[AFMUG] 900Mhz takes another blow

[Rory Conaway]

http://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-halow

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"You don't need a ticket to see some of the best baseball in the world, you 
just need to drive one of the players to the game"  - Lessons from Baseball

[AFMUG] Itron Collector

[Mike Hammett]

Have any of you worked with an Itron collector for water meters before? They're 
sending mixed signals as to what they actually want from me. 

I ask what they need, they say public NAT. I say you want me to do the NAT and 
you receive a private address or you do the NAT and you receive a public 
address. They say, "Yeah, public NAT." 

Later when I decide I'll just move ahead and make sure they can be reachable 
when I'm on-site to plug it in, able to adjust, they ask for information so 
they can send down a new configuration to the unit. They ask for external IP 
address, gateway, mask, DNS servers. Okay, by asking for external IP address, I 
assume that means I'm doing the NAT for them, but then the gateway and mask of 
that address would be irrelevant. 

They seem to have no idea what they want or minimally are severely unable to 
convey their thoughts. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[Harold Bledsoe]

The issue is that the standards-based PoE (3af/3at) add some relatively
expensive components to the device cost.  If you know that 99% of the time
the device will be used with PoE with a supplied injector, passive PoE
makes a lot of sense from a cost perspective.  If you know that most of the
time it will be used with a PoE switch, better to use standards-based PoE
and skip including a power adapter to offset the cost.

There is also a cost difference between 24V and 48V passive PoE although
I'd say these days that difference is insignificant.

-Hal

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:13 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> my mind just melted
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> Time to connect a power-over-ethernet and ethernet-over-powerlines
>> adapter in a loop and create free limitless energy.  Who needs the
>> E-cat!?!
>>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
> Stop making sense... it's disturbs the space time continuum
>>> On Jan 4, 2016 5:33 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 POE is quite the crackwhore of terms nowadays, alot of people use her
 in alot of different ways and nobody wants to pay much. I wish there was
 just a design standard that just auto sensed and applied, 24v 48v pick a
 pair. Just to eliminate the additional stocking of appropriate power
 supplies and surge suppression, they would be worth a little more, and if
 it were to become common the cost would drop

 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup 
 wrote:

> I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at
> compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). 
> IP
> phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring 
> where
> they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs for
> ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones we're
> using now have a built-in GigE switch.
>
> I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity
> on all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power
> (30W) will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then all
> four pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE design.
> Would be nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know they
> talked about that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 30VDC.
> Well, at least that's what the label says.
>
> The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC
> mode on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP
> being pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when using
> a SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE pinout, 
> just
> needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.
>
> On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes
> it 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8
> are wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible 
> with
> only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B 
> is
> cheaper because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 
> watt
> POEs use all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.
>
> So confusing!
>
> I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at
> 60 watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?
>
> Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C,
> while the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a
> PIDU for non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or
> Syncinjector.
>
> Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench,
> or like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a
> SIP paging amplifier.
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs
>
> It's cheaper at Allied:
> http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/
>
> Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no
> reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector
> is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work
> perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt
> ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.
>
> The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot
> and if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher 
> whining
> away.
>
> On 1/3/2016 7:2

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Sean Heskett]

Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then
haha.


On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

> Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the
> snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we
> answered she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work.
> Finally after explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess
> everyone up here that owns their business must try and write off a
> snowmobile.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
>
>
> "Work truck"
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  > wrote:
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.

There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are in the 
waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager asks “What 
is 2+2” and he answers “4”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen the 
fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong answer, so he 
says “5”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What 
would you like it to be?”

You’re hired.


From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then 
haha. 


On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

  Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.





  Best regards,

  Brandon Yuchasz

  GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net



  From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
  To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck



  "Work truck"






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett 
 wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Brandon Yuchasz]

I think she was trying not to make trouble. 

Like the joke. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

 

I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.

 

There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are in the 
waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager asks “What 
is 2+2” and he answers “4”.

 

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

 

The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen the 
fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong answer, so he 
says “5”.

 

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

 

The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What 
would you like it to be?”

 

You’re hired.

 

 

From: Sean Heskett   

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

 

Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then 
haha. 



On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

 

"Work truck"




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett 
 wrote:

 

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Josh-
That’s cool, do you have a link to that product or name or anything?  I’ve 
searched around but just keep finding plug/receptacle power entry blocks, not 
that screw terminal type.  TIA!

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 07:16
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus


From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?

From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's 
just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+ 
only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on the 
higher-end CCRs.
Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but it 
would have to be a high power POE.

From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:
feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+ by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Josh Baird]

No - sorry. Somebody on the 'WISP Pics' Facebook group is making these.
You can search that page for more info.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> Josh-
>
> That’s cool, do you have a link to that product or name or anything?  I’ve
> searched around but just keep finding plug/receptacle power entry blocks,
> not that screw terminal type.  TIA!
>
>
>
> `S
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 3, 2016 07:16
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
>
> http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.
>
> Thanks,
>
> `S
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there,
> it's just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at
> or PoE+ only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on
> the higher-end CCRs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> 'S
>
>
>
> Sent mobile!
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but
> it would have to be a high power POE.
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> No copper ports, all SFP.  :/
>
>
>
> Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the
> ports as PoE-in copper like most of their other products.
>
> Thanks,
>
> `S
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> feed it poe
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
> Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how
> f'n hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make
> it easy to run these things straight off of DC.
>
> I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the
> redundant power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be
> using something else.
>
> Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up
> how you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug
> terminal things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
>
> On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>
> With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a CCR1016-12S-1S+
>  by opening the case,
> bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 060-124
> 
> directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?
> Trying to avoid using AC at all, thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Chuck McCown]

There are two types of companies.  Those run by the bean counters and those run 
by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the type I like to work for.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.

There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are in the 
waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager asks “What 
is 2+2” and he answers “4”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen the 
fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong answer, so he 
says “5”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What 
would you like it to be?”

You’re hired.


From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then 
haha. 


On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

  Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.





  Best regards,

  Brandon Yuchasz

  GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net



  From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
  To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck



  "Work truck"






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett 
 wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Josh Luthman]

Well since you were a telco it was obviously bean counting.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> There are two types of companies.  Those run by the bean counters and
> those run by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the type I like
> to work for.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
> I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.
>
> There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are
> in the waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager
> asks “What is 2+2” and he answers “4”.
>
> Thank you for coming in.  Next.
>
> The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen
> the fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong
> answer, so he says “5”.
>
> Thank you for coming in.  Next.
>
> The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What
> would you like it to be?”
>
> You’re hired.
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
> Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack
> then haha.
>
>
> On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
>> Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the
>> snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we
>> answered she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work.
>> Finally after explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess
>> everyone up here that owns their business must try and write off a
>> snowmobile.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On
>> Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>>
>>
>>
>> "Work truck"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@zirkel.us');> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Chuck McCown]

Nope.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

Well since you were a telco it was obviously bean counting.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  There are two types of companies.  Those run by the bean counters and those 
run by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the type I like to work 
for.  

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

  I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.

  There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are in 
the waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager asks 
“What is 2+2” and he answers “4”.

  Thank you for coming in.  Next.

  The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen the 
fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong answer, so he 
says “5”.

  Thank you for coming in.  Next.

  The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What 
would you like it to be?”

  You’re hired.


  From: Sean Heskett 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

  Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then 
haha. 


  On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.





Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net



From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck



"Work truck"






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett 
 wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Ken Hohhof]

I once worked for Rockwell in its heyday before it split into a dozen parts 
like Motorola.  It was definitely run by the bean counters.  Probably typical 
of any company that does a lot of government contract work.

I’m not complaining.  A few months ago, I took a one-time $100K distribution 
from Boeing for my Rockwell pension (look that word up in the dictionary, 
youngsters), and that doesn’t include all the 401K matching they did when I was 
a Rockwell employee from 1980-1988.  (Oh, and we had 100% paid insurance and 
tuition reimbursement.)  But Rockwell took a one-two punch with the 
cancellation of the B1 bomber and the end of the cold war.  End of the Space 
Shuttle program didn’t help either.  Evidently my piece of the company ended up 
going to Boeing.  I think Collins Radio want back to being Collins Radio.  Some 
of the products I worked on are still sold by Charles Industries.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

There are two types of companies.  Those run by the bean counters and those run 
by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the type I like to work for.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.

There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are in the 
waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager asks “What 
is 2+2” and he answers “4”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen the 
fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong answer, so he 
says “5”.

Thank you for coming in.  Next.

The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What 
would you like it to be?”

You’re hired.


From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack then 
haha. 


On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

  Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.





  Best regards,

  Brandon Yuchasz

  GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net



  From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
  To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck



  "Work truck"






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett 
 wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Josh Reynolds]

Probably similar to this:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0710170/277-5793-ND/2525216

search mouser/digikey for "panel mount terminal block", and you'll
need the plugs too.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Scott Vander Dussen
 wrote:
> Josh-
>
> That’s cool, do you have a link to that product or name or anything?  I’ve
> searched around but just keep finding plug/receptacle power entry blocks,
> not that screw terminal type.  TIA!
>
>
>
> `S
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 07:16
>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
>
> http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Scott Vander Dussen
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.
>
> Thanks,
>
> `S
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?
>
>
>
> From: Scott Vander Dussen
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's
> just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+
> only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on the
> higher-end CCRs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> 'S
>
>
>
> Sent mobile!
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but
> it would have to be a high power POE.
>
>
>
> From: Scott Vander Dussen
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>
>
>
> No copper ports, all SFP.  :/
>
>
>
> Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports
> as PoE-in copper like most of their other products.
>
> Thanks,
>
> `S
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> feed it poe
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
> Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n
> hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it
> easy to run these things straight off of DC.
>
> I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the
> redundant power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be
> using something else.
>
> Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up
> how you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug
> terminal things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
>
> On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>
> With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a CCR1016-12S-1S+ by
> opening the case, bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO
> Power TCL 060-124 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more
> efficient way?  Trying to avoid using AC at all, thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[can...@believewireless.net]

I worked in IT for UPS back in the day. Lining the walls of the building
were pictures of charts and graphs of different things
they had measured... from sending packages via truck, rail or air based on
cost and capacity, making routes with only right
turns, to the amount of time the average driver takes to get in and out of
the truck. I remember seeing the last one on the
wall and wondering how much training they ended up putting into drivers
teaching them to get in and out of a truck faster.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I once worked for Rockwell in its heyday before it split into a dozen
> parts like Motorola.  It was definitely run by the bean counters.  Probably
> typical of any company that does a lot of government contract work.
>
> I’m not complaining.  A few months ago, I took a one-time $100K
> distribution from Boeing for my Rockwell pension (look that word up in the
> dictionary, youngsters), and that doesn’t include all the 401K matching
> they did when I was a Rockwell employee from 1980-1988.  (Oh, and we had
> 100% paid insurance and tuition reimbursement.)  But Rockwell took a
> one-two punch with the cancellation of the B1 bomber and the end of the
> cold war.  End of the Space Shuttle program didn’t help either.  Evidently
> my piece of the company ended up going to Boeing.  I think Collins Radio
> want back to being Collins Radio.  Some of the products I worked on are
> still sold by Charles Industries.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:12 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
> There are two types of companies.  Those run by the bean counters and
> those run by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the type I like
> to work for.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
> I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make trouble.
>
> There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several candidates are
> in the waiting room.  The first candidate goes in, and the hiring manager
> asks “What is 2+2” and he answers “4”.
>
> Thank you for coming in.  Next.
>
> The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having seen
> the fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was the wrong
> answer, so he says “5”.
>
> Thank you for coming in.  Next.
>
> The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He answers “What
> would you like it to be?”
>
> You’re hired.
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
> Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard rack
> then haha.
>
>
> On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
>> Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the
>> snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we
>> answered she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work.
>> Finally after explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess
>> everyone up here that owns their business must try and write off a
>> snowmobile.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On
>> Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>>
>>
>>
>> "Work truck"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@zirkel.us');> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[D. Ryan Spott]

I work at a really big Internet book seller. EVERYTHING they do has a 
metric behind it. Decisions are made (almost always) with math. 
Microseconds and 100ths of a penny count.


Pretty amazing to watch.

ryan

On 1/5/16 9:47 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
I worked in IT for UPS back in the day. Lining the walls of the 
building were pictures of charts and graphs of different things
they had measured... from sending packages via truck, rail or air 
based on cost and capacity, making routes with only right
turns, to the amount of time the average driver takes to get in and 
out of the truck. I remember seeing the last one on the
wall and wondering how much training they ended up putting into 
drivers teaching them to get in and out of a truck faster.


On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


I once worked for Rockwell in its heyday before it split into a
dozen parts like Motorola.  It was definitely run by the bean
counters.  Probably typical of any company that does a lot of
government contract work.
I’m not complaining.  A few months ago, I took a one-time $100K
distribution from Boeing for my Rockwell pension (look that word
up in the dictionary, youngsters), and that doesn’t include all
the 401K matching they did when I was a Rockwell employee from
1980-1988.  (Oh, and we had 100% paid insurance and tuition
reimbursement.)  But Rockwell took a one-two punch with the
cancellation of the B1 bomber and the end of the cold war.  End of
the Space Shuttle program didn’t help either.  Evidently my piece
of the company ended up going to Boeing.  I think Collins Radio
want back to being Collins Radio.  Some of the products I worked
on are still sold by Charles Industries.
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:12 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
There are two types of companies. Those run by the bean counters
and those run by the product subject matter expert(s).  I know the
type I like to work for.
*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:23 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
I thought accountants were supposed to do your bidding, not make
trouble.
There is an old joke about hiring an accountant.  Several
candidates are in the waiting room.  The first candidate goes in,
and the hiring manager asks “What is 2+2” and he answers “4”.
Thank you for coming in.  Next.
The second candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2?”.  Having
seen the fate of the first candidate, he figures 4 probably was
the wrong answer, so he says “5”.
Thank you for coming in.  Next.
The third candidate goes in, and is asked “What is 2+2”.  He
answers “What would you like it to be?”
You’re hired.
*From:* Sean Heskett 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:37 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
Well I probably won't have the accountant write off the snowboard
rack then haha.


On Monday, January 4, 2016, Brandon Yuchasz
mailto:li...@gogebicrange.net>> wrote:

Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how
much of the snowmobile was personal use and how much was work.
No matter how we answered she didn’t seem to want to accept
that it was 100% for work. Finally after explaining the
location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af
[mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');]
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
*To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

"Work truck"


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett
 wrote:





--
D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc
broadband | telco | colo | communities
PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294
425-939-0047

[AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Craig Baird]

I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping you  
guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to be  
putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is  
apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd like to  
power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery string.  So...  
what are my implications here?  Will having both -48 and +48 radios on  
the same tower, coming from the same power supply end up shorting  
through the tower?  What's the best way to do this short of using two  
separate power supplies and battery strings?


Thanks!

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Josh Baird]

You need an isolated DC-DC converter between your +48V and -48V.  Look into
the Meanwell RSD series (not the SD).

Specifically, take a look at the RSD-200C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Craig Baird  wrote:

> I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping you
> guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to be putting on
> the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is apparently -48vdc,
> while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd like to power both with a
> Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery string.  So... what are my implications
> here?  Will having both -48 and +48 radios on the same tower, coming from
> the same power supply end up shorting through the tower?  What's the best
> way to do this short of using two separate power supplies and battery
> strings?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Craig
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Chuck McCown]

Everything depends on what polarity is connected to the case/chassis of the 
radios.
If neither power polarity is bonded to the case, the radio is floating and 
you can connect it to any source.


But if one radio has positive bonded to the case and the other has negative 
bonded to the case, if you connect them to the same power supply (assuming 
it is floating too) they will be fine until you bolt them to a tower whereby 
the tower will short everything out.


Also, note that some power supplies bond one polarity to ground as well.

So, more data is needed.

-Original Message- 
From: Craig Baird

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping you
guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to be
putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is
apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd like to
power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery string.  So...
what are my implications here?  Will having both -48 and +48 radios on
the same tower, coming from the same power supply end up shorting
through the tower?  What's the best way to do this short of using two
separate power supplies and battery strings?

Thanks!

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Bill Prince]

You need to check both radios to see if they tie the power return to 
chassis ground. If either one does, you will need separate power supplies.


If they both are like Dragonwave, and isolate the power return from the 
chassis, then you will have a fighting chance with an isolated output 
power supply.


bp


On 1/5/2016 10:47 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping you 
guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to be 
putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is 
apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd like to 
power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery string.  So... 
what are my implications here?  Will having both -48 and +48 radios on 
the same tower, coming from the same power supply end up shorting 
through the tower?  What's the best way to do this short of using two 
separate power supplies and battery strings?


Thanks!

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Chuck McCown]

I like Bill's explanation the best so far...

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:53 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio 

You need to check both radios to see if they tie the power return to 
chassis ground. If either one does, you will need separate power supplies.


If they both are like Dragonwave, and isolate the power return from the 
chassis, then you will have a fighting chance with an isolated output 
power supply.


bp


On 1/5/2016 10:47 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping you 
guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to be 
putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is 
apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd like to 
power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery string.  So... 
what are my implications here?  Will having both -48 and +48 radios on 
the same tower, coming from the same power supply end up shorting 
through the tower?  What's the best way to do this short of using two 
separate power supplies and battery strings?


Thanks!

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[George Skorup]

Yup. Just use a RSD200C-48 and not worry about it.

On 1/5/2016 12:51 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
You need an isolated DC-DC converter between your +48V and -48V.  Look 
into the Meanwell RSD series (not the SD).


Specifically, take a look at the RSD-200C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Craig Baird > wrote:


I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping
you guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to
be putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is
apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd
like to power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery
string.  So... what are my implications here?  Will having both
-48 and +48 radios on the same tower, coming from the same power
supply end up shorting through the tower?  What's the best way to
do this short of using two separate power supplies and battery
strings?

Thanks!

Craig

[AFMUG] OT Guns

[Chuck McCown]

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Simon Westlake]

Has it run out of vodka?

On 1/5/2016 1:25 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?


--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Bill Prince]

Who would care?

bp


On 1/5/2016 11:25 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[Craig Baird]

Great!  Thanks!  So let me make sure I'm clear on this.  I'll connect  
my +48v gear directly to the AD-155C.  Then, put the RSD-200C in-line  
between the AD-155C and the -48v gear.  Is this right?


Craig


Quoting George Skorup :


Yup. Just use a RSD200C-48 and not worry about it.

On 1/5/2016 12:51 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
You need an isolated DC-DC converter between your +48V and -48V.   
Look into the Meanwell RSD series (not the SD).


Specifically, take a look at the RSD-200C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Craig Baird > wrote:


   I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping
   you guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to
   be putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is
   apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc.  I'd
   like to power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery
   string.  So... what are my implications here?  Will having both
   -48 and +48 radios on the same tower, coming from the same power
   supply end up shorting through the tower?  What's the best way to
   do this short of using two separate power supplies and battery
   strings?

   Thanks!

   Craig

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If he did, they wouldnt be forced tears, Im wondering what chemical he used
to generate them.

I dont care who you are, In a world that is on the brink of large scale
warfare, you do not send your leader out to cry like a school girl with a
lost doll. I cant wait for the memes though, 2015 was a great year for
memes, and now, thanks to sally short skirt in the white house, 2016 is
shaping up to be even better.

This may be a shrewd ploy however. In the even of WW3 we may not even be
invited to the playground because the rest of the real world superpowers
feel so sad for us. It would be the greatest thing in the world if Putin
sent a box of Tampax to our president after this.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Simon Westlake  wrote:

> Has it run out of vodka?
>
> On 1/5/2016 1:25 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Would Putin cry at a press conference?
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Skype: Simon_Sonar
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Trey Scarborough]

On 1/4/2016 9:42 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing
any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on
the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would
be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting
what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s
queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?





I would tell them to have a good discussion with their Son

Beyond that it will prove to be very difficult without blocking all vpn 
traffic as well. Basically just allow port 80 through from the offenders 
computer and put it through a content filter. If they are smart they 
will even find a way around Net Nanny or some similar application 
installed on the computer/device.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Jay Weekley]

I hear Putin's tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries.

Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Josh Luthman]

That's Chuck Norris...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> I hear Putin's tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries.
>
>
> Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> Would Putin cry at a press conference?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[James Howard]

I heard that Putin is Chuck Norris.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

That's Chuck Norris...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Jay Weekley 
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
I hear Putin's tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries.


Chuck McCown wrote:
Would Putin cry at a press conference?



Total Control Panel

Login


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From: 0152138d967f-563e7d0a-ef5b-4e86-99b1-07c2d4ae19ed-000...@amazonses.com


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You received this message because the domain amazonses.com is on your allow 
list.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Ken Hohhof]

Mermaid tears.

Oh, and you guys must have had a field day when John Boehner was Speaker.  When 
Nancy Pelosi wasn’t making him cry, he was trying to kiss her.


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

That's Chuck Norris...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Jay Weekley  wrote:

  I hear Putin's tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries. 


  Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Bill Prince]

If he did, I would wonder who he stole them from.

bp


On 1/5/2016 11:25 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)

[Mathew Howard]

We finally got our 900mhz 450i put up... so far, I'm impressed.
We only have two clients on it at this point, but if the link tests are
anything to go by, it's a bit better than the PMP100 it replaced...

VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
ActualActual
1895.00 Mbps14.60 Mbps109.61 Mbps,  7916 pps68661 (6866
pps)10501(1050 pps)


VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
ActualActual
1931.93 Mbps6.50 Mbps38.43 Mbps,  2767 pps23034 (2303
pps)4645(464 pps)


I have it running on a 20mhz channel right now, just because I can (there
isn't any other 900mhz in the area), the second connection is a little on
the weak side because of some terrain issues, but it actually wasn't too
much worse running on a 10mhz channel (about 30mbps aggregate, if I
remember right). It's not the best time of year to be testing NLOS
connections, but signal levels are pretty close to what they were with the
PMP100, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect... I'm hoping that dual
slant will cut through the leaves a bit better than single H-pol did, but
even if signal levels are only as good as the PMP100 was in the summer,
this is going to be very usable.


On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> That's pretty good, I was expecting an average of more like 18-20ms. The
> occasional spike to 250 for 1 or 2 seconds at a time is not unexpected at
> 900MHz with noise and retransmits.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> SM is bridged and has an RFC1918 IP.  Test would have to be run on-net.
>>
>> I just tried a few ping tests from the (Cisco) tower router.  100 pings
>> typically comes back around 4/10/35 for min/avg/max.  I ran 1000 pings
>> though and got 4/11/48, ran another 1000 and got 4/12/248.  Zero packet
>> loss, but apparently noise can cause an occasional latency spike, probably
>> due to upstream.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:15 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)
>>
>> Any chance of running 'mtr' against the CPE IP of house #2 and leaving it
>> for a few hours?  I'm curious what the min/max/average latency looks like.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> So yesterday I did some tweaking on the sync parameters and was able to
>>> get better results.  I'll put the details in a second post, but I wanted to
>>> update the grim picture I painted the other day.
>>>
>>> As initially set up, I was only getting 1X MIMO-A, even on a 5 MHz
>>> channel and after trying a bunch of frequencies, and the SMs would not
>>> reliably stay registered.
>>>
>>> After tweaking the sync parameters and channel, I was able to get one
>>> sub to 4X MIMO-B and the other to 2X MIMO-B, and increase the channel width
>>> to 7 MHz.  They have stayed registered now for 18 hours and while the speed
>>> varies a bit they hold 4X and 2X.  Here are linktest results I just ran:
>>>
>>> subscriber #1
>>> 2 miles with a few bare trees and apparently some multipath issues
>>> 2X MIMO-B
>>> 8.6M down, 4.4M up, 13.0M aggregate
>>>
>>> subscriber #2
>>> 8 miles with 2 lines of trees and a house in the path
>>> 4X MIMO-B
>>> 14.6M down, 4.6M up, 19.3M aggregate
>>>
>>> The AP and subscriber #1 have bad interference across the band,
>>> interference is not as bad at subscriber #2.
>>>
>>> These numbers may not look great compared to 100M aggregate capacity,
>>> but they are around a 6 times improvement over what we had with FSK.  I'm
>>> sure we would see better results at another site with less interference, in
>>> fact I have another tower where we can run 2X FSK but 4M aggregate just
>>> isn't enough capacity.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] -48v radio on same tower with +48v radio

[George Skorup]

Correct. +48 gear direct to the AD-155, including the input side of the 
RSD, meaning + to +, - to -. The RSDs have 4kV i/o isolation. So what I 
would do, to make sure you have everything commonly bonded on the 
return/ground side, is take the + side of the output on the RSD straight 
into your negative/return bus bar, terminal block strip or whatever you 
have. Also take the FG (frame ground) of any and all power supplies, 
DC-DC converters, surge suppressors, etc. to a common point.


Mixed systems are confusing until you wrap your mind around it. Return 
is return. Make all systems common/single-point grounded and you 
shouldn't have any issues.


On 1/5/2016 1:54 PM, Craig Baird wrote:
Great!  Thanks!  So let me make sure I'm clear on this.  I'll connect 
my +48v gear directly to the AD-155C.  Then, put the RSD-200C in-line 
between the AD-155C and the -48v gear. Is this right?


Craig


Quoting George Skorup :


Yup. Just use a RSD200C-48 and not worry about it.

On 1/5/2016 12:51 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
You need an isolated DC-DC converter between your +48V and -48V.  
Look into the Meanwell RSD series (not the SD).


Specifically, take a look at the RSD-200C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Craig Baird > wrote:


   I have a terrible time wrapping my head around -48vdc.  I'm hoping
   you guys can help.  I've got a Cambium PTP820S that I'm going to
   be putting on the same tower with several Mimosa B5s.  The 820S is
   apparently -48vdc, while it appears the Mimosa is +48vdc. I'd
   like to power both with a Meanwell AD-155C with a 48v battery
   string.  So... what are my implications here?  Will having both
   -48 and +48 radios on the same tower, coming from the same power
   supply end up shorting through the tower?  What's the best way to
   do this short of using two separate power supplies and battery
   strings?

   Thanks!

   Craig

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)

[Jaime Solorza]

Its pretty impressive...
On Jan 5, 2016 2:31 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> We finally got our 900mhz 450i put up... so far, I'm impressed.
> We only have two clients on it at this point, but if the link tests are
> anything to go by, it's a bit better than the PMP100 it replaced...
>
> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
> ActualActual
> 1895.00 Mbps14.60 Mbps109.61 Mbps,  7916 pps68661 (6866
> pps)10501(1050 pps)
>
>
> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
> ActualActual
> 1931.93 Mbps6.50 Mbps38.43 Mbps,  2767 pps23034 (2303
> pps)4645(464 pps)
>
>
> I have it running on a 20mhz channel right now, just because I can (there
> isn't any other 900mhz in the area), the second connection is a little on
> the weak side because of some terrain issues, but it actually wasn't too
> much worse running on a 10mhz channel (about 30mbps aggregate, if I
> remember right). It's not the best time of year to be testing NLOS
> connections, but signal levels are pretty close to what they were with the
> PMP100, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect... I'm hoping that dual
> slant will cut through the leaves a bit better than single H-pol did, but
> even if signal levels are only as good as the PMP100 was in the summer,
> this is going to be very usable.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> That's pretty good, I was expecting an average of more like 18-20ms. The
>> occasional spike to 250 for 1 or 2 seconds at a time is not unexpected at
>> 900MHz with noise and retransmits.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> SM is bridged and has an RFC1918 IP.  Test would have to be run on-net.
>>>
>>> I just tried a few ping tests from the (Cisco) tower router.  100 pings
>>> typically comes back around 4/10/35 for min/avg/max.  I ran 1000 pings
>>> though and got 4/11/48, ran another 1000 and got 4/12/248.  Zero packet
>>> loss, but apparently noise can cause an occasional latency spike, probably
>>> due to upstream.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:15 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)
>>>
>>> Any chance of running 'mtr' against the CPE IP of house #2 and leaving
>>> it for a few hours?  I'm curious what the min/max/average latency looks
>>> like.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 So yesterday I did some tweaking on the sync parameters and was able to
 get better results.  I'll put the details in a second post, but I wanted to
 update the grim picture I painted the other day.

 As initially set up, I was only getting 1X MIMO-A, even on a 5 MHz
 channel and after trying a bunch of frequencies, and the SMs would not
 reliably stay registered.

 After tweaking the sync parameters and channel, I was able to get one
 sub to 4X MIMO-B and the other to 2X MIMO-B, and increase the channel width
 to 7 MHz.  They have stayed registered now for 18 hours and while the speed
 varies a bit they hold 4X and 2X.  Here are linktest results I just ran:

 subscriber #1
 2 miles with a few bare trees and apparently some multipath issues
 2X MIMO-B
 8.6M down, 4.4M up, 13.0M aggregate

 subscriber #2
 8 miles with 2 lines of trees and a house in the path
 4X MIMO-B
 14.6M down, 4.6M up, 19.3M aggregate

 The AP and subscriber #1 have bad interference across the band,
 interference is not as bad at subscriber #2.

 These numbers may not look great compared to 100M aggregate capacity,
 but they are around a 6 times improvement over what we had with FSK.  I'm
 sure we would see better results at another site with less interference, in
 fact I have another tower where we can run 2X FSK but 4M aggregate just
 isn't enough capacity.


>>>
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] Looking for some P10 or newer 5.7 Advangage Connectorized Aps

[Craig Schmaderer]

Hit me off list.

Craig R. Schmaderer
CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc.
Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058
Direct: 402-372-1052

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Jay Weekley]

I heard Putin called Chuck Norris a wimp.  This will get interesting.

Josh Luthman wrote:

That's Chuck Norris...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Jay Weekley > wrote:


I hear Putin's tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries.


Chuck McCown wrote:

Would Putin cry at a press conference?

[AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?

[Craig Schmaderer]

Anybody have any info on this possibilty.

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Jaime Solorza]

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown
Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea
sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Chuck McCown]

They want to avoid another Waco and Ruby Ridge.  

The yokels don’t want them there.  The guys that are in jail don’t want them 
there.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:26 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown 
Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea sure 
more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Jaime Solorza]

I agree cooler heads should prevail but unfortunately our track record is a
bit jaded call it as I see it.  I was on a rooftop of state office
checking where to put a roof mount in Waco when it went down.  We had to
take alternate route back to Austin since 35 was closed.
On Jan 5, 2016 4:34 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> They want to avoid another Waco and Ruby Ridge.
>
> The yokels don’t want them there.  The guys that are in jail don’t want
> them there.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns
>
>
> Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown
> Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea
> sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...
>

[AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Judd Lists]

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
getting back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Ken Hohhof]

I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided standoff.  And that they 
are holding themselves hostage.  Like Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles?

Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown 
Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea sure 
more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Jaime Solorza]

Welcome backcoffee is hot...all copacetic. on your plans from your
mouth to God's ear good luck
On Jan 5, 2016 4:55 PM, "Judd Lists"  wrote:

> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
> few months.
>
> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>
> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>
> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
> getting back into it full-time.
>
> Judd Dare
> Mega Secure
>

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Ken Hohhof]

You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you are 
targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential customers 
have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.

From: Judd Lists 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm designing a 
new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via 
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last 5-7 
years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm getting 
back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

yeah, historically the feds and right wing separatists dont mix well.
Separatists dont destroy anything or have any real impact to others
liberties directly when theyre doing their nonsense so a police/fed
presence isnt really required, its not like theyre burning and looting
anything. They specifically stated they chose this location because its
remoteness and limited civilian population. I would venture a guess there
are plenty of semi trailers in the area randomly and inconspicuously placed
emitting some interesting encrypted RF traffic though. Definitely not an
instance where there is no fed presence.
You have to remember, the panthers and the rest of those yahoos though
armed only have enough ammunition for a few volleys and their armaments
arent well maintained, nor is their proficiency in their use well trained,
the potential risk is much lower with them for an armed confrontation and
can be resolved quickly simply through the starvation of ammunition.

To address this situation will require some serious recon just to find out
exactly how many people theyre dealing with, there is somewhere between 6
and 150, my bet is on 20 or so, but theyre all itching for a shootout. The
longer they wait it out, the more radical the people showing up are. After
a couple weeks there will probably be some attrition of those not as
devoted, but you know right know there are future theater shooters enroute
to join the cause, thats when it gets really dangerous, Im betting that is
the primary reason the feds opted to officially close the park, otherwise
they would have to let those yahoos in, its not about public safety, the
closing, its about maintaining a perimeter. That has a huge potential to
lead to secondary standoffs though when the real nutjobs show up and have
no place to go. Im pro gun anti oversight, but those bastards are going to
set a really bad example when they get there, hopefully the feds just put a
bunch of pills center mass and one in the bean for good measure, theater
shootings will go down. Its what you have to do with rabid dogs anyway.

Realistically, these guys arent committing any major crimes aside from
protesting and civil disobedience, just like these yahoos occupying college
campus offices across the country all summer. Theyre allowed to be armed
where theyre at so thats a moot point.

Hopefully this ultimately results in some reigning in of government
overstep and some federal lands being returned to the states. But these
guys are going to have to be put down too. And fast before they get kids on
site, the news loves images of shot kids.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> They want to avoid another Waco and Ruby Ridge.
>
> The yokels don’t want them there.  The guys that are in jail don’t want
> them there.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns
>
>
> Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown
> Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea
> sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?

[Matt]

> Anybody have any info on this possibilty.

It would be awesome.  I might even try some of the new 900 gear if so.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Bill Prince]

They were calling them "Y'all Qeda" or "Vanilla Isis" on the news last 
night.


Bunch of silliness or stupidness. Take your pick.

bp


On 1/5/2016 3:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided standoff.  And 
that they are holding themselves hostage. Like Cleavon Little in 
Blazing Saddles?

Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.
*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, 
Brown Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same 
treatment. yea sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin 
break...

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really started to
deliver on some really good WISP gear, its what we are all using, we crack
the cases and solder in some N connectors and put up massive antennas,
nothing but omnis too. Some guys are going a little more extravagant and
using netgear. :-)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you
> are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential
> customers have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.
>
> *From:* Judd Lists 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>
> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
> few months.
>
> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>
> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>
> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
> getting back into it full-time.
>
> Judd Dare
> Mega Secure
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Judd Lists]

Yes, commercial service mainly.  I might consider some residential, but I'm
going for the opposite end of the spectrum as I did when I started in this
industry 15 years ago.  Back then, I wanted to deliver the cheapest and
lowest cost service to anyone and everyone.  Now I'm focused on providing
only the top, highest quality service to the clients who are willing to pay
the price.  Oh.. and under promise, over deliver.

>From a customer perspective, I got a call yesterday from Comcast, to
upgrade my 65Mbps to 150Mbps for $3/Month more than I'm currently paying
and it would include TV and the online streaming/subscriptions, etc, for
$69.95/Month.  They pump that to $85/Month after the 12 month contract is
up.  They had a non-contract deal for $79/Month, same 150Mbps plan.

However, my business consulting clients pay $120-200/Month for just
Internet speeds from Comcast ranging from 18Mbps low end to 80Mbps high end
at $200-205/month.  That's the market I'll be after.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you
> are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential
> customers have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.
>
> *From:* Judd Lists 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>
> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
> few months.
>
> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>
> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>
> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
> getting back into it full-time.
>
> Judd Dare
> Mega Secure
>

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Judd Lists]

Hahaha.. do I know you Steve?  Dlink was doing very well with their early
MIMO gear when we'd attach them to 19dBi Panels and a 14dBi H-Pol sector in
a residential neighborhood.  We were seeing 50Mbps NLoS before anyone else
and nobody believed it was possible.

The future is now and I look forward to making some more of that impossible
happen in our neck of the woods. ;-)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really started to
> deliver on some really good WISP gear, its what we are all using, we crack
> the cases and solder in some N connectors and put up massive antennas,
> nothing but omnis too. Some guys are going a little more extravagant and
> using netgear. :-)
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you
>> are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential
>> customers have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.
>>
>> *From:* Judd Lists 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>>
>> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
>> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
>> few months.
>>
>> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
>> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>>
>> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>>
>> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
>> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
>> getting back into it full-time.
>>
>> Judd Dare
>> Mega Secure
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Patrick Leary]

Well, maybe second time around will be a charm for you and I Judd. In any 
event, I don’t post much…usually.

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 6:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm designing a 
new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via 
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last 5-7 
years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm getting 
back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure




This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.


 
 

This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[George Skorup]

You've been away long enough that you haven't met Steve Jones. Give it a 
few days and your eyes will pop out of your head as you read his rants, 
and you'll be laughing your ass off so hard that your wife looks at you 
funny and wonders if there's something wrong with you, more than she 
usually does.


On 1/5/2016 6:16 PM, Judd Lists wrote:
Hahaha.. do I know you Steve?  Dlink was doing very well with their 
early MIMO gear when we'd attach them to 19dBi Panels and a 14dBi 
H-Pol sector in a residential neighborhood. We were seeing 50Mbps NLoS 
before anyone else and nobody believed it was possible.


The future is now and I look forward to making some more of that 
impossible happen in our neck of the woods. ;-)


On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really
started to deliver on some really good WISP gear, its what we are
all using, we crack the cases and solder in some N connectors and
put up massive antennas, nothing but omnis too. Some guys are
going a little more extravagant and using netgear. :-)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years? From your description, I
hope you are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be
prepared, residential customers have become very “entitled” in
the past 5-7 years.
*From:* Judd Lists 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
Listening in for now. Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since
I'm designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some
investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better
(yes, via wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for
long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's
allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other
things the last 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for
me and I love it so much I'm getting back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Mathew Howard]

and don't forget the 1 watt amplifier... you need that!

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:14 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really started to
> deliver on some really good WISP gear, its what we are all using, we crack
> the cases and solder in some N connectors and put up massive antennas,
> nothing but omnis too. Some guys are going a little more extravagant and
> using netgear. :-)
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you
>> are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential
>> customers have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.
>>
>> *From:* Judd Lists 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>>
>> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
>> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
>> few months.
>>
>> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
>> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>>
>> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>>
>> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
>> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
>> getting back into it full-time.
>>
>> Judd Dare
>> Mega Secure
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Judd Lists]

"usually".. LOL  Somehow I feel the preacher may be back. Hahaha.

I'll probably keep it pretty quiet, but who knows.

I've heard some kinda interesting stuff about the Telrad LTE.  Not really
fast enough for what I'm looking at and I won't mention what I think of the
price point. ;-)

Regardless, hi Patrick.  Go easy on your neighbors who just want to shoot
their guns.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Patrick Leary 
wrote:

> Well, maybe second time around will be a charm for you and I Judd. In any
> event, I don’t post much…usually.
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>
> 727-501-3735
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Judd Lists
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 5, 2016 6:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>
>
>
> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
> few months.
>
> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>
> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>
> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last
> 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm
> getting back into it full-time.
>
> Judd Dare
> Mega Secure
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
> viruses.
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
> viruses.
>
> 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Judd Lists]

I used to be that one guy George. The infamous Judd Dare or
ad...@microworld.com if you want to google it, if the records still exist
out there.  Ha!

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> You've been away long enough that you haven't met Steve Jones. Give it a
> few days and your eyes will pop out of your head as you read his rants, and
> you'll be laughing your ass off so hard that your wife looks at you funny
> and wonders if there's something wrong with you, more than she usually does.
>
> On 1/5/2016 6:16 PM, Judd Lists wrote:
>
> Hahaha.. do I know you Steve?  Dlink was doing very well with their early
> MIMO gear when we'd attach them to 19dBi Panels and a 14dBi H-Pol sector in
> a residential neighborhood.  We were seeing 50Mbps NLoS before anyone else
> and nobody believed it was possible.
>
> The future is now and I look forward to making some more of that
> impossible happen in our neck of the woods. ;-)
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really started to
>> deliver on some really good WISP gear, its what we are all using, we crack
>> the cases and solder in some N connectors and put up massive antennas,
>> nothing but omnis too. Some guys are going a little more extravagant and
>> using netgear. :-)
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof < 
>> af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you
>>> are targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential
>>> customers have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.
>>>
>>> *From:* Judd Lists 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!
>>>
>>> Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm
>>> designing a new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next
>>> few months.
>>>
>>> Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via
>>> wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.
>>>
>>> Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.
>>>
>>> Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the
>>> last 5-7 years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so
>>> much I'm getting back into it full-time.
>>>
>>> Judd Dare
>>> Mega Secure
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)

[Gino Villarini]

still waiting on my kit

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Its pretty impressive...
> On Jan 5, 2016 2:31 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> We finally got our 900mhz 450i put up... so far, I'm impressed.
>> We only have two clients on it at this point, but if the link tests are
>> anything to go by, it's a bit better than the PMP100 it replaced...
>>
>> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
>> ActualActual
>> 1895.00 Mbps14.60 Mbps109.61 Mbps,  7916 pps68661 (6866
>> pps)10501(1050 pps)
>>
>>
>> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
>> ActualActual
>> 1931.93 Mbps6.50 Mbps38.43 Mbps,  2767 pps23034 (2303
>> pps)4645(464 pps)
>>
>>
>> I have it running on a 20mhz channel right now, just because I can (there
>> isn't any other 900mhz in the area), the second connection is a little on
>> the weak side because of some terrain issues, but it actually wasn't too
>> much worse running on a 10mhz channel (about 30mbps aggregate, if I
>> remember right). It's not the best time of year to be testing NLOS
>> connections, but signal levels are pretty close to what they were with the
>> PMP100, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect... I'm hoping that dual
>> slant will cut through the leaves a bit better than single H-pol did, but
>> even if signal levels are only as good as the PMP100 was in the summer,
>> this is going to be very usable.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's pretty good, I was expecting an average of more like 18-20ms. The
>>> occasional spike to 250 for 1 or 2 seconds at a time is not unexpected at
>>> 900MHz with noise and retransmits.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 SM is bridged and has an RFC1918 IP.  Test would have to be run on-net.

 I just tried a few ping tests from the (Cisco) tower router.  100 pings
 typically comes back around 4/10/35 for min/avg/max.  I ran 1000 pings
 though and got 4/11/48, ran another 1000 and got 4/12/248.  Zero packet
 loss, but apparently noise can cause an occasional latency spike, probably
 due to upstream.


 *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
 *Sent:* Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:15 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)

 Any chance of running 'mtr' against the CPE IP of house #2 and leaving
 it for a few hours?  I'm curious what the min/max/average latency looks
 like.

 On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So yesterday I did some tweaking on the sync parameters and was able
> to get better results.  I'll put the details in a second post, but I 
> wanted
> to update the grim picture I painted the other day.
>
> As initially set up, I was only getting 1X MIMO-A, even on a 5 MHz
> channel and after trying a bunch of frequencies, and the SMs would not
> reliably stay registered.
>
> After tweaking the sync parameters and channel, I was able to get one
> sub to 4X MIMO-B and the other to 2X MIMO-B, and increase the channel 
> width
> to 7 MHz.  They have stayed registered now for 18 hours and while the 
> speed
> varies a bit they hold 4X and 2X.  Here are linktest results I just ran:
>
> subscriber #1
> 2 miles with a few bare trees and apparently some multipath issues
> 2X MIMO-B
> 8.6M down, 4.4M up, 13.0M aggregate
>
> subscriber #2
> 8 miles with 2 lines of trees and a house in the path
> 4X MIMO-B
> 14.6M down, 4.6M up, 19.3M aggregate
>
> The AP and subscriber #1 have bad interference across the band,
> interference is not as bad at subscriber #2.
>
> These numbers may not look great compared to 100M aggregate capacity,
> but they are around a 6 times improvement over what we had with FSK.  I'm
> sure we would see better results at another site with less interference, 
> in
> fact I have another tower where we can run 2X FSK but 4M aggregate just
> isn't enough capacity.
>
>

>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

A lot of the our backlog cleared out just before year end.  Waiting mostly for 
antennas to fill the rest.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 8:03 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> still waiting on my kit
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> Its pretty impressive...
>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2016 2:31 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>> We finally got our 900mhz 450i put up... so far, I'm impressed.
>>> We only have two clients on it at this point, but if the link tests are 
>>> anything to go by, it's a bit better than the PMP100 it replaced...
>>> 
>>> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
>>> ActualActual
>>> 1895.00 Mbps14.60 Mbps109.61 Mbps,  7916 pps68661 (6866 
>>> pps)10501(1050 pps)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket Receive
>>> ActualActual
>>> 1931.93 Mbps6.50 Mbps38.43 Mbps,  2767 pps23034 (2303 pps)  
>>>   4645(464 pps)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have it running on a 20mhz channel right now, just because I can (there 
>>> isn't any other 900mhz in the area), the second connection is a little on 
>>> the weak side because of some terrain issues, but it actually wasn't too 
>>> much worse running on a 10mhz channel (about 30mbps aggregate, if I 
>>> remember right). It's not the best time of year to be testing NLOS 
>>> connections, but signal levels are pretty close to what they were with the 
>>> PMP100, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect... I'm hoping that dual 
>>> slant will cut through the leaves a bit better than single H-pol did, but 
>>> even if signal levels are only as good as the PMP100 was in the summer, 
>>> this is going to be very usable.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
 That's pretty good, I was expecting an average of more like 18-20ms. The 
 occasional spike to 250 for 1 or 2 seconds at a time is not unexpected at 
 900MHz with noise and retransmits.
 
 
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> SM is bridged and has an RFC1918 IP.  Test would have to be run on-net.
>  
> I just tried a few ping tests from the (Cisco) tower router.  100 pings 
> typically comes back around 4/10/35 for min/avg/max.  I ran 1000 pings 
> though and got 4/11/48, ran another 1000 and got 4/12/248.  Zero packet 
> loss, but apparently noise can cause an occasional latency spike, 
> probably due to upstream.
>  
>  
> From: Eric Kuhnke
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:15 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz 450i update with better results :-)
>  
> Any chance of running 'mtr' against the CPE IP of house #2 and leaving it 
> for a few hours?  I'm curious what the min/max/average latency looks like.
>  
>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
>> So yesterday I did some tweaking on the sync parameters and was able to 
>> get better results.  I'll put the details in a second post, but I wanted 
>> to update the grim picture I painted the other day.
>> 
>> As initially set up, I was only getting 1X MIMO-A, even on a 5 MHz 
>> channel and after trying a bunch of frequencies, and the SMs would not 
>> reliably stay registered.
>> 
>> After tweaking the sync parameters and channel, I was able to get one 
>> sub to 4X MIMO-B and the other to 2X MIMO-B, and increase the channel 
>> width to 7 MHz.  They have stayed registered now for 18 hours and while 
>> the speed varies a bit they hold 4X and 2X.  Here are linktest results I 
>> just ran:
>> 
>> subscriber #1
>> 2 miles with a few bare trees and apparently some multipath issues
>> 2X MIMO-B
>> 8.6M down, 4.4M up, 13.0M aggregate
>> 
>> subscriber #2
>> 8 miles with 2 lines of trees and a house in the path
>> 4X MIMO-B
>> 14.6M down, 4.6M up, 19.3M aggregate
>> 
>> The AP and subscriber #1 have bad interference across the band, 
>> interference is not as bad at subscriber #2.
>> 
>> These numbers may not look great compared to 100M aggregate capacity, 
>> but they are around a 6 times improvement over what we had with FSK.  
>> I'm sure we would see better results at another site with less 
>> interference, in fact I have another tower where we can run 2X FSK but 
>> 4M aggregate just isn't enough capacity.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Josh Reynolds]

"Yeehadists" is the best one I've heard by far.

There's a lot of stories going around that their reason for the fire was to
cover up a mass poaching of deer in the area with automatic weapons.

Don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Best thing the feds can do is just wait them out. They didn't plan for a
"siege" and have been asking for food and water deliveries from supporters.
On Jan 5, 2016 6:08 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> They were calling them "Y'all Qeda" or "Vanilla Isis" on the news last
> night.
>
> Bunch of silliness or stupidness. Take your pick.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 1/5/2016 3:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided standoff.  And that
> they are holding themselves hostage.  Like Cleavon Little in Blazing
> Saddles?
>
> Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns
>
>
> Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown
> Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea
> sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Reynolds]

Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things
like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block
controls both ends of the tunnel.
On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server
> running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn
> instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi
> captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>
>> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
>> standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
>> responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
>> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
>> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
>>
>> An ISP is a* pipe*.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?

[Ken Hohhof]

I wonder if the 900 MHz AP has as much stuff inside as other 450i APs. 
Certainly the higher packet processing capability would not be needed.  The 
power consumption (in watts) is about the same as a regular 450 AP, nowhere 
near 30 watts.


Just speculating if Cambium would maybe have more leeway to be creative 
about pricing.




-Original Message- 
From: Matt

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 6:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?


Anybody have any info on this possibilty.


It would be awesome.  I might even try some of the new 900 gear if so. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Ken Hohhof]

yeah, radio yesterday was saying they didn’t bring enough Doritos

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 7:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

"Yeehadists" is the best one I've heard by far.

There's a lot of stories going around that their reason for the fire was to 
cover up a mass poaching of deer in the area with automatic weapons.

Don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Best thing the feds can do is just wait them out. They didn't plan for a 
"siege" and have been asking for food and water deliveries from supporters.

On Jan 5, 2016 6:08 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

  They were calling them "Y'all Qeda" or "Vanilla Isis" on the news last night.

  Bunch of silliness or stupidness. Take your pick.


bp


On 1/5/2016 3:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided standoff.  And that 
they are holding themselves hostage.  Like Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles?

Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown 
Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea sure 
more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Paul Stewart]

Interesting (and welcome back!)….

 

There is always room in the commercial market for more providers in my opinion. 
 In  a lot of situations, you may very well find that you can compete with the 
same level of pricing but excel at service levels and customer service.  This 
is very important on commercial services and separates the “cheap” business 
customers from the “premium” customers – and the premium are typically less 
demanding and easier to work with once you build a relationship (and oh yeah, 
better at paying their bills too).

 

Good luck to you!  There is a mid sized wireless provider here in Canada that 
competes in that market quite well – TeraGo Networks is their name 
http://www.terago.ca/business-internet-data-cloud-services/high-speed-internet-for-business/high-speed-internet/

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

 

Yes, commercial service mainly.  I might consider some residential, but I'm 
going for the opposite end of the spectrum as I did when I started in this 
industry 15 years ago.  Back then, I wanted to deliver the cheapest and lowest 
cost service to anyone and everyone.  Now I'm focused on providing only the 
top, highest quality service to the clients who are willing to pay the price.  
Oh.. and under promise, over deliver.

>From a customer perspective, I got a call yesterday from Comcast, to upgrade 
>my 65Mbps to 150Mbps for $3/Month more than I'm currently paying and it would 
>include TV and the online streaming/subscriptions, etc, for $69.95/Month.  
>They pump that to $85/Month after the 12 month contract is up.  They had a 
>non-contract deal for $79/Month, same 150Mbps plan.

However, my business consulting clients pay $120-200/Month for just Internet 
speeds from Comcast ranging from 18Mbps low end to 80Mbps high end at 
$200-205/month.  That's the market I'll be after.

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you are 
targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential customers 
have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.

 

From: Judd Lists   

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

 

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm designing a 
new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via 
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last 5-7 
years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm getting 
back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure

 

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Patrick Leary]

I’ll never keep quiet about neighbors ion ¼ acre city lots shooting guns at 
targets outside behind which sit occupied homes, schools, day cares, and 
churches. Even if that is 100% legal in FL today.

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

"usually".. LOL  Somehow I feel the preacher may be back. Hahaha.

I'll probably keep it pretty quiet, but who knows.

I've heard some kinda interesting stuff about the Telrad LTE.  Not really fast 
enough for what I'm looking at and I won't mention what I think of the price 
point. ;-)

Regardless, hi Patrick.  Go easy on your neighbors who just want to shoot their 
guns.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Patrick Leary 
mailto:patrick.le...@telrad.com>> wrote:
Well, maybe second time around will be a charm for you and I Judd. In any 
event, I don’t post much…usually.

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 6:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm designing a 
new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via 
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last 5-7 
years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm getting 
back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure




This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.


 
 

This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.

Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm baaaaack!

[Patrick Leary]

I suspect we’ve all evolved over these many years. That we survive still is a 
testament to our staying power, which hints either at insanity or stubbornness….

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 7:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

I used to be that one guy George. The infamous Judd Dare or 
ad...@microworld.com if you want to google it, if 
the records still exist out there.  Ha!

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
You've been away long enough that you haven't met Steve Jones. Give it a few 
days and your eyes will pop out of your head as you read his rants, and you'll 
be laughing your ass off so hard that your wife looks at you funny and wonders 
if there's something wrong with you, more than she usually does.
On 1/5/2016 6:16 PM, Judd Lists wrote:
Hahaha.. do I know you Steve?  Dlink was doing very well with their early MIMO 
gear when we'd attach them to 19dBi Panels and a 14dBi H-Pol sector in a 
residential neighborhood.  We were seeing 50Mbps NLoS before anyone else and 
nobody believed it was possible.

The future is now and I look forward to making some more of that impossible 
happen in our neck of the woods. ;-)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
just so you know, while you have been away, Dlink has really started to deliver 
on some really good WISP gear, its what we are all using, we crack the cases 
and solder in some N connectors and put up massive antennas, nothing but omnis 
too. Some guys are going a little more extravagant and using netgear. :-)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
You’ve been out of it for 5-7 years?  From your description, I hope you are 
targeting business customers.  Otherwise, be prepared, residential customers 
have become very “entitled” in the past 5-7 years.

From: Judd Lists
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Hey guys... I'm back!

Listening in for now.  Thought I'd pop on a couple lists since I'm designing a 
new WISP and going to be bringing in some investors in the next few months.

Going to be focusing on delivering 100-300Mbps plans or better (yes, via 
wireless) and will be doing some fiber planning for long-term.

Working on getting the first GigE backhaul and a few POP's allocated.

Hello again!  I've been mostly consulting and doing other things the last 5-7 
years, but wireless is still a passion for me and I love it so much I'm getting 
back into it full-time.

Judd Dare
Mega Secure



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.







This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.


 
 

This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.

Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?

[Mathew Howard]

I hope so, I would really like to see a Lite AP... in 900mhz, I don't
really see much point in a 5ghz 450i Lite AP at this point.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I wonder if the 900 MHz AP has as much stuff inside as other 450i APs.
> Certainly the higher packet processing capability would not be needed.  The
> power consumption (in watts) is about the same as a regular 450 AP, nowhere
> near 30 watts.
>
> Just speculating if Cambium would maybe have more leeway to be creative
> about pricing.
>
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 6:06 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?
>
>
> Anybody have any info on this possibilty.
>>
>
> It would be awesome.  I might even try some of the new 900 gear if so.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?

[Jon Langeler]

Why not hook up a few business customers on a lite AP? that or we use another 
brand all together. It would make sense to be able to deploy just one product 
across the board...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> I hope so, I would really like to see a Lite AP... in 900mhz, I don't really 
> see much point in a 5ghz 450i Lite AP at this point.
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> I wonder if the 900 MHz AP has as much stuff inside as other 450i APs. 
>> Certainly the higher packet processing capability would not be needed.  The 
>> power consumption (in watts) is about the same as a regular 450 AP, nowhere 
>> near 30 watts.
>> 
>> Just speculating if Cambium would maybe have more leeway to be creative 
>> about pricing.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Matt
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 6:06 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i Lite AP?
>> 
>> 
>>> Anybody have any info on this possibilty.
>> 
>> It would be awesome.  I might even try some of the new 900 gear if so.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Eric Kuhnke]

Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or
openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs.
On Jan 5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things
> like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block
> controls both ends of the tunnel.
> On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
>> It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server
>> running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn
>> instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi
>> captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Justin Wilson
>>> j...@mtin.net
>>>
>>> ---
>>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>>
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>>
>>> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
>>> standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
>>> responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
>>> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
>>> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
>>>
>>> An ISP is a* pipe*.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>
 We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
 house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
 Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
 content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
 computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
 to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
 want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
 connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Luthman]

Upsidedownternet :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or
> openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs.
> On Jan 5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things
>> like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block
>> controls both ends of the tunnel.
>> On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server
>>> running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn
>>> instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi
>>> captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>>

 http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html



 Justin Wilson
 j...@mtin.net

 ---
 http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
 xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

 On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

 As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
 standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
 responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
 self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
 software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.

 An ISP is a* pipe*.

 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be 
> able
> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>



>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Philip Rankin]

I have used open dns pretty successfully.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Upsidedownternet :)
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
>> Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or
>> openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs.
>> On Jan 5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>>> Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things
>>> like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block
>>> controls both ends of the tunnel.
>>> On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>>
 It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn
 server running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an
 openvpn instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like
 a wifi captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive
 firewall.

 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
> standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
> responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
>
> An ISP is a* pipe*.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be 
>> able
>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on 
>> their
>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Tim Reichhart]

Philip that requires an static IP for one customer fyi.

Tim


-Original Message-
From: "Philip Rankin" 
To: af 
Date: 01/05/16 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

I have used open dns pretty successfully.
 
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

Upsidedownternet :)
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  
wrote:

Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or openvpn. 
Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs.On Jan 5, 2016 
5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things like 
ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block controls both 
ends of the tunnel.On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" 
 wrote:
It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server 
running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn 
instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi 
captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
 
 
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html






Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net


---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting - Data Centers - Bandwidth

 
 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
 



On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:


 
As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than standard 
ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or responsibility. 
If people want to implement their own firewall at their self-owned router/CPE, 
let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny software for their end point 
device, that's their responsibility.


An ISP is a pipe.
 
 
 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 



--
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762
 
 
Call
Send SMS
Call from mobile
Add to Skype
You'll need Skype CreditFree via Skype

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Philip Rankin]

Not really.  There is a little program that open dns supplies that keeps
the network info current with them.  It all works very well.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Tim Reichhart <
timreichh...@hometowncable.net> wrote:

> Philip that requires an static IP for one customer fyi.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Philip Rankin" 
> To: af 
> Date: 01/05/16 10:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>
> I have used open dns pretty successfully.
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Upsidedownternet :)
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or
>>> openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs.
>>> On Jan 5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>>
 Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things
 like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block
 controls both ends of the tunnel.
 On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn
> server running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an
> openvpn instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like
> a wifi captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive
> firewall.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting - Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>>
>>  http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other
>> than standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing? It's not your duty
>> or responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at 
>> their
>> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
>> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
>>
>> An ISP is a *pipe*.
>>
>>
>>  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>>> house. The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>>> Services. Is there any way to block someone like this? I'm guessing any
>>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>>> computer behind the router. Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be 
>>> able
>>> to bypass. Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>>> want? Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on 
>>> their
>>> connection during the overnight hours. Other options?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Philip J. Rankin
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS 66762
>
>
>
> Call
> Send SMS
> Call from mobile
> Add to Skype
> You'll need Skype CreditFree via Skype
>



-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Tim Reichhart]

Philip I know what program your talking about and it only takes one smart kid 
to remove it.



-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
From: "Philip Rankin" 
To: af 
Date: 01/06/16 04:33:16am

Not really.  There is a little program that open dns supplies that keeps the 
network info current with them.  It all works very well. 
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Tim Reichhart  
wrote:
Philip that requires an static IP for one customer fyi.

Tim

-Original Message-
From: "Philip Rankin" 
To: af 
Date: 01/05/16 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

I have used open dns pretty successfully. 
 On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
Upsidedownternet :)Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  
wrote:Google 'obfsproxy' , it can be used with a self hosted tor relay or 
openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs. On Jan 
5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:Yup. If you 
really want to get around VPN blockers, proxies, and things like ssh tunnels... 
It's really hard when the person you want to block controls both ends of the 
tunnel. On Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:It 
takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server running 
in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn instance for 
just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi captive portal in 
an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
  
 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html


Justin wilsonj...@mtin.net
---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEOxISP Solutions- Consulting - Data Centers - 
Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman 
On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
 As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than 
standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing? It's not your duty or 
responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their 
self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny software 
for their end point device, that's their responsibility.

An ISP is a pipe.
  
 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house. The 
person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services. Is there 
any way to block someone like this? I'm guessing any content filtering wouldn't 
work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. Any sort 
of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass. Is there any way to stop a 
tech person from getting what they want? Right now our only thought is to put 
in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours. Other 
options?
 
  
  
 

--
 Philip J. RankinWireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS 66762CallSend SMSCall from mobileAdd to SkypeYou'll need 
Skype CreditFree via Skype

--
Philip J. RankinWireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[Jaime Solorza]

Funny...but not Ha Ha... Cd. Juarez only had 311 murders for 2015  Down
from thousands years before...2010 it was the murder capital of the
world...guess where they got the guns?
On Jan 5, 2016 6:43 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> yeah, radio yesterday was saying they didn’t bring enough Doritos
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 7:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns
>
>
> "Yeehadists" is the best one I've heard by far.
>
> There's a lot of stories going around that their reason for the fire was
> to cover up a mass poaching of deer in the area with automatic weapons.
>
> Don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
>
> Best thing the feds can do is just wait them out. They didn't plan for a
> "siege" and have been asking for food and water deliveries from supporters.
> On Jan 5, 2016 6:08 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> They were calling them "Y'all Qeda" or "Vanilla Isis" on the news last
>> night.
>>
>> Bunch of silliness or stupidness. Take your pick.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 1/5/2016 3:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided standoff.  And
>> that they are holding themselves hostage.  Like Cleavon Little in Blazing
>> Saddles?
>>
>> Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns
>>
>>
>> Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if AIM, Brown
>> Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get same treatment. yea
>> sure more guns solves problem.  Give me a fuckin break...
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Jay Weekley]

A place I have a part time job at used Open DNS to filter websites. I 
just changed the computer I wanted to bypass to 4.2.2.1 and went where I 
wanted and changed it back when I was done. No porn of course.


Tim Reichhart wrote:

Philip I know what program your talking about and it only takes one smart kid 
to remove it.
and


-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
From: "Philip Rankin" 
To: af 
Date: 01/06/16 04:33:16am

Not really.  There is a little program that open dns supplies that keeps the 
network info current with them.  It all works very well.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Tim Reichhart  
wrote:
Philip that requires an static IP for one customer fyi.

Tim

-Original Message-
From: "Philip Rankin" 
To: af 
Date: 01/05/16 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

I have used open dns pretty successfully.
  On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
Upsidedownternet :)Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 5, 2016 9:40 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:Google 'obfsproxy' , it can 
be used with a self hosted tor relay or openvpn. Make all your net traffic look like http (not HTTPS) cat jpegs. On Jan 5, 2016 
5:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:Yup. If you really want to get around VPN blockers, 
proxies, and things like ssh tunnels... It's really hard when the person you want to block controls both ends of the tunnel. On 
Jan 4, 2016 3:00 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 
'block' an openvpn server running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn instance for just this 
purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.
   
  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html


Justin wilsonj...@mtin.net
---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEOxISP Solutions- Consulting - Data Centers - 
Bandwidth

   http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman
On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
  As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than 
standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing? It's not your duty or 
responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their 
self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny software 
for their end point device, that's their responsibility.

An ISP is a pipe.
   
  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house. The 
person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services. Is there 
any way to block someone like this? I'm guessing any content filtering wouldn't 
work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. Any sort 
of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass. Is there any way to stop a 
tech person from getting what they want? Right now our only thought is to put 
in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours. Other 
options?
  
   
   
  


--
  Philip J. RankinWireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS 66762CallSend SMSCall from mobileAdd to SkypeYou'll need 
Skype CreditFree via Skype

--
Philip J. RankinWireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

[George Skorup]

From the ATF.

On 1/5/2016 10:20 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


Funny...but not Ha Ha... Cd. Juarez only had 311 murders for 2015  
Down from thousands years before...2010 it was the murder capital of 
the world...guess where they got the guns?


On Jan 5, 2016 6:43 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote:


yeah, radio yesterday was saying they didn’t bring enough Doritos
*From:* Josh Reynolds 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 7:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

"Yeehadists" is the best one I've heard by far.

There's a lot of stories going around that their reason for the
fire was to cover up a mass poaching of deer in the area with
automatic weapons.

Don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Best thing the feds can do is just wait them out. They didn't plan
for a "siege" and have been asking for food and water deliveries
from supporters.

On Jan 5, 2016 6:08 PM, "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

They were calling them "Y'all Qeda" or "Vanilla Isis" on the
news last night.

Bunch of silliness or stupidness. Take your pick.

bp


On 1/5/2016 3:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I have heard the Oregon thing described as a one-sided
standoff.  And that they are holding themselves hostage. 
Like Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles?

Amazing the media attention they’re getting though.
*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:26 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns

Funny. no moves against yoyos in Oregon ...hum? Wonder if
AIM, Brown Berets, Black Panthers or even Muslims would get
same treatment. yea sure more guns solves problem. Give
me a fuckin break...