Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Wireless Administrator]

Here’s more information from one of the major water meter manufacturers:

 

https://www.neptunetg.com/globalassets/products/literature/12-ntg-242-faq-r450-system-09.12.pdf

 

Steve B.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:20 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

 

I believe public utilities do not have to pay for their licenses like 
commercial two way radio operators and others but I am not sure if that still 
holds.   I think there is a fee for license search and process but it should 
not be hat expensive for public utilities.   I remember a "discussion" I had 
with Comsearch over the price they charged for a frequency search.  We needed 
two additional 900MHz licenses for PTP SCADA backbone links and somewhere they 
mentioned spectrum analysis.   I asked if they sent someone to check out the 
spectrum in the paths of intended sites.  They said no.   So dumb me, asked how 
do you know which frequencies are clean if we are on the border with Mexico? 
Even our police department had issues with the Chihuahua Cattle Associations' 
system for a week a few years back and so did our military with an STL shot in 
the 230MHz range across border.   Never got an answer.




Jaime Solorza

Wireless Systems Architect

915-861-1390

 

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:

Cool thanks for all the tips and resources guys.  They are amicable to working 
with us (they don't want any bad press either) so we should be able to work out 
a solution.

 

I've also forwarded some contacts for license coordinators.

 

Thanks guys!  Luckily 900mhz is less than 1% of our customer base.  But for 
that 1% it's all they've got for getting Internet.

 

-Sean 

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Travis Allen <tra...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote:

Sean,


One of our local utilities uses licensed 220mhz for bh, but still uses 900mhz 
for meter to meter and meter to Collection point communication.  It does cut 
down on some of the noise though this way.  Most of the utilities around us 
monitor through their own wires, no noise that way.  I understand that the data 
rate is really slow, just a few hundred bits per second, but they don't need a 
ton of speed.  


We have two utilities using 900mhz in our service area, one monitors their 
meters every hour!  And one monitors at 9am 12pm and 5pm.  The second one is 
much better for us, much less noise.  They can make that choice so if they have 
to use 900mhz, try to get them to not monitor during your busy time for 
residential(after 5pm).

 

 

Travis Allen
Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
totalhighspeed.com
417-851-1107

 

  _  

From: "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us>
To: af@afmug.com, memb...@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 3:05:56 PM
Subject: [WISPA Members] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

 

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available and 
how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that want 
to do advanced metering.

 

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

 

Thanks,

Sean

 


___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Jaime Solorza]

I believe public utilities do not have to pay for their licenses like
commercial two way radio operators and others but I am not sure if that
still holds.   I think there is a fee for license search and process but it
should not be hat expensive for public utilities.   I remember a
"discussion" I had with Comsearch over the price they charged for a
frequency search.  We needed two additional 900MHz licenses for PTP SCADA
backbone links and somewhere they mentioned spectrum analysis.   I asked if
they sent someone to check out the spectrum in the paths of intended
sites.  They said no.   So dumb me, asked how do you know which frequencies
are clean if we are on the border with Mexico? Even our police department
had issues with the Chihuahua Cattle Associations' system for a week a few
years back and so did our military with an STL shot in the 230MHz range
across border.   Never got an answer.

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Cool thanks for all the tips and resources guys.  They are amicable to
> working with us (they don't want any bad press either) so we should be able
> to work out a solution.
>
> I've also forwarded some contacts for license coordinators.
>
> Thanks guys!  Luckily 900mhz is less than 1% of our customer base.  But
> for that 1% it's all they've got for getting Internet.
>
> -Sean
>
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Travis Allen 
> wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>> One of our local utilities uses licensed 220mhz for bh, but still uses
>> 900mhz for meter to meter and meter to Collection point communication.  It
>> does cut down on some of the noise though this way.  Most of the utilities
>> around us monitor through their own wires, no noise that way.  I understand
>> that the data rate is really slow, just a few hundred bits per second, but
>> they don't need a ton of speed.
>>
>> We have two utilities using 900mhz in our service area, one monitors
>> their meters every hour!  And one monitors at 9am 12pm and 5pm.  The second
>> one is much better for us, much less noise.  They can make that choice so
>> if they have to use 900mhz, try to get them to not monitor during your busy
>> time for residential(after 5pm).
>>
>>
>> Travis Allen
>> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
>> totalhighspeed.com
>> 417-851-1107
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Sean Heskett" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com, memb...@wispa.org
>> *Sent: *Monday, April 25, 2016 3:05:56 PM
>> *Subject: *[WISPA Members] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>>
>> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
>> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
>> companies that want to do advanced metering.
>>
>> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
>> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
>>
>> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Members mailing list
>> memb...@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Sean Heskett]

Cool thanks for all the tips and resources guys.  They are amicable to
working with us (they don't want any bad press either) so we should be able
to work out a solution.

I've also forwarded some contacts for license coordinators.

Thanks guys!  Luckily 900mhz is less than 1% of our customer base.  But for
that 1% it's all they've got for getting Internet.

-Sean

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Travis Allen 
wrote:

> Sean,
>
> One of our local utilities uses licensed 220mhz for bh, but still uses
> 900mhz for meter to meter and meter to Collection point communication.  It
> does cut down on some of the noise though this way.  Most of the utilities
> around us monitor through their own wires, no noise that way.  I understand
> that the data rate is really slow, just a few hundred bits per second, but
> they don't need a ton of speed.
>
> We have two utilities using 900mhz in our service area, one monitors their
> meters every hour!  And one monitors at 9am 12pm and 5pm.  The second one
> is much better for us, much less noise.  They can make that choice so if
> they have to use 900mhz, try to get them to not monitor during your busy
> time for residential(after 5pm).
>
>
> Travis Allen
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> totalhighspeed.com
> 417-851-1107
>
> --
> *From: *"Sean Heskett"  >
> *To: *af@afmug.com ,
> memb...@wispa.org 
> *Sent: *Monday, April 25, 2016 3:05:56 PM
> *Subject: *[WISPA Members] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>
> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
> companies that want to do advanced metering.
>
> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
>
>
> ___
> Members mailing list
> memb...@wispa.org 
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Jerry Head]

Second paragraph under "substantial service"
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp;ATTACHMENTS=c3vsXfYWpfTN7PLvH3DjhTjW1PxLsxh4QWNht2Qr19RQSDrnZp7K!69931718!-248951168?applType=search=1971335529=18622404=applAttach

On 4/25/2016 4:55 PM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of 
utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way 
console-to-controller or controller-to-controller audio links (older 
systems), but I was thinking all the PTMP systems (where each node is 
a transmitter) was all unlicensed, like for meter reading.


*_Jesse DuPont_*

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz 
licensed stuff in the FCC ULS?




On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's
IC did.

If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or
3.5.  There may be additional options.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett 
wrote:

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed
spectrum is available and how to obtain the spectrum for
electrical and water utility companies that want to do
advanced metering.

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they
stated that they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

Thanks,
Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Ken Hohhof]

The cellcos will happily sell them meter reading in the cloud.
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/verizon-targets-utilities-smart-energy-service-platform/2015-07-29


From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

Some of the big players in the water metering slave own a national license they 
bought from some paging providers, I think. I know the provider we bought our 
system from used 901 and 929. I could findor if you really want to know. 
Or digital systems operate at 9600 baud, 6.25 equivalency or TDMA 2 slot 12.5 
KHz. The radios are sensitive to -127db. ERP can be hundred of watts on the 
repeater side depending. 

If the do decide to get frequencies down in that rang go UHF and license them 
FB8. I doubt they need the extra rangeVHF would lemme but the meters are 
sitting on the ground so penetration will be important. They should run 
propagation  studies to decide. 



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 7:08 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  Maybe we need to listen to our neighbors up north:
  http://urgentcomm.com/policy_and_law/news/smart-grid-spectrum-20090617



  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 5:30 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

  Okay...what do you need SCADA or AMR? Check this out and get some ideasI 
doubt they can't find licensed bands.  
  http://msps.com/aclara-automation


  On Apr 25, 2016 3:55 PM, "Jesse DuPont" <jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:


>


  > Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of 
utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way console-to-controller or 
controller-to-controller audio links (older systems), but I was thinking all 
the PTMP systems (where each node is a transmitter) was all unlicensed, like 
for meter reading.
  >
  > Jesse DuPont
  >
  > Network Architect


  > email:mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net


  > Celerity Networks LLC
  >
  > Celerity Broadband LLC
  > Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  >
  > Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  >


  > On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:


>>


  >> Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz licensed 
stuff in the FCC ULS?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman 
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:


>>>


  >>> There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC did.
  >>>
  >>> If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.  
There may be additional options.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Josh Luthman
  >>> Office: 937-552-2340
  >>> Direct: 937-552-2343
  >>> 1100 Wayne St
  >>> Suite 1337
  >>> Troy, OH 45373
  >>>
  >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:


>>>>


  >>>> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is 
available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility 
companies that want to do advanced metering.
  >>>>
  >>>> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that 
they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
  >>>>
  >>>> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
  >>>>
  >>>> Thanks,
  >>>> Sean
  >>>>
  >>>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Lewis Bergman]

Some of the big players in the water metering slave own a national license
they bought from some paging providers, I think. I know the provider we
bought our system from used 901 and 929. I could findor if you really want
to know.
Or digital systems operate at 9600 baud, 6.25 equivalency or TDMA 2 slot
12.5 KHz. The radios are sensitive to -127db. ERP can be hundred of watts
on the repeater side depending.

If the do decide to get frequencies down in that rang go UHF and license
them FB8. I doubt they need the extra rangeVHF would lemme but the meters
are sitting on the ground so penetration will be important. They should run
propagation  studies to decide.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 7:08 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Maybe we need to listen to our neighbors up north:
> http://urgentcomm.com/policy_and_law/news/smart-grid-spectrum-20090617
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 5:30 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>
>
> Okay...what do you need SCADA or AMR? Check this out and get some
> ideasI doubt they can't find licensed bands.
> http://msps.com/aclara-automation
>
> On Apr 25, 2016 3:55 PM, "Jesse DuPont" <jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of
> utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way
> console-to-controller or controller-to-controller audio links (older
> systems), but I was thinking all the PTMP systems (where each node is a
> transmitter) was all unlicensed, like for meter reading.
> >
> *> Jesse DuPont*
> >
> > Network Architect
>
> > email:mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> <jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
>
>
> > Celerity Networks LLC
> >
> > Celerity Broadband LLC
> > Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
> >
> > Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> >
>
> > On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz
> licensed stuff in the FCC ULS?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>> There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC
> did.
> >>>
> >>> If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.
> There may be additional options.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Josh Luthman
> >>> Office: 937-552-2340
> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >>> 1100 Wayne St
> >>> Suite 1337
> >>> Troy, OH 45373
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
> companies that want to do advanced metering.
> >>>>
> >>>> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated
> that they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Sean
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe we need to listen to our neighbors up north:
http://urgentcomm.com/policy_and_law/news/smart-grid-spectrum-20090617



From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 5:30 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

Okay...what do you need SCADA or AMR? Check this out and get some ideasI 
doubt they can't find licensed bands.  
http://msps.com/aclara-automation


On Apr 25, 2016 3:55 PM, "Jesse DuPont" <jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:


  >


> Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of 
> utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way console-to-controller 
> or controller-to-controller audio links (older systems), but I was thinking 
> all the PTMP systems (where each node is a transmitter) was all unlicensed, 
> like for meter reading.
>
> Jesse DuPont
>
> Network Architect
> email:mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:


  >>


>> Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz licensed 
>> stuff in the FCC ULS?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
>> wrote:


  >>>


>>> There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC did.
>>>
>>> If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.  There 
>>> may be additional options.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:


  >>>>


>>>> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is 
>>>> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility 
>>>> companies that want to do advanced metering.
>>>>
>>>> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that 
>>>> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
>>>>
>>>> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Sean
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Jaime Solorza]

Okay...what do you need SCADA or AMR? Check this out and get some
ideasI doubt they can't find licensed bands.
http://msps.com/aclara-automation

On Apr 25, 2016 3:55 PM, "Jesse DuPont" 
wrote:

>

> Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of
utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way
console-to-controller or controller-to-controller audio links (older
systems), but I was thinking all the PTMP systems (where each node is a
transmitter) was all unlicensed, like for meter reading.
>
*> Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

>>

>> Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz
licensed stuff in the FCC ULS?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman <
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

>>>

>>> There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC
did.
>>>
>>> If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.
There may be additional options.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:



 can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
companies that want to do advanced metering.

 our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated
that they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

 Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

 Thanks,
 Sean

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
Are you sure those are PTMP (multiple transmitters)? I know a lot of
utilities will use licensed mid-band 900 MHz for 2-way
console-to-controller or controller-to-controller audio links (older
systems), but I was thinking all the PTMP systems (where each node
is a transmitter) was all unlicensed, like for meter reading.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 4/25/16 3:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:


  Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and
OR with 900 MHz licensed stuff in the FCC ULS?


  
  
On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh
  Luthman 
  wrote:
  
There isn't a band allocated to them in the
  US.  I think Canada's IC did.
  
  
  If they really want a licensed band you might look in
to 2.5 or 3.5.  There may be additional options.


  

  


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  

  

  
  On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05
PM, Sean Heskett 
wrote:

  can anyone point me in the
direction of what licensed spectrum is available
and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical
and water utility companies that want to do
advanced metering.


our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz
  system and they stated that they couldn't get
  any licensed spectrum.


Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!


Thanks,
Sean


  

  
  

  

  


  


  

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Eric Kuhnke]

Then why am I finding utility companies in WA and OR with 900 MHz licensed
stuff in the FCC ULS?



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC did.
>
> If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.
> There may be additional options.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
>> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
>> companies that want to do advanced metering.
>>
>> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
>> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
>>
>> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Jaime Solorza]

Look up MAS most utilities use 928. to 960. in FDD
configurations...there are VHF,  200,UHF, 900 and 1.4GHz many use  3.65
now.
On Apr 25, 2016 2:45 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> The RTK (precision farming) systems around here are tending to move from
> 900 MHz to licensed 450 MHz for exactly the reasons people have mentioned.
> Greater range and reliability.  With 900 MHz you don’t pay for the license,
> but it costs you in needing repeater sites or having dead spots.  In
> addition to not fighting interference in a polluted unlicensed band, half
> the frequency means better penetration through foliage and around obstacles
> like buildings and hills.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>
> Once upon a time there were UHF splinter channels in the 460 MHz range I
> think.  Every easy to license.
> I used to run 19.2 kbps on them with analog modems and low modulation
> index FM.  Worked like a champ.
> I would have to open up and linearize the mod/demod portions of the
> radio.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 2:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>
>
> PG went with 900. However, a conversation with a PG rep recently, I
> found that they decided to actually buy a license down in the 400 MHz
> region because of the range problems they are having with 900 MHz. They
> have a hub on the street near our house, and they are still reading the
> meters by hand because 900 won't reach the hub.
>
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 4/25/2016 1:19 PM, John Woodfield wrote:
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> They will implement 900mhz.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Sean Heskett" mailto:af...@zirkel.us <af...@zirkel.us>
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06pm
> To: mailto:af@afmug.com <af@afmug.com> mailto:af@afmug.com <af@afmug.com>,
> mailto:memb...@wispa.org <memb...@wispa.org> mailto:memb...@wispa.org
> <memb...@wispa.org>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies
>
> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
> companies that want to do advanced metering.
> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
> Thanks,
> Sean
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Ken Hohhof]

The RTK (precision farming) systems around here are tending to move from 900 
MHz to licensed 450 MHz for exactly the reasons people have mentioned.  Greater 
range and reliability.  With 900 MHz you don’t pay for the license, but it 
costs you in needing repeater sites or having dead spots.  In addition to not 
fighting interference in a polluted unlicensed band, half the frequency means 
better penetration through foliage and around obstacles like buildings and 
hills.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

Once upon a time there were UHF splinter channels in the 460 MHz range I think. 
 Every easy to license.  
I used to run 19.2 kbps on them with analog modems and low modulation index FM. 
 Worked like a champ.  
I would have to open up and linearize the mod/demod portions of the radio.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

PG went with 900. However, a conversation with a PG rep recently, I found 
that they decided to actually buy a license down in the 400 MHz region because 
of the range problems they are having with 900 MHz. They have a hub on the 
street near our house, and they are still reading the meters by hand because 
900 won't reach the hub.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 4/25/2016 1:19 PM, John Woodfield wrote:

  Good luck.



  They will implement 900mhz.







  John Woodfield, President

  Delmarva WiFi Inc.

  410-870-WiFi



  -Original Message-
  From: "Sean Heskett" mailto:af...@zirkel.us
  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06pm
  To: mailto:af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com, mailto:memb...@wispa.org 
mailto:memb...@wispa.org
  Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies



  can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available 
and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that 
want to do advanced metering. 
  our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
  Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
  Thanks,
  Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Chuck McCown]

Once upon a time there were UHF splinter channels in the 460 MHz range I think. 
 Every easy to license.  
I used to run 19.2 kbps on them with analog modems and low modulation index FM. 
 Worked like a champ.  
I would have to open up and linearize the mod/demod portions of the radio.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

PG went with 900. However, a conversation with a PG rep recently, I found 
that they decided to actually buy a license down in the 400 MHz region because 
of the range problems they are having with 900 MHz. They have a hub on the 
street near our house, and they are still reading the meters by hand because 
900 won't reach the hub.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 4/25/2016 1:19 PM, John Woodfield wrote:

  Good luck.



  They will implement 900mhz.







  John Woodfield, President

  Delmarva WiFi Inc.

  410-870-WiFi



  -Original Message-
  From: "Sean Heskett" mailto:af...@zirkel.us
  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06pm
  To: mailto:af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com, mailto:memb...@wispa.org 
mailto:memb...@wispa.org
  Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies



  can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available 
and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that 
want to do advanced metering. 
  our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
  Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
  Thanks,
  Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Bill Prince]

PG went with 900. However, a conversation with a PG rep recently, I 
found that they decided to actually buy a license down in the 400 MHz 
region because of the range problems they are having with 900 MHz. They 
have a hub on the street near our house, and they are still reading the 
meters by hand because 900 won't reach the hub.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 4/25/2016 1:19 PM, John Woodfield wrote:


Good luck.

They will implement 900mhz.

John Woodfield, President

Delmarva WiFi Inc.

410-870-WiFi



-Original Message-
From: "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06pm
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>, "memb...@wispa.org" <memb...@wispa.org>
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is 
available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water 
utility companies that want to do advanced metering.
our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated 
that they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
Thanks,
Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[John Woodfield]

Good luck.
 
They will implement 900mhz.
 
 
 
John Woodfield, President
Delmarva WiFi Inc.
410-870-WiFi


-Original Message-
From: "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06pm
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>, "memb...@wispa.org" <memb...@wispa.org>
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies



can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available and 
how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that want 
to do advanced metering.
our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
Thanks,
Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Hardy, Tim]

Sean,

You’re probably looking at the MAS (Multiple Address System) band that is 
addressed under 101 Subpart O (Rule Sections 101.1301 – 101.1333).  Call our 
customer service number if you need additional information.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available and 
how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that want 
to do advanced metering.

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

Thanks,
Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Brian Webster]

Find out what bandwidth they really need for the meter reading system. There 
are plenty of narrowband UHF and VHF channels they could get and they should be 
able to get speeds up to 9600 baud on those channels. This may mean they need 
to choose a different equipment vendor because of the radio units. I find most 
utility companies are being led by the sales pitches and being told what they 
should have rather than really know what they need for bandwidth and the number 
of times per day they should poll the devices. If they also understood how many 
fewer base stations they would need by using the lower frequencies and narrow 
band equipment the coverage areas are much larger. Two way radio systems for 
data can operate easily down to -116 dBm for the slow data rates. Compare that 
to probably not getting anything functioning reliably below -80 dBm in the 900 
band and you can see why the footprint for each base station would be so large. 
Tree losses at those lower bands are so much less as well.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

 <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

 

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available and 
how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that want 
to do advanced metering.

 

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

 

Thanks,

Sean

 

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Josh Luthman]

There isn't a band allocated to them in the US.  I think Canada's IC did.

If they really want a licensed band you might look in to 2.5 or 3.5.  There
may be additional options.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is
> available and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility
> companies that want to do advanced metering.
>
> our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
> they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Wireless Administrator]

I think 450mhz is available to them.

 

Steve B.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

 

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available and 
how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies that want 
to do advanced metering.

 

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that they 
couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

 

Thanks,

Sean

 

[AFMUG] Licensed spectrum for utility companies

[Sean Heskett]

can anyone point me in the direction of what licensed spectrum is available
and how to obtain the spectrum for electrical and water utility companies
that want to do advanced metering.

our local co-op is about to deploy a 900Mhz system and they stated that
they couldn't get any licensed spectrum.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

Thanks,
Sean