Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Josh Luthman]

I've been using VMware ESX and now ESXi for a few years.  It works just
fine.  I honestly have no complaints over it.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:52 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Cli,web
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 11:34 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I have never tried proxmox...
>>  What kind of hypervisor interface does it have?
>>
>>
>> On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably
>> 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>> years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>>
>> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
>> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
>> for me (at least I don't think so).
>>
>> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>>
>> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
>> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
>> important for sure.
>>
>> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[TJ Trout]

Cli,web

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 11:34 AM dave  wrote:

> I have never tried proxmox...
>  What kind of hypervisor interface does it have?
>
>
> On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably
> 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> 
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
> behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>
> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
> for me (at least I don't think so).
>
> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>
> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
> important for sure.
>
> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Adam Moffett]

Google "Dell Open manage Linux".  If you're using Proxmox VE then use 
the Debian packages.


-Adam


On 9/28/2020 2:57 PM, dave wrote:
I have not messed with the agent for the dells but Ill give it a look. 
Is it a bios Installed application?



On 9/28/20 1:40 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
You can easily alert on failed disks in the PERC controllers.  You 
just need to install Dell's OpenManage agent which makes these 
notifications possible via integrated interfaces or SNMP, etc.


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 2:38 PM dave <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


The only thing I hate On a host is the Percs I wish Dell would
alert or something to notify of a failing drive.


On 9/28/20 10:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a
high level.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and
combines them into one logical storage for use by the entire
cluster?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a
dedicated, shared storage box.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------
*From: *"Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast
shared storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a
physical machine for OS upgrade and the VM's are on shared
storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few
seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back.
No downtime.

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches.
I'll look into it. If anyone really knows the space and
wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing what we
need I would appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s)
you need to do. As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g.
DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's
a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run
3 or 4 virtual machines on each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many
of the paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can
become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g.
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be
thought of as VM-lite. Containers provide almost all
of the advantages of VMs with a significantly
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[dave]

I have not messed with the agent for the dells but Ill give it a look. 
Is it a bios Installed application?



On 9/28/20 1:40 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
You can easily alert on failed disks in the PERC controllers.  You 
just need to install Dell's OpenManage agent which makes these 
notifications possible via integrated interfaces or SNMP, etc.


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 2:38 PM dave <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


The only thing I hate On a host is the Percs I wish Dell would
alert or something to notify of a failing drive.


On 9/28/20 10:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a
high level.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and
combines them into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated,
shared storage box.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----
    *From: *"Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast
shared storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a
physical machine for OS upgrade and the VM's are on shared
storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few
seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back. 
No downtime.

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches.
I'll look into it. If anyone really knows the space and
wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing what we need
I would appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you
need to do. As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS)
are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3
or 4 virtual machines on each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many
of the paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can become
pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g.
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be
thought of as VM-lite. Containers provide almost all
of the advantages of VMs with a significantly lighter
load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up
more applications on less hardware. The leading
contender in the container space is Kubernetes and
it's also op

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

That would be the job of the file system, in a world where you're using a 
sophisticated file system such as ZFS or CEPH. Drive controllers should be 
nearly passive devices in those cases. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "dave"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 1:37:24 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 

The only thing I hate On a host is the Percs I wish Dell would alert or 
something to notify of a failing drive. 




On 9/28/20 10:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a high level. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and combines them 
into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster? 


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared storage 
box. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared storage is 
very helpful. When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS upgrade and the 
VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few 
seconds. Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back. No downtime. 

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it. If 
anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing 
what we need I would appreciate it. 


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 

bp
 
On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 






-- 
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-- 


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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Josh Baird]

You can easily alert on failed disks in the PERC controllers.  You just
need to install Dell's OpenManage agent which makes these notifications
possible via integrated interfaces or SNMP, etc.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 2:38 PM dave  wrote:

> The only thing I hate On a host is the Percs I wish Dell would alert or
> something to notify of a failing drive.
>
>
> On 9/28/20 10:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a high level.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> 
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and combines
> them into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster?
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared
>> storage box.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>> If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared
>> storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS
>> upgrade and the VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off
>> that box in a few seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's
>> back.  No downtime.
>> On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into
>> it. If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes
>> discussing what we need I would appreciate it.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it
>>> happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so
>>> it's a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
>>> machines on each physical machine.
>>>
>>> We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for
>>> bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other
>>> solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.
>>>
>>> The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as
>>> VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a
>>> significantly lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up
>>> more applications on less hardware. The leading contender in the container
>>> space is Kubernetes and it's also open source.
>>>
>>> Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>>> years behind.

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[dave]

Nice..
Ill have to give a spin on new host I got in a few days ago.


On 9/28/20 1:35 PM, Steven Kenney wrote:
GUI.. not bad looking either.. at least the old one I ran from years 
ago.  I think it has some vmotion style things going on too now.


logo <https://www.wavedirect.net/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed> 
<https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/> 
<https://twitter.com/wavedirect1> 
<https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect>

*STEVEN KENNEY *
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | 
Leamington ON

E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
W: www.wavedirect.net



*From: *"dave" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 2:33:14 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I have never tried proxmox...
 What kind of hypervisor interface does it have?


On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for
probably 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only
15 years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling
reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's,
backups, snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not
as big a priority for me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced
crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there
others? Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for?
What I will run is important for sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
started.



-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[dave]

The only thing I hate On a host is the Percs I wish Dell would alert or 
something to notify of a failing drive.



On 9/28/20 10:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a high level.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and 
combines them into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster?


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:


CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated,
shared storage box.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----
    *From: *"Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast
shared storage is very helpful. When you want to reboot a physical
machine for OS upgrade and the VM's are on shared storage then you
can migrate them off that box in a few seconds.   Do your
maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back.  No downtime.

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll
look into it. If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't
mind spending 15 minutes discussing what we need I would
appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need
to do. As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not
particularly compute intensive, so it's a great way to
stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
machines on each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of
the paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty
expensive, where other solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an
advantage because of open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be
thought of as VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of
the advantages of VMs with a significantly lighter load on
the hardware. As a result, you can load up more
applications on less hardware. The leading contender in
the container space is Kubernetes and it's also open source.

Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over
your requirements.


bp


On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I
know, I am only 15 years behind. Honestly, till now I
haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring
of VM's, backups, snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading
would be great but not as big a priority for me (at
least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the
experienced crowd.

It seems t

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Steven Kenney]

GUI.. not bad looking either.. at least the old one I ran from years ago. I 
think it has some vmotion style things going on too now. 

[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283 
W: www.wavedirect.net 


From: "dave"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 2:33:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 

I have never tried proxmox... 
What kind of hypervisor interface does it have? 


On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably 8 
years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent
Computing Solutions ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ] 
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest
Internet Exchange ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ] 
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The
Brothers WISP ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg | 


   ] 

From: "Lewis Bergman" [ mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com | 
 ] 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | 
 ] 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 



-- 
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[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 






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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[dave]

I have never tried proxmox...
 What kind of hypervisor interface does it have?


On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for 
probably 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 
years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, 
backups, snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as 
big a priority for me (at least I don't think so).


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? 
Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run 
is important for sure.


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I 
started.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Lewis,
One thing that may not be obvious in all the discussion about one
  implementation being better than another is the sheer flexibility
  of VMs and containers. You need a machine to do X? Poof! You can
  create one in a minute or two; often less than that. Just really,
  really flexible.


bp

On 9/27/2020 8:43 AM, Lewis Bergman
  wrote:


  
  Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my
searches. I'll look into it. If anyone really knows the space
and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing what we need I
would appreciate it. 
  
  
On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM
  Bill Prince  wrote:


  
VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you
  need to do. As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not
  particularly compute intensive, so it's a great way to
  stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
  machines on each physical machine.
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of
  the paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty
  expensive, where other solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an
  advantage because of open source.
The other consideration is containers, which can be
  thought of as VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of
  the advantages of VMs with a significantly lighter load on
  the hardware. As a result, you can load up more
  applications on less hardware. The leading contender in
  the container space is Kubernetes and it's also open
  source.
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over
  your requirements.


bp

On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


  I have decided I needed to get on the VM
train. I know, I am only 15 years behind. Honestly, till
now I haven't had a compelling reason.


I want something that will at least do
  some monitoring of VM's, backups, snapshots, etc.
  Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a
  priority for me (at least I don't think so).


Since I don't know what I don't know, I
  am asking the experienced crowd.


It seems the two real choices are VMWare
  and Zen. Are there others? Commercial support seems
  nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
  important for sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I
  more confused now than when I started.




  
  
  

  
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  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Steven Kenney]

The selling point for me in Vmware was Storage Motion. If it were not for that 
and the fact I'm already invested in them now i'd move to Proxmox. For Storage 
Motion I can migrate not only the VM but also the hard drive to a different 
datastore while live. It won't work on major servers that have deltas moving 
faster than it can keep up though. But if I need to turn down and update one 
datastore to do maint I can slowly move all VM's off. 

[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283 
W: www.wavedirect.net 


From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:34:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 



If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared storage is 
very helpful. When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS upgrade and the 
VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few 
seconds. Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back. No downtime. 
On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it. If 
anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing 
what we need I would appreciate it. 

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince < [ mailto:part15...@gmail.com | 
part15...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN



VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 

The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 

Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 


bp
 
On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 






-- 
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[ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ] 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 

BQ_END



BQ_END

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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not a CEPH exert, but that is my understanding of it at a high level. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:05:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and combines them 
into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster? 


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared storage 
box. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared storage is 
very helpful. When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS upgrade and the 
VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few 
seconds. Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back. No downtime. 

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it. If 
anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing 
what we need I would appreciate it. 


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 

bp
 
On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 






-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 






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-- 


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325-439-0533 Cell 
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

I just rolled out CEPH in a new cluster and it is great!
I’m stoked about essentially a “RAID” array of servers.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com<http://www.brazoswifi.com/>

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared storage 
box.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared storage is 
very helpful.  When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS upgrade and 
the VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few 
seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back.  No downtime.
On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it. If 
anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing 
what we need I would appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source.

Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.



bp


On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.




--
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and combines
them into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared
> storage box.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared
> storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS
> upgrade and the VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off
> that box in a few seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's
> back.  No downtime.
> On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into
> it. If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes
> discussing what we need I would appreciate it.
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it
>> happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so
>> it's a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
>> machines on each physical machine.
>>
>> We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for
>> bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other
>> solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.
>>
>> The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as
>> VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a
>> significantly lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up
>> more applications on less hardware. The leading contender in the container
>> space is Kubernetes and it's also open source.
>>
>> Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>> years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>>
>> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
>> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
>> for me (at least I don't think so).
>>
>> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>>
>> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
>> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
>> important for sure.
>>
>> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared storage 
box. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared storage is 
very helpful. When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS upgrade and the 
VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off that box in a few 
seconds. Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's back. No downtime. 

On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it. If 
anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes discussing 
what we need I would appreciate it. 


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 

bp
 
On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 






-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 






-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Adam Moffett]

If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared 
storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a physical machine for 
OS upgrade and the VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them 
off that box in a few seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate 
VM's back.  No downtime.


On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look 
into it. If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 
15 minutes discussing what we need I would appreciate it.


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do.
As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly
compute intensive, so it's a great way to stretch resources. We
find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the
paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive,
where other solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of
open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as
VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs
with a significantly lighter load on the hardware. As a result,
you can load up more applications on less hardware. The leading
contender in the container space is Kubernetes and it's also open
source.

Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your
requirements.


bp


On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only
15 years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling
reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's,
backups, snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not
as big a priority for me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced
crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there
others? Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for?
What I will run is important for sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when
I started.



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* Proxmox has done OpenVZ or LXC containers for... 10 - 15 years. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 7:24:27 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


I wasn't aware that Proxmox could do containers (I thought it was a pure VM 
environment). If so, then there is not a lot of difference between Docker, or 
Kubernetes. Kubernetes is oriented toward control of an entire cluster of 
physical machines. 

bp
 
On 9/27/2020 5:13 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Right, I get containers. I use LXC containers in Proxmox. I have only a couple 
uses of Docker and no Kubernetes. 


Using Docker or Kubernetes would mean an additional pane of glass that I don't 
have time for. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 7:10:35 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Containers like Docker (or Kubernetes) are a much more efficient use of 
resources. Many of the resources consumed by VMs get replicated when you are 
running many of them. With containers, the OS part of the VMs gets shared. If 
you need to run different kinds of VMs (like Windows), then VMs might be 
better. Actually, you could run two VMs (one for Windows, and one for Linux) 
and then just run containers for the various jobs. 




bp
 
On 9/27/2020 4:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



I've never bought into Docker at all. It just seemed like an extra layer of 
crap compared to manually setting up LXC containers in Proxmox. 

I also fully admit that I may not know what I'm talking about. 


Some are Windows, some are Linux, some have to be VMs to get software support, 
etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:30:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 



Huh, then you might want to consider just using Docker… 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Three or four? I run... 20 - 30 VMs per host. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 
VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 
bp  

On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 



I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 



Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 



It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 



I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 










-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 





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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 





-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I wasn't aware that Proxmox could do containers (I thought it was
  a pure VM environment). If so, then there is not a lot of
  difference between Docker, or Kubernetes. Kubernetes is oriented
  toward control of an entire cluster of physical machines.


bp

On 9/27/2020 5:13 PM, Mike Hammett
  wrote:


  
  
  Right, I get containers. I use LXC
containers in Proxmox. I have only a couple uses of Docker and
no Kubernetes.


Using Docker or Kubernetes would mean an additional pane of
  glass that I don't have time for.
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent
  Computing Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From:
"Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 7:10:35 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

Containers like Docker (or Kubernetes) are a much more
  efficient use of resources. Many of the resources consumed
  by VMs get replicated when you are running many of them.
  With containers, the OS part of the VMs gets shared. If
  you need to run different kinds of VMs (like Windows),
  then VMs might be better. Actually, you could run two VMs
  (one for Windows, and one for Linux) and then just run
  containers for the various jobs.





bp

On 9/27/2020 4:33 PM, Mike
  Hammett wrote:


  
  I've never bought into
Docker at all. It just seemed like an extra layer of
crap compared to manually setting up LXC containers in
Proxmox.

I also fully admit that I may not know what I'm talking
about.


Some are Windows, some are Linux, some have to be
  VMs to get software support, etc.
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
  Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From:
"Sterling Jacobson" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:30:22 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines



  Huh, then you might want to
consider just using Docker…
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of  Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25
PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
    
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

  
   
  
Three
or four? I run...  20 - 30 VMs per host.

  
  
  -
  Mike Hammett
Intelligent
  Computing Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  



 

  From:
  "Bill
  Prince" <part15...@gmail.com>
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020
      10:21:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual
  machines

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

Right, I get containers. I use LXC containers in Proxmox. I have only a couple 
uses of Docker and no Kubernetes. 


Using Docker or Kubernetes would mean an additional pane of glass that I don't 
have time for. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 7:10:35 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Containers like Docker (or Kubernetes) are a much more efficient use of 
resources. Many of the resources consumed by VMs get replicated when you are 
running many of them. With containers, the OS part of the VMs gets shared. If 
you need to run different kinds of VMs (like Windows), then VMs might be 
better. Actually, you could run two VMs (one for Windows, and one for Linux) 
and then just run containers for the various jobs. 




bp
 
On 9/27/2020 4:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



I've never bought into Docker at all. It just seemed like an extra layer of 
crap compared to manually setting up LXC containers in Proxmox. 

I also fully admit that I may not know what I'm talking about. 


Some are Windows, some are Linux, some have to be VMs to get software support, 
etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:30:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 



Huh, then you might want to consider just using Docker… 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Three or four? I run... 20 - 30 VMs per host. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 
VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 
bp  

On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 



I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 



Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 



It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 



I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 










-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 





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AF@af.afmug.com 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Containers like Docker (or Kubernetes) are a much more efficient
  use of resources. Many of the resources consumed by VMs get
  replicated when you are running many of them. With containers, the
  OS part of the VMs gets shared. If you need to run different kinds
  of VMs (like Windows), then VMs might be better. Actually, you
  could run two VMs (one for Windows, and one for Linux) and then
  just run containers for the various jobs.





bp

On 9/27/2020 4:33 PM, Mike Hammett
  wrote:


  
  
  I've never bought into Docker at all. It
just seemed like an extra layer of crap compared to manually
setting up LXC containers in Proxmox.

I also fully admit that I may not know what I'm talking about.


Some are Windows, some are Linux, some have to be VMs to
  get software support, etc.
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent
  Computing Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From:
"Sterling Jacobson" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"

Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:30:22 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines



  Huh, then you might want to consider
just using Docker…
   
  

  From: AF
 On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

  
   
  
Three
or four? I run...  20 - 30 VMs per host.

  
  
  -
  Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
  Solutions

Midwest Internet
  Exchange

The Brothers WISP

  
  




  

  From:
  "Bill
  Prince" <part15...@gmail.com>
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03
      AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
  VMs
  are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you
  need to do. As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS)
  are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a
  great way to stretch resources. We find we can run
  3 or 4 virtual machines on each physical machine.
  We
  used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many
  of the paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can
  become pretty expensive, where other solutions
  (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open
  source.
  The
  other consideration is containers, which can be
  thought of as VM-lite. Containers provide almost
  all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly
  lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can
  load up more applications on less hardware. The
  leading contender in the container space is
  Kubernetes and it's also open source.
  Pick
  your poison with someone you know who can go over
  your requirements.
   
  bp
  
  
On
9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
  
  

  I
  have decided I needed to get on the VM train.
  I know, I am only 15 years behind. Honestly,
  till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

  
 
  
  
I

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

I've never bought into Docker at all. It just seemed like an extra layer of 
crap compared to manually setting up LXC containers in Proxmox. 

I also fully admit that I may not know what I'm talking about. 


Some are Windows, some are Linux, some have to be VMs to get software support, 
etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:30:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 



Huh, then you might want to consider just using Docker… 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Three or four? I run... 20 - 30 VMs per host. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 
VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 
bp  

On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 



I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 



Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 



It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 



I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 










-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Sterling Jacobson]

Huh, then you might want to consider just using Docker…

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

Three or four? I run...  20 - 30 VMs per host.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
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<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine.

We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.

The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source.

Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.



bp


On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.





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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

Three or four? I run... 20 - 30 VMs per host. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:21:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it happens 
a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so it's a 
great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on 
each physical machine. 
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells and 
whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions (e.g. 
Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source. 
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite. 
Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly 
lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more applications on 
less hardware. The leading contender in the container space is Kubernetes and 
it's also open source. 
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements. 

bp
 
On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 







-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[George Skorup]

I played around with Hyper-V Server a bit and wasn't real thrilled with it.
That was a couple years ago now though.

I switched to XCP-ng about a year ago after Citrix crippled XenServer.
Installed it right over the top on a couple nodes and had zero issues. All
the bells and whistles back without the cost. XenOrchestra installed from
sources does more than enough for me. XenOrchestra updater/installer
project on GitHub makes it stupid simple.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:13 PM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> Nothing wrong with Hyper-v, been running it for 3 yrs, no issues.   If i
> did it over i would probably go with VMWare.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 9:56 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I know of a couple people using Hyper-V. I just don't trust Microsoft to
>> be my hypervisor. That may be ildeserved, but it is what it is.
>>
>> Proxmox is based on Debian, so quite stable and supports both VMs and
>> containers.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:48:14 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>> I never hear anyone say they are using Hyper-V, I assume that is not even
>> in the running unless you are a hardcore Microsoft shop or want to host in
>> the Azure cloud?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:40 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>>
>>
>> Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably
>> 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>> years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
>> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
>> for me (at least I don't think so).
>>
>>
>>
>> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
>> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
>> important for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Erich Kaiser]

Nothing wrong with Hyper-v, been running it for 3 yrs, no issues.   If i
did it over i would probably go with VMWare.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101





On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 9:56 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I know of a couple people using Hyper-V. I just don't trust Microsoft to
> be my hypervisor. That may be ildeserved, but it is what it is.
>
> Proxmox is based on Debian, so quite stable and supports both VMs and
> containers.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:48:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> I never hear anyone say they are using Hyper-V, I assume that is not even
> in the running unless you are a hardcore Microsoft shop or want to host in
> the Azure cloud?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:40 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
>
>
> Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably
> 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
> behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>
>
>
> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
> for me (at least I don't think so).
>
>
>
> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>
>
>
> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
> important for sure.
>
>
>
> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it.
If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes
discussing what we need I would appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it
> happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so
> it's a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
> machines on each physical machine.
>
> We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells
> and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions
> (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.
>
> The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite.
> Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly
> lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more
> applications on less hardware. The leading contender in the container space
> is Kubernetes and it's also open source.
>
> Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
> behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>
> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
> for me (at least I don't think so).
>
> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>
> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
> important for sure.
>
> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Bill Prince]

  
  
VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do.
  As it happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly
  compute intensive, so it's a great way to stretch resources. We
  find we can run 3 or 4 virtual machines on each physical machine.
We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the
  paid-for bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive,
  where other solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of
  open source.
The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as
  VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs
  with a significantly lighter load on the hardware. As a result,
  you can load up more applications on less hardware. The leading
  contender in the container space is Kubernetes and it's also open
  source.
Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your
  requirements.


bp

On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman
  wrote:


  
  I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I
know, I am only 15 years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't
had a compelling reason.


I want something that will at least do some
  monitoring of VM's, backups, snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading
  would be great but not as big a priority for me (at least I
  don't think so).


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am
  asking the experienced crowd.


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and
  Zen. Are there others? Commercial support seems nice, is it
  worth paying for? What I will run is important for sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more
  confused now than when I started.




  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

I know of a couple people using Hyper-V. I just don't trust Microsoft to be my 
hypervisor. That may be ildeserved, but it is what it is. 


Proxmox is based on Debian, so quite stable and supports both VMs and 
containers. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:48:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 



I never hear anyone say they are using Hyper-V, I assume that is not even in 
the running unless you are a hardcore Microsoft shop or want to host in the 
Azure cloud? 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:40 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably 8 
years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 



I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 



Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 



It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 



I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 





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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

I'm a big fan of proxmox.
It works well and the price is right (free).

Jim



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone



 Original message 
From: Lewis Bergman 
Date: 9/27/20 9:28 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Ken Hohhof]

I never hear anyone say they are using Hyper-V, I assume that is not even in 
the running unless you are a hardcore Microsoft shop or want to host in the 
Azure cloud?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

 

Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably 8 
years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Lewis Bergman" mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

 

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so).

 

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

 

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 

 

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.

 

 


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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Mike Hammett]

Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably 8 
years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 


I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 


I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 


Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 


It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 


I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 





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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Steven Kenney]

Proxmox is a good start for a newb. I use Vmware in a cluster but is terribly 
expensive. Xen is nice too but you'll need to learn about paravirtual vs HVM 
and its complications. 

Out of the box though for someone just getting started Proxmox is very nice. If 
I hadn't gone the VMware route I probably would have done that. I also ran Xen 
in tandem for years as well. 

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From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:27:22 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Virtual machines 

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years 
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason. 

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups, 
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority for 
me (at least I don't think so). 

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd. 

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others? Commercial 
support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is important for 
sure. 

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started. 



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[AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
for me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
important for sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
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