Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

It won't be the config templates in the long run, it'll be a nice GUI.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 18, 2016 9:19 AM, "David"  wrote:

> Have not seen any of the official releases yet but I have a test account
> and so far it is pretty nice.
> Still learning the template configs to down load and upload what I need to
> them.
>
>
> On 02/17/2016 07:51 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Still waiting on cnMaestro myself...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:49 PM, David Milholen 
> wrote:
>
>> R201P is available.. We have em. Our techs love em just for its
>> simplicity on configuration.
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
>>
>> R201 is dual band and units available =)
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
>>> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>>>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame
>>>>> houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on
>>>>> the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
>>>>> your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within
>>>>> 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar 
>>>>> sized
>>>>> reflectors...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around
>>>>> -69 on both chains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>>>> of an aspen tree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>>>> the houses.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Be

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David]

I thought it was the one armed one eyed Chinese guy who was slowing 
things down :)



On 02/17/2016 08:37 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper 
left and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot
of cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range
android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood
frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot to
choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP for
each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Eric
Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount
of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and
signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
 wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much
more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I
can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine
tree nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance
of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into the
interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave
oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
years has shown that pine trees are worse than
others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
dipole with a termination resistor. That is really
going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on
some of their surfaces that operate by similar
principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett

*Sent:*Wednesday, Feb

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David]

Have not seen any of the official releases yet but I have a test account 
and so far it is pretty nice.
Still learning the template configs to down load and upload what I need 
to them.



On 02/17/2016 07:51 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Still waiting on cnMaestro myself...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:49 PM, David Milholen <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


R201P is available.. We have em. Our techs love em just for its
simplicity on configuration.


On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot
of cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range
android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood
frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot to
choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP for
each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Eric
Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount
of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and
signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
 wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much
more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I
can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
        *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine
tree nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance
of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into the
interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave
oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
years has shown that pine trees are worse than
others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
dipole with a termination resistor. That is really
going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on
some of their surfaces that operate by similar
princip

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[George Skorup]

No, I don't like to get "high" I'll just stay here where the land is 
nice and flat, and all the people are assholes like me.


I'm pretty sure weed plays a part in the commercials these guys come up 
with. Or cocaine. Who knows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUUGq-KwAD0


I guess we derailed this thread.

On 2/17/2016 10:44 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Have y'all been visiting Colorado??? lol

-Sean

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Jenna said what!?

:)

On 2/17/2016 10:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Yes, but lacking a certain je ne sais quoi.

bp


On 2/17/2016 7:31 PM, George Skorup wrote:

+1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)

On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Very poetic.
*From:* Josh Luthman

*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one
flipper left and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
R201 is dual band and units available =)
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
> wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
>
wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't
work, a lot of cheap laptops, tablets and many
low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
>
wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the
indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
]
*On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
    
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment
with wood frame houses/other structures, it
helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on
the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so
that none of them overlap with your carefully
predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
>
wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
]
*On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
            *To:* af@afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent
amount of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all
the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or
similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees
and signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector
however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
>
wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going
through much more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
>
wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be
better?  I can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
]
*On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
  

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

Have y'all been visiting Colorado??? lol

-Sean

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, George Skorup  wrote:

> Jenna said what!?
>
> :)
>
> On 2/17/2016 10:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Yes, but lacking a certain je ne sais quoi.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/17/2016 7:31 PM, George Skorup wrote:
>
> +1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)
>
> On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Very poetic.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
> No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper left
> and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup"  > wrote:
>
>> Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?
>>
>> On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
>>
>> R201 is dual band and units available =)
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen <
>> dmilho...@wletc.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
>>> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke <
>>> 
>>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>>>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway" <
>>>> 
>>>> r...@triadwireless.net
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:
>>>>> 
>>>>> af-boun...@afmug.com
>>>>> ] *On Behalf Of
>>>>> *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame
>>>>> houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on
>>>>> the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
>>>>> your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" <
>>>>> 
>>>>> r...@triadwireless.net
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:
>>>>> 
>>>>> af-boun...@afmug.com
>>>>> ] *On Behalf Of
>>>>> *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within
>>>>> 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar 
>>>>> sized
>>>>> reflectors...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around
>>>>> -69 on both chains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" <
>>>>> af...@zirkel.us
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[George Skorup]

Jenna said what!?

:)

On 2/17/2016 10:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Yes, but lacking a certain je ne sais quoi.

bp


On 2/17/2016 7:31 PM, George Skorup wrote:

+1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)

On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Very poetic.
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper 
left and blind in one eye. Still no ETA.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
R201 is dual band and units available =)
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
 wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a
lot of cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid
range android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the
indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with
wood frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot
to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP
for each CPE location, so that none of them
overlap with your carefully predetermined 10 MHz
channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
        *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent
amount of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the
CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and
signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
 wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through
much more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
 wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I
can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine
tree nearby and an ohm meter, measure the
resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
probe into the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave
oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
years has shown that pine trees are worse than
others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
dipole with a termination resistor. That is really
going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on
some of their surfaces that operate by similar
principl

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Bill Prince]

Yes, but lacking a certain je ne sais quoi.

bp


On 2/17/2016 7:31 PM, George Skorup wrote:

+1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)

On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Very poetic.
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper 
left and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
R201 is dual band and units available =)
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
 wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a
lot of cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range
android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with
wood frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot
to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP
for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap
with your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
        *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount
of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and
signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
 wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much
more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
 wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I
can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine
tree nearby and an ohm meter, measure the
resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
probe into the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave
oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
years has shown that pine trees are worse than
others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
dipole with a termination resistor. That is really
going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on
some of their surfaces that operate by similar
principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

You're making me blush...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 17, 2016 10:32 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> +1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)
>
> On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Very poetic.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
> No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper left
> and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
>> Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?
>>
>> On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
>>
>> R201 is dual band and units available =)
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
>>> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>>>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame
>>>>> houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on
>>>>> the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
>>>>> your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within
>>>>> 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar 
>>>>> sized
>>>>> reflectors...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around
>>>>> -69 on both chains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>>>> of an aspen tree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>>>> the houses.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[George Skorup]

+1 Almost Steve Jones quality. :)

On 2/17/2016 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Very poetic.
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper 
left and blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
R201 is dual band and units available =)
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot
of cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range
android phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood
frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot to
choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP for
each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with
your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Eric
Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount
of trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and
signals right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"
 wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much
more than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I
can use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine
tree nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance
of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into the
interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave
oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
years has shown that pine trees are worse than
others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
dipole with a termination resistor. That is really
going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam o

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Ken Hohhof]

Very poetic.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 8:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper left and 
blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

  Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?


  On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land... 

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen  wrote:

  Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
  Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line. 



  On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote:

  Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap 
laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only. 

  On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  
wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to 
avoid 2.4GHz where possible.  



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame 
houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the 
home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your 
carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  
wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 
1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized 
reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right 
around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.  

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the 
side of an aspen tree.



can you set up some 900 test shots?  



On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
 wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz 
inside the houses.



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
        To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and 
an ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the 
probe into the interior of the thing.



I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of 
the RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 
10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle 
itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole 
with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.



Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their 
surfaces that operate by similar principles.  



From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

        To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is 
~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) 
are around the same 3 1/4 inch length  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa



so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF 
scattering/reflector ;-)



-Sean





On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  
wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are 
terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.



On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?



The length of the needles matter.  



From: Rory Conaway 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

    To: af@

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

No I mean they're on the back of a turtle who only has one flipper left and
blind in one eye.  Still no ETA.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 17, 2016 9:34 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?
>
> On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
>
> R201 is dual band and units available =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen 
> wrote:
>
>> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
>> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>
>> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
>>>> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
>>>> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
>>>> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
>>>> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
>>>> reflectors...
>>>>
>>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around
>>>> -69 on both chains.
>>>>
>>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>>> of an aspen tree.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>>> the houses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an
>>>> ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
>>>> probe into the interior of the thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the
>>>> RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past
>>>> 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the
>>>> needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like
>>>> a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
>>>> signal.
>>>>
&

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[George Skorup]

Wait.. what? Are they going to shit-can the R200?

On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of
cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android
phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood
frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose
the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP for each CPE
location, so that none of them overlap with your
carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of
trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals
right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more
than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>>
wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can
use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree
nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance of the
needle. Make sure you jam the probe into the interior of
the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave oven. But
anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 years has shown
that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is
acting like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That
is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of
their surfaces that operate by similar principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

        *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave
length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch). Ponderosa pine needles
(and many other pine needles) are around the same 3 1/4
inch length

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen
trees are terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown
 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David Milholen]

Seems that manufactures and the software developers are not on the same 
page. They are both trying to
one up each other on trying to make setup completely hands free. They 
need to just have a simple gui and roll

with it and quit trying to become a master domain and take over my laptop.


On 2/17/2016 7:22 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
At least Bluetooth will work better if you have no 2.4 GHz WiFi in the 
house.
I discovered yesterday I had to disable “Bluetooth Collaboration” on 
the WiFi card in a new laptop for it to even pair with a Bluetooth 
mouse.  That seems counter intuitive.  Seems like a collaboration 
feature should make them play nice, not fight to the death.

*From:* Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I understand guys.  I’ll work it out when I figure out what my radios are.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Also trying to get a good signal in the far reaches of some houses can 
be a lot more challenging at 5 GHz than 2.4 GHz.


*From:*Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:03 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap 
laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.


On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway" <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:


If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid 
2.4GHz where possible.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] 
*On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke

*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame 
houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel 
on the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that none of them 
overlap with your carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.


On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:


I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] 
*On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke

*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 
1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar 
sized reflectors...


I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around 
-69 on both chains.


Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:


I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side 
of an aspen tree.


can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:


So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside 
the houses.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] 
*On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown

*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an 
ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam 
the probe into the interior of the thing.


I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the 
RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the 
past 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if 
the needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is 
acting like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really 
going to suck up the signal.


Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their 
surfaces that operate by similar principles.


*From:*Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is 
~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch). Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine 
needles) are around the same 3 1/4 inch length 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa


so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF 
scattering/reflector ;-)


-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie <mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are 
t

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

Still waiting on cnMaestro myself...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:49 PM, David Milholen  wrote:

> R201P is available.. We have em. Our techs love em just for its simplicity
> on configuration.
>
>
> On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...
>
> R201 is dual band and units available =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen 
> wrote:
>
>> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
>> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>
>> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke < 
>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
>>>> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
>>>> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
>>>> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
>>>> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
>>>> reflectors...
>>>>
>>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around
>>>> -69 on both chains.
>>>>
>>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>>> of an aspen tree.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway <
>>>> r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>>> the houses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an
>>>> ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
>>>> probe into the interior of the thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the
>>>> RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past
>>>> 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the
>>>> needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like
>>>> a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David Milholen]

R201P is available.. We have em. Our techs love em just for its 
simplicity on configuration.



On 2/17/2016 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of
cheap laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android
phones are 2.4 only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor
devices to avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood
frame houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose
the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP for each CPE
location, so that none of them overlap with your
carefully predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
 wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of
trees within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are
nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals
right around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more
than the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>>
wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can
use 5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree
nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance of the
needle. Make sure you jam the probe into the interior of
the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle
absorbs some of the RF energy al la a microwave oven. But
anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 years has shown
that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is
acting like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That
is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of
their surfaces that operate by similar principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

        *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave
length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch). Ponderosa pine needles
(and many other pine needles) are around the same 3 1/4
inch length

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen
trees are terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

It's probably a sync protocol.  I'm guessing they copied the Rocket M2 GPS.

*ducks*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> At least Bluetooth will work better if you have no 2.4 GHz WiFi in the
> house.
>
> I discovered yesterday I had to disable “Bluetooth Collaboration” on the
> WiFi card in a new laptop for it to even pair with a Bluetooth mouse.  That
> seems counter intuitive.  Seems like a collaboration feature should make
> them play nice, not fight to the death.
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
> I understand guys.  I’ll work it out when I figure out what my radios are.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Also trying to get a good signal in the far reaches of some houses can be
> a lot more challenging at 5 GHz than 2.4 GHz.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:03 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops,
> tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
> 2.4GHz where possible.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
> reflectors...
>
> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69
> on both chains.
>
> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>
> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
> an aspen tree.
>
>
>
> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the
> houses.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
> into the interior of the thing.
>
>
>
> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
> signal.
>
>
>
> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
> that operate by similar principles.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>
>
>
> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Ken Hohhof]

At least Bluetooth will work better if you have no 2.4 GHz WiFi in the house.

I discovered yesterday I had to disable “Bluetooth Collaboration” on the WiFi 
card in a new laptop for it to even pair with a Bluetooth mouse.  That seems 
counter intuitive.  Seems like a collaboration feature should make them play 
nice, not fight to the death.


From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I understand guys.  I’ll work it out when I figure out what my radios are.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

Also trying to get a good signal in the far reaches of some houses can be a lot 
more challenging at 5 GHz than 2.4 GHz.

 

From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:03 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops, 
tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only. 

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz 
where possible.  

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other 
structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP 
for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully 
predetermined 10 MHz channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2 miles 
max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on 
both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.  

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of an 
aspen tree.

 

can you set up some 900 test shots?  

 

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

 

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

 

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.  

 

From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

 

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

 

-Sean

 

 

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

 

The length of the needles matter.  

 

From: Rory Conaway 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

 

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?

 

 

Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

602-426-0542

r...@triadwireless.net

www.triadwireless.net

 

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King

 




-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

R200 is 2.4 only and as of today in unknown status land...

R201 is dual band and units available =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, David Milholen  wrote:

> Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
> Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.
>
>
> On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/
>
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke < 
> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
>> laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
>> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
>>> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
>>> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
>>> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
>>> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
>>> reflectors...
>>>
>>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69
>>> on both chains.
>>>
>>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side
>>> of an aspen tree.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>> the houses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an
>>> ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
>>> probe into the interior of the thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the
>>> RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past
>>> 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the
>>> needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like
>>> a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
>>> signal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
>>> that operate by similar principles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
>>> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
>>> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David Milholen]

Dual band R200P.. One and done :)
Or if all wireless inside use E400 from Cnpilot line.


On 2/17/2016 7:05 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap
laptops, tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4
only.

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway" > wrote:

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to
avoid 2.4GHz where possible.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On
Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame
houses/other structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz
channel on the home WiFi AP for each CPE location, so that
none of them overlap with your carefully predetermined 10 MHz
channel.

On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"
> wrote:

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On
Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees
within 1-2 miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25
dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right
around -69 on both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.

On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" > wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than
the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
> wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use
5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On
Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby
and an ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle. Make
sure you jam the probe into the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs
some of the RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal
evidence over the past 10-15 years has shown that pine trees
are worse than others so if the needle itself has a fairly low
resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of
their surfaces that operate by similar principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett


*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

    *To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length
is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many
other pine needles) are around the same 3 1/4 inch length
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie
> wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees
are terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Ponderosa? Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

*From:*Rory Conaway


*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

    *To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*[AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net
*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in
moments of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at
times of challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King




-- 

-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>



--

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David Milholen]

I never thought of measuring one but Im game. Ill get pics :)


On 2/17/2016 3:57 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an 
ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam 
the probe into the interior of the thing.
I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the 
RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the 
past 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if 
the needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is 
acting like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really 
going to suck up the signal.
Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their 
surfaces that operate by similar principles.

*From:* Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is 
~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine 
needles) are around the same 3 1/4 inch length 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF 
scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie <mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are
terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
The length of the needles matter.
*From:* Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

**

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in
moments of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at
times of challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King




-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>



--

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

I understand guys.  I’ll work it out when I figure out what my radios are.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Also trying to get a good signal in the far reaches of some houses can be a lot 
more challenging at 5 GHz than 2.4 GHz.

From: Eric Kuhnke<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops, 
tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz 
where possible.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other 
structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP 
for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully 
predetermined 10 MHz channel.
On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2 miles 
max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on 
both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of an 
aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.

From: Sean Heskett<mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie 
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:
So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King




--
--
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com<http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David Milholen]

I have no luck with any low power unlicensed signal penetrate even a 
small branch of pine needles.

 Pine is the death of unlicensed anything.
Burn the forest down or clear cut. :)


On 2/17/2016 4:09 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:


So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside 
the houses.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an 
ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam 
the probe into the interior of the thing.


I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the 
RF energy al la a microwave oven. But anecdotal evidence over the past 
10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the 
needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting 
like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to 
suck up the signal.


Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their 
surfaces that operate by similar principles.


*From:*Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is 
~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine 
needles) are around the same 3 1/4 inch length 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa


so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF 
scattering/reflector ;-)


-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie <mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are 
terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Ponderosa? Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

*From:*Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*[AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types 
of trees?


*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of 
comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or 
controversy” – Martin Luther King





--

--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>



--

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Ken Hohhof]

Also trying to get a good signal in the far reaches of some houses can be a lot 
more challenging at 5 GHz than 2.4 GHz.

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 7:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops, 
tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only. 

On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz 
where possible.  



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other 
structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP 
for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully 
predetermined 10 MHz channel.

  On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2 miles 
max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

  I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on 
both chains.

  Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.  

  On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

  I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of an 
aspen tree.



  can you set up some 900 test shots?  



  On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.



  I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.



  Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.  



  From: Sean Heskett 

  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 
1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa



  so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)



  -Sean





  On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

  So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.



  On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?



  The length of the needles matter.  



  From: Rory Conaway 

  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?





  Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

  4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

  602-426-0542

  r...@triadwireless.net

  www.triadwireless.net



  “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort 
or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – 
Martin Luther King






  -- 

  -- 
  Sam Lambie
  Taosnet Wireless Tech.
  575-758-7598 Office
  www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

Not just cheep devices, PlayStation4 is 2.4 only :-/

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops,
> tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
> On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  > wrote:
>
>> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
>> 2.4GHz where possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Eric
>> Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
>> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
>> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
>> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" > > wrote:
>>
>> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Eric
>> Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
>> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
>> reflectors...
>>
>> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69
>> on both chains.
>>
>> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" > > wrote:
>>
>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
>> an aspen tree.
>>
>>
>>
>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway > > wrote:
>>
>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>> the houses.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>> McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
>> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
>> into the interior of the thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
>> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
>> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
>> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
>> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
>> signal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
>> that operate by similar principles.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
>> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
>> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>>
>>
>>
>> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
>> scattering/reflector ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie > > wrote:
>>
>> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are
>> terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown > > wrote:
>>
>> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>>
>>
>>
>> The length of the needles matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway
>> 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
>> trees?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net
>> *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
>> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Eric Kuhnke]

Until customers complain their stuff doesn't work, a lot of cheap laptops,
tablets and many low to mid range android phones are 2.4 only.
On Feb 17, 2016 4:55 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid
> 2.4GHz where possible.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
> structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
> AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
> predetermined 10 MHz channel.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
> reflectors...
>
> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69
> on both chains.
>
> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>
> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
> an aspen tree.
>
>
>
> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the
> houses.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
> into the interior of the thing.
>
>
>
> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
> signal.
>
>
>
> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
> that operate by similar principles.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>
>
>
> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible
> on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>
>
>
> The length of the needles matter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

If I do this, I’ll probably use 5Ghz for the indoor devices to avoid 2.4GHz 
where possible.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other 
structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi AP 
for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully 
predetermined 10 MHz channel.
On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2 miles 
max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on 
both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of an 
aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.

From: Sean Heskett<mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie 
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:
So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King




--
--
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com<http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Eric Kuhnke]

I should add that in a typical environment with wood frame houses/other
structures, it helps a lot to choose the 2.4 GHz channel on the home WiFi
AP for each CPE location, so that none of them overlap with your carefully
predetermined 10 MHz channel.
On Feb 17, 2016 3:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> 2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
> miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
> reflectors...
>
> I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69
> on both chains.
>
> Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
>
> On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>
> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
> an aspen tree.
>
>
>
> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the
> houses.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
> into the interior of the thing.
>
>
>
> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
> signal.
>
>
>
> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
> that operate by similar principles.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>
>
>
> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible
> on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>
>
>
> The length of the needles matter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

I may set up a test for this in couple weeks.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz


2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2 miles 
max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on 
both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of an 
aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.

From: Sean Heskett<mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie 
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:
So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King




--
--
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com<http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Eric Kuhnke]

2.4 in 10 MHz channels goes through a decent amount of trees within 1-2
miles max, if all the CPEs are nanobridge m5-25 dishes or similar sized
reflectors...

I've seen such setups with clients in trees and signals right around -69 on
both chains.

Not a lot of aggregate capacity per sector however.
On Feb 17, 2016 2:13 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
> an aspen tree.
>
> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>> the houses.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
>> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
>> into the interior of the thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
>> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
>> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
>> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
>> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
>> signal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
>> that operate by similar principles.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
>> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
>> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>>
>>
>>
>> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
>> scattering/reflector ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>>
>> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are
>> terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>>
>>
>>
>> The length of the needles matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
>> trees?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
>> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Bill Prince]

On a 10 MHz channel, getting 8X/6X, you should be getting in the 
neighborhood of 40 Mbps. More if you can eek out 8X/8X.


bp


On 2/17/2016 2:26 PM, timothy steele wrote:
What speeds are you looking for? You can get about 1meg client side of 
of the HAM band if you have the license
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:25 PM timothy steele 
mailto:timothy.pct...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:13 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than
the side of an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use
5GHz inside the houses.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree
nearby and an ohm meter, measure the resistance of the
needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into the interior of
the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs
some of the RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But
anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 years has shown
that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is
acting like a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is
really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of
their surfaces that operate by similar principles.

*From:*Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

    *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave
length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles
(and many other pine needles) are around the same 3 1/4
inch length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen
trees are terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Ponderosa? Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

*From:*Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>

*Sent:*Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM

    *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*[AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through
these types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in
moments of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at
times of challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King




-- 

-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[timothy steele]

What speeds are you looking for? You can get about 1meg client side of of
the HAM band if you have the license
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:25 PM timothy steele 
wrote:

>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:13 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
>> an aspen tree.
>>
>> can you set up some 900 test shots?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside
>>> the houses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an
>>> ohm meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the
>>> probe into the interior of the thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the
>>> RF energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past
>>> 10-15 years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the
>>> needle itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like
>>> a dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
>>> signal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
>>> that operate by similar principles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
>>> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
>>> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF
>>> scattering/reflector ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are
>>> terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The length of the needles matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
>>> trees?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>>
>>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>>
>>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>>
>>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>>
>>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>>> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
>>> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

I've never had any luck with 2.4 going through much more than the side of
an aspen tree.

can you set up some 900 test shots?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the
> houses.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm
> meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe
> into the interior of the thing.
>
>
>
> I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF
> energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15
> years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle
> itself has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a
> dipole with a termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the
> signal.
>
>
>
> Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces
> that operate by similar principles.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>
>
>
> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible
> on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>
>
>
> The length of the needles matter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

So given this scenario, would 2.4GHz be better?  I can use 5GHz inside the 
houses.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.

From: Sean Heskett<mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie 
mailto:samtaos...@gmail.com>> wrote:
So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King




--
--
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com<http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Chuck McCown]

I have not measured one, but if someone has a pine tree nearby and an ohm 
meter, measure the resistance of the needle.  Make sure you jam the probe into 
the interior of the thing.

I am guessing that the water content of the needle absorbs some of the RF 
energy al la a microwave oven.  But anecdotal evidence over the past 10-15 
years has shown that pine trees are worse than others so if the needle itself 
has a fairly low resistance, like 100 ohms, it is acting like a dipole with a 
termination resistor.  That is really going to suck up the signal.

Stealth aircraft have microwave absorbing foam on some of their surfaces that 
operate by similar principles.  

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3 1/4 
inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around the 
same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa


so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector ;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

  So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible on 
900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.


  On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of 
trees?





Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

602-426-0542

r...@triadwireless.net

www.triadwireless.net



“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort 
or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – 
Martin Luther King






  -- 

  -- 
  Sam Lambie
  Taosnet Wireless Tech.
  575-758-7598 Office
  www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Jaime Solorza]

I like yagisand Miyagi as well
On Feb 17, 2016 2:52 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Those are the worst for 900.
>
> *From:* Sam Lambie 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
> Those look like ponderosa trees to me.
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
>
>> How about compared to the legacy 900Mhz product how does it perform?
>>
>> Sean Heskett wrote:
>>
>>> those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles
>>> are very similar to the wave length.
>>>
>>> i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent
>>> (pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)
>>>
>>> if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is
>>> much shorter.
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway >> <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
>>> types of trees?
>>>
>>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*
>>>
>>> *4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>>
>>> *602-426-0542 *
>>>
>>> *r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*
>>>
>>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments
>>> of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of
>>> challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Chuck McCown]

yet...
stay tuned...

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 2:52 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

There isn't a good antenna option that's any less gain than the 12dbi yagis at 
this point anyway... there are some 10db panels out there, but nothing that's 
going to be practical to use with the 450i, so yes, yagis are necessary (but 
I'm sure there will eventually be 12ish-dbi panels available that should work 
just as well).


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  Can’t go above, park land.  A mile would actually be fine if that’s the case. 
 Are Yagi’s necessary for that distance?



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
  Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz



  those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are 
very similar to the wave length.



  i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent (pine 
trees will probably help the noise floor ;)



  if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is much 
shorter.  



  -sean





  On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?





  Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

  4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

  602-426-0542

  r...@triadwireless.net

  www.triadwireless.net



  “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort 
or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – 
Martin Luther King

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Chuck McCown]

Those are the worst for 900.

From: Sam Lambie 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Those look like ponderosa trees to me.


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Jay Weekley  wrote:

  How about compared to the legacy 900Mhz product how does it perform?

  Sean Heskett wrote:

those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are 
very similar to the wave length.

i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent 
(pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)

if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is much 
shorter.

-sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

**

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments
of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of
challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King








-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Mathew Howard]

There isn't a good antenna option that's any less gain than the 12dbi yagis
at this point anyway... there are some 10db panels out there, but nothing
that's going to be practical to use with the 450i, so yes, yagis are
necessary (but I'm sure there will eventually be 12ish-dbi panels available
that should work just as well).

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> Can’t go above, park land.  A mile would actually be fine if that’s the
> case.  Are Yagi’s necessary for that distance?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
>
> those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are
> very similar to the wave length.
>
>
>
> i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent
> (pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)
>
>
>
> if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is
> much shorter.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

also ever notice that the spokes on a 900Mhz yogi are about ~3 1/4 inches
long which cooincidentally is a 1/4 wavelength of 900Mhz ;)

-sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm
> (~3 1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are
> around the same 3 1/4 inch length
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa
>
> so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
> ;-)
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
>> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are
>> terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>>>
>>> The length of the needles matter.
>>>
>>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
>>> trees?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>>
>>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>>
>>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>>
>>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>>
>>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>>> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
>>> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

the wavelength of 900Mhz is ~33.3cm so a quarter wave length is ~8.33cm (~3
1/4 inch).  Ponderosa pine needles (and many other pine needles) are around
the same 3 1/4 inch length  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_ponderosa

so with water in the needles you have a big 900Mhz RF scattering/reflector
;-)

-Sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible
> on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>>
>> The length of the needles matter.
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>>
>>
>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
>> trees?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
>> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David]

Depending in the needle thickness and length they will act like tiny 
antennas which will lets say absorb a majority of the signal.

 I love my pines they even make cell signals invisible :)


On 02/17/2016 02:47 PM, Sam Lambie wrote:
So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are 
terrible on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
The length of the needles matter.
*From:* Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>*

*www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*

**

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments
of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of
challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King




--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[David]

About 40W Eirp :)


On 02/17/2016 01:51 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:


Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types 
of trees?


*Rory Conaway **� Triad Wireless �**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street � Phoenix � AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542*

*r...@triadwireless.net *

*www.triadwireless.net *

**

�The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of 
comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or 
controversy� � Martin Luther King

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Jon Langeler]

I'd estimate .25-.5mi if your tower is 30ft above the tree line. 1 mile of your 
100ft higher.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Feb 17, 2016, at 2:51 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
> 
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?
>  
>  
> Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
> 4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
> 602-426-0542
> r...@triadwireless.net
> www.triadwireless.net
>  
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort 
> or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – 
> Martin Luther King
>  
> <20160216_144101_resized_1.jpg>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sam Lambie]

So if you have a minute to please explain how evergreen trees are terrible
on 900 mhz, I would greatly appreciate it.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?
>
> The length of the needles matter.
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz
>
>
> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>*
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>



-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sam Lambie]

Those look like ponderosa trees to me.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> How about compared to the legacy 900Mhz product how does it perform?
>
> Sean Heskett wrote:
>
>> those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are
>> very similar to the wave length.
>>
>> i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent
>> (pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)
>>
>> if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is
>> much shorter.
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway > > wrote:
>>
>> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
>> types of trees?
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 *
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net *
>>
>> **
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments
>> of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of
>> challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Jay Weekley]

How about compared to the legacy 900Mhz product how does it perform?

Sean Heskett wrote:
those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles 
are very similar to the wave length.


i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is 
decent (pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)


if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is 
much shorter.


-sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway > wrote:


Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these
types of trees?

*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net *

*www.triadwireless.net *

**

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments
of comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of
challenge or controversy” – Martin Luther King

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

Good question.  I’ll have to ask.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.

From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Chuck McCown]

Ponderosa?  Fir?  Cedar?

The length of the needles matter.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?

 

 

Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

602-426-0542

r...@triadwireless.net

www.triadwireless.net

 

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King

 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

Can’t go above, park land.  A mile would actually be fine if that’s the case.  
Are Yagi’s necessary for that distance?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are very 
similar to the wave length.

i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent (pine 
trees will probably help the noise floor ;)

if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is much 
shorter.

-sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of trees?


Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net<http://www.triadwireless.net/>

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort or 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or controversy” – Martin 
Luther King

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450i 900Mhz

[Sean Heskett]

those are the worst kind of trees for 900Mhz because the pine needles are
very similar to the wave length.

i'd guess you could still go a mile or two if the noise floor is decent
(pine trees will probably help the noise floor ;)

if you can get up high above the trees then the path thru the trees is much
shorter.

-sean


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> Realistically, what kind of distances do you get through these types of
> trees?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
>
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
> comfort or convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge or
> controversy” – Martin Luther King
>
>
>