Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

Comcast has been embroiled in litigation for many years over their use of 
contractors, so it’s not like they have been or are getting away with anything.

However, you’ve hit the nail on the head: for the most part, Comcast hires 
subcontractors.  The “Comcast contractors” you see are employees of those subs. 
 That STILL doesn’t get Comcast off the hook for everything that the sub does 
(or doesn’t) do, though.  Even if you aren’t THE employer, you can still be 
responsible as AN employer.  It is possible to be employed by more than one 
entity.  In other words:

Comcast – Subcontractor X – Some Guy

Let’s say that there’s a dispute between Some Guy and Subcontractor X about 
wage and hour issues.  To use a common example, Some Guy doesn’t get paid 
enough or on time by Subcontractor X because Subcontractor X runs short on 
cash.  Some Guy not only has a remedy against Subcontractor X (obviously), but 
could also seek a remedy from Comcast directly, if Some Guy can show that 
Comcast was also his employer under the FLSA and associated case law.

This is part of the reason why I say that anyone who is doing work for your 
business could be your employee.  Having a separate corporation is one of 
approximately twenty different factors, none of which are dispositive on their 
own.

Doug


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 2:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I find one of the toughest things with contractors is getting them to schedule 
their own time.  They may work for several companies, have their own vehicles 
and tools, but they don’t want to call the customer and set up an appointment.

And companies that use contractors extensively (cough, cough ... Comcast) 
obviously don’t have their contractors setting up customer appointments, they 
dictate every aspect of their work.  I don’t know how they get away with it.  
Perhaps they are paying a company that in turn hires subcontractors or 
something like that.  But if you’ve ever had a Comcast Business install done, 
you will have a parade of contractors show up ... the guy with the tape 
measure, the guy with the shovel, the guy with the drill, the guy with the reel 
of coax cable, the guy with the modem, etc.  Only the last one is likely to be 
a Comcast employee, and I’m not so sure about him, but he’s the only one with 
an Xfinity truck and not a magnetic “Comcast contractor” sign slapped on the 
side of his vehicle.


From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:01 PM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

FedEx has essentially had their entire business model upended with the 
decisions about contractors.  That underscores the seriousness about doing 
something about these issues.  If you have people that do work for your 
business and they are not employees, take 20-30 minutes and invest in an hour 
or two of an attorney’s time to find out whether you have an issue.  This isn’t 
something that has to derail your whole business or result in massive 
liability.  Be proactive.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Even someone as big as FedEx is in serious trouble about their subcontractor 
people:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/07/3576714/fedex-driver-misclassification-kansas/

Travis
On 10/24/2014 10:21 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than anyone 
else, but it’s a hoot.

It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a frivolous or 
meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one with merit.  In this 
situation, failing to pay minimum wage and overtime is a matter of facts: 
either you did and you can prove it or you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook 
for substantial damages and plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier 
to deal with this on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly 
now will help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.

Doug




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take the case 
on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court anyway.  I think 
some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they actually had to go to trial 
rather than just send threatening letters.

There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in Chicago 
(specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that runs radio ads 
telling you to ask your law firm when

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

I find one of the toughest things with contractors is getting them to schedule 
their own time.  They may work for several companies, have their own vehicles 
and tools, but they don’t want to call the customer and set up an appointment.

And companies that use contractors extensively (cough, cough ... Comcast) 
obviously don’t have their contractors setting up customer appointments, they 
dictate every aspect of their work.  I don’t know how they get away with it.  
Perhaps they are paying a company that in turn hires subcontractors or 
something like that.  But if you’ve ever had a Comcast Business install done, 
you will have a parade of contractors show up ... the guy with the tape 
measure, the guy with the shovel, the guy with the drill, the guy with the reel 
of coax cable, the guy with the modem, etc.  Only the last one is likely to be 
a Comcast employee, and I’m not so sure about him, but he’s the only one with 
an Xfinity truck and not a magnetic “Comcast contractor” sign slapped on the 
side of his vehicle.


From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af 
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:01 PM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

FedEx has essentially had their entire business model upended with the 
decisions about contractors.  That underscores the seriousness about doing 
something about these issues.  If you have people that do work for your 
business and they are not employees, take 20-30 minutes and invest in an hour 
or two of an attorney’s time to find out whether you have an issue.  This isn’t 
something that has to derail your whole business or result in massive 
liability.  Be proactive.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

 

Even someone as big as FedEx is in serious trouble about their subcontractor 
people:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/07/3576714/fedex-driver-misclassification-kansas/

Travis

On 10/24/2014 10:21 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:

  I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than anyone 
else, but it’s a hoot.

   

  It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a frivolous or 
meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one with merit.  In this 
situation, failing to pay minimum wage and overtime is a matter of facts: 
either you did and you can prove it or you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook 
for substantial damages and plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier 
to deal with this on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly 
now will help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.

   

  Doug

   

   

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

   

  Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

   

  You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take the 
case on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court anyway.  I 
think some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they actually had to go to trial 
rather than just send threatening letters.

   

  There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in Chicago 
(specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that runs radio ads 
telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time they actually litigated 
a case in front of a jury.

  http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio

   

   

  From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af 

  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM

  To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

   

  I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners who are 
trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the lawsuit they 
just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is always easier, faster, 
and less expensive.

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

  Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

  Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
  >
  >
  > Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your 
  > installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
  >
  > Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re 
  > paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
  > etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely 
  > betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice 
  > come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If 
  > you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are 
  > that serious.
  >
  > *From:*A

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

FedEx has essentially had their entire business model upended with the 
decisions about contractors.  That underscores the seriousness about doing 
something about these issues.  If you have people that do work for your 
business and they are not employees, take 20-30 minutes and invest in an hour 
or two of an attorney’s time to find out whether you have an issue.  This isn’t 
something that has to derail your whole business or result in massive 
liability.  Be proactive.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Even someone as big as FedEx is in serious trouble about their subcontractor 
people:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/07/3576714/fedex-driver-misclassification-kansas/

Travis
On 10/24/2014 10:21 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than anyone 
else, but it’s a hoot.

It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a frivolous or 
meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one with merit.  In this 
situation, failing to pay minimum wage and overtime is a matter of facts: 
either you did and you can prove it or you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook 
for substantial damages and plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier 
to deal with this on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly 
now will help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.

Doug




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take the case 
on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court anyway.  I think 
some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they actually had to go to trial 
rather than just send threatening letters.

There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in Chicago 
(specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that runs radio ads 
telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time they actually litigated 
a case in front of a jury.
http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio


From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners who are 
trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the lawsuit they 
just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is always easier, faster, 
and less expensive.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely
> betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt
> cordless drill on top of the chimney. I asked the owner if it was
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com%20%0b>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Even someone as big as FedEx is in serious trouble about their 
subcontractor people:


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/07/3576714/fedex-driver-misclassification-kansas/

Travis

On 10/24/2014 10:21 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:


I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than 
anyone else, but it’s a hoot.


It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a 
frivolous or meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one 
with merit.  In this situation, failing to pay minimum wage and 
overtime is a matter of facts: either you did and you can prove it or 
you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook for substantial damages and 
plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier to deal with this 
on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly now will 
help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.


Doug

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take 
the case on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court 
anyway.  I think some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they 
actually had to go to trial rather than just send threatening letters.


There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in 
Chicago (specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that 
runs radio ads telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time 
they actually litigated a case in front of a jury.


http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio

*From:*Hass, Douglas A. via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Sent:*Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM

*To:*mailto:af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners 
who are trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the 
lawsuit they just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is 
always easier, faster, and less expensive.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely
> betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt
> cordless drill on top of the chimney. I asked the owner if it was
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com%20%0b>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and
> deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the
> shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I
> should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under
> 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen
> again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store
> and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits,
> zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than anyone 
else, but it’s a hoot.

It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a frivolous or 
meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one with merit.  In this 
situation, failing to pay minimum wage and overtime is a matter of facts: 
either you did and you can prove it or you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook 
for substantial damages and plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier 
to deal with this on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly 
now will help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.

Doug




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take the case 
on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court anyway.  I think 
some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they actually had to go to trial 
rather than just send threatening letters.

There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in Chicago 
(specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that runs radio ads 
telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time they actually litigated 
a case in front of a jury.
http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio


From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners who are 
trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the lawsuit they 
just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is always easier, faster, 
and less expensive.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely
> betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt
> cordless drill on top of the chimney. I asked the owner if it was
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com%20%0b>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and
> deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the
> shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I
> should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under
> 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen
> again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store
> and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits,
> zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a
> pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners
> pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you
> real money, youre not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when
> we waste

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take the case 
on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court anyway.  I think 
some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they actually had to go to trial 
rather than just send threatening letters.

There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in Chicago 
(specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that runs radio ads 
telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time they actually litigated 
a case in front of a jury.
http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio


From: Hass, Douglas A. via Af 
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners who are 
trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the lawsuit they 
just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is always easier, faster, 
and less expensive.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your 
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re 
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely 
> betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice 
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If 
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are 
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum 
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them 
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt 
> cordless drill on top of the chimney. I asked the owner if it was 
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he 
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong 
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my 
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower 
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but 
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of 
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and 
> deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the 
> shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I 
> should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under
> 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen 
> again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store 
> and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, 
> zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a 
> pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners 
> pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you 
> real money, youre not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when 
> we waste your money we are accountable for the consequences, either 
> financial or job applications. Not holding us accountable creates a 
> dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 300 dollar 
> ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k radio?
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and 
> the creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees 
> who are not our brothers). Thanks Josh and Travis.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the 
> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>
> You break it, you bought it.
>
> - Original Messa

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

I have to do something!  :-)  I hate getting calls from business owners who are 
trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the lawsuit they 
just got.  Dealing with these things on the front end is always easier, faster, 
and less expensive.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet.  Your 
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re 
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list.  You’re quite likely 
> betting your company’s future existence on it.  Some rolls of the dice 
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation.  Many times they don’t. If 
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP.  Wage and hour mistakes are 
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum 
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them 
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt 
> cordless drill on top of the chimney.  I asked the owner if it was 
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he 
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong 
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my 
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower 
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but 
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of 
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and 
> deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the 
> shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I 
> should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under
> 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen 
> again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store 
> and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, 
> zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a 
> pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners 
> pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you 
> real money, youre not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when 
> we waste your money we are accountable for the consequences, either 
> financial or job applications. Not holding us accountable creates a 
> dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 300 dollar 
> ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k radio?
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and 
> the creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees 
> who are not our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the 
> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>
> You break it, you bought it.
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:*Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
> <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>
> *Sent:*Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is
> your blood.  Sh!t happens
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>
> Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial
> responsible for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>   

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Jay Weekley via Af]

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:



Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet.  Your 
installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J


Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re 
paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099, 
etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list.  You’re quite likely 
betting your company’s future existence on it.  Some rolls of the dice 
come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation.  Many times they don’t. If 
you get a claim, you could lose your WISP.  Wage and hour mistakes are 
that serious.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them 
bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them. 
Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt 
cordless drill on top of the chimney.  I asked the owner if it was 
his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he 
left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.


On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong 
full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my 
employer to fire me.


I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower 
but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but 
the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of 
overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.


I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and 
deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the 
shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I 
should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under 
5 years.


I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen 
again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store 
and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.


There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, 
zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a 
pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners 
pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you 
real money, youre not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when 
we waste your money we are accountable for the consequences, either 
financial or job applications. Not holding us accountable creates a 
dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 300 dollar 
ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k radio?


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and 
the creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees 
who are not our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the 
ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.


You break it, you bought it.

- Original Message -

*From:*Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

    *Sent:*Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is
your blood.  Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial
responsible for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or
loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder
and it fell out of the truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back,
just curious how everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.

�



--

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925




*Douglas A. Hass*
Associate
312.786.6502
d...@franczek.com

*Fr

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

The statute of limitations on claims like these runs for 10 years in many 
states, so even ancient history can come back to haunt you sometimes.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 9:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Maybe, but of course this was between 11 and 5 years ago.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet.  Your installers were 
quite likely employees, not contractors.  ☺

Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re paying on 
a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099, etc.) and NOT as an 
employee, hit me up off list.  You’re quite likely betting your company’s 
future existence on it.  Some rolls of the dice come out o.k., as with 
Cameron’s situation.  Many times they don’t.  If you get a claim, you could 
lose your WISP.  Wage and hour mistakes are that serious.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Cameron Crum via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment


When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them bring their 
own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them. Then, while changing a 
radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt cordless drill on top of the 
chimney.  I asked the owner if it was his, and he said no. I asked my installer 
the next day. Turns out he left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong full day 
install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my employer to fire me.

I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower but never 
disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but the boss wrote it 
off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of overtime to offset the cost. I 
was not happy I wasnt held accountable.

I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and deduct it 
from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the shelf in the van 
where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I should have been fired at 
this point, three substantial items in under 5 years.

I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen again, I 
didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store and bough a 
ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.

There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, zip ties, 
etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a pretty valid reason 
should be the employees responsibility. You owners pay us to do a job, as with 
any job the things you provide cost you real money, youre not paying us to 
spend that money needlessly, when we waste your money we are accountable for 
the consequences, either financial or job applications. Not holding us 
accountable creates a dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 
300 dollar ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k 
radio?


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the 
creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not our 
brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the ladder 
on his own, just the way we were raised.

You break it, you bought it.


- Original Message -
From: Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your blood.  
Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of the 
truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�





--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reas

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Cameron Crum via Af]

Maybe, but of course this was between 11 and 5 years ago.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af 
wrote:

>
>
>  Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet.  Your installers
> were quite likely employees, not contractors.  J
>
>
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099, etc.)
> and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list.  You’re quite likely betting
> your company’s future existence on it.  Some rolls of the dice come out
> o.k., as with Cameron’s situation.  Many times they don’t.  If you get a
> claim, you could lose your WISP.  Wage and hour mistakes are that serious.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum via
> Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
>
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them bring
> their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them. Then, while
> changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt cordless drill on
> top of the chimney.  I asked the owner if it was his, and he said no. I
> asked my installer the next day. Turns out he left it there almost a year
> earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong full
> day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my employer to
> fire me.
>
>
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower but
> never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but the boss
> wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of overtime to offset
> the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
>
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and deduct
> it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the shelf in the
> van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I should have been
> fired at this point, three substantial items in under 5 years.
>
>
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen again,
> I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store and bough a
> ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
>
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, zip
> ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a pretty
> valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners pay us to
> do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you real money, youre
> not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when we waste your money we
> are accountable for the consequences, either financial or job applications.
> Not holding us accountable creates a dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You
> let us slide on a 300 dollar ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500
> dollar trencher or 5k radio?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:
>
> Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the
> creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not
> our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af  wrote:
>
> I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the
> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>
> You break it, you bought it.
>
>
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
>
>
> He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your
> blood.  Sh!t happens
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
>
>  Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible
> for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>
> On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
>
>  How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>
> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of
> the truck, no where to be found.
>
> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
> everyone else handles this.
>
> I've never run into it yet.
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> All parts should go together witho

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet.  Your installers were 
quite likely employees, not contractors.  ☺

Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re paying on 
a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099, etc.) and NOT as an 
employee, hit me up off list.  You’re quite likely betting your company’s 
future existence on it.  Some rolls of the dice come out o.k., as with 
Cameron’s situation.  Many times they don’t.  If you get a claim, you could 
lose your WISP.  Wage and hour mistakes are that serious.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment


When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them bring their 
own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them. Then, while changing a 
radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt cordless drill on top of the 
chimney.  I asked the owner if it was his, and he said no. I asked my installer 
the next day. Turns out he left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong full day 
install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my employer to fire me.

I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower but never 
disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but the boss wrote it 
off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of overtime to offset the cost. I 
was not happy I wasnt held accountable.

I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and deduct it 
from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the shelf in the van 
where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I should have been fired at 
this point, three substantial items in under 5 years.

I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen again, I 
didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store and bough a 
ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.

There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, zip ties, 
etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a pretty valid reason 
should be the employees responsibility. You owners pay us to do a job, as with 
any job the things you provide cost you real money, youre not paying us to 
spend that money needlessly, when we waste your money we are accountable for 
the consequences, either financial or job applications. Not holding us 
accountable creates a dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 
300 dollar ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k 
radio?


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the 
creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not our 
brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the ladder 
on his own, just the way we were raised.

You break it, you bought it.


- Original Message -
From: Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your blood.  
Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of the 
truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�





--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925
Doug Hass
Associate
312.786.6502

Franczek Radelet P.C.
Celebrating 20 Years | 1994-2014

300 South Wacker Drive
Suite 3400
Chicago, IL 60606
312.986.0300 - Main
312.986.9192 - Fax
www.franczek.com

Circular 230 Disclosure: Under requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue 
Service, we inform you that, unless specifically stated otherwise, any federal 
tax

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

As I said, the FLSA doesn’t help you here.  Travis’s solution is a good one to 
explore with your attorney to accomplish the same objective.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the 
creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not our 
brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the ladder 
on his own, just the way we were raised.

You break it, you bought it.


- Original Message -
From: Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your blood.  
Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of the 
truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�
Doug Hass
Associate
312.786.6502

Franczek Radelet P.C.
Celebrating 20 Years | 1994-2014

300 South Wacker Drive
Suite 3400
Chicago, IL 60606
312.986.0300 - Main
312.986.9192 - Fax
www.franczek.com

Circular 230 Disclosure: Under requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue 
Service, we inform you that, unless specifically stated otherwise, any federal 
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purposes of (i) 
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing 
or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter herein. 

For more information about Franczek Radelet P.C., please visit franczek.com. 
The information contained in this e-mail message or any attachment may be 
confidential and/or privileged, and is intended only for the use of the named 
recipient. If you are not the named recipient of this message, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or 
any attachment thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. 

Franczek Radelet is committed to sustainability - please consider the 
environment before printing this email 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

Intentional damage does present a different issue.  It's still not a 
payroll/compensation issue, but you have more ability to recover damages caused 
by intentional actions like these.

Doug


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Heith Petersen via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I assume for intentional damage it would be different. My head tower guy got 
pissed off at his old dell computer 2 weeks ago due to a common Ethernet issue 
and proceeded to punch the hell out of it due to his frustrations. I told him 
we had to find better ways to handle the emotions. I did have a new laptop 
sitting for him down town. I was mostly upset because I was wanting to take it 
to the rifle range after he picked up the new laptop, he didn't leave me much 
to shoot

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Ah-ha: Found this

"Federal law. Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a deduction 
for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met:

The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the start of 
employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) by which he or 
she agrees to such a deduction; and
The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the minimum wage.

The second criterion clearly applies to nonexempt employees. Employees who meet 
the dual duties and salary tests are exempt from minimum wage and overtime 
laws. For exempt employees, this type of wage deduction is not allowed."

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:52 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our employees 
received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups they did per 
month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for any missing tools, 
damage to vehicles, etc.

Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost instantly. :)

Travis
On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of the 
truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�
Doug Hass
Associate
312.786.6502

Franczek Radelet P.C.
Celebrating 20 Years | 1994-2014

300 South Wacker Drive
Suite 3400
Chicago, IL 60606
312.986.0300 - Main
312.986.9192 - Fax
www.franczek.com

Circular 230 Disclosure: Under requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue 
Service, we inform you that, unless specifically stated otherwise, any federal 
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purposes of (i) 
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing 
or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter herein. 

For more information about Franczek Radelet P.C., please visit franczek.com. 
The information contained in this e-mail message or any attachment may be 
confidential and/or privileged, and is intended only for the use of the named 
recipient. If you are not the named recipient of this message, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or 
any attachment thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. 

Franczek Radelet is committed to sustainability - please consider the 
environment before printing this email 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Hass, Douglas A. via Af]

Josh,

This is true, as far as it goes, but courts have imposed some restrictions on 
the written agreement (such as voluntariness), so the analysis isn't quite as 
simple as the text suggests.  Sorry-this one is not an ah-ha moment.  In 
addition, a majority of states have their own laws on deductions like this.  
Even deductions that are lawful under federal law might STILL violate state 
laws.

We discussed this scenario at WISPAPALOOZA during our HR sessions.  Keep 
compensation and discipline in separate buckets.  You pay your employees for 
the hours they work, period.  If they lose or damage something through 
negligence, that's a disciplinary issue, not a compensation issue.  If your 
employee intentionally damages equipment or steals it, you have a criminal and 
civil case to pursue.  It's still not a compensation question.

Before you deduct the cost of ANYTHING from your employee's paycheck, talk to 
me (or another qualified employment counsel) about the issue FIRST.

Travis's approach is a great way to address this issue while lessening the risk 
of federal or state law violations.

Doug


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Ah-ha: Found this

"Federal law. Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a deduction 
for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met:

The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the start of 
employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) by which he or 
she agrees to such a deduction; and
The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the minimum wage.

The second criterion clearly applies to nonexempt employees. Employees who meet 
the dual duties and salary tests are exempt from minimum wage and overtime 
laws. For exempt employees, this type of wage deduction is not allowed."

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:52 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our employees 
received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups they did per 
month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for any missing tools, 
damage to vehicles, etc.

Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost instantly. :)

Travis
On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of the 
truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�
Doug Hass
Associate
312.786.6502

Franczek Radelet P.C.
Celebrating 20 Years | 1994-2014

300 South Wacker Drive
Suite 3400
Chicago, IL 60606
312.986.0300 - Main
312.986.9192 - Fax
www.franczek.com

Circular 230 Disclosure: Under requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue 
Service, we inform you that, unless specifically stated otherwise, any federal 
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purposes of (i) 
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing 
or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter herein. 

For more information about Franczek Radelet P.C., please visit franczek.com. 
The information contained in this e-mail message or any attachment may be 
confidential and/or privileged, and is intended only for the use of the named 
recipient. If you are not the named recipient of this message, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or 
any attachment thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. 

Franczek Radelet is committed to sustainability - please consider the 
environment before printing this email 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

I wish corporations and government had even a quarter of the level of 
accountability you say you have.


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/23/2014 07:14 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong 
full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my 
employer to fire me.


I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower 
but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but 
the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of 
overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.


I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and 
deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the 
shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I 
should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under 
5 years.


I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen 
again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store 
and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.


There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, 
zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a 
pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners 
pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you 
real money, youre not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when 
we waste your money we are accountable for the consequences, either 
financial or job applications. Not holding us accountable creates a 
dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You let us slide on a 300 dollar 
ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500 dollar trencher or 5k radio?



On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter
and the creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those
employees who are not our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay
for the ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.

You break it, you bought it.

- Original Message -
*From:* Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af
<mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

He said it was his brother right ? Who cares!  Your
brother is your blood. Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial
responsible for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or
loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder
and it fell out of the truck, no where to be found.

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back,
just curious how everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.
�







--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Cameron Crum via Af]

When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them bring
their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them. Then, while
changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt cordless drill on
top of the chimney.  I asked the owner if it was his, and he said no. I
asked my installer the next day. Turns out he left it there almost a year
earlier. Go figure.
On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong full
> day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my employer to
> fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower but
> never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but the boss
> wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of overtime to offset
> the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and deduct
> it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the shelf in the
> van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I should have been
> fired at this point, three substantial items in under 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen again,
> I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store and bough a
> ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, zip
> ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a pretty
> valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners pay us to
> do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you real money, youre
> not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when we waste your money we
> are accountable for the consequences, either financial or job applications.
> Not holding us accountable creates a dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You
> let us slide on a 300 dollar ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500
> dollar trencher or 5k radio?
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:
>
>> Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the
>> creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not
>> our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the
>>> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>>>
>>> You break it, you bought it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>>>
>>> He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your
>>> blood.  Sh!t happens
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible
>>> for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
>>>
>>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>>> On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
>>>
>>> How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>>>
>>> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out
>>> of the truck, no where to be found.
>>>
>>> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
>>> everyone else handles this.
>>>
>>> I've never run into it yet.
>>> �
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[That One Guy via Af]

I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong full
day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my employer to
fire me.

I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower but
never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but the boss
wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of overtime to offset
the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.

I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and deduct
it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the shelf in the
van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I should have been
fired at this point, three substantial items in under 5 years.

I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen again, I
didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store and bough a
ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.

There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits, zip
ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a pretty
valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners pay us to
do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you real money, youre
not paying us to spend that money needlessly, when we waste your money we
are accountable for the consequences, either financial or job applications.
Not holding us accountable creates a dangerous dynamic in a workplace. You
let us slide on a 300 dollar ladder, how careful will we be with a 2500
dollar trencher or 5k radio?


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

> Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the
> creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not
> our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af  wrote:
>
>>  I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the
>> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>>
>> You break it, you bought it.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>>
>> He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your
>> blood.  Sh!t happens
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
>>
>>  Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible
>> for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
>>
>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>> On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
>>
>> How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>>
>> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out
>> of the truck, no where to be found.
>>
>> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
>> everyone else handles this.
>>
>> I've never run into it yet.
>> �
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Jeremy via Af]

Well I extremely appreciate the specific FLSA laws on this matter and the
creative ways of dealing with the solution (for those employees who are not
our brothers).  Thanks Josh and Travis.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af  wrote:

>  I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the
> ladder on his own, just the way we were raised.
>
> You break it, you bought it.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your
> blood.  Sh!t happens
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
>
>  Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible
> for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
> On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
>
> How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>
> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of
> the truck, no where to be found.
>
> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
> everyone else handles this.
>
> I've never run into it yet.
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Glen Waldrop via Af]

I'm not going to screw him over or anything. He offered to pay for the ladder 
on his own, just the way we were raised.

You break it, you bought it.



  - Original Message - 
  From: Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment


  He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your blood.  
Sh!t happens

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:


Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

  How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

  This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out 
of the truck, no where to be found. 

  He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
everyone else handles this.

  I've never run into it yet.
  �

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm. Inc via Af]

He said it was his brother right ?  Who cares!  Your brother is your blood.  
Sh!t happens

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
> 
> Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for 
> broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
> 
>> On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:
>> How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>> 
>> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of 
>> the truck, no where to be found. 
>> 
>> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how 
>> everyone else handles this.
>> 
>> I've never run into it yet.
>> �
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Heith Petersen via Af]

I assume for intentional damage it would be different. My head tower guy got
pissed off at his old dell computer 2 weeks ago due to a common Ethernet
issue and proceeded to punch the hell out of it due to his frustrations. I
told him we had to find better ways to handle the emotions. I did have a new
laptop sitting for him down town. I was mostly upset because I was wanting
to take it to the rifle range after he picked up the new laptop, he didn’t
leave me much to shoot

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

 

Ah-ha: Found this

"Federal law. Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a deduction
for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met:

The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the start
of employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) by which
he or she agrees to such a deduction; and
The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the minimum
wage.

The second criterion clearly applies to nonexempt employees. Employees who
meet the dual duties and salary tests are exempt from minimum wage and
overtime laws. For exempt employees, this type of wage deduction is not
allowed."

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 10/23/2014 04:52 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:

This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our employees
received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups they did per
month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for any missing tools,
damage to vehicles, etc.

Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost instantly. :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:

Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible for
broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of
the truck, no where to be found. 

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.

�

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

Ah-ha: Found this

"/Federal law. Under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), a 
deduction for loss or damage may be made if two conditions are met://

//
//The employee signed a written agreement prior to the shortage (at the 
start of employment or when the policy related to deductions is adopted) 
by which he or she agrees to such a deduction; and//
//The deduction does not bring the employee's hourly rate below the 
minimum wage.


The second criterion clearly applies to nonexempt employees. 
Employees who meet the dual duties and salary tests are exempt from 
minimum wage and overtime laws. For exempt employees, this type of wage 
deduction is not allowed./"


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/23/2014 04:52 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our 
employees received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups 
they did per month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for 
any missing tools, damage to vehicles, etc.


Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost 
instantly. :)


Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible 
for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell 
out of the truck, no where to be found.


He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious 
how everyone else handles this.


I've never run into it yet.
�

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Heith Petersen via Af]

Tough deal. I guess it's part of the territory. I have guys that damage
radios at times bouncing against towers, they should have tied it off
better. Fortunately most of its UBNT gear so no big loss. But I guess if
they don't get punished there may not be much incentive to curve reckless
behavior. I guess it's the same if a guy drills thru a piece of Romex in a
wall or ladder takes out a customers window when not tied down properly, we
just pay the bill. I think of all the damage I did while working in the
field, I think the company is saving money keeping me in the office.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Glen Waldrop via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

 

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of
the truck, no where to be found. 

He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
everyone else handles this.

I've never run into it yet.

 

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Travis Johnson via Af]

This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our employees 
received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups they did per 
month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for any missing 
tools, damage to vehicles, etc.


Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost instantly. :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible 
for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell 
out of the truck, no where to be found.


He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious 
how everyone else handles this.


I've never run into it yet.
�

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible 
for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell 
out of the truck, no where to be found.


He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious 
how everyone else handles this.


I've never run into it yet.

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Jaime Solorza via Af]

Thats no big if..
It happens. I fired 3 employees when they pawned Hilti hammer drills ,
mobile two way radio and tools to pay for trim and cocaine.   Closed
business six months later after fulfilling contracts.  Long time ago

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 23, 2014 6:22 PM, "Glen Waldrop via Af"  wrote:

>  How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?
>
> This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell out of
> the truck, no where to be found.
>
> He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious how
> everyone else handles this.
>
> I've never run into it yet.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af]

Your brother? Slap him around a little bit?

On 10/23/2014 7:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell 
out of the truck, no where to be found.


He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious 
how everyone else handles this.


I've never run into it yet.