subject:"\[AFMUG\] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home $and Fading Out$ \| Space"

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-21 Thread Mike Hammett

Oh, nice, I hadn't noticed that yet. I just saw it driving by on 88. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 8:49:39 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 

Did you notice how all the dishes at the CME have custom Radomes with the 
datacenter logo stenciled on them. 


On 6/21/2019 8:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Or they could go to the Blast From The Past store and buy a copy of Gray’s 
Sports Almanac 1950-2000. Then time travel back to 1955. You’ll need a 
DeLorean. 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 7:29 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 



A whole bunch of new microwave dishes on the brand new tower at CME as well. 
I'd say within the last 90 days, probably less than 60 days. 

That said, they like to send the same data over many paths. First to receive 
wins. The shortwave may be the most-preferred, falling back to microwave, then 
to fiber. 



I know of four shortwave sites at the CME side. There may be more. 



The last I knew, the shortwave links weren't working out that well, but maybe 
they've got the links working now. *shrugs* 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Matt Hoppes" < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com >, "Eric Kuhnke" < 
eric.kuh...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:18:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 

Are you sure about that? Because as of earlier this year the links are 
still being put in in Pennsylvania. 

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: 
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the 
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete... Think big 
> ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data 
> rates. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com 
> < mailto:part15...@gmail.com >> wrote: 
> 
> This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is 
> expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low 
> latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than 
> trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash 
> traders. 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs 
> 
> bp 
>  
> 
> On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com < mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 
>> I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things. 
>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM 
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are 
>> All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space 
>> 
>> That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the 
>> system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites 
>> per ring, and (I think) 24 rings. 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>> On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than 
>>> that. Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink 
>>> from satellite to user terminal. They have two polarities, not 
>>> unlike us. We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
>>> That's 20gbps in a given geographic area. It doesn't matter how 
>>> many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given 
>>> satellite is. I don't know how big that geographic area will be 
>>> exactly. 
>>> 
>>> -Adam 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> There are whole bunches of risk factors. 
>>>> 
>>>> Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an 
>>>> if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat 
>>>> laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the 
>>>> system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth 
>>>> stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be 
>>>> multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make 
>>>> the system capacity flexible. 
>>>> 
>>>> IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body 
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-21 Thread Nate Burke

Did you notice how all the dishes at the CME have custom Radomes with 
the datacenter logo stenciled on them.


On 6/21/2019 8:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Or they could go to the Blast From The Past store and buy a copy of 
Gray’s Sports Almanac 1950-2000.  Then time travel back to 1955.  
You’ll need a DeLorean.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, June 21, 2019 7:29 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space


A whole bunch of new microwave dishes on the brand new tower at CME as 
well. I'd say within the last 90 days, probably less than 60 days.


That said, they like to send the same data over many paths. First to 
receive wins. The shortwave may be the most-preferred, falling back to 
microwave, then to fiber.


I know of four shortwave sites at the CME side. There may be more.

The last I knew, the shortwave links weren't working out that well, 
but maybe they've got the links working now. *shrugs*




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>



*From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>, "Eric Kuhnke" <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>

*Sent: *Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:18:46 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space


Are you sure about that?  Because as of earlier this year the links are
still being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think big
> ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data
> rates.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com%20%0b>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
>     expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
>     latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
>     trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
>     traders.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs
>
>     bp
>     
>
>     On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

>>     I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
>>     *From:* Bill Prince
>>     *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
>>     *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
>>     All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>>
>>     That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
>>     system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
>>     per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.
>>
>>     bp
>>     
>>
>>     On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>     People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
>>>     that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
>>>     from satellite to user terminal. They have two polarities, not
>>>     unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz.
>>>     That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
>>>     many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
>>>     satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
>>>     exactly.
>>>
>>>     -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     There are whole bunches of risk factors.
>>>>
>>>>     Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
>>>>     if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
>>>>     laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-21 Thread Ken Hohhof

Or they could go to the Blast From The Past store and buy a copy of Gray’s 
Sports Almanac 1950-2000.  Then time travel back to 1955.  You’ll need a 
DeLorean.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 7:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

 

A whole bunch of new microwave dishes on the brand new tower at CME as well. 
I'd say within the last 90 days, probably less than 60 days.

That said, they like to send the same data over many paths. First to receive 
wins. The shortwave may be the most-preferred, falling back to microwave, then 
to fiber.

 

I know of four shortwave sites at the CME side. There may be more.

 

The last I knew, the shortwave links weren't working out that well, but maybe 
they've got the links working now. *shrugs*



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >, "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:18:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Are you sure about that?  Because as of earlier this year the links are 
still being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the 
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think big 
> ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data 
> rates.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com%20%0b> 
> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
> expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
> latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
> trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
> traders.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>     I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
>> All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>>
>> That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
>> system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
>> per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
>>> that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
>>> from satellite to user terminal.  They have two polarities, not
>>> unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
>>> That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
>>> many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
>>> satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
>>> exactly.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are whole bunches of risk factors.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
>>>> if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
>>>> laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
>>>> system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
>>>> stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
>>>> multi

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-21 Thread Mike Hammett


A whole bunch of new microwave dishes on the brand new tower at CME as well. 
I'd say within the last 90 days, probably less than 60 days. 

That said, they like to send the same data over many paths. First to receive 
wins. The shortwave may be the most-preferred, falling back to microwave, then 
to fiber. 


I know of four shortwave sites at the CME side. There may be more. 


The last I knew, the shortwave links weren't working out that well, but maybe 
they've got the links working now. *shrugs* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" , "Eric Kuhnke" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:18:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 

Are you sure about that? Because as of earlier this year the links are 
still being put in in Pennsylvania. 

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: 
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the 
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete... Think big 
> ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data 
> rates. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote: 
> 
> This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is 
> expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low 
> latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than 
> trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash 
> traders. 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs 
> 
> bp 
>  
> 
> On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: 
>> I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things. 
>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM 
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are 
>> All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space 
>> 
>> That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the 
>> system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites 
>> per ring, and (I think) 24 rings. 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>> On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than 
>>> that. Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink 
>>> from satellite to user terminal. They have two polarities, not 
>>> unlike us. We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
>>> That's 20gbps in a given geographic area. It doesn't matter how 
>>> many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given 
>>> satellite is. I don't know how big that geographic area will be 
>>> exactly. 
>>> 
>>> -Adam 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> There are whole bunches of risk factors. 
>>>> 
>>>> Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an 
>>>> if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat 
>>>> laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the 
>>>> system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth 
>>>> stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be 
>>>> multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make 
>>>> the system capacity flexible. 
>>>> 
>>>> IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body 
>>>> blows to the competition. 
>>>> 
>>>> There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into 
>>>> a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working 
>>>> (so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well. 
>>>> 
>>>> bp 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those 
>>>>> profits to expand into the satellite Internet business. But 
>>>>> actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without 
>>>>> accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins 
>>>>> are very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is 
>>>>> softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for 
>>>>> profits. No doubt it helps if you can launch your own 
>>>>> satellites, maybe even having them ride al

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-18 Thread Chuck McCown

Hmmm, troposcatter would work for this.
Not sure you could actually license a link.
-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:05 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

CME finally has their own tower operational with about a dozen dishes on it. 
No big-ass yagis.  You'd think there would be a disadvantage not being on 
the tower right next to the datacenter, that might trump any speed-of-light 
advantage.  Also I assume those low frequency links are bouncing off the 
troposphere or utilizing groundwave propagation or something, and subject to 
outages during certain atmospheric conditions, so they would need backup 
links?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Eric Kuhnke 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Are you sure about that?  Because as of earlier this year the links are 
still being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the
microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think
big ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low
data rates.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
traders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs

bp

On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
    All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.

bp

On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
from satellite to user terminal.  They have two polarities, not
unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz.
That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
exactly.

-Adam

On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

There are whole bunches of risk factors.

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make
the system capacity flexible.

IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
blows to the competition.

There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into
a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working
(so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.

bp

On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those
profits to expand into the satellite Internet business.  But
actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without
accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins
are very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
profits.  No doubt it helps if you can launch your own
satellites, maybe even having them ride along while you get
paid to launch stuff for paying customers.  But this sounds
like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If
it wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett
*Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites
Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth
stations as opposed to one or two earth stations that legacy

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-18 Thread Ken Hohhof

CME finally has their own tower operational with about a dozen dishes on it.  
No big-ass yagis.  You'd think there would be a disadvantage not being on the 
tower right next to the datacenter, that might trump any speed-of-light 
advantage.  Also I assume those low frequency links are bouncing off the 
troposphere or utilizing groundwave propagation or something, and subject to 
outages during certain atmospheric conditions, so they would need backup links?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Eric Kuhnke 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Are you sure about that?  Because as of earlier this year the links are still 
being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the 
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think 
> big ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low 
> data rates.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
> expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
> latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
> trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
> traders.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>> I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>     *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
>> All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>>
>> That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
>> system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
>> per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
>>> that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
>>> from satellite to user terminal.  They have two polarities, not
>>> unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
>>> That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
>>> many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
>>> satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
>>> exactly.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are whole bunches of risk factors.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
>>>> if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
>>>> laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
>>>> system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
>>>> stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
>>>> multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make
>>>> the system capacity flexible.
>>>>
>>>> IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
>>>> blows to the competition.
>>>>
>>>> There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into
>>>> a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working
>>>> (so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those
>>>>> profits to expand into the satellite Internet business.  But
>>>>> actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without
>>>>> accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins
>>>>> are very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
>>>>> softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
>>>>> profits.  No doubt it helps if you can launch your own
>>>>> satellites, maybe even having them ride along while you get
&

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-18 Thread Tim Withrow via AF


Any idea how much transport or transit will cost using these birds?
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 Matt Hoppes  wrote:
Are you sure about that?  Because as of earlier this year the links are 
still being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
> Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the 
> microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think big 
> ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data 
> rates.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>    This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
>    expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
>    latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
>    trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
>    traders.
> 
>        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs
> 
>    bp
>    
> 
>    On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>    I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
>>    *From:* Bill Prince
>>    *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
>>    *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
>>    All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>>
>>    That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
>>    system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
>>    per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.
>>
>>    bp
>>    
>>
>>    On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>    People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
>>>    that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
>>>    from satellite to user terminal.  They have two polarities, not
>>>    unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
>>>    That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
>>>    many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
>>>    satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
>>>    exactly.
>>>
>>>    -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>    On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    There are whole bunches of risk factors.
>>>>
>>>>    Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
>>>>    if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
>>>>    laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
>>>>    system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
>>>>    stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
>>>>    multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make
>>>>    the system capacity flexible.
>>>>
>>>>    IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
>>>>    blows to the competition.
>>>>
>>>>    There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into
>>>>    a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working
>>>>    (so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.
>>>>
>>>>    bp
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>    On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those
>>>>>    profits to expand into the satellite Internet business.  But
>>>>>    actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without
>>>>>    accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins
>>>>>    are very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
>>>>>    softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
>>>>>    profits.  No doubt it helps if you can launch your own
>>>>>    satellites, maybe even having them ride along while you get
>>>>>    paid to launch stuff for paying customers.  But this sounds
>>>>>    like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If
>>>>>    it wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Mike
>>>>>    Hammett
>>>>>    *Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
>>>>>    *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>    *Subject:* Re:

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-18 Thread Matt Hoppes

Are you sure about that? Because as of earlier this year the links are
still being put in in Pennsylvania.

On 6/18/19 4:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the
microwave path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete... Think big
ass yagi-uda antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data
rates.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency than
trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash
traders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs

On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the
system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites
per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.

On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
that. Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
from satellite to user terminal. They have two polarities, not
unlike us. We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz.
That's 20gbps in a given geographic area. It doesn't matter how

many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
satellite is. I don't know how big that geographic area will be
exactly.

-Adam

On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

There are whole bunches of risk factors.

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make
the system capacity flexible.

IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
blows to the competition.

There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into
a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working
(so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.

On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those
profits to expand into the satellite Internet business. But
actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without
accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins
are very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
profits. No doubt it helps if you can launch your own
satellites, maybe even having them ride along while you get
paid to launch stuff for paying customers. But this sounds
like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money. If
it wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett
*Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites
Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth
stations as opposed to one or two earth stations that legacy
platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe across one or two birds,
and back down to the fiber-fed earth stations. I've seen the
numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth at each
one.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Tim Wi

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-18 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Most serious HFT moved to shortwave type links a while back, the microwave
path between the CME and New Jersey is obsolete...  Think big ass yagi-uda
antennas, dipoles, much lower frequencies, very low data rates.



On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system is
> expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low latency. This
> video speculates that it will have lower latency than trans-Atlantic fiber.
> Ergo, this may become the new darling of flash traders.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All
> Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>
>
> That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the system
> capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites per ring, and (I
> think) 24 rings.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than that.
> Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink from satellite to
> user terminal.  They have two polarities, not unlike us.  We could
> generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz.  That's 20gbps in a given
> geographic area.  It doesn't matter how many satellites there are, or what
> the capacity of a given satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic
> area will be exactly.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> There are whole bunches of risk factors.
>
> Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an if; note
> that this first batch does not include the sat-sat laser link capability),
> I have not seen a real estimate of the system capacity. I would presume
> there would be separate earth stations for each orbital plane. There could
> even conceivably be multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which
> would make the system capacity flexible.
>
> IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body blows to the
> competition.
>
> There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into a limited
> demand situation, but now that it seems to be working (so far), that market
> opportunity may be shifting as well.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those profits to
> expand into the satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate
> whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks, and even if it is
> profitable, the margins are very thin.  Reportedly the geostationary launch
> business is softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
> profits.  No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites, maybe
> even having them ride along while you get paid to launch stuff for paying
> customers.  But this sounds like a pretty risky venture, paid for with
> borrowed money.  If it wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All
> Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>
>
>
> I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations as
> opposed to one or two earth stations that legacy platforms have. Up to the
> bird, maybe across one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth
> stations. I've seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real
> bandwidth at each one.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Tim Withrow via AF"

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-15 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
This is the best explanation I've seen (so far) of how the system
  is expected to work. One thing I didn't think about was the low
  latency. This video speculates that it will have lower latency
  than trans-Atlantic fiber. Ergo, this may become the new darling
  of flash traders.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs

bp



On 6/3/2019 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60
  Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading
  Out) | Space
  

 
  
  
That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us
  what the system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~
  600 satellites per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.
 
bp



On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam
  Moffett wrote:

People always ask about system capacity, but
  it's simpler than that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of
  spectrum for the downlink from satellite to user
  terminal.  They have two polarities, not unlike us.  We
  could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz.  That's
  20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
  many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
  satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area
  will be exactly.
  
  -Adam
  
  
  On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill
Prince wrote:
  
  
There are whole bunches of risk factors. 

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is
  still an if; note that this first batch does not
  include the sat-sat laser link capability), I have not
  seen a real estimate of the system capacity. I would
  presume there would be separate earth stations for
  each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be
  multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which
  would make the system capacity flexible.
IDK if they're making money or not, but they are
  serving body blows to the competition.
There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was
  going into a limited demand situation, but now that it
  seems to be working (so far), that market opportunity
  may be shifting as well.
 
bp



On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken
  Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
You’d think that SpaceX is
  highly profitable and is using those profits to
  expand into the satellite Internet business.  But
  actually there is debate whether SpaceX is
  profitable without accounting tricks, and even if
  it is profitable, the margins are very thin. 
  Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
  softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to
  Starlink for profits.  No doubt it helps if you
  can launch your own satellites, maybe even having
  them ride along while you get paid to launch stuff
  for paying customers.  But this sounds like a
  pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed
  money.  If it wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon,
  right?
 
 

  
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60
  Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and
  Fading Out) | Space
  

 

  I
  would suspect they are going to have hundreds
  of earth stations

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-04 Thread dave

Capt Dan... You got no legs :)

On 6/4/19 8:33 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Fundamentally except for the quantities. Starlink is putting up almost 
as many birds per launch as Iridium put up in total.

bp

On 6/3/2019 7:36 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
If you look at Iridium and adjust for inflation the cost should be 
easily attainable since it was a public company.

Fundamentally the same network right?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 7:44 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:

Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1
(assume 5x reuse & refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in launch
costs.  Assume another 1/4b for the birds and 1/4b for ops. 
You've got a world wide network for 3/4b per year.

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>
> Ek. That’s rather expensive.
>
>> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they
will have to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do
you just let one fail and send a new one up?
>>>
 On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

 If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...

> On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com 
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-04 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Fundamentally except for the quantities. Starlink is putting up
  almost as many birds per launch as Iridium put up in total. 



bp



On 6/3/2019 7:36 PM, Lewis Bergman
  wrote:


  
  If you look at Iridium and adjust for inflation
the cost should be easily attainable since it was a public
company.
Fundamentally the same network right?
  
  
  
On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 7:44 PM
  Carl Peterson 
  wrote:


  Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1
  (assume 5x reuse & refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in
  launch costs.  Assume another 1/4b for the birds and 1/4b for
  ops.  You've got a world wide network for 3/4b per year.  
  
  > On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
  > 
  > Ek. That’s rather expensive. 
  > 
  >> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince 
  wrote:
  >> 
  >> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is
  that they will have to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace
  the dead ones.
  >> 
  >> 
  >> bp
  >> 
  >> 
  >>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  >>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many
  satellites?  Or do you just let one fail and send a new one
  up?
  >>> 
   On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews
  
  wrote:
   
   If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share
  what I find out...
   
  > On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen
  wrote:
  > Anyone planning to get one and give it a
  try?
   -- 
   AF mailing list
   AF@af.afmug.com
   http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >> 
  >> -- 
  >> AF mailing list
  >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  > 
  > -- 
  > AF mailing list
  > AF@af.afmug.com
  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-04 Thread castarritt

I think the biggest hurdle for them to serve residential customers is going
to be the cost of the phased array CPE.  They seem to think they can get it
under $300 with mass production, but all of us should know what happens
when you put cheap complicated electronics up on peoples' roofs.  I just
don't see them coming out with a fast, cheap, and reliable (pick two) CPE
any time soon, and I bet this is why they are now saying that their initial
business model is B2B.

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 4:39 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Consider, Starlink is going to be pretty busy for a good while replacing
> a lot of other legacy services, serving big customers like the US
> military, every mobile data service, and otherwise figuring out their
> business model for another 5 years.   I think we might have a great shot
> at using these for replacing our backhauls for another 5 years after
> that before they start looking at actual consumer sales.   Oh yeah and
> Tesla cars, gotta figure they are going to be including service through
> starlink with the antenna built in after a couple of year.  IF the
> performance is good and the reliability doesn't suck I imagine every
> vehicle would look at this as a great alternative to cell service.+
>
> I cannot imagine they are going to be selling for less than $150/month
> for a good while...
>
> On 06/01/2019 02:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural
> > America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on
> > China's "great firewall"?
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >>
> >> I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in
> >> mind is that instead of robust competition, what could occur is
> >> “disruptive” pricing, having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting
> >> the competition.  And now some new entrant is the only game in town.
> >> And if it turns out to be unreliable, or not to  have enough
> >> capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or their
> >> satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t
> >> switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with
> >> online stores and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick
> >> and mortar store, from Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry,
> >> they don’t exist anymore.
> >>
> >> This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go
> >> bankrupt because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will be lots
> >> of choices out in the middle of nowhere driving the price down without
> >> any of them turning off the lights, seems a little naïve.
> >>
> >> And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook,
> >> etc. would never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve.
> >>
> >> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All
> >> Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
> >>
> >> Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another
> >> 23,000 miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> >>
> >> Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles...
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  >> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few
> >> hundred miles up.
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with
> >> like...
> >> > clouds?
> >> >
> >> > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >> >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
> >> >>
> >> >> bp
> >> >> 
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
> >> >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Lewis Bergman

If you look at Iridium and adjust for inflation the cost should be easily
attainable since it was a public company.
Fundamentally the same network right?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 7:44 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

>
> Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1 (assume 5x
> reuse & refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in launch costs.  Assume another
> 1/4b for the birds and 1/4b for ops.  You've got a world wide network for
> 3/4b per year.
>
> > On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > Ek. That’s rather expensive.
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >>
> >> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they will have
> to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just
> let one fail and send a new one up?
> >>>
>  On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
> 
>  If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...
> 
> > On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> > Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
>  --
>  AF mailing list
>  AF@af.afmug.com
>  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Nate Burke

Anyone remember the movie 'Antitrust'?  I'm having visions of when they 
turned on all the satellites.   I'm guessing this will be similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0zkD7uOyco

On 6/3/2019 7:55 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:
And with them replaced birds that often it allows them place newer 
generation birds faster than the geostate stationary companies.

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 8:44 PM Carl Peterson > wrote:

Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1 (assume
5x reuse & refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in launch costs. 
Assume another 1/4b for the birds and 1/4b for ops.  You've got a

world wide network for 3/4b per year.

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>
> Ek. That’s rather expensive.
>
>> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they
will have to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do
you just let one fail and send a new one up?
>>>
 On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

 If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...

> On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com 
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Zach Underwood

And with them replaced birds that often it allows them place newer
generation birds faster than the geostate stationary companies.

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 8:44 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

>
> Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1 (assume 5x
> reuse & refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in launch costs.  Assume another
> 1/4b for the birds and 1/4b for ops.  You've got a world wide network for
> 3/4b per year.
>
> > On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > Ek. That’s rather expensive.
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >>
> >> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they will have
> to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just
> let one fail and send a new one up?
> >>>
>  On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
> 
>  If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...
> 
> > On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> > Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
>  --
>  AF mailing list
>  AF@af.afmug.com
>  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Carl Peterson


Only 10 launches a year on F9.  Say 15m for S2, 10m for S1 (assume 5x reuse & 
refurb cost).  So 1/4b per year in launch costs.  Assume another 1/4b for the 
birds and 1/4b for ops.  You've got a world wide network for 3/4b per year.  

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Ek. That’s rather expensive. 
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> 
>> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they will have to 
>> launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just let 
>>> one fail and send a new one up?
>>> 
 On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
 
 If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...
 
> On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Matt Hoppes

Ek. That’s rather expensive. 

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they will have to 
> launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just let one 
>> fail and send a new one up?
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...
>>> 
 On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
 Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Bill Prince

Once they get all the bird flying, one estimate is that they will have 
to launch ~~ 600 per year just to replace the dead ones.



bp


On 6/3/2019 3:19 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just let one 
fail and send a new one up?


On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:

If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...


On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Matt Hoppes

How do you maintain a fleet of that many satellites?  Or do you just let one 
fail and send a new one up?

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...
> 
>> On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Robert Andrews


If I don't have to sign a NDA,  I'll share what I find out...

On 06/03/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?



--
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Bill Prince

When I worked in Massachusetts a few decades ago, I always knew 
Wednesday was Prince Spaghetti Day.


Full disclosure:  I do not own any stock in that company.


bp


On 6/3/2019 11:47 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/3/19 11:33, Bill Prince wrote:
It will be (at least) a year before it is even semi-operational. My 
planning these days doesn't go past "What's for dinner?".



I have no idea what's for dinner except on pizza night.



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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 6/3/19 11:33, Bill Prince wrote:
It will be (at least) a year before it is even semi-operational. My 
planning these days doesn't go past "What's for dinner?".



I have no idea what's for dinner except on pizza night.

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Bill Prince

It will be (at least) a year before it is even semi-operational. My 
planning these days doesn't go past "What's for dinner?".



bp


On 6/3/2019 11:23 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

Anyone planning to get one and give it a try?



--
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread chuck

I wonder how snow on the cpe antenna will affect things.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2019 12:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what the system 
capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600 satellites per ring, and (I 
think) 24 rings.

bp

On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than that.  Their 
FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink from satellite to user 
terminal.  They have two polarities, not unlike us.  We could generously assume 
they'll get 10 bits/hz.  That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't 
matter how many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given satellite 
is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be exactly.

  -Adam

  On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

There are whole bunches of risk factors. 

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an if; note 
that this first batch does not include the sat-sat laser link capability), I 
have not seen a real estimate of the system capacity. I would presume there 
would be separate earth stations for each orbital plane. There could even 
conceivably be multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make 
the system capacity flexible.

IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body blows to the 
competition.

There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into a limited 
demand situation, but now that it seems to be working (so far), that market 
opportunity may be shifting as well.

bp

On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those profits 
to expand into the satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate 
whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks, and even if it is 
profitable, the margins are very thin.  Reportedly the geostationary launch 
business is softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for profits.  
No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites, maybe even having them 
ride along while you get paid to launch stuff for paying customers.  But this 
sounds like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If it wasn’t 
risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

  I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations as 
opposed to one or two earth stations that legacy platforms have. Up to the 
bird, maybe across one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth 
stations. I've seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth 
at each one.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Tim Withrow via AF" 
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: "Tim Withrow" 
  Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

  What kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite have  at any given 
point? 
  What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who makes a radio that big 
to carry/transmit such  capacity or is it an 
  aggregate of small radio's?

--

  On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince  wrote:

  Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on China's 
"great firewall"?

bp On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind 
is that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” 
pricing, having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition.  And 
now some new entrant is the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be 
unreliable, or not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds are actually best 
effort, or their satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people 
can’t switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with online 
stores and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick and mortar 
store, from Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry, they don’t exist 
anymore.

  This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go 
bankrupt bec

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-03 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
That would be per satellite. So it doesn't really tell us what
  the system capacity is. Don't forget there will be ~ 600
  satellites per ring, and (I think) 24 rings.


bp



On 6/3/2019 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  People always ask about system capacity, but it's simpler than
  that.  Their FCC filings show 2ghz of spectrum for the downlink
  from satellite to user terminal.  They have two polarities, not
  unlike us.  We could generously assume they'll get 10 bits/hz. 
  That's 20gbps in a given geographic area.  It doesn't matter how
  many satellites there are, or what the capacity of a given
  satellite is.  I don't know how big that geographic area will be
  exactly.
  
  -Adam
  
  
  On 6/2/2019 6:15 PM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  

There are whole bunches of risk factors. 

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still
  an if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat
  laser link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the
  system capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth
  stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably
  be multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would
  make the system capacity flexible.
IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
  blows to the competition.
There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going
  into a limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be
  working (so far), that market opportunity may be shifting as
  well.


bp



On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
You’d think that SpaceX is highly
  profitable and is using those profits to expand into the
  satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate
  whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks,
  and even if it is profitable, the margins are very thin. 
  Reportedly the geostationary launch business is softening,
  and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for profits. 
  No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites,
  maybe even having them ride along while you get paid to
  launch stuff for paying customers.  But this sounds like a
  pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If it
  wasn’t risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?
 
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60
  Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading
  Out) | Space
  

 

  I
  would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth
  stations as opposed to one or two earth stations that
  legacy platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe across
  one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth
  stations. I've seen the numbers, but I forgot the
  numbers. It's real bandwidth at each one.
  


-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing
Solutions
  
  Midwest Internet Exchange
  
  The Brothers WISP
  


  
  
  
  
  
From:
"Tim
Withrow via AF" <af@af.afmug.com>
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: "Tim Withrow" <timwith...@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60
        Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading
Out) | Space
What
kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite
have  at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who
makes a radio that big to carry/transmit such 
capacity or is it an 
aggregate of small radio's?
 


On

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-02 Thread Nate Burke

I can only hear Ford Prefect saying that now.

On 6/2/2019 5:57 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It’s amazing how many companies that people assume are profitable are
anything but. At least for now. I guess we said this about Amazon once.

But Uber lost $1 billion on $3 billion in revenue in the most recent
quarter. They already have the app. They don’t own the cars. The
drivers are not employees. How are they losing so much money, unless
they are literally losing money on every sale and intending to make it
up on volume?

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 5:15 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

There are whole bunches of risk factors.

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an if;
note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat laser link
capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the system capacity. I
would presume there would be separate earth stations for each orbital
plane. There could even conceivably be multiple earth stations for
each orbital plane, which would make the system capacity flexible.

IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body blows to
the competition.

There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into a
limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working (so
far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.

On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those
profits to expand into the satellite Internet business. But
actually there is debate whether SpaceX is profitable without
accounting tricks, and even if it is profitable, the margins are
very thin. Reportedly the geostationary launch business is
softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for
profits. No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites,
maybe even having them ride along while you get paid to launch
stuff for paying customers. But this sounds like a pretty risky
venture, paid for with borrowed money. If it wasn’t risky, it
wouldn’t be Elon, right?

*From:* AF
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations
as opposed to one or two earth stations that legacy platforms
have. Up to the bird, maybe across one or two birds, and back down
to the fiber-fed earth stations. I've seen the numbers, but I
forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth at each one.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Tim Withrow via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Cc: *"Tim Withrow" mailto:timwith...@aol.com>>
*Sent: *Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are
All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

What kind of bandwidth capacity could each satellite have at any
given point?
What is the usable bandwidth of their system? Who makes a radio
that big to carry/transmit such capacity or is it an
aggregate of small radio's?

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in
rural America, but I am also wondering if this would have some
effect on China's "great firewall"?

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep
in mind is that instead of robust competition, what could occur is
“disruptive” pricing, having the effect of discouraging or
bankrupting the competition. And now some new entrant is the only
game in town. And

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-02 Thread Ken Hohhof

It’s amazing how many companies that people assume are profitable are anything 
but.  At least for now.  I guess we said this about Amazon once.

 

But Uber lost $1 billion on $3 billion in revenue in the most recent quarter.  
They already have the app.  They don’t own the cars.  The drivers are not 
employees.  How are they losing so much money, unless they are literally losing 
money on every sale and intending to make it up on volume?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 5:15 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

 

There are whole bunches of risk factors. 

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an if; note that 
this first batch does not include the sat-sat laser link capability), I have 
not seen a real estimate of the system capacity. I would presume there would be 
separate earth stations for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be 
multiple earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make the system 
capacity flexible.

IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body blows to the 
competition.

There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into a limited 
demand situation, but now that it seems to be working (so far), that market 
opportunity may be shifting as well.

 

bp

 

On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those profits to 
expand into the satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate 
whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks, and even if it is 
profitable, the margins are very thin.  Reportedly the geostationary launch 
business is softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for profits.  
No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites, maybe even having them 
ride along while you get paid to launch stuff for paying customers.  But this 
sounds like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If it wasn’t 
risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?

 

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

 

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations as opposed to 
one or two earth stations that legacy platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe 
across one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth stations. I've 
seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth at each one.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Tim Withrow via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: "Tim Withrow" mailto:timwith...@aol.com> >
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

What kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite have  at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who makes a radio that big to 
carry/transmit such  capacity or is it an 
aggregate of small radio's?

 


  _  


On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> wrote:

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on China's 
"great firewall"?

 

bp

 

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind is 
that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” pricing, 
having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition.  And now some 
new entrant is the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be unreliable, or 
not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or 
their satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t 
switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with online stores 
and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick and mortar store, from 
Uber and Lyft back to taxis and li

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-02 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
There are whole bunches of risk factors. 

Assuming the satellite-mesh system works (and that is still an
  if; note that this first batch does not include the sat-sat laser
  link capability), I have not seen a real estimate of the system
  capacity. I would presume there would be separate earth stations
  for each orbital plane. There could even conceivably be multiple
  earth stations for each orbital plane, which would make the system
  capacity flexible.
IDK if they're making money or not, but they are serving body
  blows to the competition.
There was open speculation that the Falcon heavy was going into a
  limited demand situation, but now that it seems to be working (so
  far), that market opportunity may be shifting as well.


bp



On 6/2/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
You’d think that SpaceX is highly
  profitable and is using those profits to expand into the
  satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate
  whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks, and
  even if it is profitable, the margins are very thin. 
  Reportedly the geostationary launch business is softening, and
  SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for profits.  No doubt
  it helps if you can launch your own satellites, maybe even
  having them ride along while you get paid to launch stuff for
  paying customers.  But this sounds like a pretty risky
  venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If it wasn’t risky, it
  wouldn’t be Elon, right?
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Mike
  Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink
  Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
  

 

  I
  would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth
  stations as opposed to one or two earth stations that
  legacy platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe across one or
  two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth stations.
  I've seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real
  bandwidth at each one.
  


-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  
  Midwest Internet Exchange
  
  The Brothers WISP
  


  
  
  
  
  
From:
"Tim
Withrow via AF" <af@af.afmug.com>
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: "Tim Withrow" <timwith...@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink
        Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
What
kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite have 
at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who makes
a radio that big to carry/transmit such  capacity or is
it an 
aggregate of small radio's?
 


On
Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:

  
Naturally,
we're all thinking about what effect this will have
in rural America, but I am also wondering if this
would have some effect on China's "great firewall"?
 
bp

 

  
On
6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  

  
  

  
I
think one factor advocacy groups and govt
critters need to keep in mind is that instead of
robust competition, what could occur is
“disruptive” pricing, having the effect of
discouraging or bankrupting the competition. 
And now some new entrant is the only game in
town.  And if it turns out to be unreliable, or
not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds
are actually best effort, or their satellites

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-02 Thread Ken Hohhof

You’d think that SpaceX is highly profitable and is using those profits to 
expand into the satellite Internet business.  But actually there is debate 
whether SpaceX is profitable without accounting tricks, and even if it is 
profitable, the margins are very thin.  Reportedly the geostationary launch 
business is softening, and SpaceX is actually looking to Starlink for profits.  
No doubt it helps if you can launch your own satellites, maybe even having them 
ride along while you get paid to launch stuff for paying customers.  But this 
sounds like a pretty risky venture, paid for with borrowed money.  If it wasn’t 
risky, it wouldn’t be Elon, right?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations as opposed to 
one or two earth stations that legacy platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe 
across one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth stations. I've 
seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth at each one.

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Tim Withrow via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: "Tim Withrow" mailto:timwith...@aol.com> >
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

What kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite have  at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who makes a radio that big to 
carry/transmit such  capacity or is it an 
aggregate of small radio's?

  _  

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> wrote:

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on China's 
"great firewall"?

bp

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind is 
that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” pricing, 
having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition.  And now some 
new entrant is the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be unreliable, or 
not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or 
their satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t 
switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with online stores 
and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick and mortar store, from 
Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry, they don’t exist anymore.

This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go bankrupt 
because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will be lots of choices out in 
the middle of nowhere driving the price down without any of them turning off 
the lights, seems a little naïve.

And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook, etc. would 
never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve.

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000 
miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.

bp

On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles... 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles up.

bp

On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
> clouds?
>
> On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-02 Thread Mike Hammett

I would suspect they are going to have hundreds of earth stations as opposed to 
one or two earth stations that legacy platforms have. Up to the bird, maybe 
across one or two birds, and back down to the fiber-fed earth stations. I've 
seen the numbers, but I forgot the numbers. It's real bandwidth at each one. 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Tim Withrow via AF"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: "Tim Withrow"  
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 4:43:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 

What kind of bandwidth capacity could each satellite have at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system? Who makes a radio that big to 
carry/transmit such capacity or is it an 
aggregate of small radio's? 

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on China's 
"great firewall"? 

bp

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind is 
that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” pricing, 
having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition. And now some 
new entrant is the only game in town. And if it turns out to be unreliable, or 
not to have enough capacity, or their speeds are actually best effort, or their 
satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t switch back 
to their old provider. Like being dissatisfied with online stores and assuming 
you can always switch back to the old brick and mortar store, from Uber and 
Lyft back to taxis and limos. Sorry, they don’t exist anymore. 

This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go bankrupt 
because of Starlink. But to just assume there will be lots of choices out in 
the middle of nowhere driving the price down without any of them turning off 
the lights, seems a little naïve. 

And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe, Facebook, etc. would 
never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve. 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space 

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000 
miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred. 
bp  

On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles... 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 

Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles up. 

bp 

On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
> Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
> clouds? 
> 
> On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands. 
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation) 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote: 
>>> Wonder what frequencies they will use? 
>>> 
>>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

-- 
AF mailing list 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Mathew Howard

Yeah, I know. And considering that it generally takes a pretty big storm to
take out a geostationary satellite signal, I imagine it won't be too big of
a problem... but I wouldn't be surprised if it did turn out to be a big
problem either.

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000
> miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles...
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles
>> up.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like...
>> > clouds?
>> >
>> > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>> >>
>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Tim Withrow via AF

What kind of bandwidth  capacity could each satellite have  at any given point? 
What is the usable bandwidth of their system?  Who makes a radio that big to 
carry/transmit such  capacity or is it an 
aggregate of small radio's?
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 Bill Prince  wrote:

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on China's 
"great firewall"?

 bp

 On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

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I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind is 
that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” pricing, 
having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition.  And now some 
new entrant is the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be unreliable, or 
not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or 
their satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t 
switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with online stores 
and assuming you can always switch back to the  old brick and mortar store, 
from Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry, they don’t exist anymore.

This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go bankrupt 
because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will be lots of choices out in 
the middle of nowhere driving the price down without any of them turning off 
the lights, seems a little naïve.

And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook, etc. would 
never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
 Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000 
miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.

 bp      
On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles... 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles up.

 bp

 On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
 > clouds?
 >
 > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
 >>
 >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
 >>
 >> bp
 >> 
 >>
 >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
 >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
 >>>
 >>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 
 >>>
 >>>
 >>

 -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Robert Andrews

Consider, Starlink is going to be pretty busy for a good while replacing 
a lot of other legacy services, serving big customers like the US 
military, every mobile data service, and otherwise figuring out their 
business model for another 5 years.   I think we might have a great shot 
at using these for replacing our backhauls for another 5 years after 
that before they start looking at actual consumer sales.   Oh yeah and 
Tesla cars, gotta figure they are going to be including service through 
starlink with the antenna built in after a couple of year.  IF the 
performance is good and the reliability doesn't suck I imagine every 
vehicle would look at this as a great alternative to cell service.+

I cannot imagine they are going to be selling for less than $150/month 
for a good while...

On 06/01/2019 02:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in rural 
America, but I am also wondering if this would have some effect on 
China's "great firewall"?

bp

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in 
mind is that instead of robust competition, what could occur is 
“disruptive” pricing, having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting 
the competition.  And now some new entrant is the only game in town.  
And if it turns out to be unreliable, or not to  have enough 
capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or their 
satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t 
switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with 
online stores and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick 
and mortar store, from Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry, 
they don’t exist anymore.

This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go 
bankrupt because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will be lots 
of choices out in the middle of nowhere driving the price down without 
any of them turning off the lights, seems a little naïve.

And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook, 
etc. would never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 
23,000 miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.

bp

On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles...

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few
hundred miles up.

bp

On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with
like...
> clouds?
>
> On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>>
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>>>
>>>
https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html

>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Bill Prince

Naturally, we're all thinking about what effect this will have in
  rural America, but I am also wondering if this would have some
  effect on China's "great firewall"?

bp

On 6/1/2019 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think one
factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in
mind is that instead of robust competition, what could occur
is “disruptive” pricing, having the effect of discouraging
or bankrupting the competition.  And now some new entrant is
the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be
unreliable, or not to  have enough capacity,  or their
speeds are actually best effort, or their satellites start
dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t switch
back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with
online stores and assuming you can always switch back to the
old brick and mortar store, from Uber and Lyft back to taxis
and limos.  Sorry, they don’t exist anymore.

This is
unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go
bankrupt because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will
be lots of choices out in the middle of nowhere driving the
price down without any of them turning off the lights, seems
a little naïve.

And to
assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook,
etc. would never price below cost to be “disruptive” also
seems naïve.

From: AF
 On Behalf Of Bill
Prince
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink
    Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go
  another 23,000 miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.

bp

  On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard
wrote:

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a
  couple hundred miles... 

  On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill
Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:

  Maybe at geostationary distances, but
these are only a few hundred miles up.

bp

On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Don't those bands have significant attenuation
issues with like... 
> clouds?
>
> On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka,
and V bands.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>>>
>>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html

>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Tim Hardy

Basically inverse square law - see 
http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/spacelink/spcomcalc.htm

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 1, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> Same amount of clouds tho.
> 
> What’s the free space path loss of outer space??
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:20 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000 
>> miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>> Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles... 
>>> 
 On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
 Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles 
 up.
 
 bp
 
 
 On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
 > clouds?
 >
 > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
 >>
 >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
 >>
 >> bp
 >> 
 >>
 >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
 >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
 >>>
 >>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
 >>>  
 >>>
 >>>
 >>
 
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Sean Heskett

Same amount of clouds tho.

What’s the free space path loss of outer space??



On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:20 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000
> miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles...
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles
>> up.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like...
>> > clouds?
>> >
>> > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>> >>
>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Ken Hohhof

I think one factor advocacy groups and govt critters need to keep in mind is 
that instead of robust competition, what could occur is “disruptive” pricing, 
having the effect of discouraging or bankrupting the competition.  And now some 
new entrant is the only game in town.  And if it turns out to be unreliable, or 
not to  have enough capacity,  or their speeds are actually best effort, or 
their satellites start dropping out of the sky, or whatever, people can’t 
switch back to their old provider.  Like being dissatisfied with online stores 
and assuming you can always switch back to the old brick and mortar store, from 
Uber and Lyft back to taxis and limos.  Sorry, they don’t exist anymore.

This is unlikely to happen in big cities, I doubt Comcast will go bankrupt 
because of Starlink.  But to just assume there will be lots of choices out in 
the middle of nowhere driving the price down without any of them turning off 
the lights, seems a little naïve.

And to assume big megacorps like SpaceX, Amazon, Googe,  Facebook, etc. would 
never price below cost to be “disruptive” also seems naïve.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go another 23,000 
miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.

bp

On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles... 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles up.

bp

On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
> clouds?
>
> On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>>>
>>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Sure. But after the clouds, geostationary still needs to go
  another 23,000 miles. LEO only has to go a few hundred.


bp



On 6/1/2019 10:47 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple
hundred miles... 
  
  
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM
  Bill Prince  wrote:

Maybe at
  geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred
  miles up.
  
  bp
  
  
  On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues
  with like... 
  > clouds?
  >
  > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
  >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V
  bands.
  >>
  >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
  >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
  >>>
  >>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
  
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Ken Hohhof

Mmm ... pizza.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 10:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

That is almost exactly word for word how they described the CPE. "A pizza-box 
size phased array".


bp


On 6/1/2019 8:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> I am curious how their CPE will track the satellite.  If it does not 
> track it I doubt it will have enough gain to have decent throughput.  
> I presume some kind of pizza box with phased array of patches doing 
> beam steering.
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:16 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
> Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space
>
> Because police radar is now all laser?
>
> On 06/01/2019 07:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
>>>
>>> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Mathew Howard

Clouds are generally a lot lower than a couple hundred miles...

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 10:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles
> up.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like...
> > clouds?
> >
> > On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >> According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
> >>> Wonder what frequencies they will use?
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Bill Prince


Maybe at geostationary distances, but these are only a few hundred miles up.

bp


On 6/1/2019 8:56 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... 
clouds?


On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp


On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 







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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Matt Hoppes


Don't those bands have significant attenuation issues with like... clouds?

On 6/1/19 10:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp


On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html





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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Chuck McCown

Not too many options.  It has to be either that or some moving parts.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

That is almost exactly word for word how they described the CPE. "A
pizza-box size phased array".

bp

On 6/1/2019 8:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am curious how their CPE will track the satellite.  If it does not track 
it I doubt it will have enough gain to have decent throughput.  I presume 
some kind of pizza box with phased array of patches doing beam steering.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:16 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Because police radar is now all laser?

On 06/01/2019 07:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp

On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Bill Prince

That is almost exactly word for word how they described the CPE. "A 
pizza-box size phased array".



bp


On 6/1/2019 8:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am curious how their CPE will track the satellite.  If it does not 
track it I doubt it will have enough gain to have decent throughput.  
I presume some kind of pizza box with phased array of patches doing 
beam steering.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:16 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All 
Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space


Because police radar is now all laser?

On 06/01/2019 07:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp


On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html 










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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Chuck McCown

I am curious how their CPE will track the satellite.  If it does not track 
it I doubt it will have enough gain to have decent throughput.  I presume 
some kind of pizza box with phased array of patches doing beam steering.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2019 9:16 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning 
Home (and Fading Out) | Space

Because police radar is now all laser?

On 06/01/2019 07:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp

On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html

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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Robert Andrews


Because police radar is now all laser?

On 06/01/2019 07:55 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp


On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html






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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
According to Wikipedia, they will be on Ku, Ka, and V bands.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)

bp



On 6/1/2019 7:46 AM, Jaime Solorza
  wrote:


  
  
Wonder what frequencies they will use?


https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
  
  

  


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[AFMUG] SpaceX Says Its 60 Starlink Satellites Are All Phoning Home (and Fading Out) | Space

2019-06-01 Thread Jaime Solorza

Wonder what frequencies they will use?

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-phone-home-dimming.html
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