[AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
I don't trust UPSs for critical backup. I don't trust normal gel cells. On the cheap, solar charge controllers make great rectifiers. They treat the batts well and maximize your charge after a power outage. They are not as costly as a carrier grade rectifier. You can literally power them off of a cheap battery charger. I am of the camp that you don't need LVDs. You want to keep the system running until it just quits due to low voltage. The LVD crowd says you have to save the battery. Well you really should have a back up generator if the power is so erratic that a LVD might be called into action more than once a year. And if it is that seldom, let it run down. A few deep discharges is not going to kill the batt and you may just stay online long enough for the power to come back on. If you do want to use carrier grade rectifiers, I would go with eltek/valere They are modular and can be found on Ebay for reasonable amounts of money. If you do a rack with a BC-2000 you can even do battery discharge tests remotely to check for bad cells etc.And you can have redundancy in the charging. Right now on Ebay, there is a whole shelf for $400 That is a killer deal. 3 rectifier modules. -Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:57 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. Any joker can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC option. UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll come out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with similar runtime and capacity. I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of failures out of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at all. It's obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be chasing dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it can all be -48v and then you don't need the converters. I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget where what you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with that. DC plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for the routers and switches designed for it. These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 years of playing this game. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
I like the Alpha UPS units for AC.. reliable, configurable for a variety of cell types, and relatively affordable. https://www.alpha.ca/solutions/products/standard-systems/outdoor-ups-solutio ns/item/alpha-fxm-hp Peter Kranz www.UnwiredLtd.com Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 Mobile: 510-207- pkr...@unwiredltd.com -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. Any joker can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC option. UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll come out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with similar runtime and capacity. I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of failures out of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at all. It's obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be chasing dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it can all be -48v and then you don't need the converters. I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget where what you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with that. DC plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for the routers and switches designed for it. These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 years of playing this game. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
Anderson Power pole gear. On 6/28/21 2:33 PM, Nate Burke wrote: How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. Any joker can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC option. UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll come out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with similar runtime and capacity. I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of failures out of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at all. It's obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be chasing dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it can all be -48v and then you don't need the converters. I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget where what you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with that. DC plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for the routers and switches designed for it. These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 years of playing this game. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations. I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PT3PXSB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:58 PM Robert wrote: > Anderson Power pole gear. > > On 6/28/21 2:33 PM, Nate Burke wrote: > > How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit > > breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I > > see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging > > out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so > > apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. > > > > On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: > >> You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. > >> Any joker > >> can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC > >> option. > >> > >> UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll > >> come > >> out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with > >> similar > >> runtime and capacity. > >> > >> I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of > >> failures out > >> of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at > >> all. It's > >> obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom > >> reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be > >> chasing > >> dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. > >> > >> The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for > >> telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use > >> converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it > >> can all > >> be -48v and then you don't need the converters. > >> > >> I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget > >> where what > >> you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with > >> that. DC > >> plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for > >> the > >> routers and switches designed for it. > >> > >> These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 > >> years > >> of playing this game. > >> > >> -Adam > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke > >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM > >> To: Animal Farm > >> Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) > >> > >> We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several > >> years. > >> Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for > >> us. I > >> can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over > >> the last > >> several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but > >> they're > >> becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a > >> simple > >> UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big > >> batteries? > >> > >> We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in > >> Hours, > >> not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the > >> DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during > >> outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external > >> batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the > >> back for > >> them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times > >> are > >> very quick. > >> > >> When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all > >> kids of > >> ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, > >> When I > >> price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, > >> fuse > >> protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a > >> couple > >> hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. > >> > >> Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the > >> sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but > >> those are a > >> several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to > >> worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 > >> batteries, and > >> the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail > >> with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully > >> monitored > >> power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment > >> modifications. > >> > >> -- > >> AF mailing list > >> AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
(tower top) On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 3:18 PM TJ Trout wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PT3PXSB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:58 PM Robert wrote: > >> Anderson Power pole gear. >> >> On 6/28/21 2:33 PM, Nate Burke wrote: >> > How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit >> > breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I >> > see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging >> > out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so >> > apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. >> > >> > On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. >> >> Any joker >> >> can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC >> >> option. >> >> >> >> UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll >> >> come >> >> out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with >> >> similar >> >> runtime and capacity. >> >> >> >> I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of >> >> failures out >> >> of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at >> >> all. It's >> >> obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom >> >> reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be >> >> chasing >> >> dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. >> >> >> >> The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for >> >> telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use >> >> converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it >> >> can all >> >> be -48v and then you don't need the converters. >> >> >> >> I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget >> >> where what >> >> you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with >> >> that. DC >> >> plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for >> >> the >> >> routers and switches designed for it. >> >> >> >> These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 >> >> years >> >> of playing this game. >> >> >> >> -Adam >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> >> From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke >> >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM >> >> To: Animal Farm >> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) >> >> >> >> We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several >> >> years. >> >> Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for >> >> us. I >> >> can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over >> >> the last >> >> several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but >> >> they're >> >> becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a >> >> simple >> >> UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big >> >> batteries? >> >> >> >> We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in >> >> Hours, >> >> not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the >> >> DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during >> >> outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external >> >> batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the >> >> back for >> >> them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times >> >> are >> >> very quick. >> >> >> >> When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all >> >> kids of >> >> ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, >> >> When I >> >> price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, >> >> fuse >> >> protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a >> >> couple >> >> hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. >> >> >> >> Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the >> >> sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but >> >> those are a >> >> several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have >> to >> >> worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 >> >> batteries, and >> >> the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN >> rail >> >> with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully >> >> monitored >> >> power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment >> >> modifications. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> AF mailing list >> >> AF@af.afmug.com >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
https://www.amazon.com/WINDCAMP-Connector-Distributor-Compatible-Powerpole/dp/B01KBTF7C0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3P2FM03UBYIWV&dchild=1&keywords=anderson+powerpole+distribution+block&qid=1624928516&sprefix=anderson+powerpole+%2Caps%2C243&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUEEzVkRTMk5RQjgyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjg2MjYwQ0NNSDRPUkxTUDYyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MTg5OTYxRE00OEg0N05DUTY4JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== On 6/28/21 3:19 PM, TJ Trout wrote: (tower top) On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 3:18 PM TJ Trout <mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PT3PXSB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PT3PXSB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:58 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: Anderson Power pole gear. On 6/28/21 2:33 PM, Nate Burke wrote: > How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit > breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I > see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging > out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so > apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. > > On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. >> Any joker >> can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a 110VAC >> option. >> >> UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll >> come >> out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with >> similar >> runtime and capacity. >> >> I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of >> failures out >> of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at >> all. It's >> obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom >> reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be >> chasing >> dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. >> >> The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard for >> telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use >> converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it >> can all >> be -48v and then you don't need the converters. >> >> I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget >> where what >> you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with >> that. DC >> plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for >> the >> routers and switches designed for it. >> >> These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 >> years >> of playing this game. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Nate Burke >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM >> To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) >> >> We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several >> years. >> Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for >> us. I >> can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over >> the last >> several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but >> they're >> becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a >> simple >> UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big >> batteries? >> >> We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in >> Hours, >
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
fyi i dont think Helios makes anything, those are just rebranded ict fuse panels at a (I presume) a premium On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 6:03 PM Robert wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/WINDCAMP-Connector-Distributor-Compatible-Powerpole/dp/B01KBTF7C0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3P2FM03UBYIWV&dchild=1&keywords=anderson+powerpole+distribution+block&qid=1624928516&sprefix=anderson+powerpole+%2Caps%2C243&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUEEzVkRTMk5RQjgyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjg2MjYwQ0NNSDRPUkxTUDYyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MTg5OTYxRE00OEg0N05DUTY4JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== > > On 6/28/21 3:19 PM, TJ Trout wrote: > > (tower top) > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 3:18 PM TJ Trout wrote: > >> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PT3PXSB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 >> >> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:58 PM Robert wrote: >> >>> Anderson Power pole gear. >>> >>> On 6/28/21 2:33 PM, Nate Burke wrote: >>> > How do you distribute the 48/24v power? A row of fused links? circuit >>> > breakers? That's always been the part that looks cobbled together. I >>> > see Windstream rectifier racks with wire nuts, and wire just hanging >>> > out in the open, and an autozone inverter sitting on a shelf, so >>> > apparently even the Telco's don't always have good solutions. >>> > >>> > On 6/28/2021 12:35 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >> You already pointed out the major plus to A/C power: It's simple. >>> >> Any joker >>> >> can come along and plug something in. Almost every device has a >>> 110VAC >>> >> option. >>> >> >>> >> UPS's are looking cheaper because you're getting used/refurb. You'll >>> >> come >>> >> out more comparable with a new DC system compared to a new UPS with >>> >> similar >>> >> runtime and capacity. >>> >> >>> >> I've never had a UPS as reliable as a rectifier. A handful of >>> >> failures out >>> >> of dozens over several years does not actually sound reliable at >>> >> all. It's >>> >> obviously tolerable to you in your scenario, but it's not telecom >>> >> reliability. Scale that up to 100's of deployments and you'll be >>> >> chasing >>> >> dead UPS's more often than you'll want to. >>> >> >>> >> The good rectifier systems will be -48v because that's the standard >>> for >>> >> telecom power. If you're in Ubiquiti/Mikrotik land you'll have to use >>> >> converters to +24V. If you're in Cisco/Juniper/Arista land then it >>> >> can all >>> >> be -48v and then you don't need the converters. >>> >> >>> >> I absolutely have been where you are now. If you're on a budget >>> >> where what >>> >> you can afford is the used APC XL then maybe you just stick with >>> >> that. DC >>> >> plant is better, but you will pay more for it and you'll pay more for >>> >> the >>> >> routers and switches designed for it. >>> >> >>> >> These are all statements of opinion, but it's opinion informed by 22 >>> >> years >>> >> of playing this game. >>> >> >>> >> -Adam >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -Original Message- >>> >> From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke >>> >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 12:58 PM >>> >> To: Animal Farm >>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) >>> >> >>> >> We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several >>> >> years. >>> >> Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for >>> >> us. I >>> >> can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over >>> >> the last >>> >> several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but >>> >> they're >>> >> becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a >>> >> simple >>> >> UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big >>> >> batteries? >>> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf -Original Message- From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :) I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a hefty price tag. Cheers, Mark -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42 To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf -Original Message- From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
If you’re looking for DC gear for the tower, I have a bunch of sentinel ups shelves with rectifiers we’re going to offload from an acquisition. Hit me up off-list and we can discuss. > On Jul 1, 2021, at 16:50, Mark Frost wrote: > > Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :) > > I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a > hefty price tag. > > Cheers, > Mark > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband > Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42 > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) > > https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for > -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf > > > -Original Message- > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM > To: Animal Farm > Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) > > We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. > Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I > can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last > several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're > becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple > UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big > batteries? > > We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, > not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the > DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during > outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external > batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for > them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are > very quick. > > When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of > ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I > price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse > protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple > hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. > > Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites > using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a > several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to > worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and > the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with > a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, > and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
Their Modular system is a couple thousand USD ..depending what modules you get. IDK what the setup from the PDF costs, but it looks pretty clean. If you can afford a setup like that you won't regret having it. On 7/1/2021 6:48 PM, Mark Frost wrote: Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :) I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a hefty price tag. Cheers, Mark -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42 To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf -Original Message- From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big batteries? We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times are very quick. When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment modifications. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again)
It's expensive compared to your $20 Meanwell. It's cheap compared to problems, downtime, etc. Josh Luthman 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 6:49 PM Mark Frost wrote: > Does anyone know what they consider 'affordable'? :) > > I recall looking at their gear a while back. Seemed nice, but came with a > hefty price tag. > > Cheers, > Mark > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband > Sent: Friday, 2 July 2021 06:42 > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) > > > https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for > -Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf > <https://www.ict-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Affordable-DC-Power-for-Wireless-Broadband-Networks_JAN-2020.pdf> > > > -Original Message- > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:58 AM > To: Animal Farm > Subject: [AFMUG] Tower UPS's (again) > > We've been using the APC SmartUPS 750XL as a Tower UPS for several years. > Put 2-8 100+AH AGM Batteries on them, and they've been rock solid for us. > I can think of only a handful of failures in the dozens deployed over the > last several years. I used to source them off ebay for $50-$70 each, but > they're becoming more and more scarce. Anybody have a recommendation for a > simple UPS that will do all the monitoring that the APC does and accept big > batteries? > > We're a Metro-Rural Area, our power outages are usually measured in Hours, > not days. So I'm not as concerned with the inefficiency of doing the > DC/AC/DC Conversion for Runtime, just power stability during > outages/fluctuations.I like the ease of connecting the external > batteries to the APC, since the XL line has an Anderson plug on the back > for them, and has a larger charger than the normal UPS, so recharge times > are very quick. > > When the boss goes to the WISPA Shows, his head is filled with all kids of > ideas, so he want's me to investigate doing everything as a DC Plant, When > I price that out, with chargers, voltage converters (24/48), inverters, > fuse protection, LVD, Monitoring, etc, it always seems like the price is a > couple hundred dollars of parts and it would be cobbled together. > > Am I missing something with doing a DC Plant? I see the telco's at the > sites using a rackmount rectifier with power supply modules, but those are > a several hundred by themselves, and they are only 48V, they don't have to > worry about 24v radios. When I build a site now, I drop in 2 batteries, > and the APC, and the site is up and running in a couple minutes. A DIN > rail with a couple power supplies and the box is done, and has fully > monitored power, and I can plug in whatever I want without any equipment > modifications. > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
