Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
Not the SPX25. You're thinking of an HDD. This is what I'm working with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hteV8Xthxq4&ab_channel=Vermeer On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 4:32 PM Chuck McCown wrote: > Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Cc:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore > attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote: > >> Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable >> locators. >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >> >> Carl, >> >> Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. As >> to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the drill >> sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech says it's >> 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other utilities). >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson >> wrote: >> >>> How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. >>> >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph *From:* Carl Peterson *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing on > a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. Ground > the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a ground rod. > That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what the > locator > works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will do a good > job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. The super cheap ones > will find it as easy and the super expensive units. Finding a reliable > depth is more difficult. The only brand I have every used where I could > trust the depth was a Metrotel. But even the cheapest unit can find depth > by locating a null, orienting the pick up coil at 45 degrees and then > finding the null off to the side of the of the cable. Distance from the > center null to the side null is the depth. > > The higher the power the farther you can locate. But that just means > you don’t have to move the transmitter so much. In my experience I am > generally within a quarter mile of the transmitter or less and all of them > will do that distance. > > Some of them will also passively locate 60 cycle power. Some of them > locate based on radio signals picked up by wires and pipes and > re-radiated. I have had limited success with that on high pressure gas. > > Many of them have an RF mode where you connect to some object to track > but the far end is not grounded. So you just have a capacitive coupling > between the thing you want to locate and the earth. Not much current > flows > so you do not get much distance. For example a fish tape down a plastic > duct is located this way. But you will only get dozens or perhaps > hundreds > of feed if you are lucky. > > Multiple frequencies have their uses. Older units were down in the > audible range like 800 Hz. You can go a very long way with those > frequecies. But they also bleed off to other cables and pipes. Higher > frequencies are better to get finer resolution but they do not transmit as > far. 82 or 84KHz is a popular frequency. > > Some brands put a coded signal out so only their receiver can pick up > t
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 Steve, I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones wrote: > theres septic sondes you can use for rodding > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson > wrote: > >> Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end of >> my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. >> Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? >> >> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF >> wrote: >> >>> Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. >>> >>> *From:* Josh Luthman >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>> >>> The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore >>> attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable locators. *From:* Josh Luthman *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Carl, Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech says it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other utilities). On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: > How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote: > >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph >> >> >> *From:* Carl Peterson >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >> >> Thanks Chuck, >> >> That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a >> decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF >> wrote: >> >>> Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing >>> on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. >>> Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a >>> ground >>> rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what >>> the >>> locator works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will >>> do a >>> good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. The super >>> cheap >>> ones will find it as easy and the super expensive units. Finding a >>> reliable depth is more difficult. The only brand I have every used >>> where >>> I could trust the depth was a Metrotel. But even the cheapest unit can >>> find depth by locating a null, orienting the pick up coil at 45 degrees >>> and >>> then finding the null off to the side of the of the cable. Distance >>> from >>> the center null to the side null is the depth. >>> >>> The higher the power the farther you can locate. But that just >>> means you don’t have to move the transmitter so much. In my experience >>> I >>> am generally within a quarter mile of the transmitter or less and all of >>> them will do that distance. >>> >>> Some of them will also passively locate 60 cycle power. Some of >>> them locate based on radio signals picked up by wires and pipes and >>> re-radiated. I have had limited success with tha
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
Theyre probably made with commercial and not industrial components since theyre expected to be lost in the septic tank On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 9:25 AM Carl Peterson wrote: > Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am > going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. > https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 > > Steve, > I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the > regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz > which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones > wrote: > >> theres septic sondes you can use for rodding >> >> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson >> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end >>> of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. >>> Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. *From:* Josh Luthman *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Cc:* Chuck McCown *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable > locators. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > Carl, > > Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. > As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the > drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech > says > it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other > utilities). > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson < > cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: > >> How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. >> >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF >> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph >>> >>> >>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>> >>> Thanks Chuck, >>> >>> That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a >>> decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a ground rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what the locator works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will do a good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. The super cheap ones will find it as easy and the super expensive units. Finding a reliable depth is more difficult. The only brand I have every used where I could trust the depth was a Metrotel. But even the cheapest unit can find depth by locating a null, orienting the pick up coil at 45 degrees and then finding the null off to the side of the of the cable. Distance from the center null to the side null is the depth. The higher the power the farther you can locate. But that just means you don’t have to move the transmitter so much. In my experience I am generally within a
Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1016518071797535 is the bore hole, its an hdd jobs group. Post what youre looking for and youll get a bunch of responses. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 2:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Rolling the fiber out on top of the ground. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:20 PM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost > > Well that's $1 foot =) > > On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 12:31 PM Chuck McCown wrote: > >> I will take the $10 every day if it is good plowing. I can do 1K in a >> half hour. >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> *Sent:* Friday, December 23, 2022 10:18 AM >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost >> >> Well would you rather do 10k feet in a day for $10k or 1k feet in a day >> for $7k? >> >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 10:47 AM Chuck McCown wrote: >> >>> My plow cost me $125K used and takes a semi to move. You will not get >>> the plow, fuel, operator and mobilization for $1/foot unless it is 1M feet >>> through Nebraska sod with no stops. >>> >>> *From:* Josh Luthman >>> *Sent:* Friday, December 23, 2022 6:11 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost >>> >>> $2.25 for plowing here, should be $1 if you ask me. >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 3:39 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> I wish I could get that for plowing. Normally it is in the $4.50 range assuming wide open range. I have seen it as low as $1.50. *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2022 1:33 PM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost The highest I saw was $50/ft. $6-8 sounds like plowing prices. I’d expect at least $15/ft for HDD. Whoever’s doing it for $6-8/ft don’t lose that guy’s number. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:27 AM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost That varies greatly. Somewhere between $6-8/ft here in central Texas rural roads and rural subdivisions. Anywhere with more obstructions will cost significantly more due to the effort to avoid other utilities. Jim Bouse Owner - Brazos WiFi 979-999-7000 http://www.brazoswifi.com *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2022 9:24 AM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost What is the going rate per foot for HDD drilling and pullback of two SDR11 ducts and a trace wire? Very sandy soil in the FL panhandle. All materials provided? Around 4-5K' split into three or four runs. -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 Steve, I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones wrote: theres septic sondes you can use for rodding On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson wrote: Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable locators. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Carl, Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech says it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other utilities). On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson wrote: How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph From: Carl Peterson Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a ground rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what the locator works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will do a good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. The super cheap ones will find it as easy and the super expensive units. Finding a reliable depth is more difficult. The only brand I have every used where I could trust the depth was a Metrotel. But even the cheapest unit can find depth by locating a null, orienting the pick up coil at 45 degrees and then finding the null off to the side of the of the cable. Distance from the center null to the side null is the depth. The higher the power the farther you can locate. But that just means you don’t have to move the transmitter so much. In my experience I am generally within a quarter mile of the transmitter or less and all of them will do that distance. Some of them will also passively locate 60 cycle power. Some of them locate based o
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
The leica duct sonde 33 (12") is $440. It obviously isn't the same as a HDD sonde but I wonder if the longer antenna coil would help. There are also sondes like the Metrotech D23 which is a flexible sonde: 0.9" x 17.3" (23mm x 456mm). Am I flushing money down the toilet? Should I just buy a few $35 flushable sondes and tie them to the end of my duct rod? On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 2:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty > large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or > larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. > > *From:* Carl Peterson > *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am > going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. > https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 > > Steve, > I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the > regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz > which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones > wrote: > >> theres septic sondes you can use for rodding >> >> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson >> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end >>> of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. >>> Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. *From:* Josh Luthman *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Cc:* Chuck McCown *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable > locators. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > Carl, > > Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. > As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the > drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech > says > it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other > utilities). > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson < > cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: > >> How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. >> >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF >> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph >>> >>> >>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>> >>> Thanks Chuck, >>> >>> That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a >>> decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a ground rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what the locator works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will do a good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. The super cheap ones will find it as easy and the super expensive units. Finding a >>
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
The flushable beacons I have played with are pretty wide for 1.25” conduit. I am sure the longer sondes will transmit a greater distance. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 2:42 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The leica duct sonde 33 (12") is $440. It obviously isn't the same as a HDD sonde but I wonder if the longer antenna coil would help. There are also sondes like the Metrotech D23 which is a flexible sonde: 0.9" x 17.3" (23mm x 456mm). Am I flushing money down the toilet? Should I just buy a few $35 flushable sondes and tie them to the end of my duct rod? On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 2:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 Steve, I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones wrote: theres septic sondes you can use for rodding On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson wrote: Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable locators. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Carl, Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech says it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other utilities). On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson wrote: How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph From: Carl Peterson Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current flowing on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or cable shield. Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the cable and a ground rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and that is what the locator works off of. If you have trace current then all of them will do a good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
Thanks Chuck. I ordered a few flushables for shits and giggles. We have a bunch of 4" ducts we need to trace ASAP. I'll look at ordering a 12" Leica one or the 17" D23 if it isn't too expensive. On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 4:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > The flushable beacons I have played with are pretty wide for 1.25” > conduit. I am sure the longer sondes will transmit a greater distance. > > *From:* Carl Peterson > *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 2:42 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > The leica duct sonde 33 (12") is $440. It obviously isn't the same as a > HDD sonde but I wonder if the longer antenna coil would help. There are > also sondes like the Metrotech D23 which is a flexible sonde: 0.9" x 17.3" > (23mm x 456mm). > > Am I flushing money down the toilet? Should I just buy a few $35 > flushable sondes and tie them to the end of my duct rod? > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 2:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote: > >> Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty >> large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or >> larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. >> >> *From:* Carl Peterson >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >> >> Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am >> going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. >> https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 >> >> Steve, >> I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the >> regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz >> which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. >> >> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones >> wrote: >> >>> theres septic sondes you can use for rodding >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson < >>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >>> Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Cc:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore > attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote: > >> Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable >> locators. >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >> >> Carl, >> >> Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. >> As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the >> drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech >> says >> it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other >> utilities). >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson < >> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >> >>> How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. >>> >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> wrote: >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph *From:* Carl Peterson *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make a decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to ma
Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units
You might need a locator that matches the frequency of the flushable beacon. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 3:40 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck. I ordered a few flushables for shits and giggles. We have a bunch of 4" ducts we need to trace ASAP. I'll look at ordering a 12" Leica one or the 17" D23 if it isn't too expensive. On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 4:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: The flushable beacons I have played with are pretty wide for 1.25” conduit. I am sure the longer sondes will transmit a greater distance. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 2:42 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The leica duct sonde 33 (12") is $440. It obviously isn't the same as a HDD sonde but I wonder if the longer antenna coil would help. There are also sondes like the Metrotech D23 which is a flexible sonde: 0.9" x 17.3" (23mm x 456mm). Am I flushing money down the toilet? Should I just buy a few $35 flushable sondes and tie them to the end of my duct rod? On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 2:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. From: Carl Peterson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 Steve, I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones wrote: theres septic sondes you can use for rodding On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson wrote: Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the end of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground cable locators. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Carl, Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 retail. As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I spotted the drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator tech says it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other utilities). On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson wrote: How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAH8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph From: Carl Peterson Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units Thanks Chuck, That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just
