Re: [AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs

[fiberrun]

That's interesting. Can you share more details about being a service provider 
on the iProvo and AF networks? In what way we're they substandard?

Jared

> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs
>
> I agree with that.
> 
> The numbers never added up. iProvo never added up, Utopia never added up, 
> Amercian Fork system numbers never made any sense.
> 
> I was a network provider on iProvo and AF networks for a while and sold them 
> off since they were always substandard and profit was driven to minimum.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:46 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs
> 
> Here is an editorial in the Deseret News today.  It is just an opinion.
> 
> And I know Roger has been a reader of this list (Roger runs UTOPIA).
> 
> But I have always been against municipal ISPs on principle.  Some things the 
> government is good at, some things they are not good at.
> 
> Roads and Streets == OK
> Police and Fire == OK
> EMS = OK but there are private providers that are OK too.
> Water and Sewer = OK but there are many private systems Power and Gas = Meh  
> -  I work in a city that has sold off their power and gas to private because 
> it was not a revenue center and they had lots of power distribution problems.
> 
> Telecommunications != OK
> 
> They almost always seem to be problematic.  And they compete with all of you 
> (us) folks that can do a better job.   (Sorry Roger, but that is my 
> opinion).
> 
> 
> BY BILLY HESTERMAN
> 
> FOR THE DESERET NEWS
> 
> A longstanding principle of the Utah Taxpayers Association is if a service 
> can be found in the yellow pages, then government shouldn’t be providing it. 
> We have seen far too many times where government attempts to compete with the 
> private sector and ends up wasting taxpayer money. One prime example of this 
> is the failed UTOPIA boondoggle that continues to plague the 11 cities that 
> created the entity.
> 
> On Aug. 14, the Utah Infrastructure Agency, which was created in 2011 to give 
> UTOPIA more borrowing capacity, will vote on taking out a $13 million bond to 
> further build out the UTOPIA network in hopes of making the whole effort 
> profitable. The vote will likely pass but the effort to make UTOPIA and UIA a 
> success for taxpayers will never be realized.
> 
> This attempt to continue to send money after a bad idea has to stop.
> 
> The private sector is already providing the same service that can be obtained 
> through UTOPIA and it is past time that the local governments that created 
> this mess find a way out.
> 
> Recently, the University of Pennsylvania released a study that examined 20 
> municipally owned fiber networks from across the nation; UTOPIA was included 
> in the study.
> 
> The report found that a majority of these networks struggle to recover the 
> costs that were incurred to build them. It went on to show that of the 20 
> projects, only nine have had a positive revenue stream but that of those 
> nine, five are generating returns so small that it would take more than 100 
> years for the project costs to be recovered. Only two of the 20 networks are 
> expected to earn enough to cover their project costs during the useful life 
> of the networks.
> 
> The Penn report went on to state that these government-owned ventures 
> struggle to ever make a profit and put taxpayers in danger of seeing their 
> local government increase debt, lose bond rating status and elected officials 
> becoming distracted from other important issues because they are solely 
> focused on the government’s fiber business. The report found that if UTOPIA 
> continues in its current state, that the project will likely never turn a 
> profit. It observed in a five-year span from 2010-2014 that the network only 
> obtained 11,000 subscribers and that with a low subscription take the network 
> was realizing less than $30 in revenue per household in the cities that make 
> up UTOPIA. That is well below the $446 per household benchmark  achieved by 
> other projects that the report looked at.
> 
> I am often asked why the Utah Taxpayers Association cares so deeply about the 
> UTOPIA issue. One statement from the Penn report sums up why we have taken 
> the position we have as the report states, “Many cities managing these 
> projects have faced defaults, reductions in bond ratings, and ongoing 
> liability, not to mention the toll that troubled municipal broadband ventures 
> can take on city leaders in terms of personal turmoil and distraction from 
> other matters important to citizens. City leaders should carefully assess all 
> of these costs and risks before permitting a municipal fiber program to go 
> forward.”
> 
> The risks and consequences are too much for taxpayers to 

Re: [AFMUG] moving 10gbps 12 miles

[fiberrun]

ELVA-1 has an E-band radio which they claim will do full duplex 10G up to 12 
miles with 2' dishes. 

Jared
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] moving 10gbps 12 miles

Im guessing there is no realistic (cost competitive to fiber) option aside from 
fiber to move this kind of bandwidth, or is there?
 
Fiber would require traversing 2 state highways and a railroad track, so there 
is that.

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Wow Ye a Man of Many Talents .. 

Spoken Word be one of them I would have thought naught ! 

The Big C M hath spoken... so let this thread be naught ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 7:56:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> You got it:
> Posts of snark, posts so cussed
> full of butt hurt, bitches not just
> I scatter these posts, these posts of rage
> take thine ignorant friend, make him age
> I see thine missives before me now
> I trash them, delete them, filter them down
> With these keystrokes I now do pwn
> Make thine mouse balls turn to stone
> With this hex I curse this thread
> further thoughts - pain in head
> So mote it be!
> From: Mitch Koep
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?
> LOL it will go on and on forever
> Mitch
> On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'
> We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
> service.
> We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
> customers
> to visit before deciding to utilize.
> How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be
> anywhere...
> BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they
> are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended
> that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country
> when they are a US Based company ?
> Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone
> dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?
> :)
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.
> Post pictures like this.
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.
> At what point is this a problem?
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to
> visit the facility regularly. :-)
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> The Brothers WISP
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center
> at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.
> As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular 
> where
> it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the 
> DC
> 24x7.
> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's
> volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do
> their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom
> are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably
> not helping here :)
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> The Brothers WISP
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then
> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential
> employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered 
> offensive
> to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why
> the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which
> 

[AFMUG] Alkaline Rechargeables making a comeback

[Rory Conaway]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/technology/alkaline-batteries-replace-lithium-ion.html

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

""Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features 
yet."- Scott Adams

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

/quit

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> You got it:
>  
> Posts of snark, posts so cussed
> full of butt hurt, bitches not just
> I scatter these posts, these posts of rage
> take thine ignorant friend, make him age
> I see thine missives before me now
> I trash them, delete them, filter them down
> With these keystrokes I now do pwn
> Make thine mouse balls turn to stone 
> With this hex I curse this thread
> further thoughts -  pain in head
> So mote it be!
>  
>  
> From: Mitch Koep
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
> Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?
>  
> LOL it will go on and on forever
>  
> Mitch
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>  
> Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'
>  
> We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
> service.
>  
> We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
> customers to visit before deciding to utilize.
>  
> How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
> anywhere...
>  
>  
> BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
> are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
> that  are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a  foreign country 
> when they are a US Based company ?
>  
> Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
> dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?
>  
> :)
>  
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>  
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>  
>  
> From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.
>  
> Post pictures like this.
>  
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.
>  
> At what point is this a problem?
>  
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>  
>  
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
> visit the facility regularly.  :-)
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>  
> The Brothers WISP
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
>  
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
>  
>  
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in 
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is 
> manned within the DC 24x7. 
>  
>  
> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
>  
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
>  
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
> not helping here :) 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>  
> The Brothers WISP
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
>  
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Chuck McCown]

You got it:

Posts of snark, posts so cussed 
full of butt hurt, bitches not just 
I scatter these posts, these posts of rage 
take thine ignorant friend, make him age 
I see thine missives before me now 
I trash them, delete them, filter them down 
With these keystrokes I now do pwn 
Make thine mouse balls turn to stone 
With this hex I curse this thread 
further thoughts -  pain in head 
So mote it be! 


From: Mitch Koep 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?

LOL it will go on and on forever

Mitch




On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service.

We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize.

How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere...


BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that  are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 

Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem?

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:


Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly.  :-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "Paul Stewart" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX



I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?


Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.  
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7.  


An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :)  





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "Paul Stewart" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul



On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
Question??
Eric
Why are you so upset?
Did 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G7b1zOhO_A 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mitch Koep"  
To: af@afmug.com, "Faisal Imtiaz"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:38:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 


Will somebody PLEASE kill this string? 
LOL it will go on and on forever 
Mitch 


On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?' 


We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service. 


We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize. 


How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere... 




BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 


Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem? 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 


Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mitch Koep]

Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?

LOL it will go on and on forever

Mitch


On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
service.


We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize.


How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could 
be anywhere...



BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from 
Equinix they are using a beautiful picture of high rises in 
Dubai... should we be offended that  are they using an awesome picture 
of high-rises from a foreign country when they are a US Based company ?


Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and 
everyone dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?


:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with
generator backup.

Post pictures like this.

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's
and a roll out generator we plug in with extension cords.

At what point is this a problem?

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:

Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when
orders are submitted, the data center's cross connect crew
does all the work. No need to visit the facility regularly.  :-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Paul Stewart" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR,
rarely in the data center at all. Once a month? Once every
other month?


Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are
daily in MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak
personally about one IX in particular where it’s 2-3 times a
week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC
24x7.


 An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid
building management. No one's volunteered blood, sweat and
tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access
to the MMR’s to do their work. It varies of course… quite a
number of IX’s use colo providers whom are paid to do that MMR
work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the
conversation as probably not helping here :)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 






*From:*"Paul Stewart" >
*To:*"Animal Farm" >
*Sent:*Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM

Re: [AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs

[Sterling Jacobson]

I agree with that.

The numbers never added up. iProvo never added up, Utopia never added up, 
Amercian Fork system numbers never made any sense.

I was a network provider on iProvo and AF networks for a while and sold them 
off since they were always substandard and profit was driven to minimum.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs

Here is an editorial in the Deseret News today.  It is just an opinion.

And I know Roger has been a reader of this list (Roger runs UTOPIA).

But I have always been against municipal ISPs on principle.  Some things the 
government is good at, some things they are not good at.

Roads and Streets == OK
Police and Fire == OK
EMS = OK but there are private providers that are OK too.
Water and Sewer = OK but there are many private systems Power and Gas = Meh  -  
I work in a city that has sold off their power and gas to private because it 
was not a revenue center and they had lots of power distribution problems.

Telecommunications != OK

They almost always seem to be problematic.  And they compete with all of you 
(us) folks that can do a better job.   (Sorry Roger, but that is my 
opinion).


BY BILLY HESTERMAN

FOR THE DESERET NEWS

A longstanding principle of the Utah Taxpayers Association is if a service can 
be found in the yellow pages, then government shouldn’t be providing it. 
We have seen far too many times where government attempts to compete with the 
private sector and ends up wasting taxpayer money. One prime example of this is 
the failed UTOPIA boondoggle that continues to plague the 11 cities that 
created the entity.

On Aug. 14, the Utah Infrastructure Agency, which was created in 2011 to give 
UTOPIA more borrowing capacity, will vote on taking out a $13 million bond to 
further build out the UTOPIA network in hopes of making the whole effort 
profitable. The vote will likely pass but the effort to make UTOPIA and UIA a 
success for taxpayers will never be realized.

This attempt to continue to send money after a bad idea has to stop.

The private sector is already providing the same service that can be obtained 
through UTOPIA and it is past time that the local governments that created this 
mess find a way out.

Recently, the University of Pennsylvania released a study that examined 20 
municipally owned fiber networks from across the nation; UTOPIA was included in 
the study.

The report found that a majority of these networks struggle to recover the 
costs that were incurred to build them. It went on to show that of the 20 
projects, only nine have had a positive revenue stream but that of those nine, 
five are generating returns so small that it would take more than 100 years for 
the project costs to be recovered. Only two of the 20 networks are expected to 
earn enough to cover their project costs during the useful life of the networks.

The Penn report went on to state that these government-owned ventures struggle 
to ever make a profit and put taxpayers in danger of seeing their local 
government increase debt, lose bond rating status and elected officials 
becoming distracted from other important issues because they are solely focused 
on the government’s fiber business. The report found that if UTOPIA continues 
in its current state, that the project will likely never turn a profit. It 
observed in a five-year span from 2010-2014 that the network only obtained 
11,000 subscribers and that with a low subscription take the network was 
realizing less than $30 in revenue per household in the cities that make up 
UTOPIA. That is well below the $446 per household benchmark  achieved by other 
projects that the report looked at.

I am often asked why the Utah Taxpayers Association cares so deeply about the 
UTOPIA issue. One statement from the Penn report sums up why we have taken the 
position we have as the report states, “Many cities managing these projects 
have faced defaults, reductions in bond ratings, and ongoing liability, not to 
mention the toll that troubled municipal broadband ventures can take on city 
leaders in terms of personal turmoil and distraction from other matters 
important to citizens. City leaders should carefully assess all of these costs 
and risks before permitting a municipal fiber program to go forward.”

The risks and consequences are too much for taxpayers to shoulder.

UTOPIA and UIA officials should vote against the upcoming $13 million bond and 
start looking for new directions to take the network that will be beneficial 
for taxpayers instead of continually investing money into a sinking ship that 
will never be sea-worthy.

Billy Hesterman is the vice president of the Utah Taxpayers Association.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Eclipse

[Adam Moffett]

At the least it's better to burn the camera than the eyeball.


-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 8/6/2017 4:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Eclipse

Do beware,   Optical paths through cameras/telescopes can get VERY HOT 
observing the sun.   Optical coatings were not designed to be pointed 
directly at the sun for long periods of time and can overheat and 
destroy your optics.   Pin holes may solve the problem or just make a 
large heat differential.   This is the time for a heavy duty neutral 
density filter in front of all your optics...




On 08/06/2017 09:00 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I plan to use a camera and tv. :)

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:41 AM, >

> wrote:

If you are fortunate enough to be able to see the eclipse on the 
21st,

low cost optical filters can be made out of a double layer of
aluminized Mylar space blankets.

$1.99, cut up many strips and  you have your viewing glasses and
dozens to give away.

And of course you don’t need any eye protection during totality.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Eclipse

[Robert Andrews]

Do beware,   Optical paths through cameras/telescopes can get VERY HOT 
observing the sun.   Optical coatings were not designed to be pointed 
directly at the sun for long periods of time and can overheat and 
destroy your optics.   Pin holes may solve the problem or just make a 
large heat differential.   This is the time for a heavy duty neutral 
density filter in front of all your optics...




On 08/06/2017 09:00 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I plan to use a camera and tv. :)

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:41 AM, >
> wrote:


If you are fortunate enough to be able to see the eclipse on the 21st,
low cost optical filters can be made out of a double layer of
aluminized Mylar space blankets.

$1.99, cut up many strips and  you have your viewing glasses and
dozens to give away.

And of course you don’t need any eye protection during totality.

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?' 

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service. 

We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize. 

How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere... 

BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 

Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.

> Post pictures like this.

> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.

> At what point is this a problem?

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
>> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to
>> visit the facility regularly. :-)

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

>>> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
>>> center
>>> at all. Once a month? Once every other month?

>> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
>> MMR’s.
>> As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular 
>> where
>> it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the 
>> DC
>> 24x7.

>>> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
>>> one's
>>> volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

>> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s 
>> to do
>> their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
>> whom
>> are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

>> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably
>> not helping here :)

>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org >
>>> To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com >
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

>>> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
>>> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
>>> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
>>> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
>>> then
>>> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
>>> potential
>>> employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered 
>>> offensive
>>> to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

>>> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
>>> why
>>> the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which
>>> point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
>>> because
>>> it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s
>>> work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is 
>>> often
>>> people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the 
>>> rewards
>>> to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t 
>>> been
>>> involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here 
>>> ….

>>> Paul

 On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote:
 Question??
 Eric
 Why are you so upset?
 Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
 I agree with Faisal it's a picture
 Mitch
 On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

> Share with you a related story

> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
> some
> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one
> picture that caught eye and appeared to 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Steve Jones]

If youre not reading the contract before you sign it, and following up with
questions about basic things like that then there is a much bigger issue
for your company than a stock profile background image

On Aug 6, 2017 11:03 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator
> backup.
>
> Post pictures like this.
>
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a
> roll out generator we plug in with extension cords.
>
> At what point is this a problem?
>
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need
> to visit the facility regularly.  :-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Paul Stewart" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>
>
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
>
>
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is
> manned within the DC 24x7.
>
>
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do
> it was.
>
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s
> to do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo
> providers whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
>
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as
> probably not helping here :)
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Paul Stewart" 
> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some
> people’s mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into
> something and then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly
> resemble where a potential employee would work then it’s just misleading
> and could be considered offensive to the people who did all the work
> originally ….. make sense?
>
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as
> well because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for
> someone else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot
> about) there is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer
> however they get the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the
> community … if you haven’t been involved at that level you may not
> understand anything I’m suggesting here ….
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>
> Question??
> Eric
> Why are you so upset?
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Share with you a related story
>
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo 

[AFMUG] OT Municipally funded ISPs

[chuck]

Here is an editorial in the Deseret News today.  It is just an opinion.

And I know Roger has been a reader of this list (Roger runs UTOPIA).

But I have always been against municipal ISPs on principle.  Some things the 
government is good at, some things they are not good at.


Roads and Streets == OK
Police and Fire == OK
EMS = OK but there are private providers that are OK too.
Water and Sewer = OK but there are many private systems
Power and Gas = Meh  -  I work in a city that has sold off their power and 
gas to private because it was not a revenue center and they had lots of 
power distribution problems.


Telecommunications != OK

They almost always seem to be problematic.  And they compete with all of you 
(us) folks that can do a better job.   (Sorry Roger, but that is my 
opinion).



BY BILLY HESTERMAN

FOR THE DESERET NEWS

A longstanding principle of the Utah Taxpayers Association is if a service 
can be found in the yellow pages, then government shouldn’t be providing it. 
We have seen far too many times where government attempts to compete with 
the private sector and ends up wasting taxpayer money. One prime example of 
this is the failed UTOPIA boondoggle that continues to plague the 11 cities 
that created the entity.


On Aug. 14, the Utah Infrastructure Agency, which was created in 2011 to 
give UTOPIA more borrowing capacity, will vote on taking out a $13 million 
bond to further build out the UTOPIA network in hopes of making the whole 
effort profitable. The vote will likely pass but the effort to make UTOPIA 
and UIA a success for taxpayers will never be realized.


This attempt to continue to send money after a bad idea has to stop.

The private sector is already providing the same service that can be 
obtained through UTOPIA and it is past time that the local governments that 
created this mess find a way out.


Recently, the University of Pennsylvania released a study that examined 20 
municipally owned fiber networks from across the nation; UTOPIA was included 
in the study.


The report found that a majority of these networks struggle to recover the 
costs that were incurred to build them. It went on to show that of the 20 
projects, only nine have had a positive revenue stream but that of those 
nine, five are generating returns so small that it would take more than 100 
years for the project costs to be recovered. Only two of the 20 networks are 
expected to earn enough to cover their project costs during the useful life 
of the networks.


The Penn report went on to state that these government-owned ventures 
struggle to ever make a profit and put taxpayers in danger of seeing their 
local government increase debt, lose bond rating status and elected 
officials becoming distracted from other important issues because they are 
solely focused on the government’s fiber business. The report found that if 
UTOPIA continues in its current state, that the project will likely never 
turn a profit. It observed in a five-year span from 2010-2014 that the 
network only obtained 11,000 subscribers and that with a low subscription 
take the network was realizing less than $30 in revenue per household in the 
cities that make up UTOPIA. That is well below the $446 per household 
benchmark  achieved by other projects that the report looked at.


I am often asked why the Utah Taxpayers Association cares so deeply about 
the UTOPIA issue. One statement from the Penn report sums up why we have 
taken the position we have as the report states, “Many cities managing these 
projects have faced defaults, reductions in bond ratings, and ongoing 
liability, not to mention the toll that troubled municipal broadband 
ventures can take on city leaders in terms of personal turmoil and 
distraction from other matters important to citizens. City leaders should 
carefully assess all of these costs and risks before permitting a municipal 
fiber program to go forward.”


The risks and consequences are too much for taxpayers to shoulder.

UTOPIA and UIA officials should vote against the upcoming $13 million bond 
and start looking for new directions to take the network that will be 
beneficial for taxpayers instead of continually investing money into a 
sinking ship that will never be sea-worthy.


Billy Hesterman is the vice president of the Utah Taxpayers Association.

Re: [AFMUG] DW shutsdown

[Mike Hammett]

In the first article I read: 



= 
The company suffered a major blow in late 2015 after Nokia – which historically 
provided a significant portion of DragonWave’s revenue as an original equipment 
manufacturer sales channel – acquired DragonWave competitor Alcatel-Lucent. 


The firm’s total revenues from the Nokia sales channel dropped from $84 million 
– more than half its total sales – in fiscal 2015 to just $11 million, or about 
a quarter of its total revenues, in 2017. = 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Gino A. Villarini"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 10:41:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] DW shutsdown 


http://www.rcrwireless.com/20170803/business/backhaul-firm-dragonwave-enters-receivership-tag17
 



Gino A. Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

It's a problem when you're not even understanding what you're talking about, so 
it's a problem now. Well, and you didn't attach the pictures you were talking 
about. 

You said you advertise colo A and have colo B. That's different than having IX 
A and showing colo B. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 11:03:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 


Post pictures like this. 


Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 


At what point is this a problem? 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 







I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 


Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem?

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
> visit the facility regularly.  :-)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> 
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
> 
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in 
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is 
> manned within the DC 24x7.  
> 
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
> 
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
> 
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
> not helping here :)  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
> 
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> Question??
> Eric
> Why are you so upset?
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Share with you a related story
> 
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
> 
> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
> access from them)  !...
> 
> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
> enough to put in their conf. room.
> 
> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
> an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on 
> the net... 
> 
> and that is IMHO !
> 
> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
> 
> :)
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 
> From: 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Eclipse

[Matt Hoppes]

I plan to use a camera and tv. :)

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:41 AM,   wrote:
> 
> If you are fortunate enough to be able to see the eclipse on the 21st, low 
> cost optical filters can be made out of a double layer of aluminized Mylar 
> space blankets. 
>  
> $1.99, cut up many strips and  you have your viewing glasses and dozens to 
> give away. 
>  
> And of course you don’t need any eye protection during totality. 

[AFMUG] OT Eclipse

[chuck]

If you are fortunate enough to be able to see the eclipse on the 21st, low cost 
optical filters can be made out of a double layer of aluminized Mylar space 
blankets.  

$1.99, cut up many strips and  you have your viewing glasses and dozens to give 
away.  

And of course you don’t need any eye protection during totality.  

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 







I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 


Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 


and that is IMHO ! 


Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[chuck]

It is amazing how a collection of subject matter experts can strain at gnats.  

I am just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to my area of special concern. 
 Part 15 antenna certification requirements etc.  

Time to listen to this again:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/371/scenes-from-a-mall?act=3

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 9:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I suppose also different if I operated a datacenter, MMR, etc. I sell an IX, 
not an MMR.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:25:41 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


Sure, if you were actually paying for the room to stay in, then you should 
expect the room to look like the picture..

However we sell "fluff" (nothing physical) and "electrons moving over cables 
creating emotions".. you are not likely to  get to touch, feel, smell or even 
step into the Colo Room as a subscriber to the IX there is no claim being 
made by Midwest IX that this Colo Room is theirs ... 

Folks have stock pictures of People on their web site... Should we now argue 
that it should be pictures of their actual Employees ?  
We have stock pictures of Equipment in a Colo, Racks / cabinets etc etc .. 
Should they be of the ones that we Own or Rent ? 
We have stock pictures of Towers and radios etc etc .. Should they be ours all 
the time ? 


Common.. this is 'meaningless conversation'...

Bit of advice to Eric before issuing a condescending remark or a demand 
notice  to others on a public list, especially when there is no direct personal 
vested interest, it would be best to ask the question rather than issuing a 
demand notice

This conversation would have gone totally different if it was asked... " Hey 
you all @ Midwest IXP, why are you using the Picture of Westin Bldg Meet Me 
room" on your website ? 

:)

Regards.
 


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 1:24:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  Let me see if I can add some sanity to this discussion:

  Eric seems put out not because of the use of the picture itself, but instead 
because a site for one internet exchange is using a picture for a different 
internet exchange.   
  The other side of the discussion is that it is a stock photo of an internet 
exchange meet-me room, and it is perfectly legitimate to use that picture.

  I look at this a lot like the photos on a hotel site.  When you're looking at 
a site for a hotel, you'd expect all of the photos to be of that hotel.  Yet, 
it is amazing how often I come across stock pictures used.   Yes, it might be a 
picture of a particular brand of hotel, but sometimes it's just a 
representative picture, not a picture of the exact hotel.  

  For example, compare the photos at:
  https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/skokie

  and
  https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/midway


  I've seen uses where the actual rooms aren't even close to the website 
photos.  Personally this kinda pisses me off, as if you're showing photos 
of somewhere I'm going to stay or rent (or use for interconnect purposes) I'd 
really prefer them to be actually of the place.  On the other hand, this seems 
to be widespread enough that it's pretty much an accepted practice at this 
point, so perhaps I'm in the minority with this opinion.

  Personally, I'd probably try very hard to ensure that I had pictures up on 
the website which were of the facility I was promoting.   


  On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
to advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier 
hotel in downtown Seattle.






  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Paul Stewart]

> 
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?

Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.  
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7.  
> 
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
> 
True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :)  


> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" >
> To: "Animal Farm" >
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
> 
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  > wrote:
> 
> Question??
> Eric
> Why are you so upset?
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Share with you a related story
> 
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
> 
> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
> access from them)  !...
> 
> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
> enough to put in their conf. room.
> 
> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
> an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on 
> the net... 
> 
> and that is IMHO !
> 
> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
> 
> :)
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> 
> 
> From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> I am not the 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

I suppose also different if I operated a datacenter, MMR, etc. I sell an IX, 
not an MMR. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Faisal Imtiaz"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:25:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



Sure, if you were actually paying for the room to stay in, then you should 
expect the room to look like the picture.. 


However we sell "fluff" (nothing physical) and "electrons moving over cables 
creating emotions".. you are not likely to get to touch, feel, smell or even 
step into the Colo Room as a subscriber to the IX there is no claim being 
made by Midwest IX that this Colo Room is theirs ... 


Folks have stock pictures of People on their web site... Should we now argue 
that it should be pictures of their actual Employees ? 
We have stock pictures of Equipment in a Colo, Racks / cabinets etc etc .. 
Should they be of the ones that we Own or Rent ? 
We have stock pictures of Towers and radios etc etc .. Should they be ours all 
the time ? 




Common.. this is 'meaningless conversation'... 


Bit of advice to Eric before issuing a condescending remark or a demand 
notice to others on a public list, especially when there is no direct personal 
vested interest, it would be best to ask the question rather than issuing a 
demand notice 


This conversation would have gone totally different if it was asked... " Hey 
you all @ Midwest IXP, why are you using the Picture of Westin Bldg Meet Me 
room" on your website ? 

:) 


Regards. 




Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 1:24:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






Let me see if I can add some sanity to this discussion: 

Eric seems put out not because of the use of the picture itself, but instead 
because a site for one internet exchange is using a picture for a different 
internet exchange. 
The other side of the discussion is that it is a stock photo of an internet 
exchange meet-me room, and it is perfectly legitimate to use that picture. 

I look at this a lot like the photos on a hotel site. When you're looking at a 
site for a hotel, you'd expect all of the photos to be of that hotel. Yet, it 
is amazing how often I come across stock pictures used. Yes, it might be a 
picture of a particular brand of hotel, but sometimes it's just a 
representative picture, not a picture of the exact hotel. 

For example, compare the photos at: 
https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/skokie 

and 
https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/midway 


I've seen uses where the actual rooms aren't even close to the website photos. 
Personally this kinda pisses me off, as if you're showing photos of somewhere 
I'm going to stay or rent (or use for interconnect purposes) I'd really prefer 
them to be actually of the place. On the other hand, this seems to be 
widespread enough that it's pretty much an accepted practice at this point, so 
perhaps I'm in the minority with this opinion. 

Personally, I'd probably try very hard to ensure that I had pictures up on the 
website which were of the facility I was promoting. 



On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
downtown Seattle. 

Inline image 1





-- 





Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

Towers from another WISP or random towers in a pretty picture? One is similar 
to the situation, the other is not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 9:13:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website? 


Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 







Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth. 
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
of the product as they hope it to be... 

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all of 
us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms. 
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels. 

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet. So some of us point 
that out. 

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell. An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling. OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet. 




From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM 
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 

Paul 






On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 

and that is IMHO ! 

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 

No claim of credit is being taken. 

Going to the original complaintant's employer's web site... is that lady doing 
whatever dev work she's doing a Noel employee\customer? Is that phone the type 
of phone you get with their voice service? Are those switches, patch panels and 
depictions of swirling light really what they're using? I'm assuming not. I'm 
assuming they're just stock images. I'm not assuming Noel is claiming all of 
the above. It's just a random image that looked nice and fit in with the page 
and what the service generally is. 

I suppose it would be different if we had pictures of SIX's core switches on 
our web site. We don't. We have a generic, pretty MMR. An MMR not maintained by 
volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's volunteered blood, sweat 
and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 


Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 


and that is IMHO ! 


Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
downtown Seattle. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>>> request. 
 Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
 to advertise the Missouri IX. 

Hmm... not the copyright owner.. 
Not the Building Owner 
Not the Colo Owner 

So hence my question... as a third party affiliate why should there be any 
resentment ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Cc: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 7:56:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then
> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential
> employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered 
> offensive
> to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why
> the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which
> point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because
> it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s
> work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often
> people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards
> to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been
> involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

> Paul

>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote:

>> Question??

>> Eric

>> Why are you so upset?

>> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

>> I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch
>> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

>>> Share with you a related story

>>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some
>>> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one
>>> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
>>> of
>>> cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

>>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so
>>> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
>>> picture !
>>> I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
>>> take
>>> pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
>>> access
>>> from them) !...

>>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I
>>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable
>>> enough to put in their conf. room.

>>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>>> why
>>> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
>>> an
>>> actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the
>>> net...

>>> and that is IMHO !

>>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
>>> !.

>>> :)

>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
 Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

 I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
 request.
 Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
 to
 advertise the Missouri IX.

 Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
 of
 time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

 In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
 facilities may
 currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in
 downtown Seattle.

 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[chuck]

After 4 and 7 years respectively, I ended two orgies this summer.  I feel so 
legit now.  Makes me want to do dishes and mow the lawn.  
> If our sites didnt look like a bunch of rats had an orgy during a tornado, id 
> love to see my sites used to represent the industry

On Aug 6, 2017 9:13 AM, "Matt Hoppes"  wrote:

  Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

  Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

  On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or 
rendering of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all 
of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.  
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.  

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very 
nice pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us 
point that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.  

From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


  On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

  Question??

  Eric

  Why are you so upset?

  Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

  I agree with Faisal it's a picture

  Mitch

  On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! 
... so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare 
you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy 
roof access from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... 
and I actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. 
then why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that 
picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being 
promoted on the net... 

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may 
vary !.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

  Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me 
room to advertise the Missouri IX. 

  Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Steve Jones]

Alot of isps have stock photos. As long as its not specifically marketed as
their site, its just a general image.
The nursing home here has all kinds of stock photos of nurses that dont
work there, its all young beautiful ladies, when the reality is its mostly
old obese women.
Ive also never eaten a fast food burger that looks like the image on the
menu.

Stock photos are sold to the stock photo vendors. Same as we buy upstream
bandwidth to sell to our customers. We dont own the internet, or the
"cloud" but many show images of a customer connected to a "cloud".

>From a facilities security standpoint, i would think it would be bad form
to present actual images of the real premise.

Somewhere along the lines the owner of the premise in this image gave
permission for it to be used as a stock photo. If our sites didnt look like
a bunch of rats had an orgy during a tornado, id love to see my sites used
to represent the industry

On Aug 6, 2017 9:13 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

Seems like you should sell your own dog food.

On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or
rendering of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all
of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very
nice pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of
us point that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so
they plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.

*From:* Paul Stewart
*Sent:* Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some
people’s mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into
something and then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly
resemble where a potential employee would work then it’s just misleading
and could be considered offensive to the people who did all the work
originally ….. make sense?

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about
why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at
which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as
well because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for
someone else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot
about) there is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer
however they get the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the
community … if you haven’t been involved at that level you may not
understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul



On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:


Question??

Eric

Why are you so upset?

Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

I agree with Faisal it's a picture
Mitch
On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was
one picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a
picture of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ...
so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice
picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How
dare you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we
don't buy roof access from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then
why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that
picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being
promoted on the net...

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary
!.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

--

*From: *"Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
*To: 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
> How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
> of the product as they hope it to be...
>  
> Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all 
> of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms. 
> I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels. 
>  
> We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
> pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us point 
> that out.
>  
> Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
> pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
> plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet. 
>  
> From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
>  
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about  
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
>  
> Paul
>  
>  
>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>  
>> Question??
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> Why are you so upset?
>> 
>> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
>> 
>> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
>> 
>> Mitch
>>> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>> Share with you a related story
>>>  
>>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
>>> some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was 
>>> one picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a 
>>> picture of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>>>  
>>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... 
>>> so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
>>> picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How 
>>> dare you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we 
>>> don't buy roof access from them)  !...
>>>  
>>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
>>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
>>> enough to put in their conf. room.
>>>  
>>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>>> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that 
>>> picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being 
>>> promoted on the net...
>>>  
>>> and that is IMHO !
>>>  
>>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
>>> !.
>>>  
>>> :)
>>>  
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>> 
>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>  
>>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>>> request. 
>>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>>> to advertise the Missouri IX.
>>>  
>>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great
>>> deal of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>>>  
>>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
>>> facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a 
>>> carrier hotel in downtown Seattle.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Chuck McCown]

Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all of 
us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.  
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.  

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us point 
that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.  

From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


  On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

  Question??

  Eric

  Why are you so upset?

  Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

  I agree with Faisal it's a picture

  Mitch

  On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... 
so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
!.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

  Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me 
room to advertise the Missouri IX. 

  Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

  In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier 
hotel in downtown Seattle.

  

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Paul Stewart]

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> Question??
> 
> Eric
> 
> Why are you so upset?
> 
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> 
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> 
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> Share with you a related story
>> 
>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
>> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
>> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
>> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>> 
>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
>> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
>> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
>> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
>> access from them)  !...
>> 
>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
>> enough to put in their conf. room.
>> 
>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture 
>> of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted 
>> on the net... 
>> 
>> and that is IMHO !
>> 
>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> 
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>> request. 
>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>> to advertise the Missouri IX. 
>> 
>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
>> time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>> 
>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
>> may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
>> downtown Seattle.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Actually the UBNT EdgeRouter Infinity might be fit… when finally released

http://www.4netonline.com/ws/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/EdgeRouter_ER-8-XG_Distributor_DS.pdf

From: Af > on behalf of 
George Skorup >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 6:58 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Probably won't be that great for routing, but... 
https://mikrotik.com/product/crs317_1g_16s_rm




Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On 8/5/2017 1:31 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
Well, you could pair a CCR with 10Gbps In and Out with a SFP+ switch like a 
Force10 and have 48 or more SFP+ ports.

I think UBNT has a small port count SFP+ switch, but it’s not a router, you 
would need that paired with their new router that has a couple of SFP+ ports.

The CCR 1072 is the best option I’ve seen so far for a good router/SFP+ port 
count combination with eight SFP+ ports.
I don’t think a device exists that compairs to that at that price point.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 7:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Thinking of providing 10g services?

From: Af > on behalf of Paul 
McCall >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 9:39 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Yes, at least a couple ports.   I suppose I am looking at a CCR that has enough 
SFP+ ports to support 2 or 3 PCs at 10Gbit connection.

This is all a bit down the road (90 days) so perhaps there will be a lower cost 
multi SFP+ port CCR out by then.  Right now, the CCR1009 at sub $ 400 would 
have one IN and one OUT.

I may be thinking a little ahead of my time 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 9:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Ohh I missed the SFP+ … hmm not many options partner

Does it has to have 10G electrical too?

From: Af > on behalf of Paul 
McCall >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 9:15 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

3 GBs

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 12:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

What kinds of speeds you want to support?

From: Af > on behalf of Paul 
McCall >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Friday, August 4, 2017 at 12:24 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: [AFMUG] Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Any SOHO router (cost effective) that does SFP+?

Was considering negotiating to buy a bunch of SFP+ BiDi for a large 
implementation if I can get them around $ 60 a set (vs. $ 20 per set for 1GB 
SFP).  Then my cranial vault spewed forth a reminder that stanard CPE type 
routers don’t support that.  So, the question is, are there a few that I am not 
thinking of?

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com





Gino A. Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:part26.5CF28097.BDDF62CA@cbcast.com]



Gino A. Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:part26.5CF28097.BDDF62CA@cbcast.com]



Gino A. Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:part26.5CF28097.BDDF62CA@cbcast.com]