Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Rory Conaway]

Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car owners.

Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than what you 
probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and the car gets 
about 3.5-4m per kWh.

Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.  Solar 
doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and doesn’t get 
home until after 6:30.

Rory


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I always 
use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.

I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other places 
I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.

But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as low as 8 
cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents per mile.  (2.4 
cents per mile at the lower tariff)

Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that it’s 
actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I definitely 
notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are seeing 120-125 mile 
on the display even after using 5-8% of the battery.   Considering you can 
drive one for about $4K a year, almost no maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost 
of gas, it’s got to be one of the best values out there.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...

From: can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this will hurt 
sales? They already did this to the Model X.
Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Interesting note from Tesla this morning:

Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will have 
until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will have the 
ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air update.

[AFMUG] FW: Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[Paul McCall]

BUMP 😊

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider to 
include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?

Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you intend to 
use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to successfully apply 
with those frequencies.

We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting the issue 
with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have some references of 
WISPs who also have these protections.

Thanks!

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

[AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Paul McCall]

Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it 
monitors / powers from?

We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to 
monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery array. 
Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of similar 48v 
wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different voltages 
and I don’t need to buy anything 😊

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] FW: Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[Chris Fabien]

Hi Paul,
We put all sorts of protections in our leases on private structures, I'm
sure you do too. When we were dealing with american tower on a cell phone
tower, the most they would approve was a "play nice" clause saying they
would basically require any subsequent tower tenant work in good faith to
resolve any unlicensed interference issues. It offered no real protection.
They clearly did not want to be the frequency police on their towers.
Somewhat understandable I suppose.

Not sure this was helpful but that was our experience.

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC



On Mar 20, 2017 8:20 AM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:

> BUMP 😊
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 4:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases
>
>
>
> Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider to
> include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?
>
>
>
> Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you intend
> to use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to successfully
> apply with those frequencies.
>
>
>
> We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting the
> issue with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have some
> references of WISPs who also have these protections.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Josh Baird]

Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
> monitors / powers from?
>
>
>
> We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to
> monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery
> array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of
> similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2
> different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FW: Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[Jay Weekley]

I could some language that says that for some upcoming leases.  We also 
have an upcoming lease on a tower we are currently on and the owner says 
he may put his FM station there as well.  I'm wondering if we can 
include any language that gives us recourse if he causes us problems.


Paul McCall wrote:


BUMP 😊

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 4:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider 
to include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?


Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you 
intend to use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to 
successfully apply with those frequencies.


We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting 
the issue with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have 
some references of WISPs who also have these protections.


Thanks!

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 2016.0.8007 / Virus Database: 4756/14149 - Release Date: 03/20/17

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Josh Luthman]

That's exactly what we use it for.  Volts1 is utility (we use some random
wall wart) and volts2 is the battery.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
>> monitors / powers from?
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to
>> monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery
>> array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of
>> similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2
>> different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Bill Prince]

We use inputs from 12V to 56V as long as it's a Base II; mix and match. 
They all have to be negative ground too.


bp


On 3/20/2017 5:24 AM, Paul McCall wrote:


Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that 
it monitors / powers from?


We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart 
to monitor commercial power. And, the 2^nd input is off the 24v 
battery array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to 
buy a bunch of similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can 
deal with the 2 different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊


Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[George Skorup]

Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II 
first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.


I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so 
it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old 
Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall 
brick for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power 
supplies if I can find them because they're linear. We're at many towers 
with crappy power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end 
up with <100VAC and our UPS transfers to battery. Most switching bricks 
will operate down to 80-85VAC. Has happened more times that I can 
remember. Site goes down because the batteries ran down, yet we never 
got a utility power alarm. The linear brick lets you see the voltage 
situation. Problem is, they're getting pretty hard to find now.


On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall > wrote:


Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs
that it monitors / powers from?

We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall
wart to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2^nd input is off the
24v battery array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I
need to buy a bunch of similar 48v wall warts or whether the
SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different voltages and I don’t
need to buy anything 😊

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

[Adam Moffett]

The only time I ever got a virus is when some other jerk used my 
computer, so having AV at all is just so other people don't get uppity 
with me about not having it.


What I like about Defender (and MSSE before it) is that it works quietly 
in the background and doesn't pester me.  If it doesn't work well, at 
least it's not being noisy about it.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/19/2017 10:08:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed


Defender is the best AV system out there.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: "Rory Conaway" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:30:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

The pathetic way Windows Defender works, I doubt it takes a lot of 
bandwidth.




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:13 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed



It's definitely better than it was for awhile, but we've had a couple 
customers complaining that "their connection never works" in the last 
couple weeks, and when I checked it was the same old thing with a 
couple dozen TCP connections to 13.x.x.x IP addresses completely 
killing the connection. At least one of them said there was an update 
going, but it could very well be something like Windows Defender.




On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:


I think they changed something.  Windows 10 updates used to cripple my 
home connection, but lately I haven't noticed them.


I have recently had an incident where some Windows system process is 
downloading something from a Microsoft IP address and that download 
crippled me.  Settings -> Updates & Security didn't indicate any update 
was downloading.  I think I eventually determined it to be the Windows 
Defender that was doing the downloading, but I don't remember how I 
concluded that.






-- Original Message --
From: "Nate Burke" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 3/16/2017 10:20:30 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

So it seems like when a customer wants to update a windows 10 machine, 
it will gladly and readily take all available bandwidth (and more).  
I'm updating 2 brand new windows 10 machines in the NOC, plugged into 
gigabit Ethernet, and they're downloading the windows updates at 
<2mb/s.  I would have expected them to just fly.

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

[Mike Hammett]

Agreed. A fully patched system used by someone competent is likely more secure 
than one that isn't, ran by an idiot and has AV. 

https://www.onmsft.com/news/google-chrome-engineer-says-windows-defender-the-only-well-behaved-av
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:39:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed 



The only time I ever got a virus is when some other jerk used my computer, so 
having AV at all is just so other people don't get uppity with me about not 
having it. 





What I like about Defender (and MSSE before it) is that it works quietly in the 
background and doesn't pester me. If it doesn't work well, at least it's not 
being noisy about it. 




-- Original Message -- 
From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/19/2017 10:08:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed 





Defender is the best AV system out there. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:30:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed 



The pathetic way Windows Defender works, I doubt it takes a lot of bandwidth. 

Rory 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:13 AM 
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed 


It's definitely better than it was for awhile, but we've had a couple customers 
complaining that "their connection never works" in the last couple weeks, and 
when I checked it was the same old thing with a couple dozen TCP connections to 
13.x.x.x IP addresses completely killing the connection. At least one of them 
said there was an update going, but it could very well be something like 
Windows Defender. 



On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
I think they changed something. Windows 10 updates used to cripple my home 
connection, but lately I haven't noticed them. 

I have recently had an incident where some Windows system process is 
downloading something from a Microsoft IP address and that download crippled 
me. Settings -> Updates & Security didn't indicate any update was downloading. 
I think I eventually determined it to be the Windows Defender that was doing 
the downloading, but I don't remember how I concluded that. 






-- Original Message -- 
From: "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: 3/16/2017 10:20:30 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed 
So it seems like when a customer wants to update a windows 10 machine, it will 
gladly and readily take all available bandwidth (and more). I'm updating 2 
brand new windows 10 machines in the NOC, plugged into gigabit Ethernet, and 
they're downloading the windows updates at <2mb/s. I would have expected them 
to just fly. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Chuck McCown]

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can use it 
anytime of day.

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car owners.  
  

 

Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than what you 
probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and the car gets 
about 3.5-4m per kWh.   

 

Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.  Solar 
doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and doesn’t get 
home until after 6:30.  

 

Rory 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I always 
use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.  

 

I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other places 
I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.  

 

But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as low as 8 
cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents per mile.  (2.4 
cents per mile at the lower tariff)

 

Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.   

 

From: Rory Conaway 

Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that it’s 
actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I definitely 
notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are seeing 120-125 mile 
on the display even after using 5-8% of the battery.   Considering you can 
drive one for about $4K a year, almost no maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost 
of gas, it’s got to be one of the best values out there.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...

 

From: can...@believewireless.net 

Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this will hurt 
sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?

 

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:

 

Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will have 
until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will have the 
ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air update.

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

[Chris Wright]

Hear hear! I’ve been rocking MSSE since 2010 and never looked back.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 8:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

The only time I ever got a virus is when some other jerk used my computer, so 
having AV at all is just so other people don't get uppity with me about not 
having it.

What I like about Defender (and MSSE before it) is that it works quietly in the 
background and doesn't pester me.  If it doesn't work well, at least it's not 
being noisy about it.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/19/2017 10:08:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

Defender is the best AV system out there.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:30:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed
The pathetic way Windows Defender works, I doubt it takes a lot of bandwidth.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:13 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed

It's definitely better than it was for awhile, but we've had a couple customers 
complaining that "their connection never works" in the last couple weeks, and 
when I checked it was the same old thing with a couple dozen TCP connections to 
13.x.x.x IP addresses completely killing the connection. At least one of them 
said there was an update going, but it could very well be something like 
Windows Defender.

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think they changed something.  Windows 10 updates used to cripple my home 
connection, but lately I haven't noticed them.

I have recently had an incident where some Windows system process is 
downloading something from a Microsoft IP address and that download crippled 
me.  Settings -> Updates & Security didn't indicate any update was downloading. 
 I think I eventually determined it to be the Windows Defender that was doing 
the downloading, but I don't remember how I concluded that.




-- Original Message --
From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 3/16/2017 10:20:30 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 update speed
So it seems like when a customer wants to update a windows 10 machine, it will 
gladly and readily take all available bandwidth (and more).  I'm updating 2 
brand new windows 10 machines in the NOC, plugged into gigabit Ethernet, and 
they're downloading the windows updates at <2mb/s.  I would have expected them 
to just fly.

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Josh Luthman]

Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul
would get one these days.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II
> first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.
>
> I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so
> it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old
> Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick
> for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I
> can find them because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy
> power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC
> and our UPS transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down
> to 80-85VAC. Has happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down
> because the batteries ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The
> linear brick lets you see the voltage situation. Problem is, they're
> getting pretty hard to find now.
>
> On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
>> monitors / powers from?
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to
>> monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery
>> array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of
>> similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2
>> different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <%28772%29%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Chuck McCown]

Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul would 
get one these days.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup  
wrote:

  Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II first. 
The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.

  I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so it's 
safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old Base-I's from 
site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick for utility 
monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I can find them 
because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy power, or those 
3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC and our UPS 
transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down to 80-85VAC. Has 
happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down because the batteries 
ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The linear brick lets you see 
the voltage situation. Problem is, they're getting pretty hard to find now.


  On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2. 

Josh

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it 
monitors / powers from?



  We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to 
monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery array. 
Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of similar 48v 
wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different voltages 
and I don’t need to buy anything 😊



  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800  

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Josh Luthman]

Of course.  You'll also be able to monitor both at the same time.

Conversely an RB750 will only report the highest of the two voltages.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>
> Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul
> would get one these days.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II
>> first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.
>>
>> I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so
>> it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old
>> Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick
>> for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I
>> can find them because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy
>> power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC
>> and our UPS transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down
>> to 80-85VAC. Has happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down
>> because the batteries ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The
>> linear brick lets you see the voltage situation. Problem is, they're
>> getting pretty hard to find now.
>>
>> On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>
>>> Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
>>> monitors / powers from?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart
>>> to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery
>>> array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of
>>> similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2
>>> different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul McCall, President
>>>
>>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>>
>>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>>
>>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>>
>>> 772-564-6800 <%28772%29%20564-6800>
>>>
>>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>>
>>> www.pdmnet.com
>>>
>>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Chuck McCown]

I am talking about pwr1 and pwr2.  For some reason I thought they had to both 
be the same.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

Of course.  You'll also be able to monitor both at the same time. 

Conversely an RB750 will only report the highest of the two voltages.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

  Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul 
would get one these days.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II first. 
The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.

I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so 
it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old Base-I's 
from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick for utility 
monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I can find them 
because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy power, or those 
3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC and our UPS 
transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down to 80-85VAC. Has 
happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down because the batteries 
ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The linear brick lets you see 
the voltage situation. Problem is, they're getting pretty hard to find now.


On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

  Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2. 

  Josh

  On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it 
monitors / powers from?



We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart 
to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery array. 
Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of similar 48v 
wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different voltages 
and I don’t need to buy anything 😊



Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

[AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Darin Steffl]

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I
see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v
battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route
with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with
the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V
will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

You can adjust the float voltage to whatever is optimal for your battery 
by turning a screw on the AD155.



-- Original Message --
From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: "memb...@wispa.org" ; "af@afmug.com" 


Sent: 3/20/2017 1:11:22 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and 
I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 
12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage 
is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're 
ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried 
if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Adam Moffett]

I think it draws current from whichever port has the higher voltage.
If you did +24 and -48 I bet that would be bad.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:09:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

I am talking about pwr1 and pwr2.  For some reason I thought they had 
to both be the same.


From:Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:08 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

Of course.  You'll also be able to monitor both at the same time.

Conversely an RB750 will only report the highest of the two voltages.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?

From:Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way 
Paul would get one these days.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup 
 wrote:
Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II 
first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.


I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC 
so it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of 
old Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the 
wall brick for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe 
power supplies if I can find them because they're linear. We're at 
many towers with crappy power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a 
phase and we end up with <100VAC and our UPS transfers to battery. 
Most switching bricks will operate down to 80-85VAC. Has happened 
more times that I can remember. Site goes down because the batteries 
ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The linear brick 
lets you see the voltage situation. Problem is, they're getting 
pretty hard to find now.


On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  
wrote:
Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs 
that it monitors / powers from?




We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall 
wart to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 
24v battery array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I 
need to buy a bunch of similar 48v wall warts or whether the 
SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different voltages and I don’t need 
to buy anything 😊




Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

You don’t need two power supplies.  Just pick the  power supply that has enough 
current to both power the radios and supply a healthy recharge current right 
after a power outage to the radios.  
From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:11 AM
To: memb...@wispa.org ; af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Hello all, 

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I see 
two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route with 
the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the battery 
taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will wreck the 
battery or not.


Thanks all


-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Justin Wilson]

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an amperage 
issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an omni run 
into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too much 
amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I see 
> two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
> 
> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
> batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
> 
> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
> battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
> 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
> 
> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
> with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
> battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
> wreck the battery or not.
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> -- 
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com 
> 507-634-WiFi
>   Like us on Facebook 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Mathew Howard]

Yup, it works fine to mix... pwr1 and pwr2 definitely don't both have to be
the same. We typically have 24v on one and 48v on the other, on sites where
we're using both.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I am talking about pwr1 and pwr2.  For some reason I thought they had to
> both be the same.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>
> Of course.  You'll also be able to monitor both at the same time.
>
> Conversely an RB750 will only report the highest of the two voltages.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>>
>> Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul
>> would get one these days.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>>
>>> Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II
>>> first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.
>>>
>>> I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so
>>> it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old
>>> Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick
>>> for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I
>>> can find them because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy
>>> power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC
>>> and our UPS transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down
>>> to 80-85VAC. Has happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down
>>> because the batteries ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The
>>> linear brick lets you see the voltage situation. Problem is, they're
>>> getting pretty hard to find now.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>>
 Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
 monitors / powers from?



 We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart
 to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v
 battery array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a
 bunch of similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with
 the 2 different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊



 Paul McCall, President

 PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

 658 Old Dixie Highway

 Vero Beach, FL 32962

 772-564-6800 <%28772%29%20564-6800>

 pa...@pdmnet.net

 www.pdmnet.com

 www.floridabroadband.com





>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.  

From: Justin Wilson 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Cc: memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an amperage 
issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an omni run 
into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too much 
amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

  On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Hello all, 

  We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I see 
two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

  The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


  The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


  My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
wreck the battery or not.


  Thanks all


  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

Qualifying info:  If you don't want/need any features like temperature 
compensation or low voltage disconnect, then all you need is a power 
supply that can be adjusted to your float voltage, then you wire the 
batteries and load in parallel.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:20:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

You don’t need two power supplies.  Just pick the  power supply that 
has enough current to both power the radios and supply a healthy 
recharge current right after a power outage to the radios.




From:Darin Steffl
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:11 AM
To:memb...@wispa.org ; af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and 
I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 
12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage 
is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're 
ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried 
if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Darin Steffl]

Justin,

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an omni,
and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power supply,
no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.

I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? Spec
sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
> amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and
> an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way
> too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I
> see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
>
> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v
> batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
>
> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one
> 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is
> only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
>
> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route
> with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with
> the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V
> will wreck the battery or not.
>
> Thanks all
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>
>
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have an 
issue with too much current.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

From:Justin Wilson
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Cc:memb...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul 
and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, 
just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and 
I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with 
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're 
ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried 
if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are running a 12 
volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the power quits, and your 
radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not have as much time as if you were 
running a 24 volt system and the radios quit working at 11 volts.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Cc: memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have an issue 
with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

  I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.  

  From: Justin Wilson 
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Cc: memb...@wispa.org 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

  Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an amperage 
issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an omni run 
into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too much 
amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

Hello all, 

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I 
see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all


-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Justin Wilson]

Our site was a backhaul, an rb750, and an Omni.  We had tons of issues with it 
until we upgraded to 24volt.  Under load it would draw more amperage and things 
would suffer.   Had another similar site and it’s issues went away after an 
upgrade to 24 volt. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> Justin,
> 
> Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an omni, 
> and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power supply, 
> no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.
> 
> I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? Spec 
> sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  > wrote:
> Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an amperage 
> issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an omni 
> run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too much 
> amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> 
>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I see 
>> two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
>> 
>> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
>> batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
>> 
>> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
>> battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
>> 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
>> 
>> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
>> with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
>> battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
>> wreck the battery or not.
>> 
>> Thanks all
>> 
>> -- 
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com 
>> 507-634-WiFi
>>   Like us on Facebook 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com 
> 507-634-WiFi
>   Like us on Facebook 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

70 Watts at 12V is around 6 amp.
155 Watts at 12v is almost 13 amps.

You'll need to make sure your wire gauge is large enough, but I think 
you'd only need 12 gauge for that.



-- Original Message --
From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Cc: "memb...@wispa.org" 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:25:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


Justin,

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an 
omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt 
power supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.


I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? 
Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage 
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops 
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with 
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? 
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most 
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 







--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are 
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the power 
quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not have as 
much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the radios quit 
working at 11 volts.


From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Cc:memb...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have an 
issue with too much current.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

From:Justin Wilson
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Cc:memb...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage 
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops 
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with 
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? 
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most 
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

And unless  you have 12 volt only loads, the cost is about the same for a 24 
volt site.  

From: Justin Wilson 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Our site was a backhaul, an rb750, and an Omni.  We had tons of issues with it 
until we upgraded to 24volt.  Under load it would draw more amperage and things 
would suffer.   Had another similar site and it’s issues went away after an 
upgrade to 24 volt.  

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

  On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Justin, 

  Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an omni, 
and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power supply, no? 
Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.

  I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? Spec 
sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.

  On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an amperage 
issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an omni run 
into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too much 
amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


  On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Hello all, 

  We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I 
see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

  The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


  The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 
12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


  My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
wreck the battery or not.


  Thanks all


  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook






  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

I've never actually set up a 12V site because there always seemed to end 
up being other practical concerns, but I was always tempted by the idea 
that if the power was out for a long time I could drive up and connect 
jumper cables from my car and use the car as a standby generator.  A car 
can idle for a couple of days on a full tank of gas.




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:35:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

And unless  you have 12 volt only loads, the cost is about the same for 
a 24 volt site.


From:Justin Wilson
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:33 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Our site was a backhaul, an rb750, and an Omni.  We had tons of issues 
with it until we upgraded to 24volt.  Under load it would draw more 
amperage and things would suffer.   Had another similar site and it’s 
issues went away after an upgrade to 24 volt.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:


Justin,

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an 
omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt 
power supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.


I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? 
Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  
wrote:
Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage 
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops 
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with 
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? 
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most 
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 







--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] All WISPAmerica 2017 Interviews

[Chris Wright]

Thanks for doing this, Mike! We only have enough wiggle room in our schedule to 
come out once a year in Vegas so these videos do well to keep people like me in 
the loop. ☺

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 7:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] All WISPAmerica 2017 Interviews

We think this is all of our 2017 interviews. If we interviewed you and you're 
not in this playlist, let us know. Hopefully it was just missed and not lost.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL56ppmTc2o705Up2oy5AGDISo2J0Ap1dN


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Robert]

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
update.

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

You can still do that.  Just charge one 12 batt at a time.  Probably fully 
charge one in a half hour then switch.  Come back the next day.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

I've never actually set up a 12V site because there always seemed to end up 
being other practical concerns, but I was always tempted by the idea that if 
the power was out for a long time I could drive up and connect jumper cables 
from my car and use the car as a standby generator.  A car can idle for a 
couple of days on a full tank of gas. 



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:35:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

  And unless  you have 12 volt only loads, the cost is about the same for a 24 
volt site.  

  From: Justin Wilson 
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

  Our site was a backhaul, an rb750, and an Omni.  We had tons of issues with 
it until we upgraded to 24volt.  Under load it would draw more amperage and 
things would suffer.   Had another similar site and it’s issues went away after 
an upgrade to 24 volt.  

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

Justin, 

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an omni, 
and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power supply, no? 
Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.

I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? Spec 
sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and an 
omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way too 
much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:

Hello all, 

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and 
I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 
12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with 
the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all


-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook






-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[D. Ryan Spott]

I have 2 differ t voltages on mine. 

On a 24VDC site I have Up to 31VDC on one input. It powers the unit and I 
monitor the sites status with it. 

Power supply 2 is a wall watt plugged into my remote genset. When the genset 
comes on I get 24.3VDC on that power input. This tells me the genset is 
running. 

ryan

-- 
D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc
broadband | telco | colo | communities
PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294
425-939-0047

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 05:24, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it 
> monitors / powers from?
>  
> We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart to 
> monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v battery array. 
> Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a bunch of similar 
> 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with the 2 different 
> voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800 
> pa...@pdmnet.net
> www.pdmnet.com
> www.floridabroadband.com
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Jaime Solorza]

Solar panel system is cheap enough to deploy...It is easy to design and
install...Just saying...

On Mar 20, 2017 11:48 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> You can still do that.  Just charge one 12 batt at a time.  Probably fully
> charge one in a half hour then switch.  Come back the next day.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:40 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site
>
> I've never actually set up a 12V site because there always seemed to end
> up being other practical concerns, but I was always tempted by the idea
> that if the power was out for a long time I could drive up and connect
> jumper cables from my car and use the car as a standby generator.  A car
> can idle for a couple of days on a full tank of gas.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/20/2017 1:35:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site
>
>
> And unless  you have 12 volt only loads, the cost is about the same for a
> 24 volt site.
>
> *From:* Justin Wilson
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site
>
> Our site was a backhaul, an rb750, and an Omni.  We had tons of issues
> with it until we upgraded to 24volt.  Under load it would draw more
> amperage and things would suffer.   Had another similar site and it’s
> issues went away after an upgrade to 24 volt.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> Justin,
>
> Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an
> omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power
> supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.
>
> I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? Spec
> sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
>> amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and
>> an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way
>> too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I
>> see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
>>
>> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v
>> batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
>>
>> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one
>> 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is
>> only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
>>
>> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route
>> with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with
>> the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V
>> will wreck the battery or not.
>>
>> Thanks all
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>>  Like us on Facebook
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Bill Prince]

As stated before, don't skimp on voltage. Lower voltage setups will 
increase the current required for a given wattage proportionally. Lower 
volts means you need bigger wires, and the drain on the batteries goes 
up as well.


Your 70 watts is almost 6 amps at 12 volts, but only 3 amps at 24 volts, 
and only 1.5 amps at 48 volts. The higher voltage system is almost 
always the better choice.



bp


On 3/20/2017 10:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Justin,

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an 
omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt 
power supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.


I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though? 
Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson > wrote:


Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week. 
Voltage is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the

headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small
MicroPops and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with
Two 12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A
with one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5
amps and voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the
AD-155A route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah
battery? We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but
I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook






--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Paul Stewart]

I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power you 
sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage more 
people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” - in my 
opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power artificially high 
as well … real problem here….



> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
> 
> On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
>> use it anytime of day.
>> 
>> *From:* Rory Conaway
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>> 
>> 
>> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
>> owners.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
>> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
>> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
>> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
>> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
>> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
>> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
>> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
>> per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:*Rory Conaway
>> 
>> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>> 
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>> 
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
>> it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
>> definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
>> seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
>> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
>> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
>> best values out there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
>> 
>> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
>> 
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>> 
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
>> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
>> 
>> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
>> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
>> have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
>> update.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Bill Prince]

Not here.

In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the 
site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at 
wholesale prices (when generating).


bp


On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power you 
sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage more 
people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” - in my 
opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power artificially high 
as well … real problem here….




On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
update.

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Robert]

And those batteries would be toast at 11V...   But more importantly pick 
a charger that will recharge your batteries in a reasonable time when 
power returns.   More than once we have seen power problems return in 
bad weather and if your system takes two weeks to recharge the batteries 
fully you are going to sweat it if power is bouncing up and down while 
the lines are being repaired...


On 3/20/17 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the
power quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not
have as much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the
radios quit working at 11 volts.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have
an issue with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery?
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Chuck McCown]

We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are a net 
producer you lose all  your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

Not here.

In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the
site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
wholesale prices (when generating).

bp


On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power 
you sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage 
more people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” - 
in my opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power 
artificially high as well … real problem here….





On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
update.

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, I would go 10% of the capacity of the batts being the additional 
current your PS needs to be able to make over and above the load current. 
Figure out all the loads and get something that can do at least twice the 
current you need minimum.


Say you have 70 watts of  load.  24 volt system will be about 3 amps of 
load.
On a grid powered system I want at least two days of battery.  So 3*48=144 
amp hours.
I will want to charge them at 15 amps.  I would want a 20 amp power supply 
minimum.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

And those batteries would be toast at 11V...   But more importantly pick
a charger that will recharge your batteries in a reasonable time when
power returns.   More than once we have seen power problems return in
bad weather and if your system takes two weeks to recharge the batteries
fully you are going to sweat it if power is bouncing up and down while
the lines are being repaired...

On 3/20/17 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the
power quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not
have as much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the
radios quit working at 11 volts.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have
an issue with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery?
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

[AFMUG] PMP450 reregs at site synced by CTMExpress8

[Colin Stanners]

I believe I have figured out the solution to a nagging, nonsensical problem.

If you see many Canopy PMP450 clients, including those with great
signal/SNR, disconnecting / re-registering at a site where the APs are
synced by a CTMExpress8, try rebooting that sync device. Even if its stats
shown in the APs look fine.

These are usually very reliable, I'm guessing there may be GPS
constellation changes affecting central Canada where we are located.

Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages

[Josh Luthman]

It works from like 6-56 volts.  -48 is a ways away from that...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I think it draws current from whichever port has the higher voltage.
> If you did +24 and -48 I bet that would be bad.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/20/2017 1:09:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>
> I am talking about pwr1 and pwr2.  For some reason I thought they had to
> both be the same.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>
> Of course.  You'll also be able to monitor both at the same time.
>
> Conversely an RB750 will only report the highest of the two voltages.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Can you mix 24 and 48 volts on the same unit?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 10:58 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sitemonitor question - different voltages
>>
>> Base1 has been gone for like 3-4 years or something...there's no way Paul
>> would get one these days.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>>
>>> Be careful connecting +48VDC to a SiteMonitor. Verify it's a Base-II
>>> first. The old Base-I's are limited to 30 or 32VDC on both inputs.
>>>
>>> I typically connect the pwr1 input to my main rail, usually 24-28VDC so
>>> it's safe for Base-I's or Base-II's. I've been recycling a lot of old
>>> Base-I's from site rebuilds the last year or so. Pwr2 gets the wall brick
>>> for utility monitoring. I try to dig out old SyncPipe power supplies if I
>>> can find them because they're linear. We're at many towers with crappy
>>> power, or those 3-phase sites that lose a phase and we end up with <100VAC
>>> and our UPS transfers to battery. Most switching bricks will operate down
>>> to 80-85VAC. Has happened more times that I can remember. Site goes down
>>> because the batteries ran down, yet we never got a utility power alarm. The
>>> linear brick lets you see the voltage situation. Problem is, they're
>>> getting pretty hard to find now.
>>>
>>> On 3/20/2017 7:51 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes - it can accept multiple voltages on PWR1 and PWR2.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>>
 Can the sitemonitor have two different voltages on the 2 inputs that it
 monitors / powers from?



 We have a lot of them setup in the field with a 110vac – 24v wall wart
 to monitor commercial power.  And, the 2nd input is off the 24v
 battery array. Batteries are all 48v now, so wondering if I need to buy a
 bunch of similar 48v wall warts or whether the SiteMonitor can deal with
 the 2 different voltages and I don’t need to buy anything 😊



 Paul McCall, President

 PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

 658 Old Dixie Highway

 Vero Beach, FL 32962

 772-564-6800 <%28772%29%20564-6800>

 pa...@pdmnet.net

 www.pdmnet.com

 www.floridabroadband.com





>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Josh Luthman]

Personally I do a 24v site.  Two 12v 12a batteries.  Using WS-12-250-DC.
The Netonix will actually convert from 24v to ~50v inside and then deliver
24v and 48v from that.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I
> see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
>
> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v
> batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
>
> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one
> 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is
> only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
>
> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route
> with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with
> the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V
> will wreck the battery or not.
>
> Thanks all
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Robert]

That's what I'm talking about, except we like twice the off grid 
capacity...   When the shit hits the fan, don't like to be adding 
recharging duty to the recovery cycle...   So we look for 24V PS's that 
can do at least 28 amps...


On 3/20/17 8:08 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I would go 10% of the capacity of the batts being the additional
current your PS needs to be able to make over and above the load
current. Figure out all the loads and get something that can do at least
twice the current you need minimum.

Say you have 70 watts of  load.  24 volt system will be about 3 amps of
load.
On a grid powered system I want at least two days of battery.  So
3*48=144 amp hours.
I will want to charge them at 15 amps.  I would want a 20 amp power
supply minimum.

-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

And those batteries would be toast at 11V...   But more importantly pick
a charger that will recharge your batteries in a reasonable time when
power returns.   More than once we have seen power problems return in
bad weather and if your system takes two weeks to recharge the batteries
fully you are going to sweat it if power is bouncing up and down while
the lines are being repaired...

On 3/20/17 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the
power quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not
have as much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the
radios quit working at 11 volts.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have
an issue with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery?
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

Many batts don't want you to exceed C/10 or a 10 hour charge.  But that 
varies by chemistry and manufacturer.  Always a good thing to check at 
design time.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

That's what I'm talking about, except we like twice the off grid
capacity...   When the shit hits the fan, don't like to be adding
recharging duty to the recovery cycle...   So we look for 24V PS's that
can do at least 28 amps...

On 3/20/17 8:08 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I would go 10% of the capacity of the batts being the additional
current your PS needs to be able to make over and above the load
current. Figure out all the loads and get something that can do at least
twice the current you need minimum.

Say you have 70 watts of  load.  24 volt system will be about 3 amps of
load.
On a grid powered system I want at least two days of battery.  So
3*48=144 amp hours.
I will want to charge them at 15 amps.  I would want a 20 amp power
supply minimum.

-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

And those batteries would be toast at 11V...   But more importantly pick
a charger that will recharge your batteries in a reasonable time when
power returns.   More than once we have seen power problems return in
bad weather and if your system takes two weeks to recharge the batteries
fully you are going to sweat it if power is bouncing up and down while
the lines are being repaired...

On 3/20/17 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the
power quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not
have as much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the
radios quit working at 11 volts.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have
an issue with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery?
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Bill Prince]

That's why I was suggesting that higher voltage is almost always 
desirable. Getting the amperage down low enough, and you can even exceed 
C/20 or better. The lower amperage/longer hour draw means you can often 
squeeze more out of the batteries.



bp


On 3/20/2017 11:23 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Many batts don't want you to exceed C/10 or a 10 hour charge.  But 
that varies by chemistry and manufacturer.  Always a good thing to 
check at design time.


-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

That's what I'm talking about, except we like twice the off grid
capacity...   When the shit hits the fan, don't like to be adding
recharging duty to the recovery cycle...   So we look for 24V PS's that
can do at least 28 amps...

On 3/20/17 8:08 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I would go 10% of the capacity of the batts being the additional
current your PS needs to be able to make over and above the load
current. Figure out all the loads and get something that can do at least
twice the current you need minimum.

Say you have 70 watts of  load.  24 volt system will be about 3 amps of
load.
On a grid powered system I want at least two days of battery. So
3*48=144 amp hours.
I will want to charge them at 15 amps.  I would want a 20 amp power
supply minimum.

-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

And those batteries would be toast at 11V...   But more importantly pick
a charger that will recharge your batteries in a reasonable time when
power returns.   More than once we have seen power problems return in
bad weather and if your system takes two weeks to recharge the batteries
fully you are going to sweat it if power is bouncing up and down while
the lines are being repaired...

On 3/20/17 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Good point.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


The issues is not current as much a voltage headroom.  If you are
running a 12 volt system which quickly drops to 12 volts when the
power quits, and your radios quit working at 11 volts, you will not
have as much time as if you were running a 24 volt system and the
radios quit working at 11 volts.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

If you had a couple of < 10 watt devices, I don't see how you'd have
an issue with too much current.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: memb...@wispa.org
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:23:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site


I would never build a 12 volt site if there was any way to avoid it.

*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage
is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery?
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[SmarterBroadband]

We managed to get these two clauses into a local commercial lease back in
2010.

 



 



 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

 

Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider to
include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?

 

Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you intend to
use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to successfully apply
with those frequencies.

 

We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting the
issue with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have some
references of WISPs who also have these protections.

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net  

www.pdmnet.com  

www.floridabroadband.com  

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] DC Power Site

[Darin Steffl]

So it looks like we will go with the 24v system (AD-155B) for now.

Does the voltage adjustment screw only change the Load voltage or also the
battery charge voltage?

What happens if the batteries run completely dead? When AC power is
restored, will the power supply still boot up properly and provide DC power
for our load and start charging the dead battery?

What do you all recommend for fuses and breakers as well for a microsite
like this? Any pics and/or part numbers would be greatly appreciated. I've
found plenty of info on the DIN rail solutions but not seen any pics with
the AD-155 yet.

Thank you all!

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Hulsebus 
wrote:

> I discussed this last week with a power engineer.
>
> We plan to use 4 Trojan T105 batteries in series to create a 24V string.
>
> With 280 Ah batteries they said we would need a 40 amp charging circuit if
> I want to run from DC while batteries are also being charged.  I use 8 amps
> of continuous power.
>
> Here are the two devices he spec'd for the project.
>
> DLS-27-40/IQ4 Iota charger
>
> RSD-300B-24 Meanwell 24V DC output 11.3A
>
> The power guy said the biggest mistake made is not sizing the charge
> device large enough. Sure we only need 8 amps, but the batteries may
> consume 30 or more during a bulk charge.
>
> Dave Hulsebus
>
> On 3/20/2017 2:10 PM, Scott Lambert wrote:
>
> We've had a lot of failures with the AD-155B. That could be something
> we're doing wrong.
>
> If you end up with a couple of AFs or some LTE gear onsite, you will want
> more than 150w. I'm leaning more toward having a 24v power supply that
> knows how to maintain batteries and running the load straight off the
> battery bank.
>
>
>
> On March 20, 2017 12:28:39 PM CDT, Josh Baird 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Just use a AD-155B or AD-155C like has been said.  Don't bother with 12V.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Justin,
>>>
>>> Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an
>>> omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power
>>> supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.
>>>
>>> I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though?
>>> Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>>
 Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
 amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul and
 an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way
 too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.

 Justin Wilson
 j...@mtin.net

 ---
 http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
 xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
 Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

 On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
 wrote:

 Hello all,

 We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and
 I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

 The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v
 batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.

 The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one
 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is
 only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.

 My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
 route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok
 with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the
 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.

 Thanks all

 --
 Darin Steffl
 Minnesota WiFi
 www.mnwifi.com
 507-634-WiFi
  Like us on Facebook
 



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darin Steffl
>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>  Like us on Facebook
>>> 
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Members mailing list
>>> memb...@wispa.org
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> ___
> Members mailing 
> listMembers@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>
> --
> Portative Technologies
> 1995 Allison Lane, Suite 100
> Corydon, IN 47112
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo]
> 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Rory Conaway]

How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they just 
added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can 
> use it anytime of day.
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car 
> owners.
>
>
>
> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than 
> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and 
> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>
>
>
> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and 
> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I 
> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
>
>
>
> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>
>
>
> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as 
> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 
> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>
>
>
> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>
>
>
> *From:*Rory Conaway
>
> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is 
> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save 
> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode 
> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the 
> best values out there.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
>
>
>
> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
>
> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this 
> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
>
> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
>
>
>
> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will 
> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S 
> will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over 
> the air update.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] DC Power Site

[Adam Moffett]

I'm 99.9% sure that load voltage and battery voltage are one and the 
same.
If you don't want the load voltage to vary then you have to add a DC/DC 
converter.  You probably don't need to.



-- Original Message --
From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: "memb...@wispa.org" ; "af@afmug.com" 


Sent: 3/20/2017 3:03:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] DC Power Site


So it looks like we will go with the 24v system (AD-155B) for now.

Does the voltage adjustment screw only change the Load voltage or also 
the battery charge voltage?


What happens if the batteries run completely dead? When AC power is 
restored, will the power supply still boot up properly and provide DC 
power for our load and start charging the dead battery?


What do you all recommend for fuses and breakers as well for a 
microsite like this? Any pics and/or part numbers would be greatly 
appreciated. I've found plenty of info on the DIN rail solutions but 
not seen any pics with the AD-155 yet.


Thank you all!

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Hulsebus 
 wrote:

I discussed this last week with a power engineer.

We plan to use 4 Trojan T105 batteries in series to create a 24V 
string.


With 280 Ah batteries they said we would need a 40 amp charging 
circuit if I want to run from DC while batteries are also being 
charged.  I use 8 amps of continuous power.


Here are the two devices he spec'd for the project.

DLS-27-40/IQ4 Iota charger

RSD-300B-24 Meanwell 24V DC output 11.3A

The power guy said the biggest mistake made is not sizing the charge 
device large enough. Sure we only need 8 amps, but the batteries may 
consume 30 or more during a bulk charge.


Dave Hulsebus


On 3/20/2017 2:10 PM, Scott Lambert wrote:
We've had a lot of failures with the AD-155B. That could be something 
we're doing wrong.


If you end up with a couple of AFs or some LTE gear onsite, you will 
want more than 150w. I'm leaning more toward having a 24v power 
supply that knows how to maintain batteries and running the load 
straight off the battery bank.




On March 20, 2017 12:28:39 PM CDT, Josh Baird  
 wrote:
Just use a AD-155B or AD-155C like has been said.  Don't bother with 
12V.


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl 
 wrote:

Justin,

Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, 
an omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 
watt power supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or 
less.


I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 
though? Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  
wrote:
Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an 
amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 
backhaul and an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  
Voltage is fine, just way too much amperage.  It’s not worth the 
headache.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
 wrote:


Hello all,

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small 
MicroPops and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA 
archives.


The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with 
Two 12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A 
with one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 
amps and voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float 
voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the 
AD-155A route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah 
battery? We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but 
I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 







--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 



___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members 







--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

___ Members mailing list 
Members@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members 



-- Portative Technologies 1995 Allison Lane, Suite 100 Corydon, IN 
47112




This emai

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Kurt Fankhauser]

130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are a net
> producer you lose all  your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild.
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> Not here.
>
> In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the
> site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
> wholesale prices (when generating).
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>> I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power
>> you sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage
>> more people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” -
>> in my opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power
>> artificially high as well … real problem here….
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>> My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
>>>
>>> On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
 My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
 use it anytime of day.

 *From:* Rory Conaway
 *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


 Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
 owners.



 Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
 what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
 the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



 Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
 Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
 doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



 Rory





 *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



 I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
 always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



 I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
 places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



 But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
 low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
 per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



 Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



 *From:*Rory Conaway

 *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

 *To:*af@afmug.com

 *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



 So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
 it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
 definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
 seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
 battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
 maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
 best values out there.



 Rory



 *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



 I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



 *From:*can...@believewireless.net

 *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

 *To:*af@afmug.com

 *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



 I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
 will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

 Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



 On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

 Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



 Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
 have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
 have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
 update.








>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Robert]

It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they just 
added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S
will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over
the air update.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Chuck McCown]

E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...

-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they 
just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.


Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of 
the

battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S
will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over
the air update.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Lewis Bergman]

For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure I'll
ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I allow
for all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220 or
something?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...
>
> On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
> > How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
> > just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
> >
> > Rory
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >
> > My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
> >
> > On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
> >> use it anytime of day.
> >>
> >> *From:* Rory Conaway
> >> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
> >> owners.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
> >> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
> >> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
> >> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
> >> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rory
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
> >> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
> >> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
> >> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
> >> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Rory Conaway
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@afmug.com
> >>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
> >> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
> >> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
> >> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
> >> the
> >> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
> >> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
> >> best values out there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rory
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@afmug.com
> >>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
> >> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
> >>
> >> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >>
> >> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
> >> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S
> >> will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over
> >> the air update.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Chuck McCown]

220/221

30 amp at least.  I think I would wire a 40 or 50 amp circuit for it.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure I'll 
ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I allow for 
all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220 or something?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...

  -Original Message-
  From: Robert
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

  It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

  On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
  > How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
  > just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
  >
  > Rory
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
  > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >
  > My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
  >
  > On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
  >> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
  >> use it anytime of day.
  >>
  >> *From:* Rory Conaway
  >> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
  >> owners.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
  >> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
  >> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
  >> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
  >> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Rory
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
  >> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
  >> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
  >> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
  >> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Rory Conaway
  >>
  >> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
  >>
  >> *To:*af@afmug.com
  >>
  >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
  >> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
  >> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
  >> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
  >> the
  >> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
  >> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
  >> best values out there.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Rory
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
  >>
  >> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
  >>
  >> *To:*af@afmug.com
  >>
  >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
  >> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
  >>
  >> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
  >>
  >> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
  >> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S
  >> will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over
  >> the air update.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Rory Conaway]

40A is what’s necessary for the 8 hour chargers.  Want to charge your 100kWh 
Tesla in a few hours, spend about $10K with the electric company and get them 
to pull another 100A to your house at 480v I think.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

220/221

30 amp at least.  I think I would wire a 40 or 50 amp circuit for it.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure I'll 
ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I allow for 
all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220 or something?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
> How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
> just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
>
> Rory
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
>
> On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
>> use it anytime of day.
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
>> owners.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
>> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
>> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
>> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
>> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
>> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
>> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
>> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
>> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Rory Conaway
>>
>> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
>> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
>> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
>> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
>> the
>> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
>> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
>> best values out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
>>
>> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
>> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
>>
>> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown 
>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
>>
>>
>>
>> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
>> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S
>> will have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over
>> the air update.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Chuck McCown]

Yep, but there is a free one just down the road from me.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

40A is what’s necessary for the 8 hour chargers.  Want to charge your 100kWh 
Tesla in a few hours, spend about $10K with the electric company and get them 
to pull another 100A to your house at 480v I think.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

220/221

 

30 amp at least.  I think I would wire a 40 or 50 amp circuit for it.  

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:29 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

 

For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure I'll 
ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I allow for 
all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220 or something?

 

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...

  -Original Message-
  From: Robert
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

  It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

  On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
  > How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
  > just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
  >
  > Rory
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
  > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >
  > My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
  >
  > On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
  >> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
  >> use it anytime of day.
  >>
  >> *From:* Rory Conaway
  >> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
  >> owners.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
  >> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
  >> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
  >> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
  >> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Rory
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
  >> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
  >> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
  >> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
  >> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Rory Conaway
  >>
  >> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
  >>
  >> *To:*af@afmug.com
  >>
  >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
  >> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
  >> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
  >> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
  >> the
  >> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
  >> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
  >> best values out there.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Rory
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
  >> *To:* af@afmug.com
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
  >>
  >> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
  >>
  >> *To:*af@afmug.com
  >>
  >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
  >> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
  >>
  >> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
  >>
  >> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
  >> have u

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Rory Conaway]

Not any more for new Tesla owners….

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

Yep, but there is a free one just down the road from me.

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

40A is what’s necessary for the 8 hour chargers.  Want to charge your 100kWh 
Tesla in a few hours, spend about $10K with the electric company and get them 
to pull another 100A to your house at 480v I think.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

220/221

30 amp at least.  I think I would wire a 40 or 50 amp circuit for it.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure I'll 
ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I allow for 
all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220 or something?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...

On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
> How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
> just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
>
> Rory
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
>
> On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
>> use it anytime of day.
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
>> owners.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
>> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
>> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
>> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
>> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
>> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
>> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
>> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
>> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Rory Conaway
>>
>> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
>> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
>> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
>> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
>> the
>> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
>> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
>> best values out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
>>
>> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
>> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
>>
>> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown 
>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting note from Tesla this mor

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Jason McKemie]

I thought you only had to pay if you bought the model 3.

On Monday, March 20, 2017, Rory Conaway  wrote:

> Not any more for new Tesla owners….
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 2:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> Yep, but there is a free one just down the road from me.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:37 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> 40A is what’s necessary for the 8 hour chargers.  Want to charge your
> 100kWh Tesla in a few hours, spend about $10K with the electric company and
> get them to pull another 100A to your house at 480v I think.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 2:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> 220/221
>
>
>
> 30 amp at least.  I think I would wire a 40 or 50 amp circuit for it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:29 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> For you guys with your fancy electric cars. I don't have one, Not sure
> I'll ever get one. But I am building a new house and want to make sure I
> allow for all the wild things that may take place one day. Is it just a 220
> or something?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Chuck McCown  > wrote:
>
> E=MC^2 I think probably has a tad more energy than just the M...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 2:33 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> It was a joke about the "Solar System"   and as  such is a birthright...
>
> On 3/20/17 9:06 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
> > How much do you get paid for that.  In Phoenix, it's pretty low and they
> > just added a $50 per month charge to connect to the grid.
> >
> > Rory
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] On Behalf Of
> Robert
> > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:46 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >
> > My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
> >
> > On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
> >> use it anytime of day.
> >>
> >> *From:* Rory Conaway
> >> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
> >> owners.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
> >> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
> >> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
> >> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
> >> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rory
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of
> *Chuck McCown
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
> >> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
> >> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
> >> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
> >> cents per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Rory Conaway
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@afmug.com 
> >>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
> >> that it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
> >> power.  I definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode
> >> but we are seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of
> >> the
> >> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
> >> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
> >> best values out there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rory
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of
> *Chuck McCown
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
> >> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
> 
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@afmug.com 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] FW: Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[Dave]

We are in the process of this now with a Federal site.. they make it 
real easy to be the ONE/NEO :)
Even the City Traffic has to move because they did not word their 
contract correctly and since they are considered public safety we are 
moving them to 4.9.



On 03/20/2017 07:20 AM, Paul McCall wrote:


BUMP 😊

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 4:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider 
to include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?


Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you 
intend to use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to 
successfully apply with those frequencies.


We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting 
the issue with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have 
some references of WISPs who also have these protections.


Thanks!

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 



--

[AFMUG] Ceragon

[Sterling Jacobson]

When I call them, their system doesn't do anything when I try and select 2 for 
support.

When I email their RMA they tell me to email support and when I email support 
no one responds.

And I still have the password bug where I KNOW I put in the right password for 
more than one existing account and it doesn't let me log in to the unit.

Anyone know an actual person at Ceragon that can just talk to me?

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] DC Power Site

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, the load voltage and battery voltage are always the same on the
AD-155... I have never yet run into anything that I'd want to put on a
tower that had an issue with the voltage varying a bit, pretty much
everything this is happy until you get above 28 volts or so.

My favorite power supply for micropops is the Meanwell DRC-100B... I just
wish they made a 48v version.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm 99.9% sure that load voltage and battery voltage are one and the same.
> If you don't want the load voltage to vary then you have to add a DC/DC
> converter.  You probably don't need to.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Darin Steffl" 
> To: "memb...@wispa.org" ; "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 3/20/2017 3:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] DC Power Site
>
> So it looks like we will go with the 24v system (AD-155B) for now.
>
> Does the voltage adjustment screw only change the Load voltage or also the
> battery charge voltage?
>
> What happens if the batteries run completely dead? When AC power is
> restored, will the power supply still boot up properly and provide DC power
> for our load and start charging the dead battery?
>
> What do you all recommend for fuses and breakers as well for a microsite
> like this? Any pics and/or part numbers would be greatly appreciated. I've
> found plenty of info on the DIN rail solutions but not seen any pics with
> the AD-155 yet.
>
> Thank you all!
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Hulsebus 
> wrote:
>
>> I discussed this last week with a power engineer.
>>
>> We plan to use 4 Trojan T105 batteries in series to create a 24V string.
>>
>> With 280 Ah batteries they said we would need a 40 amp charging circuit
>> if I want to run from DC while batteries are also being charged.  I use 8
>> amps of continuous power.
>>
>> Here are the two devices he spec'd for the project.
>>
>> DLS-27-40/IQ4 Iota charger
>>
>> RSD-300B-24 Meanwell 24V DC output 11.3A
>>
>> The power guy said the biggest mistake made is not sizing the charge
>> device large enough. Sure we only need 8 amps, but the batteries may
>> consume 30 or more during a bulk charge.
>>
>> Dave Hulsebus
>>
>> On 3/20/2017 2:10 PM, Scott Lambert wrote:
>>
>> We've had a lot of failures with the AD-155B. That could be something
>> we're doing wrong.
>>
>> If you end up with a couple of AFs or some LTE gear onsite, you will want
>> more than 150w. I'm leaning more toward having a 24v power supply that
>> knows how to maintain batteries and running the load straight off the
>> battery bank.
>>
>>
>>
>> On March 20, 2017 12:28:39 PM CDT, Josh Baird 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Just use a AD-155B or AD-155C like has been said.  Don't bother with 12V.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Justin,

 Our planned load for this site is only 70 watts for two backhauls, an
 omni, and netonix. This should be well within range of the 155 watt power
 supply, no? Our ethernet runs are also only 30 feet or less.

 I also don't see that the voltage is adjustable on the AD-155 though?
 Spec sheet doesn't mention it or have a picture of that.

 On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> Don’t skimp by going with the lower voltage.  You will run into an
> amperage issues pretty quickly.  Seen a 12-13 volt site with 1 backhaul 
> and
> an omni run into amperage issues within a week.  Voltage is fine, just way
> too much amperage.  It’s not worth the headache.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:11 PM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and
> I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
>
> The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two
> 12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.
>
> The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with
> one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
> voltage
> is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.
>
> My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A
> route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok
> with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the
> 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.
>
> Thanks all
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>
>
>


 --
 Darin Steffl
 Minnesota WiFi
 www.m

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Mathew Howard]

You drive more than 130mph often?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> 130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are a net
>> producer you lose all  your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>> Not here.
>>
>> In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the
>> site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
>> wholesale prices (when generating).
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power
>>> you sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage
>>> more people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” -
>>> in my opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power
>>> artificially high as well … real problem here….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:

 My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

 On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
> use it anytime of day.
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
> owners.
>
>
>
> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>
>
>
> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.
>
>
>
> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>
>
>
> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
> cents
> per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>
>
>
> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>
>
>
> *From:*Rory Conaway
>
> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
> that
> it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.
> I
> definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
> seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost
> no
> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
> best values out there.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...
>
>
>
> *From:*can...@believewireless.net
>
> *Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
>
>
> I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
> will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.
>
> Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
>
> Interesting note from Tesla this morning:
>
>
>
> Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
> have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
> have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
> update.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Mike Hammett]

Not often enough... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 


You drive more than 130mph often? 



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Kurt Fankhauser < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol 




On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 


We don't get monetary credit. Just kWh credit and if you are a net producer you 
lose all your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild. 

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 

Not here. 

In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the 
site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at 
wholesale prices (when generating). 

bp 
 

On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote: 




I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power you 
sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage more 
people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” - in my 
opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power artificially high 
as well … real problem here…. 





On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote: 

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential... 

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill. So I can 
use it anytime of day. 

*From:* Rory Conaway 
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car 
owners. 



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than 
what you probably do. We probably charge 50 miles per day average and 
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh. 



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week. 
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and 
doesn’t get home until after 6:30. 



Rory 





*From:*Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 



I am getting about 1 mile per percent. I never trust that display, I 
always use battery percentage. But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway. 



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other 
places I charge. So there is no cost of energy for me. 



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh (it can go as 
low as 8 cents depending on how you do it). So $3.60/charge or 3 cents 
per mile. (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff) 



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg. So 7.4 cents per mile. 



*From:*Rory Conaway 

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM 

*To:* af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that 
it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power. I 
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are 
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the 
battery. Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no 
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the 
best values out there. 



Rory 



*From:*Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software... 



*From:* can...@believewireless.net 

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM 

*To:* af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla 



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this 
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X. 

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap? 



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 

Interesting note from Tesla this morning: 



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will 
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will 
have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air 
update. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Bill Prince]

Only need 88 MPH to activate the Flux capacitor.


bp


On 3/20/2017 3:46 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

You drive more than 130mph often?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are
a net producer you lose all  your credits each March so no
incentive to overbuild.

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

Not here.

In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid
(when the
site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
wholesale prices (when generating).

bp


On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in
Ontario, the power you sell back at something like 90
cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage more people to
generate their own power and sell it back to the “system”
- in my opinion it’s driven the price of
purchasing/consuming power artificially high as well …
real problem here….



On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity
potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

My solar system stores excess energy as credit on
the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special
program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and
more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles
per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak
during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care
is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of
*Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent. I never
trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph
everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people
pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy
for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents
per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do it).  So
$3.60/charge or 3 cents
per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw
battery, our estimate is that
it’s actually underrated or they have found other
ways to save power.  I
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on
eco mode but we are
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after
using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about
$4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s
got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Mathew Howard]

same...

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Not often enough...
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46:26 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>
> You drive more than 130mph often?
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
>
>> 130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are a net
>>> producer you lose all  your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>>
>>> Not here.
>>>
>>> In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the
>>> site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
>>> wholesale prices (when generating).
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>
 I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the
 power you sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to
 encourage more people to generate their own power and sell it back to the
 “system” - in my opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming
 power artificially high as well … real problem here….



 On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
> My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...
>
> On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
>> use it anytime of day.
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>> Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
>> owners.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
>> what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
>> the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
>> Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
>> doesn’t get home until after 6:30.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
>> always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere,
>> freeway.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power
>> other
>> places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
>> low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3
>> cents
>> per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Rory Conaway
>>
>> *Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is
>> that
>> it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save
>> power.  I
>> definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
>> seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
>> battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost
>> no
>> maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
>> best values out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla
>>
>>
>>
>> I find it interesting they can upgrade a b

Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

[Rory Conaway]

I resemble that remark.  With luck and budget, may hit 200mph for 90 miles on a 
public road within the next 18 months.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 3:46 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

You drive more than 130mph often?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
130mph top speed according to the spec sheet, Lol

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
We don't get monetary credit.  Just kWh credit and if you  are a net producer 
you lose all  your credits each March so no incentive to overbuild.

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla

Not here.

In California, grid-tied solar buys electricity from the grid (when the
site needs it) at retail prices, but sells it back to the grid at
wholesale prices (when generating).

bp


On 3/20/2017 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
I’d have to double check the exact amount but here in Ontario, the power you 
sell back at something like 90 cents Kwh … very inflated to encourage more 
people to generate their own power and sell it back to the “system” - in my 
opinion it’s driven the price of purchasing/consuming power artificially high 
as well … real problem here….


On Mar 20, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Robert 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

My solar system stores energy in the form of gravity potential...

On 3/20/17 5:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
My solar system stores excess energy as credit on the bill.  So I can
use it anytime of day.

*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 3:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla


Our rate is 5.9 cents per kWh under a special program for electric car
owners.



Most of my wife’s driving is 70mph or less and more city driving than
what you probably do.  We probably charge 50 miles per day average and
the car gets about 3.5-4m per kWh.



Our worst rate is about 10.1 cents per kWh on peak during the week.
Solar doesn’t help us in charging since the care is gone at 7:30am and
doesn’t get home until after 6:30.



Rory





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf 
Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I am getting about 1 mile per percent.  I never trust that display, I
always use battery percentage.  But I drive 80 mph everywhere, freeway.



I am solar powered at my house and other people pay for the power other
places I charge.   So there is no cost of energy for me.



But if I was paying, it would be about 12 cents per kWh  (it can go as
low as 8 cents depending on how you do  it).  So $3.60/charge or 3 cents
per mile.  (2.4 cents per mile at the lower tariff)



Hyundai was getting 34 mpg.  So 7.4 cents per mile.



*From:*Rory Conaway

*Sent:*Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:57 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



So after 2 days with the Leaf and the 30Kw battery, our estimate is that
it’s actually underrated or they have found other ways to save power.  I
definitely notice more aggressive regen control on eco mode but we are
seeing 120-125 mile on the display even after using 5-8% of the
battery.   Considering you can drive one for about $4K a year, almost no
maintenance, and about ¼ of the cost of gas, it’s got to be one of the
best values out there.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf 
Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I find it interesting they can upgrade a battery with software...



*From:*can...@believewireless.net

*Sent:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:06 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Tesla



I highly doubt people were just buying the 75 as they say. Think this
will hurt sales? They already did this to the Model X.

Or are they hoping the Model 3 will fill the gap?



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Interesting note from Tesla this morning:



Customers who still want the opportunity to own a 60 kWh Model S will
have until April 16, 2017 to place their order. Any 60 kWh Model S will
have the ability to upgrade their battery to 75 kWh via an over the air
update.

Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

[Chuck McCown]

You never know which direction the surge is coming from, many times, perhaps 
most times,  it comes from the power lines and originates in the NOC gear. 
And with a piece of CAT 5 going in and out of a surge protector, you never 
know what the surge protector is connected to.  A surge protector is 
essentially a piece of CAT 5 or a CAT 5 coupler with a few extra components. 
There really is no direction to them or a "tower side" to them.


I could  fuse all 8 wires.  And have double surge suppressors.  Or just put 
surge on one side and label it "tower".


How do you detect the direction of a nanosecond rise time pulse?  You would 
have to have an RF reflectometer on each of the 8 wires tied to some fast 
logic.   You would want sub microsecond switches that open the CAT5 and 
logic to figure out where the pulse comes from and send it where?  If it is 
a powered wire on the POE where do you want that connected to during the 
pulse?


All surge suppressors I have ever seen do things essentially the same way I 
do things.


In any event, I will post this to the group.  Perhaps there is a learning 
opportunity for me here.  Like to see if others have seen their POE blow 
when shorted.  I personally have not seen this before.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

I'm not sure what the better option is. Not clamp on the power side, isolate 
and clamp on the tower side only?


So a surge comes in, break the connection between ground and tower and only 
shunt tower side to ground.


Honestly we were extremely surprised to find these did anything on the near 
side of the unit. That came as a shock.


Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE 
blows.



On Mar 20, 2017, at 19:29, Chuck McCown  wrote:

So, what would you have a suppressor do?  Not clamp to ground?
I  have not run into POE switches that will blow if shorted.  They are 
energy limited.

What kind of switch?

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:28 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

So the problem we are running into is the suppressor fires and clamps
which shorts the power supply on the switch, which kills the switch
port.  Now I'm out both a switch port and a suppressor I'm not sure
what I've gained.

River Valley Internet
"We Never Forget You Have a Choice"
570-433-7070 x 700


On 3/20/17 6:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes, they are clamping the wire.  So think of most of our devices as 8
individual surge suppressors.  They will short the impulses to ground.
If (as is common) the impulses come in on all 8 wires at the same time,
all 8 wires are connected to ground and as a result they are also
connected to each other.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:06 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com
Subject: Question on APC Arresters

Hey Chuck...  was discussing your Ethernet arresters last night.

Is it normal operating mode for them, when they take a strike, to go
into a "short circuit" situation on both sides of the Ethernet port?

Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE 
blows.

That would be an in-correct statement or an in-correct assumption at best.

Most passive switches have some-sort of over load protection built into them. 
The question of how fast they react would be a valid one.


Matt you have to keep in mind that most equipment damage is not due to the 
'short' but due to the current flowing in the wrong direction..




Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: "Matt Hoppes" 
> Cc: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:58:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

> You never know which direction the surge is coming from, many times, perhaps
> most times,  it comes from the power lines and originates in the NOC gear.
> And with a piece of CAT 5 going in and out of a surge protector, you never
> know what the surge protector is connected to.  A surge protector is
> essentially a piece of CAT 5 or a CAT 5 coupler with a few extra components.
> There really is no direction to them or a "tower side" to them.
> 
> I could  fuse all 8 wires.  And have double surge suppressors.  Or just put
> surge on one side and label it "tower".
> 
> How do you detect the direction of a nanosecond rise time pulse?  You would
> have to have an RF reflectometer on each of the 8 wires tied to some fast
> logic.   You would want sub microsecond switches that open the CAT5 and
> logic to figure out where the pulse comes from and send it where?  If it is
> a powered wire on the POE where do you want that connected to during the
> pulse?
> 
> All surge suppressors I have ever seen do things essentially the same way I
> do things.
> 
> In any event, I will post this to the group.  Perhaps there is a learning
> opportunity for me here.  Like to see if others have seen their POE blow
> when shorted.  I personally have not seen this before.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46 PM
> To: Chuck McCown
> Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters
> 
> I'm not sure what the better option is. Not clamp on the power side, isolate
> and clamp on the tower side only?
> 
> So a surge comes in, break the connection between ground and tower and only
> shunt tower side to ground.
> 
> Honestly we were extremely surprised to find these did anything on the near
> side of the unit. That came as a shock.
> 
> Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE
> blows.
> 
>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 19:29, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> So, what would you have a suppressor do?  Not clamp to ground?
>> I  have not run into POE switches that will blow if shorted.  They are
>> energy limited.
>> What kind of switch?
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:28 PM
>> To: Chuck McCown
>> Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters
>>
>> So the problem we are running into is the suppressor fires and clamps
>> which shorts the power supply on the switch, which kills the switch
>> port.  Now I'm out both a switch port and a suppressor I'm not sure
>> what I've gained.
>>
>> River Valley Internet
>> "We Never Forget You Have a Choice"
>> 570-433-7070 x 700
>>
>>> On 3/20/17 6:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> Yes, they are clamping the wire.  So think of most of our devices as 8
>>> individual surge suppressors.  They will short the impulses to ground.
>>> If (as is common) the impulses come in on all 8 wires at the same time,
>>> all 8 wires are connected to ground and as a result they are also
>>> connected to each other.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:06 PM
>>> To: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Subject: Question on APC Arresters
>>>
>>> Hey Chuck...  was discussing your Ethernet arresters last night.
>>>
>>> Is it normal operating mode for them, when they take a strike, to go
>>> into a "short circuit" situation on both sides of the Ethernet port?

Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

[Jerry Head]

So, at the risk of sounding none-too-bright (which might be accurate in 
my case), is placing a SS on both ends of the Ethernet cable be the 
recommended course here? I.E. Switch---SS---Ethernet up the 
tower---SS--radio?

Both SS grounded to earth ground via #2 copper going up the tower?

On 3/20/2017 7:50 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE blows.

That would be an in-correct statement or an in-correct assumption at best.

Most passive switches have some-sort of over load protection built into them. 
The question of how fast they react would be a valid one.


Matt you have to keep in mind that most equipment damage is not due to the 
'short' but due to the current flowing in the wrong direction..




Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Matt Hoppes" 
Cc: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:58:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters
You never know which direction the surge is coming from, many times, perhaps
most times,  it comes from the power lines and originates in the NOC gear.
And with a piece of CAT 5 going in and out of a surge protector, you never
know what the surge protector is connected to.  A surge protector is
essentially a piece of CAT 5 or a CAT 5 coupler with a few extra components.
There really is no direction to them or a "tower side" to them.

I could  fuse all 8 wires.  And have double surge suppressors.  Or just put
surge on one side and label it "tower".

How do you detect the direction of a nanosecond rise time pulse?  You would
have to have an RF reflectometer on each of the 8 wires tied to some fast
logic.   You would want sub microsecond switches that open the CAT5 and
logic to figure out where the pulse comes from and send it where?  If it is
a powered wire on the POE where do you want that connected to during the
pulse?

All surge suppressors I have ever seen do things essentially the same way I
do things.

In any event, I will post this to the group.  Perhaps there is a learning
opportunity for me here.  Like to see if others have seen their POE blow
when shorted.  I personally have not seen this before.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

I'm not sure what the better option is. Not clamp on the power side, isolate
and clamp on the tower side only?

So a surge comes in, break the connection between ground and tower and only
shunt tower side to ground.

Honestly we were extremely surprised to find these did anything on the near
side of the unit. That came as a shock.

Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE
blows.


On Mar 20, 2017, at 19:29, Chuck McCown  wrote:

So, what would you have a suppressor do?  Not clamp to ground?
I  have not run into POE switches that will blow if shorted.  They are
energy limited.
What kind of switch?

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:28 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

So the problem we are running into is the suppressor fires and clamps
which shorts the power supply on the switch, which kills the switch
port.  Now I'm out both a switch port and a suppressor I'm not sure
what I've gained.

River Valley Internet
"We Never Forget You Have a Choice"
570-433-7070 x 700


On 3/20/17 6:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes, they are clamping the wire.  So think of most of our devices as 8
individual surge suppressors.  They will short the impulses to ground.
If (as is common) the impulses come in on all 8 wires at the same time,
all 8 wires are connected to ground and as a result they are also
connected to each other.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:06 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com
Subject: Question on APC Arresters

Hey Chuck...  was discussing your Ethernet arresters last night.

Is it normal operating mode for them, when they take a strike, to go
into a "short circuit" situation on both sides of the Ethernet port?

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[George Skorup]

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. No charge current limiting means the batteries 
will likely pull down the supply and starve the load. Also pay attention 
to the initial current spec on the batteries. Smaller ~9-20Ah batteries 
call for 2A or so. The Mean Well DR-UPS40 is capable of 40A @ 27VDC and 
limits the charging current to 2 or 2.5A I believe. It's a decent cheap 
option.


There's also the Mean Well DRC-100 A (12VDC) or B (24VDC). I wish they 
made a 48V version. 100W and 1.25A of charging current which is roughly 
2X the AD-155B. But the 155B gets you a little more power at 150W. I 
might start using the DRC-100B for new stuff since it's smaller and 
natively DIN rail mountable unlike the AD-155.


If you want fancy stuff like alarm contacts and temperature 
compensation, the Traco BCMU360 at about $170 + a Mean Well SDR240-24 or 
-48 isn't all that expensive. The BCMU is jumper selectable between 24 
and 48VDC which is nice. Regulated output. Some folks don't like that it 
does the internal DC-DC conversion. Yes, it takes a 12VDC battery and 
converts to the selected output. I have up to 40AH on a few. The 
charging current is limited to 1A.


If you want big boy stuff, buy a rectifier shelf for 500W, 1kW, 2kW, 
whatever, and 100+ Ah of batteries. You can get ICT's new 1U shelf in 
+12, +24, +48 and -48.


On 3/20/2017 12:24 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Qualifying info:  If you don't want/need any features like temperature 
compensation or low voltage disconnect, then all you need is a power 
supply that can be adjusted to your float voltage, then you wire the 
batteries and load in parallel.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/20/2017 1:20:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

You don’t need two power supplies.  Just pick the  power supply that 
has enough current to both power the radios and supply a healthy 
recharge current right after a power outage to the radios.

*From:* Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 11:11 AM
*To:* memb...@wispa.org ; af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] DC Power Site
Hello all,
We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops 
and I see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.
The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 
12v batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with 
one 12v battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and 
voltage is only 13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A 
route with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? 
We're ok with the battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most 
worried if the 13.3V will wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

[Chuck McCown]

There really is no good answer because there is no way to know where 
destructive impulses may be coming from.  Too many surge suppressors can 
interfere with the data.  I would say one on the circuit is generally good 
enough.  If it is not good enough two probably would not be good enough 
either.


Many of my customers put them on both ends.  That is OK as long as good 
grounding principles are followed.  But if you have a large difference of 
potential in the grounds, two surge protectors can actually cause problems.


-Original Message- 
From: Jerry Head

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

So, at the risk of sounding none-too-bright (which might be accurate in
my case), is placing a SS on both ends of the Ethernet cable be the
recommended course here? I.E. Switch---SS---Ethernet up the
tower---SS--radio?
Both SS grounded to earth ground via #2 copper going up the tower?

On 3/20/2017 7:50 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE 
blows.

That would be an in-correct statement or an in-correct assumption at best.

Most passive switches have some-sort of over load protection built into 
them. The question of how fast they react would be a valid one.



Matt you have to keep in mind that most equipment damage is not due to the 
'short' but due to the current flowing in the wrong direction..





Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Matt Hoppes" 
Cc: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:58:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters
You never know which direction the surge is coming from, many times, 
perhaps
most times,  it comes from the power lines and originates in the NOC 
gear.
And with a piece of CAT 5 going in and out of a surge protector, you 
never

know what the surge protector is connected to.  A surge protector is
essentially a piece of CAT 5 or a CAT 5 coupler with a few extra 
components.

There really is no direction to them or a "tower side" to them.

I could  fuse all 8 wires.  And have double surge suppressors.  Or just 
put

surge on one side and label it "tower".

How do you detect the direction of a nanosecond rise time pulse?  You 
would

have to have an RF reflectometer on each of the 8 wires tied to some fast
logic.   You would want sub microsecond switches that open the CAT5 and
logic to figure out where the pulse comes from and send it where?  If it 
is

a powered wire on the POE where do you want that connected to during the
pulse?

All surge suppressors I have ever seen do things essentially the same way 
I

do things.

In any event, I will post this to the group.  Perhaps there is a learning
opportunity for me here.  Like to see if others have seen their POE blow
when shorted.  I personally have not seen this before.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

I'm not sure what the better option is. Not clamp on the power side, 
isolate

and clamp on the tower side only?

So a surge comes in, break the connection between ground and tower and 
only

shunt tower side to ground.

Honestly we were extremely surprised to find these did anything on the 
near

side of the unit. That came as a shock.

Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE
blows.


On Mar 20, 2017, at 19:29, Chuck McCown  wrote:

So, what would you have a suppressor do?  Not clamp to ground?
I  have not run into POE switches that will blow if shorted.  They are
energy limited.
What kind of switch?

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:28 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

So the problem we are running into is the suppressor fires and clamps
which shorts the power supply on the switch, which kills the switch
port.  Now I'm out both a switch port and a suppressor I'm not sure
what I've gained.

River Valley Internet
"We Never Forget You Have a Choice"
570-433-7070 x 700


On 3/20/17 6:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes, they are clamping the wire.  So think of most of our devices as 8
individual surge suppressors.  They will short the impulses to ground.
If (as is common) the impulses come in on all 8 wires at the same time,
all 8 wires are connected to ground and as a result they are also
connected to each other.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:06 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com
Subject: Question on APC Arresters

Hey Chuck...  was discussing your Ethernet arresters last night.

Is it normal operating mode for them, when they take a strike, to go
into a "short circuit" situation on both sides of the Ethernet port?

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

[Chuck McCown]

Current  limiting on the rectifier is always a good thing.  During recharge 
during deep discharge, hopefully the voltage did not go low enough to cause the 
system to fail.  If it did, then perhaps you should have had a low voltage 
disconnect, back up generator or larger battery.  

But having the batts pull down and starve the load will always happen to a 
certain extent.  If the system is still up when that happens it will not go 
down, it will just be low voltage for a while.  

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. No charge current limiting means the batteries will 
likely pull down the supply and starve the load. Also pay attention to the 
initial current spec on the batteries. Smaller ~9-20Ah batteries call for 2A or 
so. The Mean Well DR-UPS40 is capable of 40A @ 27VDC and limits the charging 
current to 2 or 2.5A I believe. It's a decent cheap option.

There's also the Mean Well DRC-100 A (12VDC) or B (24VDC). I wish they made a 
48V version. 100W and 1.25A of charging current which is roughly 2X the 
AD-155B. But the 155B gets you a little more power at 150W. I might start using 
the DRC-100B for new stuff since it's smaller and natively DIN rail mountable 
unlike the AD-155.

If you want fancy stuff like alarm contacts and temperature compensation, the 
Traco BCMU360 at about $170 + a Mean Well SDR240-24 or -48 isn't all that 
expensive. The BCMU is jumper selectable between 24 and 48VDC which is nice. 
Regulated output. Some folks don't like that it does the internal DC-DC 
conversion. Yes, it takes a 12VDC battery and converts to the selected output. 
I have up to 40AH on a few. The charging current is limited to 1A.

If you want big boy stuff, buy a rectifier shelf for 500W, 1kW, 2kW, whatever, 
and 100+ Ah of batteries. You can get ICT's new 1U shelf in +12, +24, +48 and 
-48.


On 3/20/2017 12:24 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  Qualifying info:  If you don't want/need any features like temperature 
compensation or low voltage disconnect, then all you need is a power supply 
that can be adjusted to your float voltage, then you wire the batteries and 
load in parallel.

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/20/2017 1:20:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

You don’t need two power supplies.  Just pick the  power supply that has 
enough current to both power the radios and supply a healthy recharge current 
right after a power outage to the radios.  
From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 11:11 AM
To: memb...@wispa.org ; af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] DC Power Site

Hello all, 

We're looking to build our first DC power site for small MicroPops and I 
see two options after reviewing the WISPA archives.

The first option would be the the SDR-240-24 and DR-UPS40 with Two 12v 
batteries powering a Netonix DC switch.


The second option we were looking at is just doing the AD-155A with one 12v 
battery but I see the charging current is only 0.5 amps and voltage is only 
13.3V which is not an optimal float voltage.


My question is, to keep cost down, would we be OK going the AD-155A route 
with the slightly lower float voltage with a 35ah battery? We're ok with the 
battery taking longer to charge but I'm just most worried if the 13.3V will 
wreck the battery or not.


Thanks all


-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Short answer is yes... if you look at all the 'Best Practices' install docs 
from all of the major Radio Mfg you will see that is exactly what they 
recommend.

Having said that.. I also concur with Chuck's post, stating that one can not be 
sure as to the source of the surge, and have to pay special attention to 
grounding and all the different grounds to be at the same potential otherwise 
the protection becomes the source of 'destruction'   :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Head" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:08:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters

> So, at the risk of sounding none-too-bright (which might be accurate in
> my case), is placing a SS on both ends of the Ethernet cable be the
> recommended course here? I.E. Switch---SS---Ethernet up the
> tower---SS--radio?
> Both SS grounded to earth ground via #2 copper going up the tower?
> 
> On 3/20/2017 7:50 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE 
>> blows.
>> That would be an in-correct statement or an in-correct assumption at best.
>>
>> Most passive switches have some-sort of over load protection built into them.
>> The question of how fast they react would be a valid one.
>>
>>
>> Matt you have to keep in mind that most equipment damage is not due to the
>> 'short' but due to the current flowing in the wrong direction..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>>> To: "Matt Hoppes" 
>>> Cc: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 7:58:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Question on APC Arresters
>>> You never know which direction the surge is coming from, many times, perhaps
>>> most times,  it comes from the power lines and originates in the NOC gear.
>>> And with a piece of CAT 5 going in and out of a surge protector, you never
>>> know what the surge protector is connected to.  A surge protector is
>>> essentially a piece of CAT 5 or a CAT 5 coupler with a few extra components.
>>> There really is no direction to them or a "tower side" to them.
>>>
>>> I could  fuse all 8 wires.  And have double surge suppressors.  Or just put
>>> surge on one side and label it "tower".
>>>
>>> How do you detect the direction of a nanosecond rise time pulse?  You would
>>> have to have an RF reflectometer on each of the 8 wires tied to some fast
>>> logic.   You would want sub microsecond switches that open the CAT5 and
>>> logic to figure out where the pulse comes from and send it where?  If it is
>>> a powered wire on the POE where do you want that connected to during the
>>> pulse?
>>>
>>> All surge suppressors I have ever seen do things essentially the same way I
>>> do things.
>>>
>>> In any event, I will post this to the group.  Perhaps there is a learning
>>> opportunity for me here.  Like to see if others have seen their POE blow
>>> when shorted.  I personally have not seen this before.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 5:46 PM
>>> To: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what the better option is. Not clamp on the power side, isolate
>>> and clamp on the tower side only?
>>>
>>> So a surge comes in, break the connection between ground and tower and only
>>> shunt tower side to ground.
>>>
>>> Honestly we were extremely surprised to find these did anything on the near
>>> side of the unit. That came as a shock.
>>>
>>> Netonix. Toughswitch. Tycon. Anything that isn't AF and is passive PoE
>>> blows.
>>>
 On Mar 20, 2017, at 19:29, Chuck McCown  wrote:

 So, what would you have a suppressor do?  Not clamp to ground?
 I  have not run into POE switches that will blow if shorted.  They are
 energy limited.
 What kind of switch?

 -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:28 PM
 To: Chuck McCown
 Subject: Re: Question on APC Arresters

 So the problem we are running into is the suppressor fires and clamps
 which shorts the power supply on the switch, which kills the switch
 port.  Now I'm out both a switch port and a suppressor I'm not sure
 what I've gained.

 River Valley Internet
 "We Never Forget You Have a Choice"
 570-433-7070 x 700

> On 3/20/17 6:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Yes, they are clamping the wire.  So think of most of our devices as 8
> individual surge suppressors.  They will short the impulses to ground.
> If (as is common) the impulses come in on all 8 wires at the same ti

[AFMUG] How does someone join AFMUIG?

[Rory Conaway]

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"An optimist will tell you the glass is half-full; the pessimist, half-empty; 
and the engineer will tell you the glass is twice the size it needs to be"

[AFMUG] Best switch for bonding dual 10Gbps radio links

[Rory Conaway]

Lots of options today and redundancy with the switches wouldn't be a bad thing 
either.

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"An optimist will tell you the glass is half-full; the pessimist, half-empty; 
and the engineer will tell you the glass is twice the size it needs to be"