe mx150 mx80 mx204 or possibly mx240
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:38 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> It appears to be a good deal.
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
>> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
>> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
>> ourselves.
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[TJ Trout]

If you want full support it has to be either new or a certified refurb,
sometimes your VAR can get one from eBay put on a support plan if it is
still new.

I have read that you can also get support on like an eight Port switch for
$30 a quarter which gives you access to all of the firmware for every
juniper.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:43 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

> I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
> terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
> back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
> the unit.Bye bye Juniper.
>
> If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
> system.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> It appears to be a good deal.
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
>> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
>> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
>> ourselves.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[TJ Trout]

I think it will need a lot of different cards to work. Like a cpu card, Nat
card etc. That's probably too much for what you need and the power
consumption will be big. Maybe mx150 mx80 mx204 or possibly mx240

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:38 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> It appears to be a good deal.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
> ourselves.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Steven Kenney via AF]

I bought an MX240 grey market reputable source off lease.  Firmware
terribly out of date.  Couldn't get the firmware for it so I had to get it
back into their support system.   They wanted $45k.+++   I paid $15k for
the unit.Bye bye Juniper.

If it were reasonable I'd absolutely got it back into their support
system.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> It appears to be a good deal.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
> This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table,
> which is what it would take to advertise our IP's along different routs
> ourselves.
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[AFMUG] Juniper Router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

It appears to be a good deal.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154795687599
This I think has six ten gigabit ports.  It can do a full L3 BGP table, which 
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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/18/22 11:32 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so 
don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.




Everyone is starting to get a boner for subscription licensing too.

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[dmmoffett]

….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a big 
turnoff.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t 
trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

 

I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably do 
everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches are 
cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, 
so there’s that too.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded 
investment with a great roi in headaches saved

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > wrote:

We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company 
that has some Cisco big iron there.  

It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it 
will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM

To: Chuck McCown 

Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

 

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch 
and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good 
option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown <  
ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:

To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last 
time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of 
customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  

What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now. 
 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM

To: TJ Trout 

Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  

No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM

To: Chuck McCown 

Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown <  
ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:

$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with 
few customers might be an extra $500.  

 

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, 
but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

 

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate 
the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their 
side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

 

TJ

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF <  
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

 

Anyone have other suggestions?

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[dmmoffett]

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t 
trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

 

I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably do 
everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches are 
cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, 
so there’s that too.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded 
investment with a great roi in headaches saved

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > wrote:

We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company 
that has some Cisco big iron there.  

It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it 
will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM

To: Chuck McCown 

Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

 

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch 
and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good 
option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown <  
ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:

To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last 
time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of 
customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  

What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now. 
 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM

To: TJ Trout 

Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  

No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM

To: Chuck McCown 

Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown <  
ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:

$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with 
few customers might be an extra $500.  

 

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, 
but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

 

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate 
the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their 
side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

 

TJ

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF <  
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

 

Anyone have other suggestions?

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[TJ Trout]

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
investment with a great roi in headaches saved

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>
> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
>> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
>> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
>> 2-3 years.
>> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
>> right now.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
>> *To:* TJ Trout
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
>> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
>> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>>
>>> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>>>
>>> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT
>>> locations with few customers might be an extra $500.
>>>
>>> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent
>>> or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>>>
>>> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
>>> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
>>> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple
 of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully
 that same or better deal is still available.

 Anyone have other suggestions?

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[TJ Trout]

It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He
will probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on
> > each.
>
> Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
> higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company 
that has some Cisco big iron there.  
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it 
will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch 
and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good 
option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  
Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton 
of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years. 
 
  What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right 
now.  

  From: Chuck McCown via AF 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
  To: TJ Trout 
  Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

  Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
  No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

  I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations 
with few customers might be an extra $500.  

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or 
HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll 
aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out 
of their side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

TJ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple 
of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that 
same or better deal is still available.

  Anyone have other suggestions?

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Chuck McCown via AF]

2 G burstable is like $670 and 10G flat is a bit over $900.  Cogent.  If my 
pipe to the datacenter is 10G I could put HE and Cogent both on there with 
2G burstable each.  Still room to grow.


-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on 
each.


Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[TJ Trout]

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
> 2-3 years.
> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right
> now.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
> *To:* TJ Trout
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>>
>> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT
>> locations with few customers might be an extra $500.
>>
>> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent
>> or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>>
>> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
>> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
>> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple
>>> of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully
>>> that same or better deal is still available.
>>>
>>> Anyone have other suggestions?
>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on 
each.


Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is 
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.


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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on each.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:12 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

I'm your sales contact for all carriers! Lol 

I just meant, get some quotes from both, worst case is you use the lower quote 
to have your desired carrier match. 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 10:55 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
  No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

  I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations 
with few customers might be an extra $500.  

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or 
HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll 
aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out 
of their side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

TJ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple 
of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that 
same or better deal is still available.

  Anyone have other suggestions?

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[AFMUG] Dual DIA router

[Chuck McCown via AF]

To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last 
time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of 
customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now. 
 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

  Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

  Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations 
with few customers might be an extra $500.  

  Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or 
HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

  I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate 
the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their 
side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

  TJ

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

Anyone have other suggestions?

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[TJ Trout]

I'm your sales contact for all carriers! Lol

I just meant, get some quotes from both, worst case is you use the lower
quote to have your desired carrier match.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 10:55 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>>
>> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT
>> locations with few customers might be an extra $500.
>>
>> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent
>> or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>>
>> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
>> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
>> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple
>>> of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully
>>> that same or better deal is still available.
>>>
>>> Anyone have other suggestions?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having 
the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

  Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

  Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations 
with few customers might be an extra $500.  

  Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or 
HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

  I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate 
the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their 
side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

  TJ

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

Anyone have other suggestions?

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[TJ Trout]

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>
> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations
> with few customers might be an extra $500.
>
> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or
> HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>
> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>
> TJ
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple
>> of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully
>> that same or better deal is still available.
>>
>> Anyone have other suggestions?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Chuck McCown via AF]

$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with 
few customers might be an extra $500.  

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, 
but they have really good routes and the full internet. 

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll aggregate 
the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so out of their 
side of the deal, you still pay the same. 

TJ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

  Anyone have other suggestions?

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[TJ Trout]

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations
with few customers might be an extra $500.

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or
HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.

I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.

TJ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of
> years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that
> same or better deal is still available.
>
> Anyone have other suggestions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Mike Hammett]

To have the whole Internet with either Cogent or HE, you'll need an additional 
provider. That's Cogent's fault for refusing to peer with HE. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown via AF"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: "Chuck McCown"  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:35:30 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing 




Shopping for DIA again. Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote. A couple of years 
ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month. Hopefully that same or 
better deal is still available. 

Anyone have other suggestions? 

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[dmmoffett]

Where I am now we're buying 100G.  The cost delta from 10G to 100G was
...strangely small.  

..but then you need a router with 100G interfaces and that's not cheap.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:36 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that
same or better deal is still available.

 

Anyone have other suggestions?

 

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[AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple of 
years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully that same 
or better deal is still available.

Anyone have other suggestions?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: damn Chuck, you guys are serious

[Chuck McCown via AF]

That is funny.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2022, at 6:39 AM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> Lol
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[AFMUG] OT: damn Chuck, you guys are serious

[Jaime Solorza]

Lol
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