Re: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions
I have been reading rumors about Tesla switching their vehicles to a 48VDC system for lights and accessories, etc. If they're doing that, I can see lead acid losing out, especially with the size, weight, and life expectancy issues. bp On 9/5/2023 11:17 AM, Robert wrote: Lead acid is still the go to for combustion vehicles and low temperatures without grid to heat. That might change but for now they is still plenty of market. That said, when the vendors for LFP decide to change the BMSs to do what is needed and the lower temp chemistries are worked out, yes, lead acid will go away. If lithium Titanate becomes economical that will destroy lead acid... On 9/5/23 7:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: I have had little lithium experience to date but I think the answer to all of your questions is YES. The solar guys have been quoting deals like this: 305ah 3.2 Grade B cell ($89) x 32 = $2,848 for 31kwh, 610ah, 51.2v 16s2p configuration for a 48v system That is 9 cents per watt hour. Half the cost of lead acid, will do many more cycles. Much lighter. Much smaller. I think that you should sell your stock in the lead acid battery factories. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com *From:* Brough Turner - netBlazr *Sent:* Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 AM *To:* Chuck McCown via AF *Cc:* Brough Turner *Subject:* [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of fire). Is this correct? Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network connection. Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? Thanks, Brough -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions
I'm not sure if the life or risk of fire is significantly different or not with LiFePo4 vs Li-ion, but they're more suitable for a lead acid replacement because of the voltage and charging profile, if I understand correctly. >From what I've seen, they generally are fine with a lead-acid charging profile, but you probably want to verify that it doesn't go above ~58v (assuming this is a 48v system). A higher end BMS might be able to deal with higher voltages, but I haven't looked into that, so I couldn't say for sure. I've ordered from 18650batterystore.com a couple of times. They seem to have some of the best prices around, but there could be better options for large quantities. On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 9:53 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > I have had little lithium experience to date but I think the answer to all > of your questions is YES. > > The solar guys have been quoting deals like this: 305ah 3.2 Grade B cell > ($89) x 32 = $2,848 for 31kwh, 610ah, 51.2v 16s2p configuration for a 48v > system > > That is 9 cents per watt hour. Half the cost of lead acid, will do many > more cycles. Much lighter. Much smaller. I think that you should sell > your stock in the lead acid battery factories. > > Best Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > > *From:* Brough Turner - netBlazr > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 AM > *To:* Chuck McCown via AF > *Cc:* Brough Turner > *Subject:* [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some > questions > > I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of > fire). Is this correct? > > Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? > > Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network > connection. > > Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? > > Thanks, > Brough > > -- > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions
Do you really need a ups? What's the use case? I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of > fire). Is this correct? *Yes* > > Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? *No, > but most lifepo4 16s will be similar to vlra voltages, ideally you want to > adjust charger output to compensate* > > Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network > connection. *maybe, usually would be monitored by your inverter, etc, not > necessarily needed * > > Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? > *batteryhookup* > > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:18 AM Robert wrote: > Lead acid is still the go to for combustion vehicles and low temperatures > without grid to heat. That might change but for now they is still plenty > of market. That said, when the vendors for LFP decide to change the BMSs > to do what is needed and the lower temp chemistries are worked out, yes, > lead acid will go away. If lithium Titanate becomes economical that will > destroy lead acid... > > On 9/5/23 7:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > > I have had little lithium experience to date but I think the answer to all > of your questions is YES. > > The solar guys have been quoting deals like this: 305ah 3.2 Grade B cell > ($89) x 32 = $2,848 for 31kwh, 610ah, 51.2v 16s2p configuration for a 48v > system > > That is 9 cents per watt hour. Half the cost of lead acid, will do many > more cycles. Much lighter. Much smaller. I think that you should sell > your stock in the lead acid battery factories. > > Best Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > > *From:* Brough Turner - netBlazr > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 AM > *To:* Chuck McCown via AF > *Cc:* Brough Turner > *Subject:* [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some > questions > > I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of > fire). Is this correct? > > Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? > > Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network > connection. > > Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? > > Thanks, > Brough > > -- > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Thank you, TJ Trout Volt Broadband 209.480.3122 Cell -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions
Lead acid is still the go to for combustion vehicles and low temperatures without grid to heat. That might change but for now they is still plenty of market. That said, when the vendors for LFP decide to change the BMSs to do what is needed and the lower temp chemistries are worked out, yes, lead acid will go away. If lithium Titanate becomes economical that will destroy lead acid... On 9/5/23 7:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: I have had little lithium experience to date but I think the answer to all of your questions is YES. The solar guys have been quoting deals like this: 305ah 3.2 Grade B cell ($89) x 32 = $2,848 for 31kwh, 610ah, 51.2v 16s2p configuration for a 48v system That is 9 cents per watt hour. Half the cost of lead acid, will do many more cycles. Much lighter. Much smaller. I think that you should sell your stock in the lead acid battery factories. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com *From:* Brough Turner - netBlazr *Sent:* Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 AM *To:* Chuck McCown via AF *Cc:* Brough Turner *Subject:* [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of fire). Is this correct? Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network connection. Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? Thanks, Brough -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions
I have had little lithium experience to date but I think the answer to all of your questions is YES. The solar guys have been quoting deals like this: 305ah 3.2 Grade B cell ($89) x 32 = $2,848 for 31kwh, 610ah, 51.2v 16s2p configuration for a 48v system That is 9 cents per watt hour. Half the cost of lead acid, will do many more cycles. Much lighter. Much smaller. I think that you should sell your stock in the lead acid battery factories. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Brough Turner - netBlazr Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 AM To: Chuck McCown via AF Cc: Brough Turner Subject: [AFMUG] 120v UPS with Li-ion or LiPoFe batteries - some questions I understand LiPoFe is preferable to Li-ion (longer life, less chance of fire). Is this correct? Can the BMS compensate for a for lead-acid UPS's charging profile? Is there a battery with a BMS that can be monitored via a network connection. Any recommendations for where to buy batteries in pallet-level quantities? Thanks, Brough -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
